you might be a liberal if...

[202typical]

With apologies to Jeff Foxworthy, you just might be a liberal if...

* You're sure the Constitution explicitly guarantees the right to abortion and gay marriage, but not the right to own a handgun.

* You think Dan Quayle is the dumbest Vice-President we ever had because he believed a flash card that misspelled "potato," but think Obama is a genius despite the fact he believes we have more than 57 states.

* You'd be more upset about your favorite candidate being endorsed by the NRA than the Communist Party.

* You think the same criminals who use guns in the commission of a crime will just hand them over to comply with the law if guns are made illegal.

* You know that 86% of all income taxes are paid by the top 25% of income earners and you still feel that the rich "aren't paying their fair share of the taxes."

* You put a higher priority on oil pipelines possibly inconveniencing a few caribou than you do on lowering the price of gas for everyone in the country by drilling ANWR.

* You're worried that Osama Bin Laden might not get a fair trial if we capture him, but want George Bush thrown in prison for being too zealous in protecting us from Al-Qaeda.

* You get infuriated when you hear about the CEO of a Fortune 500 company making tens of millions of dollars, but don't see a problem with an actor, basketball player, or trial lawyer making the same amount.

* You're constantly seeing subtle, coded racism in campaign ads, but see nothing racist about blacks being promoted over more qualified white applicants because of Affirmative Action.

* You think it's obscene that oil companies are allowed to make 8.3 cents per gallon in profit with gas prices this high, but would never suggest cutting the 13 cents per gallon they pay on taxes to reduce the price of gas.

* You think George Bush is a chickenhawk because he wanted to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan despite the fact that he only served in the National Guard, but you don't think the same about Barack Obama, who has never served in the military and probably couldn't find either country on a map without help.

* You think protesting outside of abortion clinics is extremism and should be illegal, but carrying around giant puppet heads while wearing a t-shirt that compares Bush to Hitler is just exercising your First Amendment rights.

* You think the case for global warming is proven without a shadow of a doubt, but that we need another century or two worth of evidence to figure out if capitalism and free markets work better than socialism.

* You believe the best way to fix the government screwing something up in the market is with...drumroll, please...more government intervention.

* You think the first thing we should have done when Russia invaded Georgia was to take the matter to the United Nations, where Russia sits on the UN Security Council.

* You spend your days criticizing the use of private jets, SUVS, and luxurious houses that consume enormous amounts of resources and then ride in an SUV to the airport, get on your private plane, and fly home to your luxurious house.

* You have more nice things to say about countries like Cuba and France than you do about your own country.

* You think the war in Iraq is unwinnable, but victory in the war on poverty is going to happen any day now if we can just get the Democrats back in charge.

* You won't even support English as our national language, but can't seem to understand why people worry about tens of millions of illegal aliens changing our culture.

* You think censorship is absolutely wrong; except when it's applied to conservatives on college campuses or on talk radio via the fairness doctrine.

* You get more upset about an American soldier accidentally killing a civilian than you do about a terrorist deliberately blowing up a school bus full of kids.

* You think Fox News is hopelessly biased to the right, but MSNBC, CNN, NBC, ABC, and CBS call it right down the middle.

* You think the real hero of the Cold War was Mikhail Gorbachev.

* You couldn't care less about what Americans in states like Kansas or Virginia think of you, but you would be greatly upset if a Frenchman gave you a dirty look because you're an American.

* You think kids in public schools should have to watch Earth in the Balance and read Heather Has Two Mommies, but no piece of literature with the word "Jesus" on it should be allowed within a hundred yards of a school.


"dude, nothing we can say will make us like as childish/silly as the rants you post. We HAVE posted the parts, you chose to ignore them. We get it, you like soldiers that sell out their fellow soldiers for political gain, and you hate or hold in contempt those that take a stand. We get that you manage to see NOTHING but bad in Republicans, and nothing put pure and honorable intentions from fellow limp wristed libs. We got it already, now move on."
(PRO July 3, 2008)

 

[overton]

Seems accurate to me. Can't wait for pipers take on this.


Ransom

 

[proutdoors]

Sad thing is that is dead on accurate.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.

 

[piper]

Now thats some intellegent stuff, the part about the oil companys making 8 cents a gallon is classic, and after reading that it made me realize we need to sell the public lands and privatize all schools, those things are socialized,- gasp, do people know that? we need the people that run our American health care system to run the schools,now that would humble those elitist liberals, take some money out of their pockets that will bring em down a notch or two.

 

[RELH]

Piper, the liberals are already running the public school system. It's broke and no money going into the classrooms, but the elite top have plenty of money for their salary and office.
Do you have anymore brillant ideas?

RELH

 

[piper]

I have to tell you its sarcasm, a joke, just like American health care, could you imagine the school system being run by the same princible as health care, insurance companys, CEOs,lawyers,but you know how it is as long as I got mine and someone else has to pay who cares, right

 

[Willametteriveroutlaw]

>I have to tell you its
>sarcasm, a joke, just like
>American health care, could you
>imagine the school system being
>run by the same princible
>as health care, insurance companys,
>CEOs,lawyers,but you know how it
>is as long as I
>got mine and someone else
>has to pay who cares,
>right



We have the best healthcare quality in the nation. Hmmm Piss poor schools

 

[piper]

outlaw- just because you aren't the sharpest tool in the shed, doesn't mean you have to post totaly stupid comments, maybe willamette valley has the best health care in the nation, I really don't care, America as a whole has medium quality, extremely expensive health care, that causes many people to do without preventive care and is the leading cause of bankruptcies, a huge amount of money is thrown away on insurance companys,and the lawyers that go with them. money that could be spent on real health care for people
some get it for free some don't or can't pay the bills,and many people get over charged, in other words ripped off, no other industrialized country in the world would copy the American system its a well known disaster, from the two posts I have seen, you are an amazing idiot

 

[BomberBlackies]

Hey Pipe, you might reconsider your comment about the leading cause of bankruptcies....the leading cause of bankruptcies is the dumb arse people and their mortgage payments. This is according to your liberal friends at CBS, NBC etc. Talk about an idiot who supposedly knows it all. Amazing from someone that is all knowing.

 

[piper]

your right, medical bankruptcies have been overtaken by mortage bankruptcies, that shouldn't last too long

 

[NeMont]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-19-08 AT 11:42AM (MST)[p]

Piper,

Can you explain what system the American people would be happy with? I ask this in all seriousness. What country should we model a system after? Techinally the U.S. doesn't have a system, we have a market.

I have looked deeply into different countries systems and I am not certain that Americans would stand for what goes on in them.

One model that intrigues me is the Germany system where it is a quasi public insurance company called a sickness fund, they are not allowed to make a "profit" but can compete for people to sign up with them. They are allowed to pay bonuses to the CEO's and other employees of the sickness funds. The sickness funds are paid for with both public taxes and small premiums from the covered individuals as well as small copays and coinsurance amounts.

I do not like the English system as it mandates are to stringent to attempt to control cost. For instance if you are 65 or older and smoked you are not allowed to get coronary bypass surgery. Not a bad way to get people to not smoke but can you imagine an American putting up with that?

The Canadian system is working currently with their booming economy but there are still underserved rural areas and top line technology is not always available. Our MRI machine is used daily for Canadians who cannot get one there. When their economy faces a correction they will be further taxed or services will be reduced. In addition coverage is somewhat different in every Province. I don't believe people in Montana would put up with people in Florida getting alot more health care for the same price.

Also there is no way the government is going to dismantle the current employer based health insurance model. There are simply too many people and too much money invovled for even the government to bite off.

Please tell me a solution and explain how we get there. There are a lot of very capable and bright people who have worked on this for years without resolution.

Nemont

 

[overton]

Far too complicated a question Nemont.

 

[202typical]

Ssshhhh...............Pipedream is still reading it




"dude, nothing we can say will make us like as childish/silly as the rants you post. We HAVE posted the parts, you chose to ignore them. We get it, you like soldiers that sell out their fellow soldiers for political gain, and you hate or hold in contempt those that take a stand. We get that you manage to see NOTHING but bad in Republicans, and nothing put pure and honorable intentions from fellow limp wristed libs. We got it already, now move on."
(PRO July 3, 2008)

 

[202typical]

Also have any of you noticed just how lost Pipedream is with out Hdude around...............I kinda miss pipedreams follow up post after dude. You know the ones that go "Yea take that you righty" LMMFAO





"dude, nothing we can say will make us like as childish/silly as the rants you post. We HAVE posted the parts, you chose to ignore them. We get it, you like soldiers that sell out their fellow soldiers for political gain, and you hate or hold in contempt those that take a stand. We get that you manage to see NOTHING but bad in Republicans, and nothing put pure and honorable intentions from fellow limp wristed libs. We got it already, now move on."
(PRO July 3, 2008)

 

[piper]

Nemont good question, one that of course I don't know, maybe offering the American people the option of signing on to a single payer system, like Canadas, but that would still leave the indigent care problem, maybe getting the states to do the experimenting? but to get them to do something would require a federal mandate, Canada does a pretty good job on health care considering how rural the country is, Denmark and other scandinavian countrys have excellent health care systems, they are heavily taxed and are small countrys though, even Mexico has free care for the rural people and those without money, not high quality care, but at least the private clinics are not saddled with people not paying their bills, I know that no health care model is without faults, but supply and demand and other free market forces that work so well on other things, don't seem too work on health care, In my opinion many of the problems with American health care can be pinned on insurance companys, huge overhead costs and the incentive not to pay,no ones fault its just the way it is, another problem is people not paying at all, thats where most other countrys have an advantage, basically all their citizens pay into the system, health care is probably the single most important issue for me this election season because of the price of the medical bills I have paid

 

[RELH]

piper; You keep going back to the insurance companies being the big cause of high medical bills. Here in Ca. that was believed also. so a bill was passed, supported by the insurance companies, and pushed by our state Dems. It capped a limit on medical lawsuits. I believe the amount was around $ 250,000 dollars. No more of those muti million dollar payoffs for persons suing their doctors or hospital for malpractice. This was supposed to lower the costs to doctors & hospitals for medical lawsuit insurance premiums and the doctors and hospitals could pass the savings on by lowering their costs for medical treatment.
Well after several years, it did not work. No lowering of medical treatment, in fact the costs are still rising even in the so called "non profit" hospitals. Greed is too rampant and the medical field is to blame as much as the insurance companies and lawyers.
I pay just over $ 800.00 per month for medical insurance for myself and my wife after retiring, and I have not found another system that I would accept to replace my high monthly cost. If you think your liberals in congress will give you a better program, I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I would like to sell to you. I could use that money to pay my medical insurance.

RELH

 

[NeMont]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-20-08 AT 09:41AM (MST)[p]My thoughts are that nobody in the medical system either payor, provider or patients are without blame for the continued rising cost of health care. The other issue that is not discussed is that Health Care and Health Insurance are two different animals people assume they are synomous but they are not.

What is interesting is that almost all groups larger then 100 employees are self funded and just rent networks and billing adminstration from third party administrators (TPA's). Inside a self funded program any "profit" is left with the group to offset future costs. When people talk of insurance companies making huge admin margins they don't look very closely at the true numbers. Granted Insurance Companies take their pound of flesh but generally their admin load is small compared to what hospitals are charging for admin.

I think a system of forced participation may work or even a public/private partnership like Mass. has attempted to do. I know nothing will change until people come to understand that there is not unlimited health care available to everyone at less then what we are paying today. Providers will not stand for a reduction in dollars moving through the system. Look at how they scream when medicare discusses "modernizing" (which means lowering reimbursements based on quality of care and successful outcomes).

I don't believe the "indigent" are the issue as they qualify for Medicaid and the elderly qualify for Medicare, the middle class is where the burden of paying for health care is paramount. The wealthy will have the money to take care of themselves but I see the "average" worker getting squeezed fair tightly between ever rising health care costs and upward prices for almost everything else.

I am always afraid when the government is going to "help" us in this area. The last time they helped they added a HUGE amount of cost to the system without much gain.

Something will change in the next couple of years that is a given, I just hope it doesn't further bankrupt this country. If it goes anything like the medicare prescription drug coverage it will be total and complete chaos.

Nemont

 

[buckchaser]

Piper,

Have you actually been to a hospital in Mexico??? I doubt it based on you comments. I have, in La Paz Baja Sur and they suck! Old equipment, poor hygene, antiquated documentation etc. Missionary freinds I trust state that the indigenous indian population gets treated with no pain medication even during surgery. Free enterprise is the only way to be. I think the 2 areas of most concern in our health care system is friviolous lawsuits and health coverage for illegal aliens. We should set up a public clinic to treat them like they have in their country and let our citizens seek private health care as they wish.

1 Corinthians 2:2

 

[Willametteriveroutlaw]

>Nemont good question, one
>that of course I don't
>know, maybe offering the American
>people the option of signing
>on to a single payer
>system, like Canadas, but that
>would still leave the indigent
>care problem, maybe getting the
>states to do the experimenting?
>but to get them to
>do something would require a
>federal mandate, Canada does a
>pretty good job on health
>care considering how rural the
>country is, Denmark and other
>scandinavian countrys have excellent health
>care systems, they are heavily
>taxed and are small countrys
>though, even Mexico has free
>care for the rural people
>and those without money, not
>high quality care, but at
>least the private clinics are
>not saddled with people not
>paying their bills, I
>know that no health care
>model is without faults, but
>supply and demand and other
>free market forces that work
>so well on other things,
>don't seem too work on
>health care, In my opinion
>many of the problems with
>American health care can be
>pinned on insurance companys,
>huge overhead costs and the
>incentive not to pay,no ones
>fault its just the way
>it is, another problem is
>people not paying at all,
>thats where most other countrys
>have an advantage, basically all
>their citizens pay into the
>system, health care is probably
>the single most important issue
>for me this election season
>because of the price of
>the medical bills I have
>paid


The US has one of the best healthcare systems in the world as far as quality from what I have read. Ever talk to a canadian about how great there healthcare system is. I lived with one for a couple of years and they didn't have the best things to say about it.

 

[piper]

Yea, actually I have been to Canada a number of times, and you could go to any coffee shop in America and bring up health care, and listen to never ending horror stories about our health care, its the nature of the subject, the only people I have ever talked with about health care and had nothing but good things to say lived in Denmark and Holland, I think we have good quality care but we aren't really rated that high by the international health organization, if that means anything, I think the biggest problem is the cost

 

[piper]

Buckchaser I had an operation in Juarez a couple of years ago it was a private clinic and I was taken care of very well, it was my choice as the cost was about half as much as here, you hear people complain about Veterans care but the VA hospitals rate higher in customer satisfaction than our private ones, believe it or not