WY adopting Idaho model for Big 4? Must choose ONE species! TRW committee working group 5/14/24

[Crampy]

WY wants to force applicant to choose one trophy species now?

Does the Idaho Model (and Utah Resident model) of forcing applicant to choose just one species really mean "increased odds"? Sure, you get increased odds for your single target species (e.g., Ram), but those odds only go up by the same amount that your Moose and Mtn Goat odds went down, correct? So, doesn't the "Idaho Model" just allow you to concentrate your luck on one species, but doesn't really increase your odds overall?

Harvard grad, Cyrus Western tanked 100% BP-squared in the 2023 legislative session (which was the Task Force recommendation). Cyrus is the majority whip and that position carries power.

Now, instead of trusting the expertise of the TF, Cyrus is leading a working group within the TRW committee to instead look at Wyoming adopting the Idaho model (i.e., forcing applicant to choose only one species). Unclear whether he wants this only for moose & ram or for all of the Big 4. Committee is also going to consider promoting 100% BP-squared to full legislature, although they are concerned it will just fail again. To be continued at next meeting.

Director Nesvik pointed out that moose/ram applications (revenue?) down 37% in 2024 as folks seem to be realizing that the legislature failed to act to correct the NR problem in the 2023 session. Nesvik briefly alluded to the issue of no random NR ram tag in 2024. But I am not sure that anyone understood that it actually happened in 2024 when the super tag winner chose to hunt a ram. Nesvik mentioned this as only a "possibility", not something that actually happened in 2024 and is likely to happen every year going forward. Nesvik admitted that 100% BP-squared would likely be a revenue boost for WY GFD.

How much longer will silly NRs keep buying moose & ram points while the WY legislature ponders whether to fix this problem?

See 5/14/24 PM TRW committee meeting. Adopting Idaho model discussion at about 38:30.

Cartoon for attention. This infamous cartoon (of the black sheriff from "Blazing Saddles") is what Cyrus Western posted on Twitter the day a black Sheriff took the job in Albany, Wyoming in 2020. Cyrus might not understand draw odds, but he sure understands acceptable modern racial humor. Cyrus took down the cartoon and apologized.

And remember, Cyrus is the guy who took the 100% BP-squared bill in 2023 and made it more convoluted. At points >19, he wanted to increase BP-squared to BP-cubed. And then take BP-cubed and multiply it by a factor of 1.3-2.0. Maybe Cyrus should stick to cartoons and race relations. bit.ly/3reP3N5

 

[elks96]

What a **** show. They need to just quit and go back to random. This is a horrible idea that does not change anything.

Wipe the whole damn mess clean, and go 100% random!

 

[Bookhead]

What a **** show. They need to just quit and go back to random. This is a horrible idea that does not change anything.

Wipe the whole damn mess clean, and go 100% random!

No thanks I'd rather get to hunt them once In my life

 

[Iddogguy]

What a **** show. They need to just quit and go back to random. This is a horrible idea that does not change anything.

Wipe the whole damn mess clean, and go 100% random!

I’ve got 25 sheep points, your idea sucks the big one. Bend over we’ll use the stick on you!!!

 

[Mackey]

I happen to love the >19 idea. Sitting here on 20, this fits me perfectly…..

Mackey

 

[hossblur]

No thanks I'd rather get to hunt them once In my life

As a Utah R sitting on 23 moose points for a unit that has 8 tags and 220ish point holders above me, my odds are roughly the same as random.

It's astonishing to see Wyoming look at Utah and think "hey, we need some of that"

 

[Iowan]

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/media/30105/download?inline

Am I reading this correctly that Wyoming currently has one random non-resident moose tag? Just make it 0 already and put these people out of their misery.

 

[LIK2HNT]

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/media/30105/download?inline

Am I reading this correctly that Wyoming currently has one random non-resident moose tag? Just make it 0 already and put these people out of their misery.

Why??
People put in for raffles with practically zero chance of getting the tag. No difference. Consider this your donation to wildlife with a chance of a moose hunt, or do not apply. Don’t get me wrong, I wish there were more tags available but there is not.

 

[elks96]

I’ve got 25 sheep points, your idea sucks the big one. Bend over we’ll use the stick on you!!!

No thanks I'd rather get to hunt them once In my life

Haha. There is absolutely no guarantee with points you will get to hunt them. Right now a 12 year old that is starting to buy points will not be eligible for tag until they are in their 60s. Assuming the point creep and tag allocation remain similar.

But yes keep believing that buying a point is somehow going to get you a tag. The only people that points help are those in the first rounds and those who put live everyone else. In their point pool.

It is a horrible system of entitlement. As a public resource owned by the state, why should anyone in the state have a better chance at a tag than anyone else? Why is it ok for Bison and Goat to be completely random? Seldom do you hear about anyone wanting to fix the goat and bison draw. But it is a constant discussion about hour points are horrible and we need to fix the system.

 

[elks96]

Do we know who is on this little sub committee?

 

[Bookhead]

Haha. There is absolutely no guarantee with points you will get to hunt them. Right now a 12 year old that is starting to buy points will not be eligible for tag until they are in their 60s. Assuming the point creep and tag allocation remain similar.

But yes keep believing that buying a point is somehow going to get you a tag. The only people that points help are those in the first rounds and those who put live everyone else. In their point pool.

It is a horrible system of entitlement. As a public resource owned by the state, why should anyone in the state have a better chance at a tag than anyone else? Why is it ok for Bison and Goat to be completely random? Seldom do you hear about anyone wanting to fix the goat and bison draw. But it is a constant discussion about hour points are horrible and we need to fix the system.

Not a system of entitlement. That's just how some people act. It's a system of preference given to those in the game the longest. I have allot better odds of my points getting me a tag then my luck I can tell you that much. And there is still random tags for people that don't have the points to draw in the preference round. Nothing wrong with the system for residents

 

[LIK2HNT]

For all those that feel random is the only fair method. It would ONLY truly be fair if ALL tags are OIL per species. Then undrawn tags can go into a second draw for everyone, or FCFS. How’s that.

 

[jm77]

Haha. There is absolutely no guarantee with points you will get to hunt them. Right now a 12 year old that is starting to buy points will not be eligible for tag until they are in their 60s. Assuming the point creep and tag allocation remain similar.

But yes keep believing that buying a point is somehow going to get you a tag. The only people that points help are those in the first rounds and those who put live everyone else. In their point pool.

It is a horrible system of entitlement. As a public resource owned by the state, why should anyone in the state have a better chance at a tag than anyone else? Why is it ok for Bison and Goat to be completely random? Seldom do you hear about anyone wanting to fix the goat and bison draw. But it is a constant discussion about hour points are horrible and we need to fix the system.

I'm not going to get into an argument about points, but have you ever noticed how many people drop out after year 1? Or have you noticed how many people are out by year 10? Attrition plays a huge part in a point system.

What we need is 50/50 PP/random for all species. IMO

 

[Steve Oz]

What we need is 50/50 PP/random for all species. IMO

This is the best outcome for all involved. Old guys still have a chance and get a slight benefit for all those $2000 loans and $150 donations to WYGF, new guys have a chance from day one and to build equity, and WYGF still gets everyone to apply and infuse all that cash.

 

[elks96]

Not a system of entitlement. That's just how some people act. It's a system of preference given to those in the game the longest. I have allot better odds of my points getting me a tag then my luck I can tell you that much. And there is still random tags for people that don't have the points to draw in the preference round. Nothing wrong with the system for residents

Sure it is a system of entitlement. Right now you have better odds only because you are at the top of the point pool. What would happen if this was your first year to get a point? What does you odds look like? Sorry but our kids right now who are entering the system will be waiting 3
25 years plus to pull a cow moose tag. For a type 1 tag it will be a matter who lives the longest.

There are several high point people every year who die or become disabled before ever getting a tag. Heck tomorrow you might be one. Then what does you 25+ points get you?

 

[BuzzH]

Sure it is a system of entitlement. Right now you have better odds only because you are at the top of the point pool. What would happen if this was your first year to get a point? What does you odds look like? Sorry but our kids right now who are entering the system will be waiting 3
25 years plus to pull a cow moose tag. For a type 1 tag it will be a matter who lives the longest.

There are several high point people every year who die or become disabled before ever getting a tag. Heck tomorrow you might be one. Then what does you 25+ points get you?

So you're saying there isn't a random part of the draw?

How did I draw a bull moose permit with 1 point?

Oh, and regarding your kids:

 

[Bookhead]

Sure it is a system of entitlement. Right now you have better odds only because you are at the top of the point pool. What would happen if this was your first year to get a point? What does you odds look like? Sorry but our kids right now who are entering the system will be waiting 3
25 years plus to pull a cow moose tag. For a type 1 tag it will be a matter who lives the longest.

There are several high point people every year who die or become disabled before ever getting a tag. Heck tomorrow you might be one. Then what does you 25+ points get you?

I'm not at the top I'm in the middle with a ways to go and I know I still have better odds of getting a tag at some point in the future then I ever will in random. I'm not going to try for the very best units I'll hunt a regular unit and try my best to kill the best animal in it

 

[hossblur]

Points systems are created by grey hairs to benefit grey hairs

 

[nfh]

I'm not going to get into an argument about points, but have you ever noticed how many people drop out after year 1? Or have you noticed how many people are out by year 10? Attrition plays a huge part in a point system.

What we need is 50/50 PP/random for all species. IMO

Agree. This idea keeps both sides happy.

100 percent random is a horrible idea

 

[elks96]

So you're saying there isn't a random part of the draw?

How did I draw a bull moose permit with 1 point?

Oh, and regarding your kids:

Haha. Oh Buzz you never get a shot about anything but your own ego. And it is not about my kids but all kids and a broken ass system that never should have been created in the first place.

 

[Southpawshooter]

Sure it is a system of entitlement.

I bet you don't see social security as an entitlement after years of paying in.

 

[IDbullz]

Haha. There is absolutely no guarantee with points you will get to hunt them. Right now a 12 year old that is starting to buy points will not be eligible for tag until they are in their 60s. Assuming the point creep and tag allocation remain similar.

At least your kid will likely have a shot at a tag at age 60. If it were completely random then odds are they would never draw a random tag with 1 in 2000 odds. The funding these points generate help keep your resident hunting prices much lower. Want to pay $500 to go elk hunting as a resident?

 

[Bookhead]

I'm not going to get into an argument about points, but have you ever noticed how many people drop out after year 1? Or have you noticed how many people are out by year 10? Attrition plays a huge part in a point system.

What we need is 50/50 PP/random for all species. IMO

I would agree to a 50/50 type system if it used your points for any antlered tag not just first choice.

 

[wildfin]

There is not ever going to be a system that will make everybody happy, or enough tags. Soon as wyo. is finished jerking over none res.they will start in on there own. burning pts for any tag sounds good to me, with no choice to build point without applying. the problem is theirs no money in not selling pts.

 

[SDBugler]

the problem is theirs no money in not selling pts.

They can create any system they want to “print money”. Like charging $150 just to apply.

 

[Katoom]

They can create any system they want to “print money”. Like charging $150 just to apply.

So glad that we getting comfortable with a system where our game management agencies in numerous states are able to “print money.” I wish they could have the same confidence and ability to “print better habitat management” or “print more public access” or “print more animals on the mountain” but instead all this printed money will rain down while the actual (former) goals diminish year by year.

 

[Bookhead]

They can create any system they want to “print money”. Like charging $150 just to apply.

That's cheap idaho is almost 300$