WYO RESIDENTS ONLY WEIGH IN ON SF0085

[strang]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-13 AT 03:16PM (MST)[p]Since this is a resident issue lets see if we get a general concenceus or a split decision
Should they be averaged as non res points are?
Should a non res with 7 pts move here and his points transfer moving him to the top of the heap?
Should a applicant have to choose between p/p and random draw? Should p/p pt applicants drop to the random draw if unsucessful and get a second shot at their first choice?
Should all three choices be considered before a license is suspended or just first choice
What steps should be taken to insure against manipulation of the p/p system?
If we get enough responses I will print it and take it to Game and fish committee 44 on regulations

 

[Triple_BB]

>Should they be averaged as non
>res points are? No, go with the lowest points in the party.

>Should a non res with 7
>pts move here and his
>points transfer moving him to
>the top of the heap? Nope, if they don't like it, let'um burn their points before they claim residency.

>Should a applicant have to choose
>between p/p and random draw? Nope and I doubt the G&F would agree as this would go against the intent of the law.

>Should p/p pt applicants drop
>to the random draw if
>unsucessful and get a second
>shot at their first choice? Yep, just like moose and sheep. Again, what's the intent of the law.
>
>Should all three choices be considered
>before a license is suspended
>or just first choice. Just the first. Your three choices idea sucks!

>What steps should be taken to
>insure against manipulation of the
>p/p system? Go off the lowest points total in the group, end of issue...

 

[dwalton]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-13 AT 03:49PM (MST)[p]It should be left the same way it is for moose & sheep. Nobody is freaking out that nonresidents carry their points for these species over to resident points when they move to Wyo. I really don't see thousands of people changing residence status just to cash in on their points. The few residents with "nonresident" points will be out of the system very quickly. Wyoming would be the ONLY state that would zero out your point total when you change residence status.

How can you choose between the pp or random draw? If you don't have the points needed, your odds will be ZERO in the preference draw.

Leave the draw sequence as it is.

 

[juniper81]

A non-resident that moves to WY should ABSOLUTELY start at zero.
Non-residents already have better drawing odds than residents do. Thank you G&F!

I believe the standards for landowner tags should also be significantly raised.

BTW, MOOSE AND SHEEP tags should be changed to ONE harvest per lifetime!

 

[Teepee]

I agree with Triple BB on all counts with the exception that Non-residents moving to Wyo cannot transfer PP's that exceed the max number at the time for residents. If they move with 7 pp's and the max available for residents is 2, then they get 2. Or, conversely, even though they have resident status, let them apply as non-residents until they use their points.

I don't have a problem with sheep going to one per lifetime. Not sure about moose though, we have a few more of them. Guess sheep & moose weren't part of the "official Strang survey".

 

[Utah400Elk]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-13 AT 05:44PM (MST)[p]There are always loop holes. I am currently a resident and I have points. So where do I fit in? Should I loose my points even though I wouldn't be moving to Wyoming after this stupid point system was put in place? How is that fair? I paid for the points, so if they take them away should I get a refund? If not then if a resident moves away then moves back should they also start at zero? Do you want to penalize all the new residents or just the ones who will be ahead of you?

 

[TOPGUN]

"Do you want to penalize all the new residents or just the ones who will be ahead of you?"

Can I guess what the answer is?

 

[BuzzH]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-13 AT 07:11PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-13 AT 07:11?PM (MST)

First off, the dumb chits that pushed this point bill should have thought of all the problems that it would cause BEFORE they asked Senator Hicks to carry the legislation forward.

The bill hasnt even passed, and those pushing it, are already whining, crying, and flinging their suckers in the dirt that the system "isnt fair".

I believe that if a NR moves to Wyoming...their points should transfer.

They paid for the points, they should be able to use them, no question about it.

I also believe that points should be averaged between party applications, just like the NR system.

I think the split should have been 20% preference and 80% random.

I think that all applicants should be entered in the preference draw. In any point pool if a preference tag is drawn, that entire point pool is "out" of the random draw. In other words, only those that had a ZERO chance of drawing a preference tag should be entered in the random draw. Any applicant with max points should also not be entered in the random draw.

All points should go to ZERO if either a first or second choice is drawn.

I also believe we should do away with all landowner tags, that would increase everyones draw odds.

I say let people manipulate the preference point system all day fuggin' long...punish the asshats that put the cart squarely in front of the horse.

Let them reap what they sow...

 

[G14]

On a side note: I just wrote my Rep in the House, and told him to vote No on SF85. I will worry about "what if's" later.

 

[wisconsinfarmer]

Just do a random draw. I'll take my chances or buy leftover.

 

[feduptwo]

Points should be capped at whatever is currently available. If a nonresident moves to Wyoming with more points that is the current resident max he should be in the max point group but not ahead of residents. He should also not have to buy points until he has the same amount of points as the resident max group.

If there has to be a points system we should either use the lowest number in the group or use the mean average of the group. If one person in the group has less points that max it should drag the whole party down not up.

For once in my life I agree with Buzz. This point system has so many problems that it becomes more clear every day that it is a bad idea..
I'm a firm believer that we can make Wyoming's LE draw system more equitable without diving off the cliff. Lets step back one year come up with ideas that actually improve odds for everyone.

 

[PleaseDear]

You points follow you from non-ressy to ressy in every other state ---because---you bought those points and you own those points.

Robb

 

[piper]

This proposal should be about making the drawing for tags more equitable, so the nonresident point transfer thing is a problem.
It doesn't matter what other states do, every state has different circumstances to deal with.

I would vote for having a preference system that caps points at three, that would minimize the point transfer problem, would help the youth with opportunity and would help with the point creep that's going to happen because of the OTC deer and elk tags, as an example of that look at Colorado.

The other option would be to have a preference point system for antelope only, most any preference/ bonus point system would work great for that species because there are no OTC tags and most of the hunts are relatively easy to draw, thereby letting different people quickly filter through the system.

 

[dwalton]

For years MM has heard from Wyo residents saying "It's not fair", we need a point system because random draws "are not fair".

Now it looks like Wyoming will have a resident point system, and now these same people are saying, "It's not fair".

There are some people with non-resident points that might carry over? "That's not fair". (Even though there hasn't been a problem with non-residents carrying over their moose&sheep points).

People can manipulate the system with party applications? "That's not fair".

For the past 3 years people like Buzz H, have told you guys that nothing is more fair than a random draw.

This thread has proven all along that most of the proponents of these points systems have no interest in a "fair" draw. They simply want a high demand/trophy area tag because they have put in more years than most. They want that one last trophy area tag before they are done hunting.

The best one was from Piper - "This proposal should be about making the drawing for tags more equitable, so the nonresident point transfer thing is a problem." I'm betting you didn't have a problem when you took your resident mtn goat points, and used them to draw the first non-resident mtn goat tag issued in Nevada?

All of these proposals that everyone has listed will require additional man hours for the G&F to implement. Just a reminder - the only increased revenue bill passed this year for the G&F was the resident points bill.

 

[TOPGUN]

"The best one was from Piper - "This proposal should be about making the drawing for tags more equitable, so the nonresident point transfer thing is a problem." I'm betting you didn't have a problem when you took your resident mtn goat points, and used them to draw the first non-resident mtn goat tag issued in Nevada?"


***Why am I not surprised to read that scenario, LOL! Talk about two-faced!!! Then there's Triple_BB and his whining and attitude! I hope I'm still around in several years if they get their wish and this PP Bill goes into effect because I will be the first to say I told you so when they both come whining back here with a bunch of PPs and STILL haven't drawn that tag they want so badly with this "more fair system", LOL!!!

 

[Triple_BB]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-13 AT 11:03AM (MST)[p]Who's whining? The man asked for input to his questions. The only ones whining are Buzz and the same folks who've opposed pref points all along.

 

[TOPGUN]

You know exactly what I meant and it wasn't in reference to your post in this thread! Anyway, the Bill went down by a vote of 31-27 this AM, so it appears that the G&F is right where they were before all these Bills were drafted and there will have to be some major cuts in programs and/or a big outlay from the GF to keep them going since nothing else can be introduced in the Legislature this year.

 

[nontypical]

Mr Strang also asked for resident opinions only with this post.

Not that it matters anymore.Just sayin'....

 

[TOPGUN]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-13 AT 02:38PM (MST)[p]>Mr Strang also asked for resident
>opinions only with this post.
>
>
>Not that it matters anymore.Just sayin'....
>


How ya doing there stalker, LOL!!! In case you haven't noticed, the OP stated it was a residents only bill and not that it was only here for residents to speak. I also didn't make any comments on the bIll itself one way or the other and I see you didn't either. Nope, just the same old chit trying to cut somebody down! Also, you may want to look up through the thread because I wasn't the only NR to make a post---Just sayin, as you always say!!! PS: Maybe I moved out there since last week!!!

 

[piper]

I once drew 5 antelope tags in a row as a Wyoming resident, areas 57, 68, 74, 90.
I never have applied for very limited bull elk tags like 113, 123, 124.
I understand that its unfair for nonresidents to pay money for bonus points and then not get to use them when they become residents.

If nonresidents get a seven year jump by transferring points, its also unfair for long time residents to get their chances cut in half for many years in the future when they apply for very limited tags,
A random draw sounds like a real fair way to distribute coveted big game tags, but I know its not, and it actually ends up being quite unfair.

Like most modern problems, there are no easy answers.

 

[wyo_bulls]

It is very good news that this bill got shot down, no reason at all to have any kind of a PP system for residents, let alone allowing a NR come to the state and keep his PP's, not a chance should that have ever been considered. It was the NR choice to pay for the pp's and it is their choice to move, to bad for them, I would have to be lead to believe that the pp they paid for was the least of their expenses to move. For us residents, there needs to be more discussions about this but if we are looking for "fairness" then the only way for that is a random draw, period. Wyoming has plenty of units to hunt if we can't draw that "coveted" tag. The PP system has failed with the sheep and moose for the kids and the "new" hunters, I can't imagine what good it would do for the deer, antelope and elk. Until a different system can be discussed, introduced and agreed upon, there is no need to have this particular bill introduced ever again.

 

[TOPGUN]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-13 AT 08:24AM (MST)[p]wyo_bulls---FYI a NR already is allowed to keep their PPs when they move to Wyoming. Presently that only does them any good in the sheep and moose draws because there are no PPs for residents for the other animals. When they move to Wyoming they keep those PPs as long as they apply for a license for that animal every other year. In the case of sheep and moose they can also just apply for another PP to keep them all.

 

[wyo_bulls]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-13 AT 08:53AM (MST)[p]I understand that they can keep them for the moose and sheep. I believe that was very unfair to begin with and still do. It just goes to show that there is absolutely no "thinking" going on when these bills are introduced. But it is a very good thing that there are plenty of sportsmen/women out there that keep up on these things more now then in the past, so these kind of bills can't slip through. with that said i understand the fact that a NR would believe they should keep those points because they paid for them, but it is also their choice to move, so there has to be a give and take, that's life.

 

[TOPGUN]

It shouldn't matter where you live if a system was instituted to buy PPs and there was nothing put in it originally to say you will lose your PPs if you move to or from Wyoming? All things like that should be covered from the get-go so there are no hard feelings on anyone's part. If a Bill is passed into law, it should cover everything as much as possible so that things can't be circumvented to give someone an edge over others. That's why most of these Bills that were introduced recently were lousy because they were not well thought out and didn't have all the nuts and bolts in them so that if they passed there would be no misinterpretation of what was really wanted or asked for.

 

[TreeEM]

Wyoming is its own state for a reason. Why are we so bent on trying to make it just like a state where you came from (if you were not born in wyoming)? IF PP's and hunts are so much better why are you residing in Wyoming and wanting to change things to suit what you see as what works for Colorado, Nevada, Utah etc.... Those states have what works for them (whether we deem it as good or not) it is what it is. I am so tired of Piper comparing Wyoming to Colorado and Nevada. People are different in Wyoming and for a reason. I say and stand by what I believe and thats no pp system for residents outside of sheep and moose. Leave it the way it is. Like a guy stated about there are loops in a system for someone to hunt something. Hunting should not be a rich mans sport but it should be something that we do as a hobby and as a privelage. With family or a buddy we need to enjoy what we have, wherever we live. Whats so wrong with being able to hunt every year? Oh wait.... its not fair booo hooo hoo. Cry me a damn river!

 

[Gator]

OP might of asked for resident only, BUT he asked about a NR hunter points being taken or keep if he moved to Wyoming.

Points that are brought and paid for SHOULDN'T every be taken from everyone.

Kind of like the guns you brought and paid for shouldn't be taken from you.

Maybe every ten years they should just wipe out all the points for residents and NR and start with a blank slate that sounds like a plan too. NOT

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]

 

[wyo_bulls]

I am with TreeEm on this and many more wyoming residents. The fair thing is a random draw, there is not one single resident in this state that can't hunt deer, antelope, and elk every single year the way the system is now, so why change it. It is a privelage to hunt, not a right and all residents have that privelage now, so lets keep what we have and enjoy. I still stick to my guns on the NR moving to our state however, those points can't/shouldn't be transfered, but it is what it is now for moose and sheep, because of very poor decision making and planning. And the worst part it almost happened again, thank goodness plenty of residents wrote to their representatives and stopped the bill. Who ever voted this Hicks guy in had better get him out the next time he is up for a new term. All this guy does is sit at a bar with his cronies and draws up illegitimate bills on a bar napkin...

 

[mmwb]

Leave well enough alone. Wyoming is the land of opportunity for outdoor activities. We tend to have an open door policy for those who wish to move here and enjoy the resident privileges.