BONUS POINTS

[slcmuley]

Bonus Points
Lets here everybodies take on this

Should they be combined in 2012?

Why? or Why not?

Are you biased because you are at or close to max point?

How do you feel about the future hunters just coming into the game?

What should be done to correct the current point creep situation if we do not combine points? Are there other solutions besides combining the points?

I wanted to see other folks' point of view on the situation at hand.

 

[brutus]

Combine them. Everything is already on a limited draw in Utah and if there were more units to apply for that would fix the point creep. It would really help if they either had more units with quality close to the henrys or issued more tags for henrys and brought quality down to the rest of the limited entrys. Thats the only way to get that log jam unclogged.

 

[grizzly]

Combine them.

Stop the point creep. Then each hunter can choose...opportunity v. trophy.

Grizzly

 

[goofyelk]

I'm 100% for combining into a one point system..
The way it is now, hunters can apply for L/E and
general deer tags. This could very well cleat out
the the point "jam up" and point "creep" for deer..

Now, if we could figure out a way to fix the GIANT
pile up in elk points,something needs to be done there..

 

[Twoshooter]

Are you talking NR or res. If you combined points for residents and made everything limited would you still be restricted to putting in for one of elk, deer, and antelope? I personally dont see that much point creep for resident deer unless you are holding out for Henries. Noone has max of 18 anymore, one guy with 17 and 8 with 16. I would be for combining the two systems if you could put in for elk and deer but only draw one of them. There is that element of changing the rules half way through the game and giving someone who has 4 or 5 gen points and 15 deer points a free Henries tag.

 

[Daxter]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-15-11 AT 03:40PM (MST)[p]I am all about combining the point systems into one single pool of bonus points. I think it would address point creep, and I think it would make hunters choose, no more having your cake and eating it too. Do you want to hunt more often on lower quality units, or save up and have less frequent hunting opportunities on high quality units? It would make it easier for both opportunity and quality hunters to draw their preferred units. It would make a big difference on point creep, and give kids and those entering the pool with no points at least some kind of chance they may draw a tag in their lifetime. I would go so far as to say that any year a hunter gets a buck deer tag it zeros out their points. Even if it was a leftover, if you hunt bucks you start with zero points the next year. There isn't enough deer hunting opportunity to keep letting everyone get points every year.

As far as adding general unit preference points to the bonus point total, I think they should add them in, but because no general season unit takes more than 2 preference points to draw you can only transfer up to 2 preference points into the bonus point system.

Dax

There is no such thing as a sure thing in trophy mule deer hunting.

 

[PleaseDear]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-16-11 AT 05:33AM (MST)[p]+ 4 on combining them.

The whole deer appl is LE now in 2012 add the 5 existing LE units to the 29....

I would be in favore of adding the WF hunt say WF North and WF South as draw units making it 37 units to apply for from ONE point pool

I prefer Bonus with the 50/50 rule to stay in place.

Okay--keep the only apply for 1 species like it is now.

Robb

 

[Timberbuck]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-19-11 AT 11:12PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-19-11 AT 11:10?PM (MST)

Since they are getting rid of the 5 regional areas for deer the preference points should be null and void IMO.

The intent of preference points was to help in the draw for general regional tags not the previous limited entry areas.

Its not fair to people who have been building limited entry deer points IMO to combine the points. The same people who had preference points for deer could have been building limited entry deer bonus points also if that was their focus.

As an example say joe hunter has two preference points for deer after last year but has been building elk bonus points on the limited side. If they combine the points now he has two points to use as an advantage in the draw for limited deer areas he had no intent AND no option of using the preference points for.

How is this fair to people who have been building bonus points for deer.

Feel free to correct me if I am not thinking this through properly.

 

[Buckjunkie]

Maybe my vote doesn't count for much since I am a non resident, but I don't want things to change. I have been putting in for Elk for 11 years and am just now beginning to see a few tags that I have a chance at drawing. If you have been drawn and don't have the points, I can see why you would want the system changed. For those of us who have been waiting it isn't right to change the rules in the middle of the game.

My home state of Washington just changed their system. They split the draw for elk in three categories. Trophy Bull, Regular Bull and cow. If you had 12 points at the time of the split, you get 12 points for each draw. If you just drew, you get squat for each.

I like the 50/50 split to give everyone a chance, but for guys like me who can't seem to draw a tag, leave the system alone so we are garanteed a tag at some point.

 

[PleaseDear]

T-Buck....would they not use those 2 buck points if they drew on the deer draw from one of the 29/34 unit draw only permits?

I see what your are saying though.

But I certainly do not enjoy the thought of having the draw like our non-ressy draw-----


Apply for everything and draw only 1 tag.

Have ya seen the point pools on every species now in the non-ressy point pools!!!

1 and 2 point pools are out of sight! ha

Robb

 

[tinenut]

If I understand this correct it would make all Utah deer hunts limited entry. No preference points. All points would be combined into bonus points. I like the idea for a couple reasons.

1. You would have your choice, if you want to hunt bucks every year or two apply for an easier draw area. Or if you want to hold out for a possible better area you might only hunt bucks every five or ten years.

2. It would also help on the Elk draws or point creep, because if you choose to try for the buck limited entry, you will not be getting an elk point

 

[coyoteslayer]

I think I would rather keep the limited deer draw, and then go with the 29 units. They are planning on doing this right now. There is no way they are going to make you choose to put in for general deer or elk or antelope. This would be a huge mistake. If they did make all deer units under the bonus point system, but you could still put in for antelope or elk, then we are talking about some major point creep in the elk and antelope draw. All those putting in for deer will have to be added to elk or antelope. No way they are going to make all deer units limited entry with bonus points.

 

[Downrange]

If they do combine the points, they need to change the draw system like nevada's, so every choice for a hunt counts and you lose your points once you draw. The way utah is now your hunt choices mean nothing. This way they would count and every body could choose 5 diff, units they would like to hunt. Nevada has the best draw system in the western states. Your pt creep would go away if they would do it this way.

 

[BrowningRage]

Combining them works for me, I have 0 gen pnts... lol

I think that you should be able to put in for 2 species each year though. They can do a 1st, 2nd, 3rd choice like they do now, but it would be possible to put in for 1st choice elk somewhere, and 2nd choice deer somewhere else. Since all the units are basically LE, fewer tags will be given anyway... people will have to wait a few years for the 29 new "general LE" units anyway, and many years for the 5 premium LE units... Bonus points for separate species would still remain separate...

Just a thought


"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24

 

[BrowningRage]

I have another idea for hunting restriction:
Maybe your bonus point each year only counts towards the same unit in the future... Apply to Books one year, your pref point stays there if you switch to Pauns the next... And, if you switch species, you forfeit all previous bonus points...


LOL



"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24

 

[jstwnahnt]

I'm all about having my cake and eating it too...

 

[slcmuley]

I feel that combining the deer point pools alone will not affect the point creep. Let me try to explain the possible scenarios and let's look at their affect on the current point creep disaster

Scenario 1
A person has 4 points total after combining his 2 pref points from putting in for the southern region and not drawing in the last 2 years and has 2 points accumulated trying to attain a Book cliffs permit.
2012 draw scenario:
1st choice- Book Cliffs
2nd choice- San Juan
3rd choice- Zion
4th choice- Beaver
5th choice- Pine Valley

The applicant does not draw any of his choices in 2012. The draw results show that it took 3 points to even be guaranteed a Beaver deer permit. In 2013 the applicant has not had a permit in 3 years and decides to use his 5 points and be guaranteed a Beaver deer permit if he puts Beaver as his first choice in 2013

Scenario 2
A person has combined 12 points he has been holding out for the Henries.
1st choice- Henrys
2nd choice- Box Elder

He draws his 2nd choice, hunts a lower quality area and receives another BP for not drawing his first choice

So here's the questions that arise
"Should you receive another point if you do not draw your first choice?"
"Should any permit awarded take your points whether its your 1st, 2nd, or 5th choice?"
Answer yes to question #2 and this is how we get rid of the point creep.
What are your thoughts on this?

 

[eyecrazy]

the state is not going to loose all of the money that we hunters but in thier general fund. All of the money we pay for licences goes into a general fund not a wildlife fund. for what ever they need it for like roads or snow plows then wildlife get's what is left.
if they make it so half of us only hunt every 5 years that is to big of dent in that general fund.
If all the money went to wildlife then i think we would see a change in the points system but as it stand's I don't see them willing to lose that much money.

 

[PleaseDear]

slc---
I agree, if ya draw any of your 5 choices---after the point pools are combined to 1 Bonus point pool-----that you use your points if ya draw.

IF---you get skunded on all of your 5 choices----and there happens to be some leftover tags---you DO NOT use your points for picking up a Leftover tag.

Reason all tags get sold and the 'revenue' stays in tack with the 13,00 tags being taken away-----I think 'revenue' will be a major stratagy for the DWR/Con Org's.

But then again---I am just a fellow BoyScout Biologist!

Robb

 

[Downrange]

There will be no pt creep if you lose your bonus pts if you draw any of your choices. That is how Nevada does it and it works good.

 

[rutnbuck]

What the heck is all this talk about combining points? This is the first I have heard of such a thing. I don't know if I understad it or what it is. Enlighten me please. Ok so I have been putting in faithfully for limited buck. So some joker who has say 3 bonus and 3 prefrence points combines them all of a sudden and now has more limited points then I do if I only have say 6. What the hell is combining points?

Rutnbuck

 

[PleaseDear]

Yo --Rut.....

The only reason most anyone has low LE Deer Points is because they have already drawn some other species of LE tag.....

Say LE Elk and/or LE Antelope.....

Hence the low LE points......for those types....

You drawn any other LE tags?

I could use some help manyana (which really means not today---I learned that from watching the Spanish channels at night..)

I got a mix of Poly to paint on some Log build work and some Canadian------(Brown Liquor)

I could use some help brushing or Mixing----you in?

Robb

 

[rutnbuck]

Robb your spanish sucks. Like my english. But thanks! Where do I have to go to get brown liquor? Have brush will travel. When you planning on doing this? I am stuck in Cheyenne working. Maybe Manyana will come home.
Yeah I am just getting over my wait period Elk been putting in for deer the last 5 plus had a few deer from back when we could apply for all think 8 total. Now What? I think it is my year for sheep

Rutnbuck

 

[Taft]

I'd hate to see points combined. I know as a non-resident with 16 bonus points I will likely never draw a henries tag. It would be tough to see even more folks move ahead of me based on general deer preference points. I'm 47 years old and I still fantasize about drawing the tag by my mid 70's if I luck out.
Garth

 

[bayside]

By saying that someone would draw their 2nd choice, you're assuming that that area did not fill up? They only draw 2nd choices if there's extra tags after the draw. Or did I miss something?

 

[tstewy]

Love the idea it would help a little with point creep.By combining them you still would have a chance at a second choice but it would be alot smaller. I dont think it would do anything the henries point creep but it might have an impact on the books and other less trophey units. Just like colorado units with better tags take along time but units with less quality you can draw every year.

 

[Downrange]

Nevada draws by application and then goes through all your choices. For example you could draw your 5th choice say area 10 before some body else, even if that person had area 10 as a 1st choice. Since it is by application they will go through all of your choices. If your 1st choice doesn't have any permits left, they will go to your 2nd choice. If there are no permits left for your 2nd choice, they go to your 3rd choice. If there is a permit left for your 3rd choice you will get that permit. So your choices all mean something and you lose your bonus pts for drawing a permit. Like i said before it is the best draw system in the western states. Everybody that puts in has a chance to draw a tag. If you have accumulated lots of bonus pts for a species, Nevada squares those pts. example if you have 5 pts for deer 5x5 is 25 you will have 25 chances to draw a low number for your application. If you have 10 pts for deer 10 x 10 is 100, you will have 100 chance to draw a low number for you application. It is by far the best bonus pt system in the western states. I wish all of the states would do there draw system like nevada. There is hardly any pt creep.

 

[Shooter150]

This question is simple. If you already have alot of points you would say no to combining them. If you don't have alot of points then you want a change because it favors you.

The way the system is set up you can hunt a general tag almost every year. Why would we want to water down good units like the henry's? I would rather wait 15 years to hunt there than have it be like a general unit.