Eniat & Swakane late hunts

B

Bearhunter

Guest
I was over there this weekend, just driving around in the Swakane looking for a campsite and areas to get out of the truck and hunt. It was foggy the hole time I was there. I seen 3 decent bucks nothing huge but they all looked to be rutted up, though I dont know if the does are suspectable yet though. Does anyone feel the same but I think the big migration hasnt happened yet, with the first push of snow I think the timid deer came out but with the mild weather so far I think the rest will move with the next big snow. What do you guys think what did you see this weekend. Ill be over there on Friday setting up camp.
 
You are exactly right! Spent 4 days over there last weekend and 5 more this weekend. Deer where ruttin' really hard last weekend with some left over snow still around from the weeks before. This week, bucks really honkered down. Does and fawns where movin', and even some of the younger bucks. The last three days was nothing but FOG! It was supposed to start snowing over there last night and tonight. As long as the fog lifts, with the new snow, conditions will be perfect.
 
I was over on Sunday. The fog sucked although it does take some pressure off of the deer. The key is to be there when it lifts.
The deer are usually less spooky and often can be found in the open. Without fresh snow its hard to tell how many deer are in the area although the skids had alot of fresh track with some big buck tracks thrown in.

The Swakane is a huge unit so the deer are somewhere in it.
It usually takes a big snow to knock the really big ones down low for good although I think that they roam quite aways down when the rut is on looking for receptive does. Once the ruts over and if the snow is not deep, I think they sometimes head back up.

The one good thing about a lack of snow is that if you do spot a bruiser your chances of making a good stalk a greatly improved.
Nothing like crunchy snow to limit your options.

On Sunday I saw a yearling doe that was 90% white with black spots and grey around its eyes and ears. Pretty cool looking.
 
What effect will this last minute snow have? Do you think it will push more migratories down? I'm hoping the rut is still on. What do you guys think?
 
BuckRut....it will definately bring in more migratory bucks. I think alot of those deer in the surrounding areas have kind of been hanging around waiting for more weather. I don't think it could have come at a better time for the bowhunters.

ramslam....was your cousin in Swakane?
 
My brother and I are going to be hunting Swakane tommorrow. I can't wait to feel the rush when I let that first(and hopefully only) arrow fly! I'm going to hold out for a nice buck, since I have more time to hunt this year. Let it snow! I think there are quite a few deer that have yet to come down. How many other guys are planning to hunt swakane? I am expecting a zoo. Good luck guys.
 
I got back from the Swakane tonight and was wondering how everyone did. I hope better than us. Pretty crappy hunting. We did not see any deer hanging in any of the camps and there were a ton of people in that unit. Anybody do any better?
Shane
 
pretty slow out there this weekend. sat we saw one legel buck that i passed up, i hope that was a smart move and sun. we saw 7 legel bucks and i tell you what they were stacked in the spot we were in. I am going up there every night after work to see if i can connect with one of these bucks. Think snow we need some.
 
Tough hunting, everything was so frozen where I was at that you couldn't begin to put a stalk on anything. We saw 10 bucks total, 4 were legal, 2 were shooters. I had a 20" 6x6 at 30 yards full draw, but I decided to pass. He wasn't quite big enough this early in the season. Hope I don't regret it if we don't get the snow we need to push the big boys down. I'll be back over there on thursday to try again.
 
Well I passed up 4 more last night, the biggest being a 16 inch 3 point. I am not seing the big one yet I would hate to fill my tag and then we get a foot of snow. I am going again tonight and every night after work so maybe a shooter will ghostly appear.
 
duckfvr, so what size buck are you holding out for? Will you shoot a dink if it gets down to the end of the season and you haven't got one yet?
 
My slot size will slowly dimenish as the season closes but right now i would like to shoot a 165 ish or better buck. Its seems like every year i wait for a big buck and every year i shoot your average 17 - 18 inch 3 or 4 point and some day i will shoot a wall mounter but until then i will be selective until the lat week and then i will just fill my tag. I have gotten a dear pretty much every year and i have never shot a big buck but my time will come as it does for every one.
 
I'm sitting on the raffle tag and just spent a four day weekend in the Manson, Slide Ridge, Entiat, Swakane, Chiwawa and Mission Units. I glassed over 100 deer, but only 14 bucks. And only two of them would have been legal during the general season. Nothing even close to being a shooter on the raffle tag!

Most of the deer I saw were so high up on the mountain we were sucking on an oxygen bottle while we watched them. I don't know how much snow it takes to push them down, but there isn't near enough. You guys need some snow bad!

I'm hoping there will be enough weather to put the finishing touches on the migration before I go back to fill my raffle tag for good. If anybody can't close the deal on a monster buck with their bow and doesn't mind sharing, I'd appreciate any help I could get (things weren't very encouraging this past weekend).

Thanks and good luck these next few weeks.

THINK WHITE!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-04 AT 00:52AM (MST)[p]Don't mean to be negative guys, but like I said in an earlier post, a lot of the big boys are sitting in taxidermy shops due to an early snow and late rifle season. I still have an archery tag in hand and will be out the next four days, I've seen one upper caliber buck at this point. By now however, in years past, I've cruised around while everybody else was archery hunting and either filmed or photographed several monsters. Do you guys "really" think the big boys will not come down because there is not enough snow at this point? I can tell you this as a biologist, NOTHING would stop a mature buck from reaching the breeding grounds of the rut (snow or no snow) except a 180gr nosler tip and that's what's happened to quite a few of the mature bucks this year. Sure, there's deer scattered due to the lack of snow, but don't even think in your wildest dreams they're extremely far when the rut is supposedly going on. I plan on placing my tag on one of them myself, but it's gonna be more like hunting the early 90's then the last few years. With that being said, the best deer I saw this weekend was in the 180 class, unfortunately my bow doesn't shoot two miles. Snow will help make them move a little more and make them more visible because of that, BUT don't expect a huge influx of deer for those of you who visit these areas on occassion or a few weekends each year. Just another reason many guys are seeing high volumes of deer (like before, but does) and not the bucks. I can't remember a general rifle hunt locally that had so many 175+ deer taken by guys in pick-ups, and 4 wheelers. I'm not guessing on this, I've seen and witnessed! On that note, hunt very, very hard and you maybe one of the few this year that can say they harvested a buck or even a big buck with stick and string. My perspective is I love it, it'll be more rewarding knowing the conditions and will probably drive the weaker of our herd to another method of hunting. "Survival of the fittest, in a way". By the way I saw a lot of hunters myself on my way into the woods and when I came back out, I was able to get a complete update of the Seahawks game from several considering they never left their trucks, I would, as I'm sure those of you who "really" hunt would appreciate that if they were to do that for me over the Turkey day break again. Oh, they also complained about not seeing any deer, my complaint was I almost got ran over by a buck at 10 ft as he ran in and grunted in respnse to a doe in estrus call. I LOVE THIS GAME!!!!!!

OH! Mule Deer Crazy if your patient and wait tell the pressure let's up and not neccesarily for the snow to come, I may have some advice that give's you a real possiblity of killing a record book buck as I'm sure several other people around here do. I admire you for hunting at this time though and making it a sporting hunt, not when the deer are pinned down by 3 ft. of snow. Good luck!
 
Well i saw 2 bucks last night that would gross in the 180s or better but they were in the 500 to 700 yard range and there was a pretty little sign in between me and the deer that said NO TRESPASSING damit jim that figures. I did see a buck that would go around 180 to 190 in the entiat unit last weekend and I garintee he is still there nobody hunting right there I wish I had an entiat tag.I have only seen 3 big bucks this hole year and thats pretty sad i did see allot of nice bucks shot in the general, but we wont talk about that.
 
Mule Deer Crazy, what are you r expectations anyways? I know you have the raffle tag and should shoot a monster, but what are your minimiums. Did you get my PM? I was surprised I didn't here from you.
 
Boneaddict,

I tried to e-mail you back - must not have come through if you didn't get anything? Been having trouble with the computer (technology is wonderful ain't it)!

I don't necessarily have a score I'm shooting for, though I'd like to get a monster on that tag. At this point I'm going to wait for the archery hunters to finish up before heading back over. I'd hate to see "THE" buck across a canyon that some archery hunters were watching but couldn't get to and shoot it out from under them so to speak (had that scenario last weekend, only the buck wasn't the one). If I was an archer that would really piss me off, even if I couldn't get an arrow in him!

Anyways, I plan on hunting about ten days. Figured I'd spend the first week trying to find a hog (190+?) and then the last three going after something else I saw during the first week if I can't find a monster. I always figured when I found the right one I'd know it!

Good luck to all. I have the patience, but I'd sure like a little luck to go with it!
 
Hunted Swakane opening weekend. There were lots of guys but most of them stayed on the roads. I spent both days hiking back into more secluded canyons and saw around 30 to 50 does and 6 or 7 bucks each day. Mostly smaller ones but 2 shooters. I agree with the previous comment that you have to hike it to see more deer. The large bucks tend to end up in the same canyons year after year. You just have to find those canyons. I heard from a guy hunting the early archery entiat and they are seeing lots of does and small bucks but not alot of big ones. Another factor in seeing less bucks is the lack of snow. Without that stark backdrop its tougher to spot a bedded or even feeding deer.

I'm hunting Swakane Friday and Saturday but I've got a late archery entiat permit and plan to hunt the last 6 days . Hopefully some bigger deer will move down.

My hats off to Mule_Deer_Crazy for holding off during the archery season. Good ethics.
 
Anybody kill any Thanksgiving Day bucks? How about the weather, things getting any whiter?

Good Luck!
 
Snow started about 10 AM this morning where I live (South Wenatchee 4 miles out of town towards Mission ridge. Same elevation, or alittle lower than the Potatoe and Mud Creek Areas) and hasn't let up. It's just starting to lay a sheet of white in our yard. Hopefully will go up tomorrow to try and photo some bucks.


Michael~All Gods creatures welcome... right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy.
 
I was up there all day and it hasn't made much of a difference yet, did see 2 dinks, a 3 or 4 pt 20 inch buck and possibly one that may of been bigger but never gave us a good look. Tomorrow is a day of reckoning for these areas in my book and a little indication on how hard the previous seasons affected the late season.
 
Why is tomorrow the day of reckoning? I can't see that the early seasons had much bearing on the late archery hunts. Didn't even sound like the November rifle hunt was as good as normal because of the nice weather?

Anyways, anxious to see what your day of reckoning brings!

Good Luck!
 
When you said you were up there all day, what area is up there the Entiat or the Swakane or both? Just curious. I am curious to see how slow the Entiat tag holders hunts are. Maybe it is a blessing I did not draw this year. I still have my preference points for next year and hopefully the weather is better.
Shane
 
Shane,

I spent four days glassing all over from Manson to Mission. Had my gun with me, but mostly just scouting for coming back in mid-December on the raffle tag. That block between Navarre Coulee and the Entiat River is the best looking winter range I've seen in a long time. I suspect when the deer are finally down that'd be a prime spot for finding a big buck.

Everybody puts so much in spring/summer feed, but logic would lead me to believe that if a buck has awesome winter forage he's getting through the winter less stressed and has a jump start on the spring/summer growth? Either way I can't hardly stand sitting around here wwaiting anymore.

Good Luck and save me one little buck out there.
 
Hey Mule Deer Crazy,
I have hunted the area quite a bit and I thought the same thing. With the fires years ago the range has about as much feed on it as it is going to get.I talked to the biologist for the area and was wondering with all that feed and our winters the winter kill would have to be low for quite a while but he said the deer don't winter where everyone is hunting but much lower. By January I guess they are down by the river if we get the weather. I've always wanted to head over with the camera but want to get a spotting scope adaptor for my camera so I am not bugging them.I bet your tag is eating a whole in your pocket. It would be nice to get that tag when you are retired so you could spend three months hunting for a dandy. I would take it whenever I could get it though. Your best bet is December anyways. I am heading back over the 5-8th and I will keep you posted when I get back. I am wondering how the people there now are doing? It won't be as good as last year because of the weather but I am wondering how many deer will winter down low after the snows hit. I am not pessimistic about the herd but think it is more of a combination of the weather and the early rut that contributes to people not seeing the number of good bucks as last year. I am sure the good success rate last year and during the last week of the rifle season has made some change but not to the extent some people think.The controlled tag rifle hunters did not do to good this year and last year it was almost a 95% success rate for those areas so that should make somewhat of a difference. I am hoping the buck to doe ratio is still good anyways! I have faith in the Biologist for that area and think he is doing a good job. Hopefully the counts by the time this winter is over reflects that. Check your in box also.
Shane
 
Hey Bone,
I couldn't go this weekend but I am going to head over Saturday night and stay through the end of the season. I'll let you know how I did when I get back. I don't know any archery hunters that have taken a buck this late season on the east side. Hopefully that changes soon.
Shane
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-04 AT 08:38PM (MST)[p]I got a scouting report from my dad from the methow, and he isn't seeing much at all. Of course much of it is from the road, but we usually still pick up some pretty nice bucks on Thanksgiving weekend. He did get a little snow, but not much.
Good Luck and keep me posted!
 
Just got news from a good friend that he took a 27 inch 3x4 tonight. Blew a stalk on a 5x4 that he said was 26 or 27 but had pop can bases. Out of the swakane side.

Garrett
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-04 AT 11:40PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-04 AT 11:36?PM (MST)

Mule Deer Crazy
I meant that even with the minimal amount of snow that we got you would either see more "average" bucks or even good bucks. It's hard for me to not put emotion into this next statement, but if you think that the number of decent to big bucks taken in the last week of the general hunt did not effect the quality of deer were seeing in terms of trophy potential you're kidding yourself...no offense intended but I know these deer and where they should be...snow or no snow at this time of year and without naming exact locations in terms of the Swakane Unit...They're not there. I'm going to go back a couple of weeks and reiterate that no amount of snow is going to bring in a huge influx of deer, maybe a few more and perhaps some "bruisers" but I'm going to express something that is perhaps obvious...hunting seasons don't keep big bucks out of an area... it puts them in hiding maybe... but their instinct to breed (the rut) overrides just about everything else. Now, to add another kink.. yes, the majority of the rut is finished, and some of those big bucks have retreated but not to the depths of snow or woods most people want to dream up. For those of us that frequent the area and talk daily to people who live here it would be neat to see the number of bucks that exceeded the 25 inch, 160 class during the general hunt. In hunting this area from 8000 ft. to the Columbia River in the last 15 years with much intensity, 1996 and 1992(1991?) are the only years I remember seeing that many good bucks taken during the general season, also early snow years. Am I mad about this? No, it's reality, does it have a huge impact on our herd, No! Will we see less mature bucks next year,Yes! Remember our 3pt or better rule perhaps reached it's most potential last year and this year(7 and 8 yr. old bucks) since it began in 1997 and barring we don't have a bad winter we should be fine but down the next couple of years. My first year of deer archery hunting with a bow instead of a camera over the Thanksgiving Day break has turned up the lowest number of mature bucks I've seen since I started doing it in 1997. Muley Deer Crazy what did your four days turn up? No hard feelings intended. Also I'm curious as to what biologist your speaking of? I happen to be one myself. And please don't post any harsh comments about the lack of big bucks when you kill that monster in December, I'll be out there too at that time like I have been for years seeing what's survived the season, I can only say I expect to see less. Remember my claims are based on my observations not feelings, like any good biological analysis it has some repititons to back it up, but it is true...I'm generalizing. I hope I'm wrong, but if I'm not it doesn't devestate anything it might mean we have to look a little more carefully on how free we are with the deer season dates. Remember, 5 days were added, any deer (one!) was an impact in comparison to the previous year, and we can both agree more than one deer was killed the 25th thru the 29th. Now Kill a Big One !! I'm still trying. Let a 20 inch 4x4 walk with no stalk Saturday.

One other tidbit, the Entiat has not received the early snow to the degree that the Mission and Swakane did. How could that be? I can only say the storms did not go that way in October.
 
well i saw about 30 legel bucks this last 4 days. I stalked some missed some and cryed some but all and all it was a fun weekend. I have the last week off so hopefully i can shoot a little straiter and get some meat in the freezer. I am now meat hunting no more antler seeker,when it comes down to it I can't eat the horns. Good luck 2 all
 
Bornforhorns,

I guess I just ain't too bright then, cause I can drive the "winter range" after new years and glass several hundred deer without even getting out of the truck. I spent four days glassing about 1,000 times that much acreage and barely saw 150 deer and only 14 of those were bucks. If the deer are on the winter range as you so emphatically suggest, you guys must have had about a 99 percent die-off last year?

You're a biologist for who? The WDFW biologist in Wenatchee said they will count 600 deer per hour until they run out of money on their wintering flights! And at nearly 30 bucks per 100 does (POST SEASON) they have stats that are considered good for pre-season counts.

Maybe I'm not exactly sure where you were going with your post?
 
MDC, the deer aren't on the winter range yet,(I mean, not all, of course some are) BFH was talking about them being on the breeding grounds. Winter range is just a fraction of that. YOu do NOT want to be hunting winter range right now, the bigger bucks will commonly be holed up with a little harem well above it.

How does the raffle tag work?? Does it let you hunt when there is no other season on? I'm just curious, we dont have one here in MT?

Good Luck man. A 190 buck is definitely something to shoot for if you can hunt in late December!
 
There is deer lots of deer, the 3 point rule has helped our herd not hurt it. If you cant find deer call me up and i will drive you to one of my orchards and show what the big bucks have done already. This is actually the earliest they have been in there. No all the big bucks arent down yet, why would they be, there isnt hardly any snow, no reason to come down. When the first big snow hits, it will be like a switch. Dont get discouraged, they will be there, they always are. Hold out for the big one!!!

If you work for the wenatchee office, then you are the same people that said in all the meetings, we have so many deer in the entiat and swakane units that we will give out all these permits for late rifle, then open up the entiat for archery now you closed it to permit only but your still giving out 300 permits. You even have a later Muzz permit hunt in the chiwawa unit. So there is plenty of deer. maybe you should reduce the permits in these areas so the deer dont get pushed all over the place.

Garrett
 
Hornseeker,

If that's what BFH was saying, then I fully agree. I didn't pick up on his comment about them being in a transitional zone between summer and winter ranges. But they certainly weren't on their winter ranges a couple weeks ago.

The raffle tag runs Sept. 1st to Dec. 31st, any unit, any weapon. And don't worry WAmuleyhunter, we're going to do our best to find a big one!
 
I farted around above Manson on thursday evening and friday morning. Saw a few bucks but nothing worth shooting. If they aint outside their ears, let em go! I wound up taking an ok 3pt whitie over in Ferry county. And yes, he was outside his ears.
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Eric
 
Man, what a tag! I'm sure BFH will respond for himself, but thats sorta how I took it.

So how much time are you going to dedicate to it? Are you planning a week or two in mid Dec or the last couple weeks or what?

Do you have any info or any ideas about hunting further north? There is no doubt that you can run into a nice buck in the Swak, nicer in the Entiat, but I dont think you'll match what you can find up north. I'd be tempted to try and talk with a bio or two up in northern Ferry and Okanogan counties and I also think I'd take a road trip and glass some up around Concunully.

Good Luck Man, sure hope you kill a pig.
 
I have about two weeks in December set aside if it comes to that. I didn't get much input on hunting up north, but tried to do a lot of research and get lots of feedback. A guy did mention Conconully, but it's a huge area to figure out without a narrower search window. I'm trying not to chase rainbows and burn all my time running around instead of hunting? It's actually pretty hard to stay focused when you can hunt the whole state!
 
There's no doubt you are right about that!

Have you messed around in the Des yet? Moses lake?
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-29-04 AT 05:01PM (MST)[p]I worked for the department for about 5 years, got moved over to the westside in an office setting, didn't like it(indoors, rain), my work was also my hobby, too political. Call me crazy but I now teach Science and coach baseball, hunt, fish and love it. Hornseeker, took it correctly, I call it the "staging area", just above wintering grounds. Why do you bring up after New Years? I don't get it....of course all the deer are packed in there then. And as far as the stats on the post winter observations (30/100)..... that is strictly on winter grounds ..... that was last year ( my point exactly) and I can guarantee you I'll be checking their flight counts this year post season for my own satisfaction..... it will be less than last year. Duckfever, how many of those bucks were mature bucks? Don't take this personal guys is the key, first of all can we agree that a considerable amount of mature bucks were taken in the added 5 days of the general season(due to early snow/rut)? If not... end of discussion (not argument). Is that a result for fewer mature bucks in the archery season(harvest or observed) probably, all you have to do is talk to the people out there besides myself, many would agree. Last of all will there be more deer/big bucks with more snow, of course! BUT not to the degree you've seen in previous years. I've seen more does than I can count for a month in the staging area......BUT, and I stress, are being chased by smaller bucks. You will get your big buck MDC you just won't see as many as in previous years.
I don't question your intelligence, I'm not being a smartmouth I was trying to add some reason to why there are 42 post with a majority of them stating that there's a good chance we trimmed the herd of mature deer. My opinion only.

WAmuleyhunter, we may not need to reduce the number of tags (although it couldn't hurt I agree) but rather keep the season shorter as not to run the risk of having an early snow in back to back years where everybody cashes in and we annihilate the bucks as we did in the 70's and 80's where seasons commonly ran after Halloween.
I think liberal seasons (as we have) can be there, if there timely as to provide opportunity(maybe not the best) with some success. You don't have to kill a deer to have a successful season.

I think my point of view has been addressed and I won't kick a dead horse. NOW LET'S SEE SOME PICTURES of permit and archery bucks. MDC if you wanna talk sometime look up my profile, I'm in the Wenatchee phone book. Don't call me on the weekends my perserverance in killing a big archery buck has overwhelmed me, I'm signing off on this topic.
 
You're right, enough said. Winter time will tell the tale. Either way I'm impatiently looking forward my trip over there. I just hope I get to use my snow chains!

Hornseeker,

I hit the Desert early hoping to find a big buck in a bachelor group, but couldn't get it done. I wish I knew exactly what those bucks did and where they hid, cause I was all over the place? Oh well, it's fun just getting out and learning new country. No deer, but a couple coyotes won't be having a good Christmas this year!

And my wife has either got a new boyfriend or bought herself something really big for Christmas cause she keeps saying I should spend the whole month in Wenatchee to maximize my chance with the raffle tag. She's never been that sweet on me spending four weeks in other states hunting, so...? Heck, who am I to argue! Maybe she's starting to warm up to hunting after all. I wonder if she'll let me hang that big buck above the bed when it comes back from the taxidermist:)
 
LOL, dont think twice about it. Atleast until you get your big buck then you can start wondering why she let you leave!!!
 
Killed my dear last Sunday, hes not a whopper but any buck with the bow is a good one. Hes a 3x3 with eyequards and very narly bases. Not very wide but pretty tall. Made a perfect shot and he only went less than ten yards, I was up in the swakane
 
Sounds good, did you guys finally get some snow to help concentrate the deer a little?
 
BearHunter
Congrats on the buck and on making a quick clean kill!

MDC

It snowed some in the Swakane unit Saturday but only an inch or two and only up on the higher slopes. It sure made spotting the deer easier. In looking across at the Entiat unit it appeared they didn't get any snow. Looks more promising over the next week. I'm heading over Thursday to hunt the Entiat for the last 7 days.
 
Good luck, I'll already be over about the end of the archery season, but let us know how you did.
 
Congrats Bearhunter! Any branch antler buck in Washington is a good buck in my opinion. Any suggestions for this weekend? I am heading over on Friday for a few days.
 
The hunting pressure in Swakane canyon was nill this week.Sure the week-end will change that.Still lots of action around my place in the Chiwawa as far as seeing animals,so the big migrants are probrobly still in the old Nason area as far as the stevens pass herd goes.Maybe one day the game dept will open this area for all users again.(dreaming)...GR
 
Anybody do any better this weekend? Sounds like we're getting some weather, so things should be picking up. Can't hardly stand waiting any longer with the raffle tag, but don't want to mess up any archers chasing a monster buck around. Again, if anybody leaves a monster on the mountain and wouldn't mind sharing a little information, I'd sure appreciate it.

Good luck this last week.
 
Finally started getting into some animals in the upper reaches of Hay and Nahaum canyons.Just enough snow to make hunting fine.GR
 
Were they the big migratories we've been waiting for, or just the resident herd concentrated in an area and easier to see because of the snow? How much snow was there? I plan on going over to give it one last effort and was wondering how much snow was on the ridge next to Chumstick Mtn. GR
 
Hey guys just talked to a buddy of mine. He had a late archery permit in the entiat unit. Killed a small buck but that isnt the point to the story. there were some biologists and a game warden the last few days up there runing around counting deer. They have come to some early conclusions that they think they have over harvested the deer......no shi*!!!!! They arent finding very many bucks go figure. they think they may need to do something. Is what they told my buddy. I know people killed deer but nothing like before. These last 2 years there have been way to many permits for rifle and archery. Get ready for some changes. Sad to see such an amazing herd get miss managed time and time again. I guess we manage for money not animals.
 
WAmuleyhunter,
I'm hope that this isn't the first time you've concluded that WA manages for dollars and not quality/animals. This should only confirm what I hope you have always suspected/known. I've lived in this state for 33 of my 36 years, and feel that our G&F Dept. could be doing alot better job of managing our animals. I apply for tags in two to four states besides WA every year, and know that the quality of animals in those states is going to be better, due in part to those states management practices. I believe, that the only reason WA does not limit the number of general season tags issued, is the desire to bring in as many dollars as possible. I think we could follow the lead of states such as OR, UT, AZ, CO, NV, and WY in limiting the number of tags issued, and see a positive impact in a few short years to the numbers/quality of our deer herds. These same practices could also be applied to our elk herds for the same results. Just my .02 cents.

Scott/Couesbitten
 
Ahmen brother, i agree with you totally, and i have known for a while too. its a sad sad situation.

Garrett
 
What money????? All wildlife funds go into the general fund, or Lockes bank account. They just suck, has nothing to do with the greenback. I'm hoping Rossi can do a better job.
 
Actually the wildlife funds don't go into the general fund, though when the wildlife funds are up they try to cut more of the general funds.

It isn't so much that WDFW is after quantity not quality, it's the fact that we have this stupid thing called public input. And I hate to say it guys, but we here on MM aren't the moral majority! The majority of the general public wants to go out and shoot a deer. They aren't trophy hunting in the slightest, any deer is a good deer (heck, the 3-point minimum in eastern WA didn't make them happy either, though it was that or fewer hunt days)!

Thus, when the Department says they're going to manage based on public input, they're just greasing the squeaky wheel. And we sure don't want to put anything up to a public vote, we already had the No Hounds and No Bear Baiting handed to us on a platter. Unfortunately us sportsmen aren't organized enough or a big enough user group to leverage a big shift in game management throughout the state.

But look at the bright side, at least now when we kill a trophy buck in WY we get to completely bone it out, cut off the skull plate and make sure all soft tissue is removed from skull and cape before bringing it back into WA. I heard they conducted meat locker and taxidermy checks last month and issued several citations to hunters that ignored the new Chronic Wasting Disease rule.

Don't worry, we're in good hands?
 
WAMuleyhunter: I think your "friend" has a lively fantasy life - have him say hello to Elvis for me. We don't do composition surveys until after the season - and haven't been running around in the Entiat or anywhere else, counting deer and panicking about "making a mistake". Wish I had a flock of bios to command at my disposal, as your post suggests. A few helicopters would be handy too. We'll classify deer after the season, as usual. Could I have made a mistake? Possibly. Do I believe that's the case? No. Did I hunt Swakane Friday and find scattered deer in the dry grass and sunshine, above the fog at 5,000', at much lower densities than last year when they were all concentrated by snow below 3,000' during the season? Yes. Was the hunting tough? Yes. Did I get a shot? No. Did I see only 5 deer in a basin where I saw 30 last year? Yes. Do I think this is a herd health problem? No. Do I think the Chelan herd (GMUs 244-251) is in excellent shape? Yes. Is the hunting better when migratory deer are concentrated? Yes. Do I make season recommendations based on revenues? No. Are my recommendations always taken? No. Is that a good thing? Probably, in some cases. Gentlemen, have a great tail end of the season, remember why you hunt, pick your spot and know your limits. If you're done for the year, look forward to next year. Beau
 
Beau,

I am glad finally a person from are area has made himself known none the less. We have different opinions but that is what makes this great. Sorry to hear you didnt fill your tag.

I am amussed how fast you dismiss my "friend" and that i cant find Elivis :). If you would like his name, wild id number, place of birth, home address and when where and what i will gladly give it too you. Maybe it wasnt a survey or something that was going on for work. maybe it was somebody that you work with or another biologist and game warden that were hunting like your self he spoke with. Assumptions are a horrible mistake in some cases.

I was just stating waht i was told. And what i was told is what i posted earlier. It is Dec. 6th, history would show that there should be a lot more deer down than this am i right? i think so. Could it be cause it has been warming and no snow to move deer. Yes. Could all these late rifle hunters and archery guys not seeing deer like every other year be a fluke? yes. Do i think it is a fluke? No.

If you read all these post on here and on other threads you will see that most had one heck of a time finding deer like we are all use to seeing. That is just a small sample. Could there be more that feel this way yes and is there some that found their deer and took a nice buck yes. I have seen those pictures and talk to some of those people also.

Just my thoughts. Good luck to you next year i am sure i will see you at one of the open meetings/talk forums things that you guys have.

Garrett
 
WaMuleyHunter, why is it on a different thread(Entiat Buck) you sarcastically were mocking people who said there were no deer(to quote:"are crying") yet on this post you support that fact from a couple peoples opinions that there is indeed no deer?

ansolynn, I too was at that elevation in the Swakane and saw one guy where I was(perhaps you), very few deer and one cougar. Anyways, I can agree with everything you said with this exception.... would you agree that there is a good chance more mature bucks were killed this year due to multiple factors, 1) being early snow, 2) being 5 more days to hunt, 3)early rut/perhaps to the increased number of big bucks over the last couple of years? I'm not trying to catch you on something, just interested in your way of thinking.

You may not of read some earlier post and you don't have to, I would just add that there's a good chance the above circumstances may apply to our hunting grounds now. As I said earlier... does this devastate our hunting? No. Could we be in for a couple lean years? Good chance I think. Will we recover? probably fast provided there is not back to back deadly winters. There's still plenty of deer, just fewer mature bucks. Hopefully the does were bred by those big boys who have passed on to "wild blue meat locker"

AND THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION! Do I want limited entry hunting so that I only get to hunt once every two years if I'm lucky, because I increase my chances to kill a trophy because I'm a trohy hunter and I think the WDFW is driven by money and not biology, etc... ANSWER: ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! I THINK THE SIMPLE ANSWER IS.. WE HAVE LESS BIG BUCKS FOR NEXT YEAR(2005) BECAUSE WE HAD AN ABUNDANCE LAST YEAR(2003), WHICH WARRANTED MORE DAYS/TAGS THIS YEAR(2004). WE GOT BURNED IF YOU WANNA CALL IT THAT BY THE AFOREMENTIONED 3 REASONS. IT HAPPENS! NEXT TIME THE PUBLIC CRIES ABOUT SEASONS BECAUSE OF THEIR OWN GREED THEY SHOULD THINK OF THE POSSIBLE CONSEQUENCES AND THANK THEIR LUCKY STARS THEY LIVE HERE TO HUNT EVERY YEAR, YOU COULD GO SOMEPLACE ELSE TO HUNT YOU KNOW. DEER HUNTING SHOULD NOT BE DESIGNED AROUND TROPHY HUNTERS, BUT A STABLE POPULATION. THE SAME MANAGEMENT TECHNIQUE (3PT. OR BETTER) COMBINED WITH FEWER HUNTING DAYS THAT BROUGHT OUR HERD TO UNPRECEDENTED GLORY DAYS, MAY..(I STRESS) HAVE BROUGHT IT DOWN ALSO IN ADDITION TO THE ADDED DAYS. WERE GOING TO BE FINE THOUGH. I LIKE OUR STATE AND SEASON'S FOR THE MOST PART, THOSE OF YOU WHO LIKE TO PLAY MONDAY MORNING BIOLOGIST CAN HUNT THOSE OTHER STATES YOU CLAIM DO EVERYTHING RIGHT!
 
Hi Garrett, I don't need your friend's info - thanks anyway. Since all we're hunting is bucks - and have hunted exclusively since 1997 in these areas, with extremely mild winters - I'd be a whole lot more concerned if we were seeing very high deer numbers/density, but low buck numbers. What I'm seeing and hearing is low DEER numbers relative to last year, and I have no reason to expect there's been a population die-off; in fact, just the opposite, I think the population has been increasing nicely this past few years. I looked at quite a few of the bucks taken this fall - over 100 - and can tell you that antler growth was pretty impressive on the younger bucks for their age, and some of the younger mature bucks were absolute jaw droppers; some of the 170-180s class harvested bucks were only 3-4 year old bucks. There were older bucks too, of course.

I suspect between this year's early rut onset and longer season, and lack of migrants available at lower elevations during rifle and archery permit hunts, resident bucks have been harvested pretty heavily, while migrants are primarily still on transitional ranges and experienced little harvest pressure. You are absolutely right about what one should expect to see by December 6; however, Mission Ridge ski area can usually open the first week of December too, and they've had to delay opening this fall.

I don't pretend to have all the answers, but if the Department was actually panicking and reacting, I'm pretty sure I'd be in the loop. Beau

PS - Mule_Deer_Crazy, the handle's a long story!
 
Beau,

Thank you again for sheding some light. I appreciate your input and i respect what you have to say. You are suppose to know a lot more than i do, its your job!! you lucky guy. I think what you are saying about the early rut is all true and played a big role in what we are seeing now. I am sure maybe after this snow we are recieving now that it will be a whole new ball game when i got up into some of these areas this weekend. Thank you again.
And yes there were definitly some great looking deer taken this year.

PS is there any way you can get me some more bonus points :) LOL

Garrett
 
In my opinion the chelan/wenatchee deer herd populations are not down. The big bucks know where they get pressured and why would the migrate down to those areas until mother nature makes them. The big boys do get big for a reason, and from the last three years over there it seems that the truly monster muleys are not seen until late into the season or after it has already closed. The weather hasnt been severe enough to push all the deer out of there high county haunts. Just look at the North Cross cascade pass it was still open as of yesterday, I cant remember when it was open still this late in the year, when havent had the normal snowfall that statistics show for this time of year. Some of the deer migrated through after the first rush of snow in the early season but not all of them. Boneaddict is this what you are seeing in the Twisp river drainage and a lot of deer still up in the transistioning grounds in the Methow, I would almost bet on it. Also after driving through the Eniat it sure seemed like a lot of the permit holders where just simply road hunting this is not a good way to get a fell for the herd and find the big bucks by hiding behind the heater. I know most everybody on here dosnt hunt that way but I seen a lot of guys doing it in the Eniat. Not to say I havent done my share of it but unless the bucks are rutting the big boys generally stay away from the roads and hunting pressure. My 2 cents.
 
Hi Garrett, actually, YES - I do know how you can maybe get some more bonus points. WDFW has a reward program for turning in poachers; however, it is not just money, the individual who turns in hard evidence leading to a big game poaching conviction may be awarded up to 10 points for the species of their choice. Far better than cash I say, and a real shame I can't participate (darn those ethical conflicts). Just kidding, that would not be right. Perhaps a project for after I retire..

A couple ways to do this. The labor-easy, emotionally anguishing way is to turn in that buddy/neighbor/coworker/in-law/relative whose poaching ways you have disliked (but not reported), and who you are finally fed up with enough that you're willing to take the peer pressure outcome. MOST of us know one or more of these folks. It's NOT enough to pass on a verbal tip without some additional evidence ("Joe Schlabotny's a poaching SOB" doesn't cut it. "It's January 5, and Joe S. has a fresh deer in the back of his pickup, WA license plate 105148A, parked at 3030 Energy Lane" - that works.) We've got good game cops, and they depend a great deal on information from sportsmen. If you can provide evidence the informed officer can "discover" without needing you as a source, you can even remain anonymous; you get the points, and Joe'll never know how that @#$^& wildlife officer happened to look through the window of his pickup canopy and see the deer.

The other way is a lot more labor-intensive, but VERY emotionally gratifying. If you like to go out on the winter range and watch bucks anyway, it's not even that much of a chore. Cruise the roads until you find a good buck within rifle shot of the road. Instead of getting as close a look as you can, back off to an inconspicuous location as far away as possible where you can watch the road and the buck with a good quality spotting scope. In the last 11+ years working for WY and now WA, I've done this MANY times. Only seen the buck/bull poached a handful of times, but boy is it gratifying. The most important pieces of information are: 1) be able to find the location again, after you contact a GW; 2) GET THE VEHICLE PLATE NUMBER. The more details the better, but those are the minimums. DON'T make contact at all - these SOBs are dangerous. Usually, you can drive past them going the opposite way and get the plate #, if you can't get it from your vantage.

If you can provide a factual written statement to the effect of: "At 3:30pm January 5, I was watching a 4x4 mule deer buck west of the Notellum Ridge Road bridge over Buck Creek. A two-tone gray 1987-91 Ford Pickup, WA license number 882567, was headed north on Notellum Ridge Road and stopped on the bridge. I observed a person point a rifle out the passenger side window, heard a single shot, and saw the buck fall. A heavyset man with a grey beard and glasses, wearing a navy blue stocking cap, green jacket and blue jeans, exited the passenger side. The driver, a taller, slender clean-shaven man wearing a brown jacket and blue jeans, also exited. Both subjects ran over to the buck, cut off the head, and carried it back to the truck, where they put the head inside the toolbox on the passenger side. They then drove off, headed north on Notellum Ridge Road" - you'll get all 10 points!

I know you were just kidding, but we've all got to get more vigilant about self-policing the slobs out of our ranks. If you can get some drawing advantage for doing so, even better.

I'll hop off my soap box now. You might think the scenario absurd - I assure you this plays out many times all over mule deer winter ranges, every year. OK, NOW I'll hop down.
 
Beau,

Those are a couple very good ideas. And i am glad you clarified the getting points for turning in poaching. Always heard rumors but never knew anybody that got them that way.

Good to know. Thank you again and i would love to catch someone in the act.

Garrett
 

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