WSF--Survey?

PleaseDear

PleaseDear

Long Time Member
Messages
10,448
Well, I just finished my WSF Survey.

Why on earth did WSF add Full Curl Society to the survey?

I can see GSC being on the survey..

BUT~~~~~

How come add yet another pathetic Don Peay (Charity Paycheck) $cam org. to the list of options thru out the Survey?

I personally feel we/WSF should distance and for sure neutralize WSF from a silent breath connection to ANY of Don Peay's Charity Paycheck Org.'s.

What am I missing here?


Robb
 
Robb,
I didn't get a Survey, although I assume I am still a member through my UFNAWS membership. So I don't know what they were asking about as far as Full Curl is concerned.
I am also a member of Full Curl and feel it is the best shot I have of ever getting a Stone Sheep hunt since I will never be able to pay for a hunt like that myself.
While Don is in the middle of Full Curl I don't believe it is a "$cam (Charity Paycheck). Several people with money to spare (Karl Malone, the Binghams, and Mowers, etc.) have donated big bucks to foot the bill for guys like you and me to have a chance at hunting sheep.
Don's claim, and I believe him, is that he started this organization so common guys could go on big time sheep hunts. So far his goal has been accomplished. There is nothing in FCS for Don other than seeing others get to hunt sheep.
Since FCS's beginning two years ago, 18 or so people have been able to go on high priced sheep hunts via Full Curl. If that is a $cam, then I am glad to be a part.
You and I see eye to eye on many things and no doubt you believe that I am looking through Rose Colored glasses on this one.
As I said, I don't know what the survey was asking, but in my mind Full Curl is a great opportunity for common guys to hunt sheep. I guess that is what WSF is thinking as well.
JMO,
Rick
 
Rick,

I agree with you 100 percent on The Full Curl Society. It has been nothing but positive. I am more then willing to donate my $100 a year just to see someone else have the opportunities that I have had to hunt sheep. It was the generosity of others that gave me the chance to obtain the full curl, and now it's time for me to give back. For those of you that dont know, those that have reached the full curl status are asked to join for $100 and the only thing they get in return is the chance to attend the annual meeting where fellow hunters that have taken less then 4 sheep get their name in the hat for a chance to draw a tag. I am certain that the money raised by membership fees does not pay for all of the hunts given away. The big dollar donors make it possible. If they are like you and I, their reward is seeing the joy on the lucky winners faces. Rick, I hope to hear your name next year.

Paul
 
That is true Rick.

Out of all the topics a guy goes thru in/on any given day this is one we see differently.

I see this as just a smaller/local version of GSC.

Read post 2 and post 3....

Exactly what is said about GSC and I certainly have not much respect for them.

No, I do not think you are seeing thru rosey glasses nor do I think I am seeing with blinders.

Compromise = you win yet another sheep hunt and I will be happy for You!

Fair enough

Robb
 
I guess I am a bit more skeptical of Full Curl Society. Undoubedly some people contribute and donate with no chance of any real return, other than maybe influence with Don, etc. But it seems a lot like a scam. At $100 a pop, there is plenty of money to fund winner's hunts. Where does the rest of the money go? Are we to believe that there is no extra money? Not a very transparent arrangement, and with SFW involvement I remain skeptical.
Bill
 
I would happily take that compromise Robb! And I would be equally as happy if you were to participate and win a sheep hunt, as well!
Bill,
This year at the event, I watched 10 guys win over $200,000 worth of sheep hunts. That is out of maybe 500 people who attended. To be a part of this year's Full Curl event, and get your tickets, you had to pay $70 or $80. Out of that group there were also a couple of dozen or so people like Sheepfever (people who have already got their full curl) who put up $100 without any hope of drawing another sheep permit at the event. That means at best their door receipts were around $40,000...minus the cost of the convention room, etc. If you do the math, somebody is losing money, to the tune of at least $150K. Somehow that doesn't leave anything to pocket for anybody.

The night I won my Dall sheep hunt at UFNAWS Don told me about how he loves seeing common guys, such as myself, win sheep hunts. He told me about his idea of FCS, also said that instead of pursuing more sheep hunts for himself, he wanted to spend his energy and money on helping other hunters experience what he has had the opportunity to experience. He was genuinely thrilled for me, and even worked out a reduced price opportunity for me to take my son on my hunt with me. (Frankly I think Don put up some of the money himself) For that, I will be forever grateful to Don for helping me experience a hunt I had previously only dreamed about.

Plenty of people on this sight think Don is the devil. I will never be one of them, and perhaps after the above lengthy explanation, you can understand why.
 
If Full Curl is a net zero event then is pure gambling no different than the lottery, correct? Several players buy a ticket and a few win. That is gambling by definition.

If instead is a surplus of money left over then welcome to SFW 2.0.

I avoid Grand Slam after their bad behavior and also want nothing to do with an organization like Full Curl that has the stink on SFW on it. SFW is a train wreck in motion.

Drug lord from Jamaica just got jailed by Feds. Lots of his supporters are screaming that things were so much better when he ruled over their domain. A little good does not erase the harm of other actions.
 
I'm not surprised someone who has drawn a tag is supportive. I don't think Don P is the devil, either, but I do think he has strayed from his original purpose and his recent comments about issuing tags to the general public being "socialism" is incomprehisible and reprehensible. I remain skeptical about FCS. I don't think you can get the full picture of a groups' finances by attending one event. Perhaps this really is nothing but a charity for average hunters, but I would like to see more supporting evidence before jumping on board.

At one point I supported SFW, before I learned more about them. I may one day support FCS, but with many of the same people involved, this time I will do more thorough homework first.
Bill
 
To me Full Curl Society seems an obvious reaction to the the Wild Sheep Foundation (formerly National FNAWS) getting their butt kicked in court by the Grand Slam Club. Thats what happens when two megalomaniacs namely Don Peay and Dennis Campbell are pitted against one another.
As I understand the dispute Don Lost and Dennis won. Problem being all Sheep Hunters lost as well and have seemingly forever been split into 2 camps by these 2 guys. Most of my Sheep Hunting friends either support Grand Slam Ovis or WSF. I for one refuse to choose sides and be manipulated by the ongoing dispute. But I will say knowing both Don Peay and Dennis Campbell. I would sooner trust Dennis with my money.
Dons track record to date is about like Barack Obamas. Hundreds of millions of tax and sportsmans dollars have been dumped into Utah wildlife and essentially wasted by the DWR with Little or nothing to show for it.
Full Curl Society is a puzzling organization. It is not a registry for the documentation of a "Full Curl" like The Grand Slam Club. To me it seems like a tax shelter. Do wealthy donors who intend to buy Sheep Hunts donate the money to FCS and then FCS gift them back a hunt? If so, that would be par for Don Peay.
In any case I fail to see the purpose or wisdom in people rounding up money for others to go Sheep Hunting. That is what makes sheep hunting special and different. Sheep Hunting is about overcoming barriers of all types in order to get your Ram.
 
On page 10 of the current WSF-Wild Sheep mag.

It lists 46 chapters and affiliates.

The only other equal to or great than is the RMEF.

Robb
 
It's pretty easy to make wild accusations and assumptions without fact. It's safer for you guys too. You guys can always fall back on the fact that it's just your opinion!

Go to an event, do a count, see where the money goes, find out who's donating. They're not the same ones who receive the hunts. ACTUALLY GET SOME FACTS! (there's novel idea for you)

It gets a little F&$)*&% tiring with all the "fashionable" attacks, especially coming from those who I thought were prone to better behavior!

Good F@ck guys!

Zeke
 
Zeke,

Help us with the "facts", please. I haven't found a lot on the net for FCS, so point me in the right direction. For all I know this is the most prim and proper group in existence, but I'm not just assuming that, I'd like to see the data. Close association with SFW means prudent people are excercising caution.
Bill
 
That's quite a jump from getting your own facts to expecting me to serve them up for you. I'm not the voice for Full Curl. Where are your facts to sustain the negativity toward FC? I can't find a single fact to dissuade me from thinking the org helps the average sheep hunter!

I suspect that those who are attacking the most have little association with FCS and near zero facts on which to base the attacks.

There's one thing I've learned over the years, people don't change their minds and this is probably one of those times. If you've decides that the org is rotten because Don in involved, then I can't change your mind with an internet post.

If you all feel your interests are best served by stirring the pot with conjecture and innuendo, then so be it. I just expect better behavior from a few folks (and from me for my pathetic reaction and over the top expressions).

See, don't we all feel better? Has anyone's mind been changed?

Zeke
 
here is one fact for you Zeke. I in fact know a guy who won a sheep hunt in a drawing after being given a pile of raffle tickets for free. Free gifted tickets in the barrel right along side other tickets that were bought honestly with hard earned money under a fully disclosed pricing structure. Thats a fact and it is as dishonest as it gets.
Those currently involved in SFW, FCS, and UFNAWS have been so corrupt for so long they dont even think they are dishonest or corrupt. Thats an opinion.
 
Well I heard........ uh huh.
Seems like it's hardly a fact unless we have a few more details.
Are you talking FC or FNAWS?

I'm assuming you'll be absent at the FC socials since you have this "fact".

I've been around long enough that I've learned to take every rumor with a grain of salt. I've heard rumors about lots of people but I also realize that there are two sides to every story and hold judgement.

Here's where I stand: I'll continue to pay my $100 because I derive so much pleasure from seeing the excitement on the faces of those who win hunts, even though I cannot ever win.

Here's another fact: most attendees only pay $40 since they are not Full Curl holders. Their price of admission won't cover very many sheep hunts so we have a few high-rollers to thank also!

From what I see it's really sheep hunters helping sheep hunters. I know, I know, they might get to write it off their taxes too. LMAO!

Thanks to all for the civil discussion even though I showed none in one of my posts!

Zeke
 
Bry,
FCS buys the hunts with the donated money, then gives them away.
As I said before. The door receipts at the events I have attended, might buy maybe two of the hunts. The balance is paid for by generous donors. (And a few generous people who have already earned a FC like Zeke and Sheepfever).
I am not real sure how that can be anything more than a good deal for those who participate.
 
zeke---littlebighorn,

With all due respect...

I have not seen one single FACT in any of your posts????

It is simply the normal SFW/FC/UFNAWS/SFH---I am sure I prolly forgot a few more of Your Boy's Charity Paycheck org.'s....

Apologist response.....our family members have WON something for FREE it has to be a god-send....

I sure as hell didn't plan on posting up all the freaking Public Record Tax returns of these Con Org.'s....'Charity Paycheck's be damned'!

Simply because they have been posted so very much----some folks just can't believe what is in front of their eyes in BLACK and WHITE...numbers.

Look---I got no problem with Loyalty---none at all--- as it is a virtue that is seemingly faltering in society.

I certainly respect you both for that Loyalty.

The very last 'merger' I ever want to see is WSF getting scammed and damned for sure with any association with this local wanna-be--GSCO---look a like.

Robb
 
Zeke,
I've scoured the FCS web site and talked with people each year at the Expo. Not a lot adds up. Like Robb, I remain skeptical. Certainly there are some people (maybe even you) who simply donate to help others. Kudos!
But there is no factual information on purchasing these hunts from outfitters, the numbers of members or tickets in the barrel, or the dollars spent on conservation projects (one of the stated goals of the org.)
It reminds me of the hunt giveaways at the Huntin'fool. No disclosure, but pay your fee and maybe you will win something. A list of winners always claim it was a great deal (for them). But is it a for profit lottery, a lottery where the proceeds go to conservation, or ?? Lack of transparency makes this a hard group to support.
Respected groups like FNAWS, RMEF and even MDF disclose this type of information and whether you like their policies or not, they are open and above board.
Bill
 
Skeptical? like Robb? LOL. Have you read his posts?
With all due respect, I really like Robb but I would NOT classify him as skeptical!

Like I said, I'm not the spokesman for FCS...just a lowly member who has nothing to gain from FC by being a paying member.
I understand your concern about transparency. I don't have the answers for you either.

I do know the look on people's faces when they win something like a Stone sheep hunt! At 1000 attendees, at $40 a pop it would barely cover 1 hunt if there were no big donors. I've seen the big donor checks which were written to the org for the purpose of helping other guys realize a dream. Every average Joe can attend if they want. It's open to all and it's only $40 per year.... unless you've killed all 4 NA wild sheep.

Zeke
 
Hey I have been very honest and up front---

I have ONE Topic that I struggle with to be passive when posting..'cause I have spent way to much time researching black and white numbers.....look at my 2003 forward post about 'that' Topic...(and here we are again)

And ~~~~~~

1 person that I get 'iffy' about on all his DumbA** Help me- help me, I got NO clue threads.....he has a few here lately....

"Run Forest Run"!

______________________________________________________________

I am off to Wyoming ...scouting trip ----

Everyone have a Great and Safe Fathers Day......

Talk at ya Monday,

Robb
 
>Bry,
>FCS buys the hunts with the
>donated money, then gives them
>away.
>As I said before. The
>door receipts at the events
>I have attended, might buy
>maybe two of the hunts.
> The balance is paid
>for by generous donors. (And
>a few generous people who
>have already earned a FC
>like Zeke and Sheepfever).
>I am not real sure how
>that can be anything more
>than a good deal for
>those who participate.

I just looked at FCS website. I didn't realize that winners had to pay a fee for winning the hunt. Based on the numbers I see, the winners are paying between 25% to 40% of the cost of the hunt. Typically, outfitters can be negotiated down to 50% of the asking price for donated hunts to conservation organizations. They will sometimes donate a hunt at 100%. The quick math in my head tells me that between the entry price, winner fee and the reduce price from outfitters are covering the hunt costs. The generous donors are icing on the cake.
 
Zeke, I dont disagree with you. It is a great deal. My buddy who now only needs a stone to curl up Asked how he could do it on the cheap. I told him threw FC. That or a cancellation hunt is the only ticket to a cheap stone.
That being said Full Curl is little more than a reaction by Don Peay to loosing some of his control or trying to gain more control of sheep hunting and the sheep hunting community. Don loves to control everything and everybody.
You will also always see me at the socials. But to me thats all they are anymore. Socials. A time to see old friends and sheep hunting buddies I may not have seen in a while. I wisely quit donating to and funding UFNAWS, SFW long ago. I used to donate a rifle every year. I used to buy a corporate table every year. But when I recognized that these once great grassroots organizations had morphed into private fundraising for UDWR and that mine and everyone elses money was being spent with all the prudence of tax dollars (with even less accountability than tax dollars) I quit. UFNAWS did not fund 1 single sheep related project last year.
Oh I take that back. They funded another salary for one of their buddys as a sheep biologist (Although he has no more authority or jurisdiction to be a sheep bioligist than you or I because he does not work for the state). Oh, and they funded a study. To find out what was killing all our sheep in Utah (despite hunters and outfitters having reported watching lions snack on sheep for 10 years in the units in question)
UFNAWS mainly funds bear studys. They pumped tons of money into about the thousanth bear study. I question if there is even a bear left in Utah that hasnt had a thermometer up his a$$.
Point is Sheep numbers are plummeting in Utah (all trophy quality is)while funding for wildlife is by far at an all time high.SFW, UFNAWS slush funds for DWR. For lazy derelicts whos budget is already twice that of Nevadas Department of Wildlife.
 

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