yellowstone drama

[nfh]

here we go. more cwd panic. its on the news, local paper, radio and other media outlets. PANIC!!!!!!!!!

my first thought was did the deer get killed by a predator? was there signs of a predator kill? of course with this fish cops just say 100 percent fatal death with cwd

Mule deer tests positive for chronic wasting disease in Yellowstone National Park - Yellowstone National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov

 

[jm77]

I wonder when the NPS will begin killing mature bucks to lower the buck/doe ratio?

 

[BrianID]

That is bad news. Now that CWD has a foothold in Yellowstone it is very likely to spread to parts of Idaho and Wyoming that don't currently have CWD. Deer and Elk that spend the summer in Yellowstone will travel to long distances into Idaho, Wyoming and Montana to spend the winter.
Idaho F&G has shown it manages CWD by trying to kill off all the deer and elk in that drainage. I'm thinking CWD is just going to be something we have to learn to live with just like COVID. Sometimes the containment strategies can be worse than harm caused by the disease.

 

[nfh]

I wonder when the NPS will begin killing mature bucks to lower the buck/doe ratio?

Can see it already lets do more harm but gunning down mature animals with a chopper.

 

[elks96]

I thought that predators fixed this issue. I mean if anyplace would never get CWD it would be Yellowstone because the wolves are miracle workers…

 

[elks96]

Is it true that the deer around Cody are running 10-15% infection rates?

 

[nfh]

Is it true that the deer around Cody are running 10-15% infection rates?

from what i was told last year they saw a increase in cwd numbers. the numbers are funky, more test get more results, more test with less positive results the numbers still went up. i have brought this up and attitudes change very quick.

I'm not buying into their cwd crap and they dont like it. now they want to panic that deer numbers could drop when numbers were dropping well before.

I'm still waiting on my phone call from the fish cops to go on a field trip cause every deer they see are in bad shape and I want to be taken along so i can see it.

Also i stated road kill has increased around cody, you have more people building and yellowstone tourism goes up every year which equals more road kill. Who know how many lions we got and what the effect of that is. so those 2 things are a big impact but according to them cwd kills more then roadkill and lions combined.

I even sent this discussion to another member here on MM to show this is what was said.

 

[elks96]

from what i was told last year they saw a increase in cwd numbers. the numbers are funky, more test get more results, more test with less positive results the numbers still went up. i have brought this up and attitudes change very quick.

I'm not buying into their cwd crap and they dont like it. now they want to panic that deer numbers could drop when numbers were dropping well before.

I'm still waiting on my phone call from the fish cops to go on a field trip cause every deer they see are in bad shape and I want to be taken along so i can see it.

Also i stated road kill has increased around cody, you have more people building and yellowstone tourism goes up every year which equals more road kill. Who know how many lions we got and what the effect of that is. so those 2 things are a big impact but according to them cwd kills more then roadkill and lions combined.

I even sent this discussion to another member here on MM to show this is what was said.

Yeah it is the same bs in Colorado as well. When I was there they were pulling the same crap. At one point they were taking CWD samples from everything they could. In fact there was an Officer who was assigned to drive the highways every single day and remove the heads from and animal hit on the road. The problem was such large and truly random sample data put the infection rates super low. Then in the last round they only did hunter data and that is the only time when they can get any real #s in infection rate, and the only time they can say it is a mature buck issue etc.

It is a pathetic joke and more about $$$ than about wildlife management.

 

[jims]

I can guarantee that there are plenty of wolves, coyotes, grizz, mtn lions, and black bears inside Yellowstone to kill the sick CWD deer! It's a no brainer! Let the 4-legged predators do the work!

CWD has been in mule deer inside Rocky Mtn National Park in Colo since the early 1980’s. The deer around Estes and RMNP are doing just fine even though the prions have been building up in the soil the past 40+ years.

I live in the epi-center of where CWD started and spend just about every day at work year-round in mule deer country. I've only seen a couple sick deer in 40+ years. I've found dead deer killed by coyotes and mtn lions that may have possibly had CWD? According to those that claim CWD is so horrible, where are all the sick deer? I know the CPW found one they put on a video a while back....but that was a giant publicity stunt if you ask me!

My guess is the deer build up some sort of resistance because there never has been a major die-off. Killing older age bucks may actually do more harm than good if older bucks contain better genes for combating the disease are harvested.

 

[mightyhunter]

from what i was told last year they saw a increase in cwd numbers. the numbers are funky, more test get more results, more test with less positive results the numbers still went up. i have brought this up and attitudes change very quick.

I'm not buying into their cwd crap and they dont like it. now they want to panic that deer numbers could drop when numbers were dropping well before.

I'm still waiting on my phone call from the fish cops to go on a field trip cause every deer they see are in bad shape and I want to be taken along so i can see it.

Also i stated road kill has increased around cody, you have more people building and yellowstone tourism goes up every year which equals more road kill. Who know how many lions we got and what the effect of that is. so those 2 things are a big impact but according to them cwd kills more then roadkill and lions combined.

I even sent this discussion to another member here on MM to show this is what was said.

Will this come up at the December meetings in the new palace in Cody? Just sayin…mh

 

[nfh]

I

Will this come up at the December meetings in the new palace in Cody? Just sayin…mh

I'm sure it will as a tool to brainwash the clueless people

 

[jims]

It's great to hear that the word has gotten out about CWD! Public hunters have been willing to stand up to some of the pathetic strategies that have been introduced to supposedly prevent the spread and impacts of CWD. None of these strategies have done squat! Culling projects and increasing hunting pressure on older age class bucks is a farce!

 

[elkmo41]

CWD is the “IN” thing with Game and Fish across America. Send a bio off to a “cwd” synopsis, comes back with the “game plan” thats being implemented in all states.

Instead of recreating the wheel they are using others research as best practice. Cwd has been in deer herds for decades coast to coast. No testing equals no cwd…more testing…more cwd. The only way to stop it’s spread would be reduce ungulates numbers to the current bison levels.

My question is some type of Federal money available to states Game and Fish for these programs? Maybe thats the motivation. Why the heck do they all jump in with the exact same game plan…kill em all before cwd does?

Side note: Anyone notice how CWD has not been found in Colorado’s trophy unit 44 but has been found in all surrounding units? Are they cherry picking where CWD can and can’t be found?

 

[HntHrdr]

Shot a few older bucks in the frontrange “epicenter” units… where the rate is supposed 20+ % both have been super healthy looking, great shape physically with a big old layer of fat one I took to mandatory testing, biologist had him at 5.5-6.5 years and he was negative.

 

[jims]

I’m pretty sure they alternate units to test for cwd. There also aren’t many tags issued in some highly limited units so the sample size of bucks is extremely low.

I’m pretty sure there has been millions of $ spent on CWD research across the country.

If you hear the same ole opening comment used by state agencies that CWD is “always fatal in cervids” you know they are using wording from back in the 1980’s to promote culling projects.

What I find amazing is that there was a large scale and long term CWD project conducted in the Estes Valley back in the 1980’s. They sampled live deer and killed every deer that tested positive for multiple years.

The conclusion from that study was killing nearly every deer that tested positive didn’t decrease CWD in years after the culling projects.

They also compared cwd prevalence where they culled every cwd vs an adjacent area that was hunted. They hardly found any difference.

They mentioned at the conclusion of that and another similar study conducted near Golden, Colo that predators did a fantastic job of targeting and killing sick CWD deer.

You hear nothing about those studies. The CPW has pretty much swept these studies under the carpet!

Years later the CPW suddenly changed things up with their ridiculous rut rifle season dates to “cull” older age class buck idea to prevent the spread of CWD. Doesn’t make any sense to me! It’s amazing what $ and politics can do to state agencies! Are these decisions science-based or is it merely politics?

 

[ClearCreek]

I have the opposite experience.

We (my wife and I) have hunted white-tailed deer on a ranch in northcentral Wyoming for 20+ years. Since 201,7 when we started keeping track of our CWD test results, six of the twelve WT bucks (all 2+ years old and older) we have killed have tested positive for CWD.

We have seen 3 or 4 "sick" WT bucks over the years. However, the deer we have killed have appeared healthy when we shot them.

The WT buck I killed this year had a lot of fat in the body cavity and lot of back fat, but it tested positive for CWD.

We have observed an 80 to 90 percent decline in deer numbers (both WT and MD) on this ranch and the surrounding private lands. We did not observe one mule deer this year on this ranch, normally we see a dozen or more.

ClearCreek

 

[jm77]

I have the opposite experience.

We (my wife and I) have hunted white-tailed deer on a ranch in northcentral Wyoming for 20+ years. Since 201,7 when we started keeping track of our CWD test results, six of the twelve WT bucks (all 2+ years old and older) we have killed have tested positive for CWD.

We have seen 3 or 4 "sick" WT bucks over the years. However, the deer we have killed have appeared healthy when we shot them.

The WT buck I killed this year had a lot of fat in the body cavity and lot of back fat, but it tested positive for CWD.

We have observed an 80 to 90 percent decline in deer numbers (both WT and MD) on this ranch and the surrounding private lands. We did not observe one mule deer this year on this ranch, normally we see a dozen or more.

ClearCreek

So does the ranch you hunt favor killing mature whitetail down to a 5/100 buck/doe ratio?

 

[IDbullz]

I have the opposite experience.

We (my wife and I) have hunted white-tailed deer on a ranch in northcentral Wyoming for 20+ years. Since 201,7 when we started keeping track of our CWD test results, six of the twelve WT bucks (all 2+ years old and older) we have killed have tested positive for CWD.

We have seen 3 or 4 "sick" WT bucks over the years. However, the deer we have killed have appeared healthy when we shot them.

The WT buck I killed this year had a lot of fat in the body cavity and lot of back fat, but it tested positive for CWD.

We have observed an 80 to 90 percent decline in deer numbers (both WT and MD) on this ranch and the surrounding private lands. We did not observe one mule deer this year on this ranch, normally we see a dozen or more.

ClearCreek

There might be a few other factors affecting that ranch ie drought, over harvesting, predators, bad winters, explosion in elk numbers, over grazing, etc. At least at your current trend you won’t have any CWD soon as there won’t be any deer remaining.

 

[jims]

Clear Creek, although CWD is likely present, what you may be seeing with your whitetails and mule deer is EHD and blue tongue? Although CWD may also be a problem, EHD and blue tongue has the potential to totally wipe out local whitetail and antelope populations....and to a lesser extent, mule deer, elk, and even bighorn sheep.

Here is an article that talks about EHD and blue tongue. The major difference between EHD and CWD is you will find lots of sick and dead animals with EHD. These outbreaks can lead to localized catastrophic loss of deer.

Bluetongue Disease in Deer: Everything Hunters Need to Know

Blue tongue disease can be devastating for deer herds. This is what you need to know about it before the season starts.

www.wideopenspaces.com

Here in Colo where CWD has been present for well over 40 years the mule deer population has never crashed! There are lots of totally healthy deer still roaming the hills. How many healthy looking deer get harvested every year by hunters that test positive for CWD and are older age? This is still the case here in Colo where CWD prions have been building in the soil for over 40 years!

I find it amazing that state agencies shrug off localized catastrophic die offs from EHD and blue tongue while the sky is falling down with CWD!

Here is a 2022 article about EHD in Wyoming. If you do a web search you will find a bunch more articles specific to Wyo.

Not A Good Year For Deer Hunting In Wyoming; Warm Weather, Drought And Disease To Blame

Wildlife disease, particularly blue tongue disease, hit deer populations in parts of Wyoming hard this year, seriously diminishing hunting opportunities in the Black Hills area.

cowboystatedaily.com

Here is an interesting article about EHD and blue tongue in Montana. With EHD and blue tongue you are likely going to find a lot of dead deer and antelope.

Montana’s EHD and Blue Tongue - Eastmans' Official Blog | Mule Deer, Antelope, Elk Hunting and Bowhunting Magazine | Eastmans' Hunting Journals

EHD is spread among deer, primarily whitetails and often antelope, as well as mule deer and occasion

blog.eastmans.com

A buddy of mine is a guide in Central Nebraska. He's seen major die-offs of whitetail and mule deer in his area from EHD and/or blue tongue. In fact, they have found so many dead deer over the past 5 years in his area that they no longer test dead deer.

Epizootic Hemorrhagic Disease | Nebraska Game & Parks Commission

Learn more about epizootic hemorrhagic disease, or EHD, which causes illness in white-tailed and mule deer.

outdoornebraska.gov

Nebraska sees uptick in blue tongue disease in deer, elk

(The Center Square) – Nebraska wildlife experts are seeing an uptick in blue tongue disease, a potentially deadly virus that can kill deer, elk and bighorn sheep.

www.thecentersquare.com

With that said, what can be done about EHD and blue tongue that has proven to result in catastrophic local deer and antelope losses? I don't see any agencies in a panic or even raise an eye-brow over these diseases? Can something be done to protect the deer and antelope in outbreak years from these deadly and immediately fatal diseases? With all the attention placed on CWD, what about EHD and blue tongue?

Maybe I am wrong....but if I was an outfitter in Wyoming, Montana, Nebraska, Kansas, South Dakota, and possibly Colorado, I would be a lot more concerned about catastrophic die-offs of deer and antelope from EHD and blue tongue in the areas I guide than CWD. Wyo antelope numbers are at historic lows across most of Wyo. My guess is that EHD and blue tongue have been a major player in this. Obviously, the combo of both of all of these diseases could be devastating!

My take on it is that it would definitely be worthwhile to remind state agencies of all the dead carcasses found in areas devastated by EHD and blue tongue. This has never been the case where CWD prions have existed for over 40 years!

 

[elks96]

I have the opposite experience.

We (my wife and I) have hunted white-tailed deer on a ranch in northcentral Wyoming for 20+ years. Since 201,7 when we started keeping track of our CWD test results, six of the twelve WT bucks (all 2+ years old and older) we have killed have tested positive for CWD.

We have seen 3 or 4 "sick" WT bucks over the years. However, the deer we have killed have appeared healthy when we shot them.

The WT buck I killed this year had a lot of fat in the body cavity and lot of back fat, but it tested positive for CWD.

We have observed an 80 to 90 percent decline in deer numbers (both WT and MD) on this ranch and the surrounding private lands. We did not observe one mule deer this year on this ranch, normally we see a dozen or more.

ClearCreek

I hate to be a such a conspiracy theorist, but I would love to know how many false positives we get for CWD testing? Could some areas intentionally inflating numbers? There is big $$$ with CWD right now…

While I am certain the numbers are down, to my knowledge there has never been any documented research showing that CWD is responsible for mass deer die offs. Instead all the mass die offs are usually from the managers over reaction.

 

[jm77]

Clear Creek, although CWD is likely present, what you may be seeing with your whitetails and mule deer is EHD and blue tongue?

Trust me, he knows the difference.

 

[hossblur]

Talked to DWR during elk hunt in Utah.

South slope of Uintas has some. Along Colorado has some.

And North Salt lake(for those familiar, that's where the gas refineries are)

Nsl is 150 miles from Uintas, 300 to Colorado.

How in the hell does CWD just "pop up" in a city herd?

 

[IDbullz]

Talked to DWR during elk hunt in Utah.

South slope of Uintas has some. Along Colorado has some.

And North Salt lake(for those familiar, that's where the gas refineries are)

Nsl is 150 miles from Uintas, 300 to Colorado.

How in the hell does CWD just "pop up" in a city herd?

Ever hear of migration and movement. The Unitas to NSL is a lot closer than you suggest. In Idaho we have CWD jumping large areas then appearing in new unknown regions which never had it before. Many of the deer along the way may be somewhat naturally immune as new research suggests. This is why culling all deer is very detrimental if we’re culling the very ones whom are resistant and passing along those genes. https://www.bowhuntingmag.com/editorial/promising-new-CWD-research/476239

 

[hossblur]

Ever hear of migration and movement. The Unitas to NSL is a lot closer than you suggest. In Idaho we have CWD jumping large areas then appearing in new unknown regions which never had it before. Many of the deer along the way may be somewhat naturally immune as new research suggests. This is why culling all deer is very detrimental if we’re culling the very ones whom are resistant and passing along those genes. https://www.bowhuntingmag.com/editorial/promising-new-CWD-research/476239

South slope to Wasatch front ain't really the migration route. But even if it is, then hallelujah, Utah has entire units that are immune.

 

[jims]

There are multiple ways that prions can be moved and started in new areas miles away. CWD started in Colo and is now in whitetail herds scattered clear to the east and south.

Great article about IDbullz. Without some sort of immunity you would expect catastrophic die offs in areas prions have accumulated in the soil for 40+ years.

Hopefully game and fish agencies start considering the immunity scenario before culling and harvesting old age class bucks that likely carry the very best genetics in herds!