May I Vent???

GilaJeff · Feb 2, 2015

Well, it is application time again in AZ, and I just get really hacked off this time of year due to what happened to me four years ago. I was working and living in AZ at the time, and had some wonderful hunts there. My job was requiring me to relocate to Washington State, about four years ago. I really wanted to purchase a lifetime license before I left, so I called the AZDGF office in PHX. I asked how to go about buying a lifetime license. I was told to just stop by, show your driver's license, and pay the $$$. I told the person on the phone, that I lived in Round Valley. So they said, well just stop by the Pinetop office and they would take care of me. I figured on my way out of town, I would stop in and buy the license. Well, and the day I was leaving AZ, I stop by the Pinetop office, and am told that I need a an affidavit declaring my residency, notarized by a Notary Public. What the hell? Why didn't the PHX office tell me that? I was so stressed from having to move and I HAD to be in WA Sunday night (This was a Friday afternoon). I just couldn't take the time to go round up a Notary Public file the affidavit, etc. So I headed out for my new job without my lifetime license. Now, it is apparent that unless the NR draw rules change, I will have little chance of ever drawing the premium deer hunts I have been waiting for. I know there is talk about amending the % allocation to for NR tags, but who knows what will happen. I just needed to vent folks. Anyone have any ideas? Sorry for sounding like a crybaby.

Zim · Feb 2, 2015

Oh wow that sucks if you were indeed eligible. Something that valuable I'd have planned WAY in advance as a high priority. I got divorced 8 years ago in Indiana and even tho I was upset I had the foresight to move immediately over the state line into Illinois and set up shop 30 days legally before grabbing my IL LL. Wow it paid off because within a month IL changed the law allowing you to move out of state and still apply as a resident. I ended up getting one of the very last ones in August. They went by the date the apps arrived in Springfield and I made it by like a week! Best $200 I ever spent! Hell one NR deer tag alone is now $550.

This all happened to you 4 years ago!?

***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club

GilaJeff · Feb 3, 2015

Yes, I should have been more proactive. It did happen four years ago, and I have stewed over it three or four times a week, every week, for the last four years. I am now considering a move back to AZ (I am very mobile with my employer), just to re-establish residency and buy the lifetime license. Moving back to AZ just to increase my odds of drawing a Strip deer tag might indicate just how bad I want it.

azcockroach · Feb 3, 2015

Just registered on MM so I could reply/question your post. First of all; sorry you missed out on the LL when you left Pinetop. When my wife and I purchased these licenses we were not asked to provide any notarized statement. Seems like there is some inconsistency within the AZGFD and their offices.

My question is to any AZ LL holders who are now NR's...Have any of you have had success drawing tags as NR's with the AZ Lifetime Licenses?? We have applied for a number of years and not drawn a darn thing. Usually apply for late elk hunts and non-premium deer that should take fewer points than what we have to draw them. One of my frustrations is that there isn't an appropriate box to check on the applications that reflects a NR with a Lifetime License. You have a choice of either a resident or a non-resident, and we always check as NR's even though lifetime license holders are supposed to go into the resident hat for drawing purposes. Talking with AZGFD people, they say the "computer" is able to sort license numbers and get everybody into the correct pool. We've certainly had zero evidence of this personally, and I wonder if others have had any draw success that might ease my fears...

Good luck to you patx if you make the move back to AZ. Hope you score that Strip tag you want so badly, and a big buck to hang it on...

GilaJeff · Feb 3, 2015

Thanks for the reply Roach. That sure would suck if you bought the LL's and are still going into the draw with NR odds! I think I will call Game and Fish and talk to a live person. If they have any revealing insights, I will post them here.

GilaJeff · Feb 3, 2015

Well, after being on hold for 31 minutes, I finally got to speak to a real person in PHX with AZDGF. The process for acquiring a Lifetime License, as she described it, does not involve an affidavit notarized by a Notary Public, only an application and a photocopy of a valid AZ driver's license. The curious thing is that she said even with a LL, a NR goes into the NR draw and not the resident draw. She was sure of it, because that is what her boss told her, and that is what she has been telling people.

azcockroach · Feb 3, 2015

Wow! We can only hope she is wrong, but I've had some doubts for some time now. I believe her statement is contrary to what is written in the AZ regs, but maybe she divulged something that she shouldn't have! I don't mind supporting AZ and AZGFD with our purchases, but most wouldn't spend the dollars for LL if there wasn't some benefit to it. We'll see how the draws play out again this year and go from there. Thanks for making the call and posting what you learned, much appreciated...

azcockroach · Feb 3, 2015

I sort of got hung up in my last post and forgot to address your side of this equation... It sure appears that the good folks in the Pinetop office did you a big disservice by asking you to get a notarized affidavit. My wife and I presented our AZDL and laid out the money and that was it. I'm guessing you might be a tad bit PO'd after hearing this from the Phoenix folks, and rightfully so...I surely would be!!

Califelkslayer · Feb 3, 2015

Or be Happy, Happy, Happy that he didn't fork out the money for the license and still be in the NR pool.

ArizonaBuild · Feb 3, 2015

LAST EDITED ON Feb-03-15 AT 09:57PM (MST)[p]Lifetime License Holders
If a lifetime license holder changes residency
status from Arizona, the licensee must then
purchase non-resident stamps, tags, and
permits. A non-resident tag or stamp can accompany
your lifetime resident license. If
you are a lifetime license holder who has
moved out of state, the 10 percent non-resident
cap does not apply to you. The lifetime
license will remain legal for the taking of all
wildlife as permitted by law. Residency may
be re-established after moving back to Arizona
and meeting the required time period as
defined below.
Residency Requirements
?Resident? means a person who is domiciled
(claims the state of Arizona as their true,
fixed and permanent home and principal
residence) in this state for six months immediately
preceding the date of application for
a license, permit, tag, or stamp and does not
claim residency for any purpose in another
state or jurisdiction; or is a member of the
armed forces of the United States on active
duty and stationed in: (i)This state for a period
of thirty days immediately preceding the
date of applying for a license, permit, tag, or
stamp; (ii) Another state or country but who
lists this state as their home of record at the
time of applying for a license, permit, tag, or
stamp.
Arizona Residents may purchase a resident
license. All other individuals must purchase a
non-resident license.

GilaJeff · Feb 4, 2015

ArizonaBuild, Yup, that was my understanding of the LL. It seems as though internally, AZDGF needs some consistency with the law, and there messaging. The lady I spoke to on the phone told me the only advantage to a LL is that you no longer have to pay for the annual license, thereby saving a lot of money in the long run.

azcockroach · Feb 4, 2015

Ugh...apparently I was badly off base when I bought a LL. Knowing that we'd be moving out of AZ following retirement, it seemed like a wise idea to get the LL and remain in the resident draw pool. No doubt that we have gotten a fair value for our money in terms of reduced license fees, but the whole idea was to remain in the better draw pool. Looking at the excerpt that ArizonaBuild posted from the AZ Regs; I am still puzzled and unclear as to what it means when they say the 10% NR Cap doesn't apply to NR LL holders. My question would be, what does apply? I always have interpreted that sentence to mean that NR LL holders would be placed in the resident draw pool, but now I have no idea. Other NR LL holders that I know and communicate with were/are of the same opinion, but that now looks flawed and untrue. It would appear that we are merely NR's with a permanent hunting license, and nothing more. With advancing age it doesn't make a big difference one way or another, and we enjoyed our share of good permits and hunts in AZ as residents. I do believe that a simplified and straight forward explanation would benefit younger folks that are considering purchasing a LL, and help them to make a more informed choice. Patxarano I'd be curious if this has changed your mind about a LL, or if you will go for it anyways?? Happy hunting guys...

cmbbulldog · Feb 4, 2015

I think I fall into the younger crowd, and recently moved from AZ to CO, and I purchased a lifetime license.

The regs are pretty clear that the 10% cap doesnt apply to people with LL's.

I could see that enter "us" into the NR draw portion, but if our number gets pulled, then the cap doesnt apply.

azcockroach · Feb 4, 2015

I think you're spot on there Bulldog. I don't think the LL definitions or specifics in the regs have changed since maybe 2004 when the Taulman USO fiasco may have spawned the 10% cap language. I didn't read it close enough and gain the right understanding. I just made a bad assumption that if we weren't under the 10% NR Cap then we must be in the resident pool. My goof, I should have asked more questions back then. My wife and I have a good number of points, but I'm pretty sure that we'll need to be damn lucky to ever draw another tag in AZ. I have 18 antelope points and that has kept me interested in applying annually. If you're younger than 50 I'd guess that your LL will eventually pay off for you with a good tag or two. Hope so, good luck to you.

cmbbulldog · Feb 5, 2015

Its really tough to draw tags as a resident.... depending on what tags you are applying for.

bonecollector777 · Feb 5, 2015

There isn't a "NR" draw portion. Everyone is thrown in together and everyone is assigned a random number. Bonus pass goes through and some real good hunts use up the 10% NR cap in that pass. If that happens and another NR is pulled he just gets thrown out because they can't give him a tag. After bonus pass everyone gets a new number and NR and resident get mixed together.
Some other hunts have tags available to NR after the bonus pass so they go through that and the moment a NR draws a tag that hits the 10% cap a NR can't draw that tag after that.
now let's say a NR with a LL gets their number picked after the 10% cap is hit. If that happens you won't be rejected the tag because you don't count as a "NR" getting a tag. It looks at you as a resident so you should still have the advantage any person living in AZ has besides paying more for the tag.
Of course this is how it's supposed to work but who knows with the AZGFD.

azcockroach · Feb 5, 2015

Good explanation bonecollector777 and I appreciate hearing it. This makes some sense to me now... Short of having max to near max points; we need to hope for a good random number for that second pass. We'll keep our fingers crossed and hope it works as designed. Thanks for posting.