Packing Out Elk Question?

B

BigShot

Guest
I have been fortunate enough to pack a few elk out with cooperative cool weather and able to get them to roads, trails, within the day. Mostly rifle seasons in CO.

My question is this year will be doing an Archery Elk in CO in mid-Sept. We will be hiking on foot a good ways. If we are blessed enough to fill our tags (just two of us), and the weather is hot, warm, etc, what is the best way for us to store/keep the meat from spoilage etc.

Are camp will be app. 6 miles as the crow flies from nearest road. Any advise or tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
 
Keep the meat in the shade at all times, putting it near a stream always helps as it is cooler there, let it air out during the nite to chill and maybe put it in a sleeping bag during the day to help it stay cool.

get it off the mountain as quick as possible.

Maybe get a packer to pack it out. quarter it up and hanging then find cell reception and call in the packer to come get it.
 
May sound obvious, but, get the hide off of it. Are you packing it our on your back??

If so, bone it out and hang it in pillow cases in like 30lb packages in the shade. If it is in the shade all day and the evenings get down in the 50s you will be in good shape for several days.

Small packages that will cool quickly will be helpful. I like Pillow cases because normally they are cheap (your wife has some she no longer uses) you can more easily balance out a pack load, and they are easy to hang.
 
That should work for you then. Also, you or your buddy can keep hunting if you can make sure it stays in the shade.

one elk you and your buddy can make it out in 2 trips that includes your gear 3 if you want to take it easy. 2 elk and now you may consider a packer.

I have done elk by myself boned out and it is not fun after the first couple miles.
 
i prefer afternoon hunts during archery elk season because if you kill an afternoon bull and dress and skin the same evening then the cool night usually allows you to pack out cold meat the next day. make sure you open the pelvis completely and also open the shoulders between the hump if it is a bull. dont cut into the spinal cord. and yes, get all the hide off the meat!!!
 
You've got about 24 hours to get that thing out of there at best. Unless it's real cold you better plan on boning it out and start hiking. The other issue can be the flys. Try taking some pepper with you. I used this in Alaska and it really helped. We still had flys laying eggs on the meat sacks. It can get pretty gross. All the other above mentioned ideas are right on.
 
Hello There BigShot!

It does my heart good to see someone ask this question honestly and openly on this forum and it is asked far too seldom.
Why do I say that?
Because there are damn few people out there that are avid, responsible bow hunters that want to admit to how much ELK meat they lose the farther they get from vehicle access.
We could debate this until the end of time but I will simply suggest this: Take a prime cut of your favorite steak, thaw it to room temp, and leave it FOR TWO + DAYS in the coolest place you know of in the high country in September (35+ degrees at night/ 70-80 degrees during the day avg.)I'm talking averages here.
In western Colorado, where I have most of my elk hunting experience, the bulls run about 600-700 lbs "on the hoof" (some run bigger, most don't!). That usually translates into about 250-350 lbs of packaged meat.
Be honest,,,,
How much can you carry for 4-6 miles, in rough terrain, at 8000+ ft elevation?
You tell us how far you want to pack an elk without horses, or 3-5 "buddies"?

Elkchaser
 
Bigshot,

Think about replies 7 and 8. They are gold. You may get lucky and get some cooler weather, maybe not. The Shaded side of North facing slopes is going to be your coolest spot.

best of Luck,

beanman
 
I would look at two hunting forums: Pristine Adventures and The Alaska Outdoor directory. Run search functions on meat care or make a post.

Larry Barrett of Pristine Adventures has written and research meat care in Alaska during late August and September. Tempetures in the interior of Alaska during moose season can be in the 70's and it can be 5 days plus before one is able to get out of the field. Here a free article published by Pristine Adventures there e mail address and phones numbers. Call Larry before sheep season starts 8/10 and he is a very good and helpful person. There is much more than what is written here.


Why Use Citric Acid on Game Meat

Click Here to Download a PDF version of this article

The use of citric acid on game meat is a relatively new idea. Doug Drum of Indian Valley Meats in Indian, Alaska is the first person I know to have used it for this purpose. He developed its use in a product called "Game Saver."

This powder is simply a hefty dose of citric acid that can be reconstituted in water and applied to the surface of game meat as it is removed from the carcass. Citric acid is preferred over any other acid simply because it is safe for human consumption. In fact, food-grade citric acid is widely used as a preserving compound for fruits and vegetables. However, the scientific background which illustrates how this stuff works for hunters is not readily available. We have had to more or less trust in the wisdom of the product manufacturer.

That's not good enough for me. I have experienced varying results with the use of citric acid on game meat. I began to realize that the concentrations of the mixture and maintenance doses are critical to achieve the desired results. More on this later.

Today, there are a number of businesses that sell commercial-grade citric acid powder and tout it as a game saver. While doing the research for my own benefit, I came up with some interesting facts that helped me understand why and how to use citric acid for preserving the quality of wild game meat. I put this short article together based on the results of this study. In it I will discuss why and how hunters should use citric acid on game meat in the field.

It's all about the pH level
The term pH (or potential of Hydrogen) is used to express the degree of acidity of a substance. The pH scale is a quantitative way of expressing the active acid or alkali concentration of a solution. As the acid concentration decreases, the pH increases. At pH 7 the acid ( H3O+) and base ( OH- ) concentrations are equal. This is called the neutral point. The pH scale represents the number of places the decimal point is moved to the left of one in expressing the acid concentration, and each pH unit represents a tenfold change in H3O+ (acid) or OH- (alkaline base) concentration. For example, a solution at pH 6 is 10 times more concentrated in acid ions than a solution at pH 7. So what does all this scientific jargon mean? Well, let's carry that one step further and explain what it means to hunters.

Since we hunters are dealing with flesh and blood in the field, our goal is to keep flies and maggots off of our harvest, as well as to reduce the likelihood of bacterial growth. The pH level of the game meat determines the rate and level of negative results (i.e., maggots, bacteria, and spoilage). This will become more clear as we discuss why we use citric acid.

While the following example is rather grotesque, it illustrates how important the pH levels of animal flesh are. It sheds light on the extremes of decomposition that can occur with all game animals after the harvest. I'm sure that most hunters have at least seen bad things happen to good meat -- such as what happens to a carcass on the side of the road when it's allowed to remain in the heat. To the untrained eye, the effects are severe bloating and an infestation of maggots, but an understanding of what is happening behind the scenes and within the flesh can help us prevent this kind of waste in our big game harvests.

Bacteria, protozoa, microorganisms, maggots, mold, and mildew all require certain pH levels to survive. All of these living things continuously threaten the edible quality of our game meat after the harvest. Since blood has nearly the same pH as pure water (neutral pH 7 - 7.5), it becomes important to understand how the pH scale will help us understand, finally, why each of these organisms readily thrive on dead meat. And the longer and stronger we defend against them the better our game meat will taste once it is prepared for the table.

Flies
The blowfly is one of the first threats to our harvest because it quickly locates our kill site and begins to deposit eggs onto exposed meat surfaces. Within 24 to 48 hours those eggs transform into maggot larvae, which quickly become hungry, crawling maggots if allowed to remain. It is interesting to learn that even flies are sensitive to acid (pH levels). Some observers have suggested that maggot larvae require a pH environment higher than 6 to survive. The preferred range for blowflies to land on any surface is 6.5 to 8, but the higher the pH the better for them because maggots not only feed on meat but also on bacterial growth, and they thrive on the effects this growth has on decomposing flesh. Therefore, the more acidic (lower pH) the meat surface, the better the prevention of flies and maggots.

Giardiasis
Giardia is an organism that causes stomach problems and gastrointestinal irritation in humans when infected. The problem with this protozoan is that it is commonly found in Alaska's watersheds. It is most common in feces of animals like beaver, wolves, or even moose, and infects water sources when the animal deposits an infected stool into the water.

It is reasonable to believe that if our game meat comes in contact with Giardia -infected water, we then have a small chance of being infected ourselves after consuming that meat. While I've never heard of a single case to prove this belief, we must entertain the thought of the possibility and do what we can to prevent such an occurrence.

Surprisingly, even Giardia requires a certain pH to survive. It has been proven that Giardiasis becomes inactive in acidic environments, but exact levels are not known. However, what I have read suggests that the required "doses" of Giardia strong enough to infect most humans is not found on surfaces with a pH of 5 or lower.


Bacteria and Microorganisms
The variety of bacteria and other microorganisms that readily thrive on ill-guarded game meat is large. However, the effects are easily described by spoiled meat. Once again, pH levels determine to what extent bacteria and microorganisms can survive. Studies on compost material and goat carcasses revealed that breakdown of animal tissue is fostered when the pH is 6.5 - 8, but the rate of decomposition slows drastically with a pH of 5.5 and lower. However, you can't discuss bacterial growth and microorganisms without mentioning the other contributing factors that provide a perfect environment: moisture and heat.

Moisture
Moisture levels also determine the rate and level of bacterial growth, as water provides a perfect (neutral pH) environment for growing and spreading microorganisms. While it is nearly impossible to judge the percentage of moisture on the surface of our game meat, it is known that levels below 15% severely slow the rate of bacterial development. Therefore, it is clear that our goal is to reduce the amount of moisture in and around our game bags and meat. Simply, less moisture means slower growth of bacteria and microorganisms. With a drier environment, citric acid becomes even more effective in the prevention of bacterial growth, because we can create an acidic environment as a barrier of resistance against these microbial offenders.

Heat
We hunters know that we must keep game meat cool and dry, among other things. And while surface pH levels are critical for slowing the rate of bacterial growth, the temperature ranges and percentage of moisture also determine rates and levels of decomposition (spoilage). There are a couple of types of microorganisms that are defined by temperature ranges in which they thrive: mesophilic and thermophilic.

Mesophilic microorganisms are those that thrive in temperatures ranging from 50? to 105? F and thermophilic microorganisms prefer temperatures greater than 105? F. Therefore, the greater the meat temperature and the length of time it remains warm will determine the rate and level of bacterial growth down the line. Mesophilic microorganisms are the most common troublemakers we battle when the animal quarters are quickly removed from the carcass and rapidly cooled by removing the heat source (animal entrails and core body temperatures).

However, the length of time that it takes to remove the meat is important, such as when animals are lost for many hours before being found by the hunter. In warmer ambient temperatures, this scenario could mean disaster for the edible quality of that game meat, since thermophilic microorganisms are more aggressive than mesophilic. Meat left on the carcass remains at temperatures exceeding 105? F, as the natural post mortem process generates cellular heat with no method of cooling. Therefore, the longer meat remains on the carcass the greater the rate and level of bacterial growth and souring (spoilage).

All this discussion of heat and moisture simply illustrates the importance of initial steps that we must perform to prevent bacterial growth and development (spoilage), which include: 1) rapidly lowering the meat temperatures, 2) maintaining the meat at the lowest temperatures possible, and 3) using citric acid to provide an acidic environment.

Target effectiveness
The term "target effectiveness" is merely one I've chosen to define the pH level of our game meat that we should strive to achieve by the application of citric acid. After reviewing each of the contributing factors of game meat "spoilage," it is evident that pH 5 or lower can deter flies and slow bacterial growth and development on game meat. However, I believe it is safer to target pH 2 - 4 for a stronger barrier against many microorganisms. It is also important to stress it is futile to use citric acid without strict adherence to the basic principles of keeping game meat COOL, DRY, and CLEAN. The use of citric acid merely adds to the levels of protection we hunters create by diligence and commitment to these important rules.

When and How to Use Citric Acid
I recommend using citric acid immediately once game meat becomes exposed to the outside environment. I make it a practice to have a small spray bottle in my field dressing kit, which allows me to mix the citric powder and water to the desired concentration. I have it readily available while making the initial cuts to the animal, and while skinning back the hide and exposing the meat it is easy to spray all surfaces with a liberal layer of concentrated citric acid mixture.

The exact mixture ratio of citric acid powder to water is a matter of some dispute. I have found that Indian Valley Meats and Alaskan Game and Gourmet in Anchorage, Alaska recommends adequate concentrations of this powder, which have proven in my experience to be more effective against flies and obvious bacterial development than other brands. However, each company recommends a different mixture ratio. I have determined that the ratio varies with each manufacturer's citric blend, so it's somewhat difficult to pinpoint the most effective ratio of citric acid to water unless each brand is tested with a pH meter. With each company's blend, I have found that 1 oz powder to 1 qt water is most effective at achieving an initial pH of <3. Moreover, reapplying citric acid spray is crucial if hunters wish to maintain an adequate level of protection.

Reapplication
How often to reapply citric acid depends greatly on several factors: 1) moisture levels, 2) citric brand (concentration), and 3) mixture ratio (citric acid to water).

The safest method is to carry along a pH tester, which can be purchased at most pharmaceutical stores. Simply use the test strip to swab numerous points of the surface of your game meat and compare the results to the pH scale on the side of the bottle. This color scale indicates the acidity level of the test strip, which coincides with that of the surface area, thereby indicating the need for reapplication of citric acid spray. Remember that the target pH level is 2-4. However, if you don't want to go that far, simply reapply every day and every time game meat gets wet, using a highly concentrated mixture.

Game Bag Wash
Some experts suggest that hunters presoak each game bag prior to going afield. This is believed to help guard against flies and maggots. While this is may be true, I have found that it is nearly impossible to achieve the desired effective range (pH <5) to actually keep flies from landing and searching for holes in the bags.

Moreover, this method may imply to some hunters that if they choose to presoak their game bags they will not need to use the citric acid spray in the field. This is misleading. In fact, presoaked bags are useless if the wrong type of bag is chosen, as with cheese cloth-type game bags that tear easily. If the presoaked bag tears and game meat is not adequately dosed with citric acid, flies and bacteria will attack the meat. If hunters want to presoak their game bags, great! However, it is necessary to thoroughly cover every surface of the game meat as soon as it is removed from the carcass.

-Larry Bartlett
Author / Wilderness Guide



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Why Use Citric Acid on Game Meat

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Take along some string and hang pieces of the meat in trees until you get it packed out. If it was me and I didn't have horses I would find someone to bring up some horses and pack it out for $150 - $200. The head and antlers are a pain to haul out on your back also.The way I look at it, for $200 to get it packed out your still going to end up with about $500 if you were to buy it, of good eating elk meat that didn't get ruined. Good luck.
 
What I do is have some light cloth game bags that stay in my pack and when something is on the groound we skin, quarter and hang it as quickly as possible.
One idea that came to mind was after the meat had cooled (next morning) double bag the meat in a large trash bag, and place it in the creek or stream to keep it cold like a refrigerater. Now I have not yet tried this and maybe it's a flop but I thought that if you used better quality trash bags and doubled them up it might buy you a few days. Another idea was to keep a larger plastic tote at camp and do the same thing, place the tote in the water (not under) and then put in the meat to keep it cool.
Anyone ever tried that? Do you think it would work or not?

->>>--Elkoholic8-->
 
As usual, I think the answer is IT DEPENDS. We had a MOO cow break its neck one day when we were present. We hurried to get the tractor, cleaned it and hauled it to the meat cutter. It was pretty warm. We had BAD beef. So even if you take care of the animal quickly, it may spoil if the conditions are wrong.

All that being said, the bull I took last September was big bodied and back in a couple of nasty miles. We packed him out on our backs and it took 2 days. Meat was great!
4886a8da0db589c4.jpg



We took out as much meat as we could on the first trip and hung the rest in the shade. I didn't have game bags so we just quartered it well and trimmed a very small amout of fly blow on one quarter (I got lucky on that one).

4886a79605254f25.jpg

We got about 400 pounds of meat and that took us 6 man-trips. I don't know how the average guy and a buddy could get a bull out in one or two trips so think carefully about how far you go in.

I wish I had a great tag to worry about getting a bull out again. Good luck.

HAZMAT
 
Hey Elk375 looks like some good info for keeping your game meat on the acidic side to keep the bugs away and help slow the spoiling, but I have to ask a question. Citric acid is very sour. If you cover your meat in that solution what are the steaks going to taste like? I'm not into sour patch venison.
 
Just thought I'd give you a few ideas.

Don't let these guys scare you from backpacking your elk out after you kill it. It's been done plenty of times. It's work, but you can take a lot of the work out of it if you're smart.


Once you've killed the elk, immediately get to work on it. If it's evening, I like to quarter it using what MM'ers call the gutless method. I've done it for years before I heard it called that, but nevertheless it is quick and will allow you to hang the meat up for the night to cool.

If it's morning, I prefer to slice the hide down the back starting between the ears and ending at the tail. Skin the hide down over the quarters and then bone out the meat. Don't just haggle the meat off the bone either. Cut each muscle out and trim off the fat and gristle. I don't like to pack anything out that I don't plan to eat. I would rather take an extra hour to trim fat and gristle than have to make an extra trip out and back in to get more meat.

As soon as a piece of meat is trimmed off the elk, I place it in a lightweight gamebag in the shade. I then hang it so air can circulate around it. This does two things. #1 it cools it, and # 2 it dries the meat out making it lighter to pack.

I typically save the cape, and will cape the animal while I'm boning it out. Here is another place you can save yourself a lot of weight and extra work.

Learn how to properly cape your animal. This will save you work, time and time again. Cape it out and lay the cape in the shade with the flesh side up so it can air dry as well.(don't let it dry clear out) This will save you some weight, and it will cool the cape down so it doesn't slip. Also, do yourself a favor and do your best to leave the meat on the neck, and not on the cape. If you end up with meat on the cape, trim it off so you don't have to pack it all the way back to the truck.

Here's the next thing that will save your bacon. Bring a lightweight saw along. I don't mean a 2 pounder either. I take the meat saw from my taxidermy shop and break the blade off so it's about a 10 inch piece off the rear part of the blade. I then wrap electrical tape around the back 3 inches of it so I can use it for a handle, and I can use the tape for emergencies if needed. This setup weighs 3 ounces tops. It takes me about 10 minutes to saw an elks antlers off properly so they can be mounted. This will save you about 20 lbs of weight that no one needs to pack out, ever. (unless you are doing a european mount.)

I make sure the cape and the meat are cool to the touch before I start packing. Both can be ruined if you load them in the pack and head down the trail with the meat still warm and your body heat from your sweaty back on one side, and the sun beating down on the pack from the other side.

It's still a lot of work to get an animal out, especially an elk, but if you do it the right way, it will be a lot easier on you than if you try to do it the hard way. Also, just as a reminder, there is no substitute for being in shape when you are backpack hunting.

Good luck,
Travis
 
Deerbedead, sounds like you've done this enough to save you're self an extra trip.Bring along a 10' peice of parachute cord in pack for hanging quarters.It makes it easier to bone out while hanging up off ground.
 
Deerbedead, best post yet. Pretty much exactly what I do, but, you have a great idea with the saw blade and tape. I may start doing that.
I never take a saw because i never saw a real use and they are heavy and bulky. Also I packout the caped head because most times it will be a european as I have not been mounting anything smaller than what is on the wall now. I cape it every time because my taxi gives me a credit for capes.
However, the way you carry a saw blade wrapped in tape is a great idea. I carry pillow cases rather than game bags, but, same idea.

Also I do the gutless method and also get the tenderloins out using the gutless method as well. (someone taught me that a few years ago).

Great post Travis. Very good information for someone that has not done it a lot.
 
Use bunches of black pepper on the meat you wish to eat and sacrifice some bad cuts or have the guts for the flies to lay on. I've found if you have the meat peppered and there is nothing else around the flies will just "hold their noses " and dive bomb right in but if you have meat peppered and bagged and toss some crap meat under it prefferably in the sun they will just bury it in eggs mostly ignoring the good stuff hanging in the shade. The fly eggs are a serious problem in the gagg dept. for me I cannot tolerate them on my meat. Once on a m/l hunt in hot weather by the time I got to the snoot while caping the nostrils were literally packed with eggs-1000's of them. Last yr I passed on several very nice bulls in sept because it was pushing 80 every day and I just didn't feel like working that hard to save the meat- and I had animals to help. Took a cow in Oct in the spitting snow and things went much better. Non res don't have this luxury.
 
DBD

Your post is great. I will probably print it and put a copy in my backpack for reference should I be so lucky to knock down an elk this year.

264X300
 
">It takes me about 10
>minutes to saw an elks
>antlers off properly so they
>can be mounted."
Where are you cutting the antlers off at, right at the base of the skull? I didn't think you could do that and still have a good mount. Unfortunately for me, I usually kill smaller animals and don't need to worry about a head mount. I usually just do a European mount. Recently I saw an Austrian cut and kinda like that so that will save a few pound of skull also.

->>>--Elkoholic8-->
 
I have never heard of citric acid tainting meat with a bitter taste. Immediately after the kill if there is cold mountain water available skin your elk and put the warm quarters in a contractor plastic bag and put the meat in water for approximately 1 hour. This will take the heat out of the meat. Then spray it with citric acid 2 tablespoons per liter and bag the meat with lose cotton bags.

I have learn about meat care form several sources in Alaska. If on a moose or caribou hunt your meat spoils you can be find up to $5000 and all hunting equipment forfeited -- not a good deal.
 

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