Youth Rifle Advise

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IDhunter

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I have hunted for many years and have shot a variaty of rifles. My oldest son will be turning 12 in December and will be able to hunt big game next year. I never thought choosing a rifle for him would be to hard, but he is only about 100 pounds so he can't shoot my 30-06 and I would like to get him something with a little more knockdown than a 243. I know there are some very knowledgable people on here, so I thought I would ask for some opinions on what rifle to look at. As I said he is small and I will have to buy him a rifle with a shortened stock. He shoots a rossi single shot 20 guage for birds and handles the kick it has just fine. Any advice on a rifle that would work for an elk and not not him too far backwards would be appreciated. I have been leaning towards a 270, a 257 roberts, or a 25-06, but I know there are other guns out there that I don't know about since I mainly like the "good ole calibers". I want something that the ammo for is not too hard to find. I reload so if the ammo is a little hard to find it would be ok, as long as I can find it when I need it. Thanks for any advice.
IDhunter
 
Well for what its worth, I was in your shoes about a year and a half ago with a youth. I searched high and low for info and made spread sheets with ballistics info and waivered back and forth between a 25-06, 257 the 308 and the 7mm-08 (all fine rifles IMHO) but finally settled on the .260 Rem. Its a 308 case necked down to .264 (6.5 mm) and if you reload the ammo is readily available, if you dont reload the ammo is on the shelf for about 20~ a box. Beware that you probably wont find it on the shelf at Jerrys hardware store in downtown podunkville if you are going out of town to hunt. I reload and if I am going out of town I dont leave without less than 50 rds. I ended up buying a second 260 this year when the second boy turned 12 (cant have two kids hunting elk at the same time with one rifle now can we). The first one was a Ruger M77 MkII, the second was a Remington Model 7. I actually think the Ruger is a better rifle.

I hope some of this info was useful, but if you do a little research and make ballistics tables with all the calibers you are considering at the distances you will likely be shooting at,I think the paper will answer the question for you, I know it did for me. I simply did an energy and velocity comparison of the different calibers and picked a flat shooter that had good knockdown capabilities out to 300 yds.

Mike
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Mike is absolutly right. You could not go wrong with this calibur. I did the same thing for my 9 year old daughter and she weighd less than 100lbs. Now it cost a little more to get the stock right for her. I went to a gun maker and they fixed us right up. Good choice.

"We MUST Hunt"
 
Take the 270 out of the formula as its percieved recoil is as bad as your 06 or worse normally.

260 is a good choice. As is 7/08. But watch both in lightweight guns. 7x57 is a good old standby and one that doesn't seem to buck much either.

A thing to consider is muzzle brake. Always have ear protection but it does wonders. Or go to the reduced recoil or download practice ammo and step up to hunting later on. Worst thing is to develop a fear of recoil OR noise.

Rugers are good rifles. But when the bedding goes south they suck. IMHO much worse than savage, rem, win. And again, IMHO, I don't like bedding the ruger. Seems like more hassle than any other. Doesn't help me any that ole bill has sold us to the anti gunners a few times either.
 
My son who is now 14, started out with a .257 Ackley. He just saved up enough money this last summer to buy a 30-06 Savage 110. He only weighs about 115 lbs. and has no problem shooting the 06 with 150 gr loads. Recoil management of moderate calibers is a mental thing. I have seen 110 pound women shoot .338 mags and larger. If he is going to hunt elk I would go with a 7mm-08 as a minimum and preferably a .280 or 06.

Phantom Hunter
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-04-04 AT 08:02AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-04-04 AT 08:00?AM (MST)

The .260 would be a great choice but I would also look at the Winchester .243 short mag. Its a screamer, my best friends 10 year old son smacked his second deer last weekend and it went straight down. He also killed a blacktail with it two weeks ago. There is very little recoil and while it is a light load I think that with the light recoil the shot placement could be better due to less flinching. I would hate to get a kid scared of his rifle because it pounds him everytime he pulls the trigger. This may not be the case with some kids but something to think about anyway.

Here is a link:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/243wssm.htm
Drum
 
Purchased the 7mm/08 a few years ago for my wife. Shes killed a cow elk a cougar and an antelope with it and it has preformed great every time. Limited to a few loads from the factory in the 140 to 150 grain region but there are plenty of slugs available to reload with....
 
Phantom

I agree recoil is mental management. But with kids starting out there are so many other pressures, that not all can handle the mental aspect of being kicked. We don't want to push it if we are not for sure.

I"m super glad your son can handle the 06. I think most could but we always start our kids on 22s and work upwards a bit at a time. You find some that want to stop at 243 and others shoot the mags easy.

I always tell myself, its gonnna kick anyway, why not hit what I"m aiming at or not pull the trigger at all....

Jeff
 
We bought my wife a winchester model 70 featherweight in .280 remington. For a few extra dollars the gun shop cut an inch or two off the stock and it fits her great. Plenty of power, she can handle the recoil fine, shells are relatively easy to find and there is a good range of bullet weights to choose from. When she is sighting it in she uses a recoil pad that straps onto her shoulder. When hunting, she never feels the shot.

Just my .02 cents worth.
 
Use this chart for reference. Lists bullet weight, rifle weight, and recoil associated with both. Many calibers to choose from and a few suprises. A pachymayer decelerator pad does A LOT of good. I highly recommend it. Many bige bore shooters (myself included) swear by them. My .444 Marlin shooting 300 grain loads is fun to shoot. (after the pad install) It also is ported so muzzle blast is loud but makes recoil and follow up shots easier to handle.

Remember, they might be twelve and little now, but they will grow up quick and want a "bigger" caliber. If you choose, say the .308, then you can install the said pad, and spend time on the range helping him control the flinch. We all get it. We laughed so hard when I gave my father his .45-70 to shoot at a target. I intentionally had no round in it. You should have seen him flinch at the trigger pull! It was fun and a lesson for all of us there. By the way, I'm over thirty and weigh about 130 when wet. I can shoot most of em because I was taught to shoot them. The pain is only temporary and gives me a chuckle!

Hope this helps!
http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

Chef
"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"
 
Chef

Decelarator pads are super. Have one on my 10Ga and on my wifes lightweight 308.

Have a new Simms pad on my new MZ. Its as good if not better.

Strictly FYI

Jeff
 
Thanks for all the info. I knew I could count on the people on this site. My son shot a 223 a couple years ago when I thought he was ready, he got scoped pretty good so he is very leary of rifles. Thats why I want one with a little less recoil. I will do some checking on the rifles you all have listed. Thanks again.
IDhunter
 
Jeff,

Agree not all can handle the same amount of recoil. I just assumed that the kids had been started on .22's and other small calibers. My kids both shot thousands of .22 rounds before graduating to centerfire rounds. The point is most folks can learn to shoot most calibers if they are taught right and use appropriat recoil pads at the bench. One of the fastest ways to learn a flinch is to shoot too many rounds in row off the bench without a recoil management system of some sort. My experience is that kids can/will learn to shoot calibers with sufficient power to cleanly take whatever game they are hunting if they are taught properly. My daughter has great fun harassing the boys about the calibers they shoot. She prefers my 7mm Rem mag, most of them shoot .243, .25-06 etc. they have gotten used to her by now and really don't mess with a 5'11' girl who drives a diesel 4x4 and shoot a 7mag.

Phantom Hunter
 
Here is another vote for the .260 Remington. You can get them in the M700 or the M7. The M7 should fit just about right for a youth. I got this for my daughter and will run 100 or 125 Noslers through it for her depending on which the gun likes better. Go up to 140s for game bigger than deer. If Nosler come out with the Accubond in a 140, that would be the ticket.

This is the one we have http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/700mtnls.htm

If money grows on trees at your place, look at the Ti version
http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/700titanium.htm

Here is the M7
http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/m7ss.htm
 
First of all it's really important to understand just because a person is small doesn't mean they can't handle recoil!!!!. Some of the smallest women will out shoot the biggest guys with heavy calibers simply because they don't try to man handle the rifle. They wiil flow with the recoil rather then fight it. That being said, I am a huge 270 fanatic. If he handles a 20 gauge fine he won't notice the slight increase in recoil in a 270. It's not a huge jump. I would go with the 270 and he will have a rifle for life....
 
I'm with Kingfish on this one. The 270 is a great all arround rifle. Some say that it is on the small side for elk, but I have been hunting them sences I was 16 with my 270 not a problem one with it yet.

I was also reading an artical acouple weeks ago where Remington is introducing some reduced loades for the 270. These reduced load were designed with the youth in mind. There trying to keep the recoil to a mimimum but keep the POA them same as there regular loads.

400bull
 
I'm with the guys who recommended the Remington .260. I purchased a Model 7 .260 for my daughter. She weighs no more than 80 pounds. I ordered it with the synthetic stock in standard length, then contacted Remington and they gave me a great deal on a youth size wood stock. I can replace the youth stock with the standard length synthetic when she grows a little. My daugher killed her first mule deer with the .260 this year. It's a great shooting gun.
 
I would go with the 7mm-08

A terrific performer and I've seen it cleanly kill a big bull moose, elk, deer, sheep and goats up here in British Columbia with 140 gr bullets. The gun was a Remington Mountain Rifle BDL I think.

Its great and doesn't kick like the other guns.
 
I was just in the same scenario with my 12 year old son. I bought him a Weatherby vanguard in .270. At first he was a little sensitive to the recoil but I quickly switched him to the new Federal-managed recoil bullets during practice times. Now he is very comfortable with the gun. I slapped a bipod on it for him and he is even more comfortable with it. The bipod made a huge difference for him. Definitely consider the Bipod and the new manged recoil bullets for practice and for shooting Deer. Elk will still need the full strength ammo, though.
 

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