Wyoming landowner/outfitter tags!

[jims]

I thought I would bring this to every Wyo residents attention. I doubt if many Wyo res or nonres are aware, but landowner tags are taken off the top of the pile of limited tags before limited res/nonres draw tags and quotas are even established? What surprised me is there currently is no quota on landowner tags and every limited tag could potentially go to qualifying landowners! I really believe this is a major flaw in the Wyo elk, deer, and antelope program.

Another giant flaw is that if a hunter buys 160+ acres of land that meets the requirements they automatically can purchase these tags each and every year! Yep if you own 160 acres in unit 100 for elk, 89 deer, or 60 antelope you can "acquire" landowner tags each and every year! There has been talk to increase the acres to be eligible but this will only mean that rich landowners will buy land and be able to "acquire" high demand tags!

What may fix this flaw? 1) Place a cap (%) on landowner tags available and 2) require all landowner tags to be available in the draw similar to every other limited tag in Wyo!

What would capping landowner tags mean to DIY public Wyo res and nonres hunters? This would truly offer them more opportunity to draw high demand limited tags. Wyo res may be surprised how many of the high demand tags are issued to landowners. In fact, in many elk units there are actually more nonres landower tags issued that tags available to the public in the draw. Some units don't even issue public nonres tags because they are all issued to nonres landowners. If Wyo switched to 90/5/5 or 90/10 there would be even fewer tags issued that currently exist. This is a serious flaw!

There is no wonder that landowner tags aren't shown in the WG&F draw odds stats. They clearly aren't there! In fact, it's nearly impossible to get landowner tag numbers unless you actively contact the WG&F and request this information.

 

[jm77]

Worry about your own state Sebastian.

Colorado requires, wait for it, 160 acres for LO tags. Capped at 15% of total general quota east of I 25, 10% west. These tags are transferable.

This does not take into account the Ranching for Wildlife program in which a NR can't participate.

Wyoming LO tags statewide average around 5% of LQ tags and are not transferable. Owner and immediate family only. No RFW program. Small price to pay for half the state's wildlife on deeded ground.

Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. MYOB

 

[BuzzH]

Landowner tolerance of wildlife is likely tied to their ability to receive tags for themselves and family.

If you want to see what it looks like to have low landowner tolerance of wildlife look to Montana. State law to hold elk at or below herd objectives.

Nobody in Wyoming, including landowners, lose their minds about elk, deer, and pronghorn being over-objective.

Sorry jims, you wont be finding much support for your idea to deflect 90-10 with LO tags.

The program has a couple flaws, but over-all a lot of Resident hunters are in favor of it. The couple issues will likely be addressed soon.

 

[dvolmer]

Remember, they might get the tags with just the minimum acreage but they can only hunt on their deeded land with the landowner tag.

 

[BuzzH]

Remember, they might get the tags with just the minimum acreage but they can only hunt on their deeded land with the landowner tag.

Not true.

 

[Chesterwyo]

It’s not just as simple as owning 160 acres. There’s certain thresholds that have to be met when it comes to animal use days.

 

[wytex]

Sorry Buzz but some landowners are upset an elk at numbers being high. This is an interesting read I think. Can't say I agree with the landowners' take.

Ranchers join forces to address wildlife concerns – Wyoming Livestock Roundup

www.wylr.net

They may also hunt lands they have leased for agricultural purposes on their landowner tags I believe.

 

[JPickett]

How much is a acre of land in 100 going for?

 

[SS!]

i wonder if the OP’s wife knows about the Wyoming fetish he holds. Take the wasted time you invest in your half ass crusade regarding anything Wyoming and invest it in your family and your state.

Colorado and your wife will appreciate it. After all Valentine’s Day is right around the corner. If you’re lucky you can write over your valentine to Wyoming and make it out to Colorado.

I’ve seen first hand the abuse of the Wyoming landowner system. But compared to other states it’s not much at all. In fact the majority of the ranchers I know do not even take the tags they qualify for because it’s not a priority to them. I personally know at least a dozen ranchers in unit 100 alone that take zero tags and they all own at least 400 acres. Some own several thousand acres.

You start changing the system and there will be new ways to exploit it and likely not for the better.

Jims you worry about Colorado and leave your mistress Wyoming alone. It’s borderline harassment on your end. No means no!

#metoo

 

[BuzzH]

Sorry Buzz but some landowners are upset an elk at numbers being high. This is an interesting read I think. Can't say I agree with the landowners' take.

Ranchers join forces to address wildlife concerns – Wyoming Livestock Roundup

www.wylr.net

They may also hunt lands they have leased for agricultural purposes on their landowner tags I believe.

Sorry Pam, but 3 landowners griping to the task force isn't representative of all the landowners in Wyoming.

There are many landowners that are much different...if only obviously. In fact, I believe a vast majority are.

These guys want transferable landowner tags, that they can sell. I listened to them at the task force, it was pretty obvious what they're after. If they're so concerned with the number of elk in unit 6, perhaps they should get together with the outfitters and other landowners and open up access.

That's what landowners do in other areas of Wyoming. The tools already exist to control elk numbers and I pay little attention to those that aren't using them. I surely don't let a handful of landowners represent the majority.

Not the point of this thread anyway and if you want to argue that landowners in Wyoming are not tolerant of wildlife here, well, you can find someone else to argue with. Because I don't agree with your assessment, at all.

I'm constantly impressed with the level of support that landowners here give our wildlife. Perhaps your limited experience of hunting only one state for elk, and very few areas in Wyoming at that, has resulted in your unfavorable opinion of wildlife tolerance by private landowners.

 

[SS!]

How much is a acre of land in 100 going for?

If you’re serious send me a PM. Rather not post it publicly.

 

[jims]

Come buy a piece of paradise in Wyo!

Does anyone need a tax shelter plus a great place to hunt trophy antelope and elk every year? Here's 160 acres in unit 100 elk and 61 antelope. There are plenty of 160 chunks to choose from!

Jawbone Rnch, Wamsutter, WY 82336 | Zillow

Jawbone Rnch, Wamsutter WY. The Rent Zestimate for this property is $825/mo, which has increased by $825/mo in the last 30 days.

www.zillow.com

If 100 elk and 61 antelope isn't to your liking how about buying a prime piece of real estate in 54 or 58 elk? It may be pricey but it is peanuts for the wealthy and a great investment! If you have more $ that you need a tax shelter for I'm sure I can find you a small piece of paradise in 87 or 89 deer? Should I go on?

Come one....come all! Invest in Wyo real estate! Just think, you can bi-pass the draw and hunt trophy elk, deer, and antelope every year in each of these units since landowners that meet the criteria can sign up and have guaranteed landowner tags each and every year!

Obviously landowner tags are available until every tag is issued in a limited unit so there are plenty of resident landowner tags available!

Both resident and nonres hunters are the ones that suffer the consequences with the loss of opportunity with each landowner tag that is sold! The current Wyo landowner tag system is a total joke and has so many flaws!

If you are a Wyo res that enjoys DIY hunting public land you better be ready to battle landowners and outfitters! What I think is crazy is the same thing that has been slowly but surely happening to Wyo nonres DIY hunters may actually happen to Wyo residents!

 

[BuzzH]

Come buy a piece of paradise in Wyo!

Does anyone need a tax shelter plus a great place to hunt trophy antelope and elk every year? Here's 160 acres in unit 100 elk and 61 antelope. There are plenty of 160 chunks to choose from!

Jawbone Rnch, Wamsutter, WY 82336 | Zillow

Jawbone Rnch, Wamsutter WY. The Rent Zestimate for this property is $825/mo, which has increased by $825/mo in the last 30 days.

www.zillow.com

If 100 elk and 61 antelope isn't to your liking how about buying a prime piece of real estate in 54 or 58 elk? It may be pricey but it is peanuts for the wealthy and a great investment! If you have more $ that you need a tax shelter for I'm sure I can find you a small piece of paradise in 87 or 89 deer? Should I go on?

Come one....come all! Invest in Wyo real estate! Just think, you can bi-pass the draw and hunt trophy elk, deer, and antelope every year in each of these units since landowners that meet the criteria can sign up and have guaranteed landowner tags each and every year!

Obviously landowner tags are available until every tag is issued in a limited unit so there are plenty of resident landowner tags available!

Both resident and nonres hunters are the ones that suffer the consequences with the loss of opportunity with each landowner tag that is sold! The current Wyo landowner tag system is a total joke and has so many flaws!

If you are a Wyo res that enjoys DIY hunting public land you better be ready to battle landowners and outfitters! What I think is crazy is the same thing that has been slowly but surely happening to Wyo nonres DIY hunters may actually happen to Wyo residents!

Wrong...that 160 you posted won't qualify for a landowner tag for elk and probably not for pronghorn either.

No way there are 2000 use days.

Give it up Sebastian you're starting to sound like an idiot.

 

[Teepee]

Jims, the Task Force spent several hours addressing the landowner tags at the last meeting. They are forming a sub-committee to further look into the issues and will take it up again in March. The meetings are all on Youtube.

 

[jims]

Glad to hear the task force is looking into the flaws of the landowner system...it's a total disaster!

Buzz, there are a lot of different parcels for sale in 100 elk/60 antelope. You know as well as I do that all a guy has to do is put in a water source and here comes the antelope....and possibly a bunch of bull elk!

I'm just using this as an example of what can potentially happen in every limited quota unit in Wyoming. All a guy has to do is buy the right 160 acres and he is set.

The thing I'm pointing out is that every res landowner tag issued is 1 less that is available in the public draw for Wyo res....and nonres! 20 or 30 years from now there will be a chunk fewer public tags issued in the drawing if nothing is changed. I don't think a lot of Wyo residents are aware of this. The landowner tag info is definitely not in the draw stats or the WG&F website. If nothing is changed with the landowner tag process there will likely be a lot more impact on Wyo res than the handful of nonres tags issued to res with 90/10 or 90/5/5.

Believe me, the landowner tag fiasco is going to be a hot issue because that is where there is the largest chunk of tags that could potentially be shifted different directions. If Wyo res have their act together they will prevent them from turning into landowner/outfitter's hands! If Wyo res want more opportunity....here you go!

 

[BuzzH]

Glad to hear the task force is looking into the flaws of the landowner system...it's a total disaster!

Buzz, there are a lot of different parcels for sale in 100 elk/60 antelope. You know as well as I do that all a guy has to do is put in a water source and here comes the antelope....and possibly a bunch of bull elk!

I'm just using this as an example of what can potentially happen in every limited quota unit in Wyoming. All a guy has to do is buy the right 160 acres and he is set.

The thing I'm pointing out is that every res landowner tag issued is 1 less that is available in the public draw for Wyo res....and nonres! 20 or 30 years from now there will be a chunk fewer public tags issued in the drawing if nothing is changed. I don't think a lot of Wyo residents are aware of this. The landowner tag info is definitely not in the draw stats or the WG&F website. If nothing is changed with the landowner tag process there will likely be a lot more impact on Wyo res than the handful of nonres tags issued to res with 90/10 or 90/5/5.

Believe me, the landowner tag fiasco is going to be a hot issue because that is where there is the largest chunk of tags that could potentially be shifted different directions. If Wyo res have their act together they will prevent them from turning into landowner/outfitter's hands! If Wyo res want more opportunity....here you go!

The biggest block of tags is keeping another 6% of LQ elk tags and 10% of deer and pronghorn tags through a 90-10 split R/NR and that's a fact.

 

[SS!]

Come buy a piece of paradise in Wyo!

Does anyone need a tax shelter plus a great place to hunt trophy antelope and elk every year? Here's 160 acres in unit 100 elk and 61 antelope. There are plenty of 160 chunks to choose from!

Jawbone Rnch, Wamsutter, WY 82336 | Zillow

Jawbone Rnch, Wamsutter WY. The Rent Zestimate for this property is $825/mo, which has increased by $825/mo in the last 30 days.

www.zillow.com

If 100 elk and 61 antelope isn't to your liking how about buying a prime piece of real estate in 54 or 58 elk? It may be pricey but it is peanuts for the wealthy and a great investment! If you have more $ that you need a tax shelter for I'm sure I can find you a small piece of paradise in 87 or 89 deer? Should I go on?

Come one....come all! Invest in Wyo real estate! Just think, you can bi-pass the draw and hunt trophy elk, deer, and antelope every year in each of these units since landowners that meet the criteria can sign up and have guaranteed landowner tags each and every year!

Obviously landowner tags are available until every tag is issued in a limited unit so there are plenty of resident landowner tags available!

Both resident and nonres hunters are the ones that suffer the consequences with the loss of opportunity with each landowner tag that is sold! The current Wyo landowner tag system is a total joke and has so many flaws!

If you are a Wyo res that enjoys DIY hunting public land you better be ready to battle landowners and outfitters! What I think is crazy is the same thing that has been slowly but surely happening to Wyo nonres DIY hunters may actually happen to Wyo residents!

That property does not qualify for elk tags. That’s why it’s still for sale. The going rate for ANY property with the chance of landowner tags runs at least a 1000 an acre.

You’re pathetic. But it does make me happy how badly you have your panties in a wad. You’re a receiver and will always be one.

 

[jm77]

Give it up Sebastian you're starting to sound like an idiot.

He's way beyond the "starting to" part.

 

[jims]

It's apparent that I've hit home with my statements. My guess is SS and JM possibly own land in Wyo that take full advantage of their landowner set aside tags situation. If I was a Wyo res I would be totally upset that the current landowners tags are set aside off the top of the pile of available before the public draw happens!

If a couple Wyo res don't see the writing on the wall than that's totally fine with me! EVERY limited landowner tag that is issued takes 1 tag away from Wyo res and nonres for elk, deer, and antelope. That is pretty much black and white. I can guarantee those numbers are increasing and going to significantly increase in the coming years as more people move to Wyo.

If you guys are in favor of additional set aside tags for landowners....great! That is exactly how the current landowner program is set up in Wyo. How many people are going to move into Wyo in the coming years and buy up more and more land/properties and take landowner tags away from Wyo res in the draws?

The task force and outfitters already know that 90/10 and 90/5/5 only have a tiny limited # of tags that will be offered to Wyo res. In fact, once landowners take their chunk of tags off the top there aren't even any elk units available to nonres in many units.

 

[Chesterwyo]

For fugg’s sake. The example you seem to have Glommed onto, elk area 100. There are enough 160 acre pieces out there that if this were as prevalent as you claim; there would be exactly zero tags available in the draw after the landowners received their share. Explain to everyone why that is not the case, please.

 

[BuzzH]

It's apparent that I've hit home with my statements. My guess is SS and JM possibly own land in Wyo that take full advantage of their landowner set aside tags situation. If I was a Wyo res I would be totally upset that the current landowners tags are set aside off the top of the pile of available before the public draw happens!

If a couple Wyo res don't see the writing on the wall than that's totally fine with me! EVERY limited landowner tag that is issued takes 1 tag away from Wyo res and nonres for elk, deer, and antelope. That is pretty much black and white. I can guarantee those numbers are increasing and going to significantly increase in the coming years as more people move to Wyo.

If you guys are in favor of additional set aside tags for landowners....great! That is exactly how the current landowner program is set up in Wyo. How many people are going to move into Wyo in the coming years and buy up more and more land/properties and take landowner tags away from Wyo res in the draws?

The task force and outfitters already know that 90/10 and 90/5/5 only have a tiny limited # of tags that will be offered to Wyo res. In fact, once landowners take their chunk of tags off the top there aren't even any elk units available to nonres in many units.

There are many things the landowners provide for those tags.

In many cases, they allow access on their deeded ground and access through the deeded ground because they get landowner tags.

In many cases they not only show tolerance for our wildlife, they do habitat improvements to their property to support wildlife for all or part of the year. Things that they may not do if they didn't get landowner tags.

That benefits the wildlife, the land, access, and habitat as well as both Resident and Non Resident Sportsmen. If 2 tags on qualifying properties is the compromise for all that...I make that deal.

Finally Sebastian, if you think that you're going to have any success getting rid of the landowner program, you're dead wrong.

I would recommend you spend your time and effort trying to clean up the absolute mess that Colorado has going on with tag allocations...and getting rid of that clown show of a Ranching for Wildlife Program.

 

[SS!]

Jims when you go on outfitted Wyoming pronghorn hunts does the outfitter let you be big spoon?

Yeah, I didn’t think so.

 

[tracker12]

Lots of BS of the facts in this post for sure. I like the idea of giving landowners tags. They do live there and pay taxes. Good for WY. Plus in WY those tags have to be used for personal or immediate family. If any state has it wrong it's CO and the UTards and all there auction tags.

 

[wytex]

Sorry Pam, but 3 landowners griping to the task force isn't representative of all the landowners in Wyoming.

There are many landowners that are much different...if only obviously. In fact, I believe a vast majority are.

These guys want transferable landowner tags, that they can sell. I listened to them at the task force, it was pretty obvious what they're after. If they're so concerned with the number of elk in unit 6, perhaps they should get together with the outfitters and other landowners and open up access.

That's what landowners do in other areas of Wyoming. The tools already exist to control elk numbers and I pay little attention to those that aren't using them. I surely don't let a handful of landowners represent the majority.

Not the point of this thread anyway and if you want to argue that landowners in Wyoming are not tolerant of wildlife here, well, you can find someone else to argue with. Because I don't agree with your assessment, at all.

I'm constantly impressed with the level of support that landowners here give our wildlife. Perhaps your limited experience of hunting only one state for elk, and very few areas in Wyoming at that, has resulted in your unfavorable opinion of wildlife tolerance by private landowners.

Sorry but I think you misunderstood what I was pointing out. Some landowners have that attitude and are trying to influence the Task Force. Just happens to be in an area that is mostly private and I do not agree with the few's arguments.
I happen to know most do not have that thinking.

You made the comment "nobody in Wyoming, including landowners is losing their minds over elk being over objective" and I just pointed it out that some are.
I know full well it is not the general consensus among landowners and thankfully the ones I know very well are not of that mindset either.

You really make it hard to agree with you when you go off half cocked for no reason.

 

[JPickett]

That property does not qualify for elk tags. That’s why it’s still for sale. The going rate for ANY property with the chance of landowner tags runs at least a 1000 an acre.

That’s why I was asking. It can’t be as straight forward as own 160 acres get tags. If so jumping on a 70k lot with 4 or 5 of your best hunting buddies would be a real cheap investment to hunt Wyoming every year

 

[elks96]

This WY resident, who saw all the crap in Colorado develop, loves the WY land Owner set up. Use days combined with transfer rules make the set up much better than any other state I am aware of…

As mentioned I have seen many of the landowners allow access, in fact unlike CO I have had the landowners meet me, shake my hand. Show me the property and over me a place to sleep.

Never in my time in Colorado have I seen it work that way. I will gladly give 5-10% off the top to landowners who do such actions.

Colorado foolishly gave up any chance of such a system. Between the crooked RFW system, and the transferable tags, the current system in WY is amazing and easily a 1000 times better…

 

[BuzzH]

Sorry but I think you misunderstood what I was pointing out. Some landowners have that attitude and are trying to influence the Task Force. Just happens to be in an area that is mostly private and I do not agree with the few's arguments.
I happen to know most do not have that thinking.

You made the comment "nobody in Wyoming, including landowners is losing their minds over elk being over objective" and I just pointed it out that some are.
I know full well it is not the general consensus among landowners and thankfully the ones I know very well are not of that mindset either.

You really make it hard to agree with you when you go off half cocked for no reason.

Really?

Study up on the Jennings law in New Mexico and Debby Barrett's bill in Montana.

That is what landowners losing their minds about over objective elk looks like.

Which is much different than 3 landowners out of hundreds doing a bit of whining because they can't have transferrable landowner tags.

Like I said, correctly the first time, nobody in Wyoming is losing their mind over elk numbers.

 

[tracker12]

That’s why I was asking. It can’t be as straight forward as own 160 acres get tags. If so jumping on a 70k lot with 4 or 5 of your best hunting buddies would be a real cheap investment to hunt Wyoming every year

Where is 70k cheap in WY

 

[JPickett]

Where is 70k cheap in WY

Was referencing the link posted earlier. 70k for 160 acres. That’d be cheap elk hunting for the rest of your life if it came with tags

Jawbone Rnch, Wamsutter, WY 82336 | Zillow

Jawbone Rnch, Wamsutter WY. The Rent Zestimate for this property is $825/mo, which has increased by $825/mo in the last 30 days.

www.zillow.com

 

[tracker12]

Was referencing the link posted earlier. 70k for 160 acres. That’d be cheap elk hunting for the rest of your life if it came with tags

Jawbone Rnch, Wamsutter, WY 82336 | Zillow

Jawbone Rnch, Wamsutter WY. The Rent Zestimate for this property is $825/mo, which has increased by $825/mo in the last 30 days.

www.zillow.com

Yea but there are no elk on that property so that tag won't do you much good.

 

[jims]

I agree 100% that it's great that Wyo landowners are offered tags. A major flaw in the program is there is no quota or cap on the number of landowner tags issued. If the land meets the requirements every landowner that applies receives tags. It's possible for all tags to be issued to landowners with 0 tags available in the public draw.

I thought Wyo res may be interested in how many total landowner tags were issued in a few popular limited elk and deer units in 2021. The % in the right hand columns are the % of the total tags issued that went to landowners.

Obviously since there isn't a quota or cap on landowner tags these numbers will likely increase as more hunters move to Wyoming or invest in hunting properties. Everyone knows that real estate is a great investment/tax break, and you can hunt high demand limited elk, deer, and antelope units every year with landowner tags. Why buy pref pts and wait a lifetime to draw tags? Wyo res could care less and believe the landowner program is amazing?

What I find humorous is that Wyo res believe they will gain SO MANY tags with 90/10 or 90/5/5 while landowners are picking their back pockets with way higher loss of tags each year! I also think it is a little humorous that Wyo res don't even seem concerned about the current landowner tag system and several of it's major flaws.

Each resident landowner tag issued is 1 less landowner tag issued in the public draw to Wyo res and nonres!

Maybe it doesn't matter that 17 to 56% of the total elk tags and 20 to 36% of the total deer tags were handed over to landowners in these popular units? I'm sure a few Wyo res and nonres are foaming at the mouth as we speak looking at real estate listings!

Using unit 7 elk as an example there were 319 total type 1 elk tags issued to landowners in 2021 which was 25% of the total tags available. Does anyone want to hunt unit 7 elk every year? Figure out a strategy to buy land in Wyo! In regard to deer, 1/3 of total tags were issued to landowners in several units. All you need to do is combine $ with some hunting buddies, purchase the right piece of land....it would be a great investment!

 

[Bookhead]

Well i agree there are too many landowner tags given in some areas the percentage that an area can receive should be capped

 

[Bookhead]

But your math is wrong jims 10 tags out of 42 is not 48 percent in area 30 lol

 

[SS!]

I agree 100% that it's great that Wyo landowners are offered tags. A major flaw in the program is there is no quota or cap on the number of landowner tags issued. If the land meets the requirements every landowner that applies receives tags. It's possible for all tags to be issued to landowners with 0 tags available in the public draw.

I thought Wyo res may be interested in how many total landowner tags were issued in a few popular limited elk and deer units in 2021. The % in the right hand columns are the % of the total tags issued that went to landowners.

Obviously since there isn't a quota or cap on landowner tags these numbers will likely increase as more hunters move to Wyoming or invest in hunting properties. Everyone knows that real estate is a great investment/tax break, and you can hunt high demand limited elk, deer, and antelope units every year with landowner tags. Why buy pref pts and wait a lifetime to draw tags? Wyo res could care less and believe the landowner program is amazing?

What I find humorous is that Wyo res believe they will gain SO MANY tags with 90/10 or 90/5/5 while landowners are picking their back pockets with way higher loss of tags each year! I also think it is a little humorous that Wyo res don't even seem concerned about the current landowner tag system and several of it's major flaws.

Each resident landowner tag issued is 1 less landowner tag issued in the public draw to Wyo res and nonres!

Maybe it doesn't matter that 17 to 56% of the total elk tags and 20 to 36% of the total deer tags were handed over to landowners in these popular units? I'm sure a few Wyo res and nonres are foaming at the mouth as we speak looking at real estate listings!

Using unit 7 elk as an example there were 319 total type 1 elk tags issued to landowners in 2021 which was 25% of the total tags available. Does anyone want to hunt unit 7 elk every year? Figure out a strategy to buy land in Wyo! In regard to deer, 1/3 of total tags were issued to landowners in several units. All you need to do is combine $ with some hunting buddies, purchase the right piece of land....it would be a great investment!
View attachment 68147

This is so wrong. Man you really do suck at arts and crafts.

You should have mommy check your numbers next time.

 

[Deercy]

Gentlemen....... please. It's like a car wreck. I don't want to watch but I can't help myself.

 

[jm77]

View attachment 68147

Like most everything you write these charts are wrong. It takes only an mid-school education in math to figure how many LO tags are issued per area. That might be asking too much of you.

The three areas I checked, 7, 16 & 111 you are showing a high number for resident LO tags by a significant number.

Give it a rest (yeah right that will be the day)

 

[SS!]

<insert Jims post where he’s asking for the corrections>

 

[jims]

Take a closer look. I added up total landowner tags issued (that's resident plus nonres landowner tags). I made a mistake on one calculation...OMG, sorry guys! At least I admit it.

You can rip into me all you want....I could care less. The point I'm making is pretty darn clear! I bet a lot of concerned DIY/OYO Wyo res and nonres hunters are thrilled that these flaws are being brought to the full attention of the Task Force.

I would be concerned if I was a Wyo resident and they handed out such a large proportion of tags to landowners in the units I can never draw. When there are no caps or quota restrictions on landowner tags the sky is the limit in future years! 90/10 and 90/5/5 tags are nothing compared to the impact of landowner tag allotments that are taken off the top of resident and nonres public draw quotas! What happens 10 to 20 years from now if this isn't changed? It may be wise to take a closer look and consider what happens if this nonsense continues in the future?

Have you tried to find these numbers at the WG&F website? They aren't available and most Wyo residents have no idea how many landowner tags are issued? I have a feeling as word spreads that there will be a lot of guys purchasing land in Wyo to take full advantage of the flaws in the landowner system unless these flaws are changed.

Just remember.....each landowner tag issued is 1 less tag issued in the public draw to Wyo res or nonres! Do Wyo DIY/OYO hunters want more opportunity or want to just sit back and lose opportunity each year?

 

[jm77]

Take a closer look. I added up total landowner tags issued (that's resident plus nonres landowner tags). I made a mistake on one calculation...OMG, sorry guys!

By showing resident tag numbers, compared to LO tags for both Res & NR combined, you calculated wrong on every area shown.

 

[jims]

My table shows how many total landowner tags are issued.

By the way JM and SS, do you or relatives receive landowner tags? I think I know why you both are so concerned and are trying so hard to screw up this post?

Simply put, I think landowners that qualify should be eligible for tags but the system has serious flaws!

 

[hossblur]

It pains me to agree with Buzz.

But.

Look SW to see how bad things can get.

Utah in all it's wisdom created CWMU system to "help" landowners. What it created was private hunting clubs with months longs seasons.

Further, we have numerous landowners waging their own private wars against deer and elk.

We lose multiple thousands of deer to landowners gunning them down, legally.

I personally hunt on some private, that is inside an LE unit, and the owner has told me several times, a tag evey 5 years or so would make his losses a lot more tolerable.(instead $fw auctions off that units tags each year?)

So, ya, Buzz is right. If landowners are ok with the status quo, a few tags ain't hurting anyone. Further, those landowner tags, IMO, should come from the NR pile, not the residents. NR hunting is a privilege, not a right

 

[jm77]

Further, those landowner tags, IMO, should come from the NR pile, not the residents. NR hunting is a privilege, not a right

This is a great idea which I will voice to the task force at the next meeting.

 

[wytex]

Really?

Study up on the Jennings law in New Mexico and Debby Barrett's bill in Montana.

That is what landowners losing their minds about over objective elk looks like.

Which is much different than 3 landowners out of hundreds doing a bit of whining because they can't have transferrable landowner tags.

Like I said, correctly the first time, nobody in Wyoming is losing their mind over elk numbers.

Ok you win, the landowners in the article aren't losing their minds over elk numbers.
I simply posted that some, very few are raising a stink over elk numbers and LO licenses. It is relevant to this thread so I will not be taking your edict to not post on this thread.

I could care less what NM landowners are losing their minds over.

I do think our current LO licenses system is ok and they do deserve some licenses, could it be tweaked maybe.

hossblur makes some very good points, thank you for those sir.

 

[junior]

So are land owners proposing to gain the tags nr lose? Dag...residents may lose big time! Especially if tag fees are increased.

 

[jims]

So take a look at how many total landowner tags were issued in a few popular elk and deer units in 2021.

Now take a look at how many nonres tags are allocated in these units in the random pool with 2021, 90/10, and 90/5/5 allotments.

 

[jims]

JM, now tell me where all the nonres tags are going to come from that will be handed over to landowners? It certainly isn't coming from nonres because many units already don't even offer 1 nonres tag!

Elk units that currently don't offer any random nonres tags with 2021 allotments because nonres landowners take the few that exist: 111, 54-1, 54-2, 124, 31, 32, 53-1, 53-2, 56, 59, 61-2, 63-2, 84. 88, 118.

What happens if 1/2 of the tags above are taken away from nonres with 90/10 or 90/5/5? Take a look at how many additional units in my chart don't even offer 1 nonres random tag with 90/10 or 90/5/5. It doesn't make sense for nonres to apply and buy pref pts if there are hardly any limited unit draw options left?

Take a look at the top chart above with the number of total landowner tags listed. Where are all these tags going to come from when there are 0 nonres tags left? If they aren't already 0 it will only take a couple new landowners applying and all nonres tags will be gone!

Where else will these tags come from? It's pretty obvious it will have to come from off the top of Wyo res tag quotas. It sure makes sense to cap landowner tags unless Wyo res are willing to sacrifice not drawing tags as often?

Hey JM and SS, you haven't answered my question? Does you or your family take advantage of the landowner system and buy landowner tags that bi-pass the draw system?

 

[Bookhead]

I don't see why landowner tags aren't only valid on their own land that would cut out allot of the bs

 

[jm77]

I don't see why landowner tags aren't only valid on their own land that would cut out allot of the bs

Think about it. What could be some reasons that LO tags are area wide?

 

[jm77]

So take a look at how many total landowner tags were issued in a few popular elk and deer units in 2021.

View attachment 68256

Your chart is still wrong, you're comparing total LO tags to resident quotas.

 

[Bookhead]

Think about it. What could be some reasons that LO tags are area wide?

I see what you're saying. I don't think landowner tags are a problem in most areas and I do think landowners deserve them but in other areas it's a little out of hand

 

[Bookhead]

I also like the idea of taking them out of the nr quota that's a brilliant idea

 

[jm77]

I see what you're saying. I don't think landowner tags are a problem in most areas and I do think landowners deserve them but in other areas it's a little out of hand

There needs to be a cap, like 10 or 15% per area. There needs to be a way to stop subdividing for tags and any landowner who wasn't qualified in the past, should be now.

 

[hossblur]

As a long time member, I'm ASTONISHED at the amount of NR dudes who think their opinions matter in Wyoming, or that they are owed something. Why is it Wyoming. My state pounds NR. As does every other state. While I think hammering NR in the long run is stupid, I can't get over the "you owe me, BS.

ITS NONE OF YOUR BUISNESS, if you don't own ground in Wyoming, what Wyoming does is of no matter to you. Don't like it, keep you azz home.

"Thank you", is the only sentence ever muttered by a NR that is acceptable.

Go buy ground, then talk

 

[junior]

Jims is on to something here! Taking away from the average Joe resident is the only way the landowners will get enough tags. Well played.

 

[jims]

I agree that a cap is a definite change in the right direction! It actually wouldn't take many minor "tweaks" that would dramatically improve the current landowner system.

 

[grosventrehunter]

Meanwhile, in Colorado.....

 

[Builder92]

Meanwhile, in Colorado.....

...adding wolves....

 

[one_dryboot]

As a long time member, I'm ASTONISHED at the amount of NR dudes who think their opinions matter in Wyoming, or that they are owed something. Why is it Wyoming. My state pounds NR. As does every other state. While I think hammering NR in the long run is stupid, I can't get over the "you owe me, BS.

ITS NONE OF YOUR BUISNESS, if you don't own ground in Wyoming, what Wyoming does is of no matter to you. Don't like it, keep you azz home.

"Thank you", is the only sentence ever muttered by a NR that is acceptable.

Go buy ground, then talk

So you’re not allowed to have an opinion. GTFO. ?

 

[hossblur]

"matter"

I couldn't give a **** what Wyoming folks opinions are here.

 

[jims]

It's only October and here we go again!

 

[jm77]

It's only October and here we go again!

Right, and it's a thread from a year and a half ago resurrected by a newbie. Who are the trouble makers on the Wyoming Forum?