Mule Deer population

booner76 · Dec 9, 2011

LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-11 AT 09:07AM (MST)[p]Been reading the recent posts about the declining mule deer population in the west and thought you guys would find this e-mail I received interesting.
I agree with those that preach that we ALL need to not shoot the does in certain (any) areas.
I also agree with the Cat hunters that claim the cats are getting a raw deal. It is my belief that the biggest problem in the west is the over population of yotes out there, and the over harvesting of does. My opinion is just that, my opinion. You guys know better because you live out there in Gods country and see it first hand.
Anyway, I wish you all a very MERRY CHRISTMAS.
I hope you find the photos interesting, a real problem here in WI.

GotBowAz · Dec 9, 2011

Ok, I'll ask...

What e-mail and what photo"s?

This thread is worthless without pic's! ha ha ha LOL

GBA

booner76 · Dec 9, 2011

Sorry, took me a while to get photos loaded.

coyote · Dec 9, 2011

It's a huge problem here in CO. There are to many bears as well they eat a ton of fawns.

booner76 · Dec 9, 2011

yeah, we have the same problem here, we call it the "other problem" besides wolves eating everything, Elk, Deer, Fox etc.
Now we have tons of bear one of the highest populations of black bear in the nation now and it still takes a resident 9 years to draw a tag.
I just thought it was interesting, we all mention fawns at the spring hearings, even here on MM but in reality the 35 to 45lb coyotes are not just killing fawns, even mature 150-160 class bucks are at risk now.

Buckhunter1 · Dec 9, 2011

Wow thanx for the disturbing pictures. Im going to make my kids look at the pictures and then were going to go out and hunt coyotes this weekend. BH1

Deer1975 · Dec 9, 2011

Good post. Thanks for sharing!

tailchasers · Dec 9, 2011

The bear population and how they impact the deer herd is crazy. Until I researched more into the bear/deer relationship I would have never guessed the impact beers have on fawn survival. From what I have been able to gather is an area with an good deer herd will be more affected by a strong bear population than a strong coyote population. The damn bears will out compete the dogs. Not what I expected.

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling
up anyway."

booner76 · Dec 9, 2011

Both do a # on the fawns for sure, I think the difference is the amount of adult bred does coyotes kill while bears are in hibernation.
I dont know for sure, but I find alot of adult deer carcasses on my trap lines that coyotes are killing when the snow gets deep and the temps drop.

DidIDraw · Dec 9, 2011

There are dozens of opinions about the decrease in the deer populations but I think we should all take some time every year to hunt coyotes - it certainly can't hurt and it gives us an excuse to get outdoors and do some hunting and it can be a great way to introduce our kids to hunting.

Last year on a 3rd season deer hunt in CO I saw two fresh fawn kills by coyotes. Those could have been the 170 bucks we'd be hunting in a few years. I didn't concentrate any time on the coyotes because we were busy trying to find some bucks but I saw them every day. I'd be happy to give directions for anyone that wants to hunt some coyotes near Delta CO.

brutus54 · Dec 9, 2011

Wow those's are some eye opening pic's. Nature at work can be ugly. Thanks for the reminder.

MTBackcountry · Dec 9, 2011

Coyotes certainly kill some deer, but the mule deer decline is way more complicated than that.

Subdivisions on winter range, high density oil and gas development, not enough wildfires, too many wildfires, invasive weeds, competition with elk, and predators are all taking their toll...

booner76 · Dec 9, 2011

yeah I would have to agree, the problem and solution is far deeper for you guys out in the west.

coyote · Dec 9, 2011

Another thing is a Mountain Lion will kill a deer feed on it. Then the coyotes will eat the rest of it so when the lion comes back to feed some more the deer is gone forceing the lion to go kill another deer. And bobcats kill fawns and weak deer as well. My neighbor even witnessed two golden eagles take down a deer.

coyote · Dec 9, 2011

DidIDraw I couln't figure out how to PM you but would love directions to a coyote spot near Delta. Can't have to many coyote calling spots

timothymarks · Dec 9, 2011

well written. If more people went out and dumped a few coyotes we would be doing alot better. I missed a oppurtunity last sunday while looking for cat tracks. only had my 22 rifle in my front seat and my .300 was in the back of my durango and i came across a brute of a coyote at about 100 yards. easy shot with my rifle but i blew it with the .22. Last year I saw some coyotes up on my father in laws dry farms and drove up. they were surounding a group of does and fawns probably 8-10 deer eating on some alfalfa that had been sat out. You have to think about another aspect of this too, they would have killed a fawn had i not showed up. But it doesnt stop there, the stress they put on these deer causes does to abort. Causes malnutrition, then you get a good storm and the deer just die. its a bad deal.

booner76 · Dec 9, 2011

I and some friends witnessed some eagles dive bombing deer one time in North Dakota, didnt understand what in the world they were doing couldnt imagine they were gonna try and eat one.
I found a mutilated fox one time while coyote huntin assumed a coyote killed it but when I investigated it....there were no tracks but there was definately a chase, I noticed what looked to me like a turkey strutt zone at the kill, and bunches of hide pulled off, my dad later told me that when he was a kid eagles would come and kill and eat fox and coyotes that were inhis traps http://youtu.be/_W8wRkWFMLs I found this link interesting.

booner76 · Dec 10, 2011

Has there ever been coyote hunting contests in Utah???
That is one VERY affective way to kill a ton of yotes.
They use them in eastern Montana, the Dakotas, and other states as well, if not somebody out there should organize one, get some cash prizes and get the killers in there if the G&f dept wont do anything. Two years ago the crew that won a contest I was at killed just over eighty in two days!!!
Think how many muleys they saved.

theox · Dec 10, 2011

wow i had no idea coyotes could actually take out a healthy full grown deer. I have seen coyotes going after antelope fawns and the antelope doe will beat the living hel1 out of a coyote. i have seen it several times. if an antelope can fend off coyotes why cant a mature deer?

bonner76 yes utah has coyote contests and we also have incentives such as 20$ bounties per coyote.

booner76 · Dec 10, 2011

I guess that is the reason for posting these pics, alot of hunters have no idea what coyotes can and do do to a deer herd.
Alot of opinions are thrown around on here, and some of the threads on here make me cringe because in many cases the solution to a problem is right in front of us, but we cant see it. You guys need to poison, trap, just frick'n kill the yotes and stop shooting does. I have to believe that a HUGE part of your deer mngt would be solved.
What makes Utah so different from north and south dakota, Nebraska, Montana etc....I understand the big country. But if we as sportsman want it done, this is something that CAN get done.
If yotes do this to a whitetail....imagine how much easier it is for them to do it to a mule deer.
Go to Cody WY sometime, I read on a different thread, "Why cant mule deer adapt to urban sprawl or development"? the answer...they can and do. Your deer are being killed by cars, poachers, lions, weather, hunters that cant control themselves but a large part is coyotes and I have to also believe.....wolves in the north probably play a role, large or small.
I imagine I will get lit up for this but this is my opinion.