Question for the LR Hunters

Fairchasen

Fairchasen

Member
Messages
34
Why won't/can't you just get closer to the animal?

I'll make it multiple choice

a) lack of hunting/stalking skill

b) physical limitations (disability)

c) lazy, out of shape slob

d) all of the above

Try to answer honestly
 
>Why won't/can't you just get closer
>to the animal?
>
>I'll make it multiple choice
>
>a) lack of hunting/stalking skill
>
>b) physical limitations (disability)
>
>c) lazy, out of shape slob
>
>
>d) all of the above
>
>Try to answer honestly

Please don't have kids... You just filled the quota for ignorant people.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-15 AT 01:31PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-15 AT 01:30?PM (MST)

I don't have a long range gun and a scope with turrets, nor a level, nor do I practice a lot of long range shot. However I have some friends who do and can shoot very well long range.
They might ask you some questions:
1. How far is too far? 300,400,500, 600,800, 1000 yards.
2. What ranges do you practice? What is your pattern at that range?
3. How many days a year do you practice, to be fair to the animal?
4. What energy does your bullet carry at all the ranges?
5. What about a 200 yard running shot? Is that OK?

6. Do you practice every week or monthly? If not is it because:
A.Your lazy.
B. Don't care.
C. Don't want to be bothered?
D. Buy your ammo the night before the hunt?
E. Don't hunt with a scope, more fair chase with the open site lever action.

I have not been an advocate of long range shooting 700 yards plus. But I would bet some could out shoot you at 800 yards with there set up and practice than you could shoot at 300-400 yards.

Know you equipment, practice, and make good choices, before you pull the trigger. Don't be so judgmental. Just a few thoughts.
 
OP,
Coming from a guy who has what, 2 years big game hunting experience?

First of all, you have to establish what your prejudice is, and based on that, your definition of long range. Step out of the way and we can take it from there since you haven't a clue.

I'm sure there are a few guys who will have their noses in your butt for such a fine post. Hopefully that's what you're looking for but you won't get it from me.

Zeke
 
How about F.)

As in go F yourself...presumptuous frikken tool

I've killed elk and deer at less than 10 yards with my recurve, and hammered em likewise with firearms at relatively extended ranges; 658 for centerfire, 317 with muzzleloader

Talk to me me about "laziness" and "stalking skills"

Lets frikken hear it guy

My thoughts are that youre a goddamned chump? Correct me if I'm wrong :)
 
G. Because until there's a law passed stating I can't. Then I'll continue to be cleared for launch.
 
Just an observation that I've made over the years. Many folks who have become accomplished marksmen and taken long shots make the choice to discontinue the practice for one reason or another. They generally state that they don't take long shots but aren't derogatory to those who do. Then there are the jealous ones who have no skill and choose to just be internet douchers for fun and reaction. I know a few guys who have made comments like those on threads like this. They generally aren't proficient with any weapon at any distance.

Those who are proficient usually hold their peace because they realize that it is human nature to try to excel and that when you have worked hard to accomplish a skill that you want to exercise that skill.

Don't hate bro. Go practice and get good at something. Then you'll have something legit to talk about and you won't come off like such a snarky little ##### boy. You might still disagree with long range hunting, but at least you will develope some intellect and tact along the way. Then you can disagree like a big boy.-------SS
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-15 AT 07:20PM (MST)[p]>I believe someone hit a nerve!
>lol


Actually more like some of us are tired of the pathetic ramblings of the uneducated judgemental wannabes that troll MM. That's all.
I'm not even a LR shooter (by my definition) but I shoot enough to know MY skill set and the skill of a few others and it's unconcionable to suppose that simply because some can't, then nobody should.
That is all.

Zeke
 
Great answers, so far we have: Im a clown, a douche, a troll, can't shoot, they haven't passed a law yet and some guy wants his nuts licked.....

But seriously, why dont you try to get closer?
 
Haha, and squirrely ol MT Muley chippers in with his usual reduntantly vague and pitiably PATHETIC comments

Frikken chumper, haha :)
 
We do get closer. We sneak way in close using cover and playing the wind.....I'm talking see the whiskers close. Then we turn around and sneak back away. Way away where we set up and make 1 perfectly placed shot. This is called the stalk and anti stalk method. You've probably never even heard of it have you? It's obviously way more prestigious than simply sneaking in and blowing some poor ungulate away at mere feet leaving unsightly powder burns all over an otherwise pristine pelt. We of the higher order like to call this method 'Ultra Compassionate Chase'.....much more ethical than merely Fair Chase like most simpletons follow. Our method is so overly fair that we don't enter our animals in the B&C records because it would be an insult to place animals killed this way amongst all the slop that fills those pages.

The only arguments that I have ever heard against long range hunting that have had merit in my opinion have come from Founder and Sage Advice. I can understand clearly where they are coming from and agree with some of their thoughts. -----SS
 
I think its a rather innocent and fair question. I am a bow and muzz guy because I enjoy it and have the capabilities of getting close. I have some very close friends who are long range guys mostly for all the reasons you gave I'm afraid to say. Out of shape and lack of skill for my them, but I won't speak for anyone but them. I'm guessing maybe a few that were offended by the question might be good friends with my friends :)
 
Feleno,
When you archery and muzzy, you mean longbow, cedar shafts and sidelock open site round ball and patch.........right?
 
73
Not about the distance my equipment will shoot like it is with LR hunters (which I have nothing against). I like to get close. Longest bow shot 28 yards, longest muzz shot a hair over 100. I could have taken longer shots and maybe got more game but the thrill is in the hunt and getting close. I plink at long distances with my friends but seeing if I can whack an animal at 800 yards isn't to exciting for me. Cool for the guys that like to do it. Don't make me right or wrong, just not my thing.
 
I love these LR discussions! All the long rangers are ultra sensitive about protecting there way of life. Like I said before, these dudes are deadly and can shoot accurately no doubt about it. The only problem is it is unfair for the animal as the animal has no-idea you even exist from ranges of 600 plus. IMO it is not fair chase. There is no hunting an animal that is being shot at these long ranges as the natural senses of the animal depict no harm from these ultra long ranges. You see the LR hunter shooting multiple shots and the animal just feeding. You see the Long Ranger shoot a buck out of a herd and then see his friend pick up his same gun and then shoot a buck 25 yards away from that first dead buck. Meanwhile, the whole group of deer are still feeding unaware.
 
>I love these LR discussions! All
>the long rangers are ultra
>sensitive about protecting there way
>of life. Like I said
>before, these dudes are deadly
>and can shoot accurately no
>doubt about it. The only
>problem is it is unfair
>for the animal as the
>animal has no-idea you even
>exist from ranges of 600
>plus. IMO it is not
>fair chase. There is no
>hunting an animal that is
>being shot at these long
>ranges as the natural senses
>of the animal depict no
>harm from these ultra long
>ranges. You see the LR
>hunter shooting multiple shots and
>the animal just feeding. You
>see the Long Ranger shoot
>a buck out of a
>herd and then see his
>friend pick up his same
>gun and then shoot a
>buck 25 yards away from
>that first dead buck. Meanwhile,
>the whole group of deer
>are still feeding unaware.

1. I'm not ultra sensitive. No need to preserve my way of life.....no laws are even in the works to change it?
2. It's not 600 yards it's 400. 400 is the magical number where the deer become sensitive to you an your actions.
3. Your last comment could be true, unfortunately the cannon I shoot does clear everything outta canyon I'm in (regardless of its location once a send one down the pipe. )
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-28-15 AT 00:57AM (MST)[p]It really is nothing more than opinions. What about the new bows that are so quiet that at times a deer or elk doesn't spook from a missed first shot, allowing a second shot? I honestly can not believe how tall the ponies are around this site now days.

How about this for fair chase. Shooting yearling or younger bucks because they are not educated yet about hunters and are easier to approach? What about antlerless animals that have bunched up late in the season and spend more time out in the open?
 
Oh no looks like we need to ban any negative talk about long range hunting because it's hurting someones feelings. That's the way it works now days right? While some may consider the original post trolling and a bit rude it was actually still kind of funny. No need for some of you longrangers to get your knickers in a twist. Suck it up buttercups!

Muley_73 there's a big difference in getting multiple shots within bow range while using a bow than with a rifle at longrange.
 
I Won't mention the Yardage!

Let's just say it was far enough away to make most MM'ers Weep!

I don't consider Myself a LR Whore!

But I have tried it a few times with Decent Results!

1123damage1.jpg


We laugh, we cry, we love
Go hard when the going's tough
Push back, come push and shove
Knock us down, we'll get back up again and again
We are Members of the Huntin Crowd!
 
Buns,
Not really, they involve more efficient hunters as a result of techonolgy advancements. How about the hunter that uses cover scent or scentblocker. Are they too lazy to hike to get the wind in their favor. Are they being fair by using a technologically advanced product to fool one of the deers nature senses?

The young and antlerless question to sensitive? I'm gonna say it's easier to kill a wintering cow elk or a yearling buck than it is to kill a mature animal. Are the hunters that choose to do that bad hunters? Not really hunters just harvesters? Are they not dedicated enough to put in hours scouting are they too lazy to keep looking for a mature animal? It the kill more important than the actual hunt? Honestly it is all BS opinions.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-28-15 AT 11:35AM (MST)[p]How close is considered close enough? 399 yards is considered ethical but 400 you are a lazy slob? I always try to get as close as I can. There are many animals I could have killed at 800+ but chose to get closer.
A few years ago it was 600. I found the buck I had been after a few years. I was cliffed out and was as close as I could. Was I going to just watch him walk away hoping to see him again? Hell no! I dropped the hammer and put a 200" buck on my wall.
If you think that's lazy, can't get close enough, blah blah whatever. Come spend a day with me in Wyoming this year and you'll be the one sucking air trying to keep up. :)
Oh and I know this will come as a huge surprise to some of the true, ethical hunters that hunt with a spear and have no unfair advantage. ... I bow hunt more than I rifle hunt. But..but...but.. How can that be? :eek:
 
I Ain't Messin with anybody that Hunts in a Loin Cloth & doesn't get back to his Camp till Midnight!:D





We laugh, we cry, we love
Go hard when the going's tough
Push back, come push and shove
Knock us down, we'll get back up again and again
We are Members of the Huntin Crowd!
 
Muley73, Just so I'm clear are you saying that there is not really a difference between getting multiple shots at an animal at 800 yards with a rifle compared to getting multiple shots at an animal with a bow at 80 yards? Where in one situation the animal has no chance to hear, see or smell the hunter while the other there's the possibility for the animal to see the hunter, smell the hunter or hear the hunter.

Yes you are correct majority of the time it's harder to kill a mature animal over a younger one. With that being said I'd would have to say it's easier to kill a mature animal by shooting it out past 600 yards when compared to stalking in close and killing a young animal within 200 yards. At long ranges the hardest part is finding the animal. Once the animal is found and the hunter decides to shoot the animal at long range whether it be a big ol mature buck or a spike with milk still on his lips they are both nothing more than targets at this point and both require the same amount of skill to kill. Now try and stalk in to within 200 yards than yes the younger buck should be easier to kill.
 
Buns,
I'm saying its personal opinion in all cases. Has nothing to do with hunting skill. 80 yards with a bow? Hmmmm I'd like to hear how many think an 80 yard archery shot is more acceptable than an 800 yard rifle shot? Personally I have zero issue with either if they are executed by a skilled hunter/shooter.

Two real life experiences. A couple years ago I hunted free range public land Barbary sheep in New Mexico. If any of you have ever hunted this hunt you'll know how knee and hip grinding this terrain is. 3 days hiking leaving the truck at 4:30 AM and getting back at 9:30 to 10:00 PM. Day 1, 9 miles, Day 2 11 miles, day 3 13.4 miles. The night of day 3 a mature ram feeds up onto a ridge right at dark. 680 yards and I pile him up. It took over an hour to work my way over to get him. Next scenario, archery elk hunt in Utah. Evening drive with my wife on the razr, I hear a bull bulge just below us through the quakies, I hustle 300 yards down a cow trail to edge of the flat. A mature bull is tear up the sagebrush, I slip to 70 yard and shoot him. Wasn't even wearing any camo as I mostly was going for a ride with the wife and looking to make a plan for the evening hunt. My point is yardage has zero to do with hunting skill. Argue ethics all you want, but the yardage argument has nothing to do with hunting skill IMO.
 
I'm telling you guys it's the glass that makes it all unethical these days. Bow hunters, muzzy hunters, long range, short range. Every group uses the ability to enhance their natural predatory vision by 10-60X in order to gain advantage over the natural senses of game. Bow hunters who watch an animal at 800 yards until it beds so they can sneak up on it are guilty. Rifle hunters who use a scope that magnifies a target and compensates for trajectory are guilty. Everyone who would dare use a range finder or trail cam are far beyond help.

We won't even talk about the damage done during pre season scouting when folks use this evil glass to look over hundreds of miles of country in short order trying to determine the whereabouts and habits of their totally unsuspecting prey just so they can hedge their bets on opening day.


Make it fair guys, use the glass for looking at stars and your neighbors wife. Not for unethically killing animals.-------SS
 
Haha ya, you know I love ya MT MULEY, yer always good for a sardonic chuckle or two...the righteous, super self serious guys are always at least a bit mildly entertaining here on the big bad interwebz :)
 
A real hunter would not use any technology. All we should be able to use is our own two hands. Run it down on our own two feet, tackle it and strangle the ##### out of it! No rear naked choke, has to be face to face so it knows who's killing it so it qualifies as fair chase.

This thread is getting real f##king stupid, and yes I know i'm contributing to the stupidity.
 
So what I have come away with from this discussion is that if you don't do it, it is not OK. If you are doing it, it is OK and everyone else is wrong.

I think a lot of people get so caught up in being successful that they really don't care about the hunt. All they care about is getting something killed so they can take a bunch of pictures so they can post them up right away and revel in the glory of being a Stud.
 
elk,
No its not at all, it is all about the hunt. Its the judgement of others on how that hunt takes place. This post started as a shot at LR hunters. Nothing more than a clown looking for a reaction, we are all bored so we play along.
 
I think the take-away is this: we love to paint everyone with the same brush!

Nobody knows anyone here on MM yet we're all ready and waiting to make judgement based on a very narrow paradigm.

It's that simple! I don't know why I fell into such a black-hole.

Zeke
 
>How bout we just go back
>to hunting like the Indians?
>


HAHA! Could we at least use toilet paper or would that be considered too much modern technology for some people? HAHA!
 
The truth is people are selfish and put to much pressure upon themselves to achieve their goals. So much so that it will outweigh their better judgement. Add to that stress the knowledge that one's perceived competitor might kill the beast before you do and you have a recipe for all kinds of unethical behavior and the self serving excuses which accompany it. Whether your effective range is 50 yards or a full mile it boils down to whether you can discipline yourself to be satisfied while watching your quarry walk away just outside of your effective range.
 
>>How bout we just go back
>>to hunting like the Indians?
>>
>
>
>HAHA! Could we at least use
>toilet paper or would that
>be considered too much modern
>technology for some people? HAHA!
>

Toilet paper buck skin.
 
I think some of you are falsely assuming that if a person is anti-long range then they must also be anti-technology. I for one am not a fan of long range hunting but I am fine with technological advances in hunting. It all depends on what and how new hunting technology is use. Anti-long range doesn't always equal anti-technology.
 
The deer have so many things against them right now. That the long range thing just doesn't seem right. To me, it's the last thing they need right now. One thing I haven't seen brought up(unless I missed it) Is the safety issue. I had an ordeal that scared the hell out of me. Some guys shooting at some bucks below me at a 1000+ yards. (One of the bucks would be a good one in 2 more years.) And the bucks made there way up to me those bullets were coming closer to me than the deer. Very scary. That's the short version of a long story. My son 18 is into LR we have had several discussions. He said what is the difference of killing your deer at 100 yds. or a thousand. My thought is fine but if you miss your buck at a thousand yds. Go home you are done. Don't be shooting at 3,4 or 5 of them. If your such a great shot one & done or done & none. That's my thoughts for what it's worth.
 
>
>I Ain't Messin with anybody that
>Hunts in a Loin Cloth
>& doesn't get back to
>his Camp till Midnight!:D


What about fellas who wear their ball cap backwards?
 
>I think some of you are
>falsely assuming that if a
>person is anti-long range then
>they must also be anti-technology.
> I for one am
>not a fan of long
>range hunting but I am
>fine with technological advances in
>hunting. It all depends
>on what and how new
>hunting technology is use.
>Anti-long range doesn't always equal
>anti-technology.

If you are FOR technology than I guess I don't understand why you are ANTI long range. The technology is there to make the long range shots but we shouldn't use THAT technology?! If you're going to sit on a tall horse looking down on what you consider long range then any technology sitting in your pack looks hypocritical to me.

My biggest beef with the long range debate is WHAT IS CONSIDERED LONG RANGE? There's a guy I know here that is an avid hunter but I can out shoot him at 800 yards what he can do at 200 yards. Who's unethical in this situation.....me shooting at 800 yards or him shooting at 300? What is considered long range to one person is a chip shot for another.

I could care less how another hunter chooses to hunt as long as its legal. I hunt with a recurve, compound, muzzy and rifle. Just enjoy the WAY YOU HUNT and quit getting your panties in a knot about the way others hunt.
 
I pretty much agree with Marley's post, but there are things to consider with LR hunting and technology.

Is technology going to impact season lengths, quotas, etc. with the increase in success rates?

The problem isn't with the technology, its what the outcome of unfettered technology will cause.

Is making things easier with technology, and increased success rates because of technology, worth the trade-off of less total hunters in the field each year, shorter seasons, etc.???

I don't know...but that's what's happening as technology advances.

Another question would be, where is the line and when do we put limits on technology?

I don't know the answer to that either.
 
Buzz,
I agree 100%. The scary thing is its across the board. Not just weapons, its a combination of all of it. ATVs, Optics, Clothing, Footwear it all makes us more effective killers.
 
>>I think some of you are
>>falsely assuming that if a
>>person is anti-long range then
>>they must also be anti-technology.
>> I for one am
>>not a fan of long
>>range hunting but I am
>>fine with technological advances in
>>hunting. It all depends
>>on what and how new
>>hunting technology is use.
>>Anti-long range doesn't always equal
>>anti-technology.
>
>If you are FOR technology than
>I guess I don't understand
>why you are ANTI long
>range. The technology is
>there to make the long
>range shots but we shouldn't
>use THAT technology?! If
>you're going to sit on
>a tall horse looking down
>on what you consider long
>range then any technology sitting
>in your pack looks hypocritical
>to me.
>
>My biggest beef with the long
>range debate is WHAT IS
>CONSIDERED LONG RANGE?
>There's a guy I know
>here that is an avid
>hunter but I can out
>shoot him at 800 yards
>what he can do at
>200 yards. Who's unethical
>in this situation.....me shooting at
>800 yards or him shooting
>at 300? What is
>considered long range to one
>person is a chip shot
>for another.
>
>I could care less how another
>hunter chooses to hunt as
>long as its legal.
>I hunt with a recurve,
>compound, muzzy and rifle.
>Just enjoy the WAY YOU
>HUNT and quit getting your
>panties in a knot about
>the way others hunt.

It's not the technology used in long range hunting I'm against it's the actual act of long range hunting I'm against. Growing up in the 70s-80s back way before most of the techno gadgets we use today I knew quite a few hunters that consistently killed game out past 600 yards with nothing more than the average hunting gear used at that time. Far from being technologically advanced like we are today but they still were hunting long range. I didn't agree with this style of hunting then and I don't agree with it now and it has nothing to do with technology. If you what to call me a hypocrite on a high horse so be it.
 
So what's long range to you? 400 yards? So if it's 399 I'm okay? This is stupid. Just hunt the way you want and allow others the same without calling them less of a hunter. These soap boxes drive me nuts.
 
>My
>thought is fine but if
>you miss your buck at
>a thousand yds. Go home
>you are done. Don't be
>shooting at 3,4 or 5
>of them. If your such
>a great shot one &
>done or done & none.
>That's my thoughts for what
>it's worth.


That's the dumbest S##T I have read so far.
 
What is long range ? When you come to the edge of a canyon and you cannot float across. Then I guess it's ok to shoot long range?
 
It's Basically gonna be nothing more than BRAGGIN Rights!

"""Look at Me!"""

"""I'm a Member of the 500 Yard Shot Club!"""

"""I'm a Member of the 750 Yard Shot Club!"""

"""I'm a Member of the 1,000 Yard Shot Club!"""

"""I'm a Member of the 1,500 Yard Shot Club!"""

"""I'm a Member of the 2,000 Yard Shot Club!"""

Ya!

I know!

It Ain't Far off and a 2,500 Yard Shot will be a Chump Shot!

Just sayin..........................!

Maybe some MM'er can get Patches Built so He/She can Sell them to these LR'ers that can Sport the Patches on their Jackets!

JFP!!!









We laugh, we cry, we love
Go hard when the going's tough
Push back, come push and shove
Knock us down, we'll get back up again and again
We are Members of the Huntin Crowd!
 
Hello Fairchasen,
I have been watchin this thread for awhile and I finally caved and have to throw my .02 cents into the pile!
For the record:
I am pretty much against "LR Shooting" AT GAME!!!
Let me state what MY definition of "LR" is. To me, any shot at a big game animal, with ANY modern high powered rifle, over 500 yds, is a long, long, ways. I couldn't guarantee I can make that shot on my best day! But that's me!
I stated in another thread that I used to shoot the Metallica Sillouetta's back in the early 70's (Google it!). That was a long time ago. My eyes were a lot sharper back then. My body was a lot stronger. And, at least when I started, I still pretty much knew everything there was to know about target shooting, , , all you had to do was ask me!!! (Suttle admission of arrogance that was promptly slapped out of me once the shooting started, , , and many times since)!!
The best score I ever achieved (we shot about 100 rounds per month back then)on the 500 meter Ram (that is 545 yds!), was 3 out of 5! The world class shooters would consistently knock over 4 out of 5, and the winners would often hit 5 out of 5.

I know your probably asking "what is this old farts point??"

My point is that there some very talented, capable, shooters out there. The equipment (technology) has advanced to a level that was unimaginable even 20 years ago.
IF THEY ARE CONFIDENT THAT THEY CAN MAKE THE SHOT, AND THEY FOLLOW UP ON EVERY SHOT THEY TAKE, I SAY, "MOREPOWER TO EM".

BUT!!!!!!!!!

IF THEY ARE SHOOTING OVER MY HEAD FROM ACROSS THE CANYON WHILE I AM TRYING TO STALK CLOSER, OR THEY DO NOT ACTUALLY GO OVER TO WHERE THE ANIMAL WAS STANDING TO VERIFY A HIT OR MISS,,,, THATS WHEN I HAVE HAD A SERIOUS PROBLEM WITH "LR HUNTERS".

I guess it comes down to that old fashioned concept called respect, ethics, personal responsibility, and restraint!

Oh crap! I always get dizzy when I get up on this high horse!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-29-15 AT 07:17PM (MST)[p]Hey BIGJOHNT, I bet long range for most guys isn't a definite meeasurement. It is the range where a guy will say "Maybe I couldn't make this shot if I didn't have (insert rifle, bullet, scope etc. here) but with it I can. No practice, no anything but pull the trigger. And the ranges stretch with all the new "long range" gun companies. mtmuley
 
>200 yards is about 150 too
>far for most hunters from
>what I see at the
>range.


I hate to say it, but that's about right WB. I used to help out during sight in days at the range our Club has and we always had it open to the public for several weekends before the season opener. I got so tired after a few years of seeing 90% of the people come out that we were trying to help that couldn't hit a bear in the ass with a bass fiddle that I quit doing it. One guy even asked one of our helpers how to empty his rifle without shooting it because it was costing him too much for shells, LOL! That was the last weekend I worked those sight in days.
 
I here all the talk about how hard it is to shoot long range, but many LR rifles come set up, ready to go, loads and all. I have witnessed novice hunters, instructed by the rifle owner, dry fire a couple times and pound a big bull at over 600 yards. Not just once, but multiple times.

Counting all those out there using LR in my area, there has been a noticeable drop in average size in big bulls over the last 8-10 years. The proof it's hunting pressure is the average age of harvested elk has stayed the same, so size is being reduced by selection and IMO that couldn't happen without the LR element. It seems like more are hunting with LR than without these days.

I have a 300RUM that's capable of 1000 yd shooting. It's a fun gun to shoot metal and real elk, but I haven't shot a bull yet that couldn't have fell to my old 7mm mag. I like getting close!
 
Now that I am back from my nightly scouting. I can respond to Idbambi. First of all what kind of a person comments like that? "That's the dumbest s###t I have read so far" After reading that, I should have put it differently. What I was meaning to say is. I don't think you should be shooting at 3 or 4 different deer LR (in single season). If you can't hit them. So if you shoot at a buck at LR (to me LR is 600 to 1200 yds.) and miss, I don't think you should be shooting at more of them. How many are you wounding? Show the Deer a little respect. As well as other members on here. I am not against LR totally. I just don't think it's real good for the future of Hunting. Just curious IDbucks how many Bucks do you have to shoot at before you get one?
 
letmgetbig
I'll answer your questions in order.
-I comment like that.
-I haven't wounded any that got away. (knock on wood)
-Just shoot at the one I harvest.

I have never shot at a big game animal over 600yrds, haven't needed to yet. So what your saying is a guy only gets one opportunity at a deer, and if he misses he is done for the year?
Does that apply to everyone at any range or just for guys shooting over 600yrds?
Wounding a critter happens to everybody sooner or later, at long and short range. Hunters should make every effort possible to retrieve that animal that's wounded. The guys that say "oh well on to the next one" are not hunters in my opinion.

Whats better in your mind: A guy shooting at a deer at 700yrds with no wind, a solid rest and plenty of time to make adjustments OR A guy shooting at a running (bouncing)deer at 100yrds standing free hand? Are the chance's of wounding or missing the deer better or worse in either scenario?

"idbambi", good one.
 
Hello IDbucks, Those are perfect answers in my book. Ya I like the idea of shooting at 1 specific deer for the year. Get him or not. That's the way we have always done it. Except for youth they need all the experience they can get. I have lost 2 deer in my hunting career. I ended up finding one of them at a later date. But never even considered shooting at another one either time. I have only missed 1 buck that I can recall, it was a giant Idaho typical. Shot over him. I just kept hunting for him and didn't even think of taking another one. Every hunting situation has different exceptions so I can't say witch shot I would or wouldn't take. Hope you find a big one.
 
When the state issues me a tag it allows me to kill an animal. It doesn't say kill it between 0 and 300 yards.
 
heffe, some guys think that is the direction things are headed with technology. First of all, it is going to be a huge undertaking to prove that LR shooters are adversely affecting game populations. Second, enforcing any kind of caliber/scope/rangefinder law will be equally as difficult. mtmuley
 
Imagine all this squabble started from a new member with a little over 16 posts who's still fairchasen his first kill. Who'd a thunk?
I heard next weeks piss off has something to do about tree stands an ground blinds over/near ( bear baits, wallows, salt blocks, mineral licks, watering holes, game trails an those damn blasted corn feeders). How dare us hide our worthless asses 20 feet in the air or hid in bushes in ambush.
 
+1 mtmuley, well said. i'd also say yes, that many are concerned, way more than those sitting on their hands here.

This from Urban Dictionary, don't shoot the messenger!

"Top Definition"
"slob hunter"

"A slob hunter is someone who callously kills wildlife for entertainment and ego-gratification, and revels in killing as many animals as the law allows (or more). These people tend to vote GOP and lack respect for nature in many other realms. To make themselves appear less than evil, they use cover stories about "population control," "game management," "conservation" and "harvesting."

"A good example of early slob hunters were the Sharps riflemen who gunned down millions of bison in the 1870s to starve out the Indians. The general practice continues today on that same landscape during prairie dog shoots, where high-powered rifles on bench rests spit ammo for hours and small rodents explode to the sound of high-fives. There are few Indians in sight, but plenty of beer and tailgates. Their cover story is that prairie dogs are pests, even though their population has dwindled by 95%. Everything but Man is subject to that label."

"A recent slob hunting development has been the posting of YouTube "kill-shot" videos wherein crass people brag about the mayhem they inflict on animals, often looping it in slow motion. The focus is generally on calibers and ballistics, with the animals being mere targets. Many of the videos have metal soundtracks like video games. You can spot a slob hunting video by the common cry of "nice shot!" after the animal drops on camera. Death by arrow takes a bit longer but the cameras have that covered, too.
Uncle Ted is America's most famous slob hunter."


Now, whoever wrote this has no doubt done it with a 6" wall brush but understand that there is very much targeted attention being put on "us" and how we go about our "hunting". Votes! Votes can take our hunting heritage away so fast we won't know what hit us. I don't believe killing game animals farther away that they even know they're being shot at helps our position that we, us hunters, are good stewards of the resource and not just more prime examples of the definition above.

Joey



"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Hello sageadvice!
I think your post just about sums it up better than any of the others have so far, and certainly better than I ever could! Thank you!
If I may, I would like to add a couple more thoughts;
We all want to be tolerant.
We all want to be objective.
We all want to respect the opinions and experiences of the our fellow hunters.
The hunting "landscape" has changed so much in the last forty years, I often worry what it will look like in the next 10, 20, 30 years. Fortunately, I doubt I will be around to see it! I do feel sad for my son and grandchildren though.

I wonder how many on here know who Gene Hill was? That man had a way of touching the very essence of what hunting is, was, and should be.

Every opinion expressed on this post is valid. Some of them I vehemently disagree with!
I can't help but feel that we have somehow lost the point along the way.
 
"Sage sounds like a PETA lifetime member"

Better check your hearing and reading comprehension. I just copied here what's already long out there. They got lots of money, are organized with a sympathetic ear, tons of votes, and would love nothing better than to have more reasons to shut "us" down.

I am about respecting and preserving the animal first.
I'm about the continuation of our hunting heritage and all that entails second.
If the numbers work out that i can and do acquire a good tag, then the enjoyment of the hunt be it solo or with friends, ranks up there next.
Finally, if i need the meat and see a buck that i want to kill, i'll use all my skills acquired to get within my "for sure" range and make a clean kill.

If i could know that i'd cripple or would wound and lose my next buck, i'd hang it up today and never hunt bucks again. I got too much respect for the animal and will not write off a lost crippled buck as "$hit happens".

Maybe with time some of you will come to see things as i do. I hope so.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Working up some new test loads; Berger's & Nosler LRAB's for my 300 RUM. Looking forward to getting out in the next week or two to see how they group. Should be a good hunting season...
 
I compare this topic to the one about ATV's - just a way for some to let off steam on their opinion - those that like ATV's and those that dislike the use of ATV's will never change. Same can be said about LR shooting- With LR shooting, advance technology will most likely have an adverse effect in the long run. The deer and elk are the same as they were 100 years ago and we continue to take the hunting out of the sport. The focus today is really on the kill not the pursuit - I still think that someone will be shooting over the head of a hunter stalking an animal to get closer and crazy stuff will happen. Most of you are too young to remember the time back in Colorado when I believe two hunters were shot off trail bikes during hunting season - hope we don't see that kind of stuff going on.
 
BeDawg commented that the animal doesn't even know you're there at 600( or was it 800?) yds. The last buck I killed with my bow didn't know I was there, either. 14 yds.

Marley says it best. Go hunt. Quitcherbitchin'.

You can sure tell it's not hunting season...
 
Seems like more and more hunters are speaking up and voicing their concerns about the possible negative effects long range hunting will have on the sport. If I remember correctly I even think B&C just recently release a statement where they expressed their views against long range hunting. Hope this trend continues.
 
>BeDawg commented that the animal doesn't
>even know you're there at
>600( or was it 800?)
>yds. The last buck I
>killed with my bow didn't
>know I was there, either.
>14 yds.
>
>Marley says it best. Go hunt.
>Quitcherbitchin'.
>
>You can sure tell it's not
>hunting season...


BINGO!
 
>>BeDawg commented that the animal doesn't
>>even know you're there at
>>600( or was it 800?)
>>yds. The last buck I
>>killed with my bow didn't
>>know I was there, either.
>>14 yds.
>>
>>Marley says it best. Go hunt.
>>Quitcherbitchin'.
>>
>>You can sure tell it's not
>>hunting season...
>
>
>BINGO!

Bingo?????? You guys really don't see the huge difference between shooting a buck at 14 yards and at 600-800 yards? Next time your 800 yards from a buck stand up waive your hands and say "hey buck I'm over hear" and to top it off do it upwind of the buck. Now try to do the same thing but at 14 yards and see what happens. I guarantee you'll see the difference real quick.

It takes a great amount of skill to consistently get 14 yards from a buck. Getting this close to an animal is the epitome of hunting. You have to outwit your prey by overcoming all their senses. You have to play the wind, be as quite as a mouse and as invisible as a ghost all at the same time. The act of doing all this is what most would consider hunting.

Now shooting an animal at 800 yards is a bit different at least in my mind. A group of guys could drive up to a ridge upwind of a buck, get out of the truck while making a fair amount of noise, stand in the wide open to glass then after finding a buck yell "I got a buck" then proceed to clumsily get set up still being in the open while talking to his spotter who happens to be wearing a bright pink shirt with yellow shorts and wearing flip flops with a blue hat. Meanwhile the buck still has his nose to the ground eating showing no interest anything other than eating. The hunter gets ready and BOOM!!! You missed!" yells the spotter. Buck looks up for about 10 seconds and then continues feeding. BOOM! "You missed again!" yelled the fashionably dresses spotter. This time the buck gets startled a bit from the rock that just blew up in-front of him and runs about 10 yards and stops. BOOM! "You drilled him! He's done! He dropped in his tracks!" yells the spotter. By "drilled him" he meant the hunter shot him in the neck. To be fair this didn't happen at 800 yards......It was at 779 yards.

If people can't see(admit) the huge difference between shooting an animal at 14 yards compared to 800 yards then so be it.
 
Guns,
That's a funny scenario, here's one that I have seen play out many times over the past 30 years.

Early morning or evening on a weekend during the archery hunt. Pick up truck easing up a dirt road, two guys in the back bows resting on the cab of the truck as they scan the trees, truck stops and arrows fly at the buck 20 yards off the road. Misses, and up the road they go.

Both cases sound like jackassses too me. It has nothing to do with distance or weapon. I've seen the archery scenario play out literally 100 to 1 compared to the long range. Irresponsible hunters come in all weapons. Bottom line is be proficient at whatever hunting style you choose. Don't judge other hunters and represent all hunters positively and we will be strong as a group. When a post pops up like this that is meant to take shots at fellow hunters we should never entertain it. Someone that post shiit like that should have no place in our hunting community.
 
>Guns,
>That's a funny scenario, here's one
>that I have seen play
>out many times over the
>past 30 years.
>
>Early morning or evening on a
>weekend during the archery hunt.
> Pick up truck easing
>up a dirt road, two
>guys in the back bows
>resting on the cab of
>the truck as they scan
>the trees, truck stops
>and arrows fly at the
>buck 20 yards off the
>road. Misses, and
>up the road they go.
>
>
>Both cases sound like jackassses too
>me. It has nothing
>to do with distance or
>weapon. I've seen the archery
>scenario play out literally 100
>to 1 compared to the
>long range. Irresponsible
>hunters come in all weapons.
> Bottom line is be
>proficient at whatever hunting style
>you choose. Don't judge
>other hunters and represent all
>hunters positively and we will
>be strong as a group.
> When a post pops
>up like this that is
>meant to take shots at
>fellow hunters we should never
>entertain it. Someone that
>post shiit like that should
>have no place in our
>hunting community.

Probably one of the best posts on the thread. Some of you guys would do well to read it a couple times!
Jackasses are found in all groups and those are the ones to weed out!
Remember: united we stand.... divided is something we do on MM to get attaboy pats on the back from other jackasses.
Zeke
 
I'm waiting for my wife to get home so we can head up the canyon for the long weekend. With everybody else. And I'm upping my posts. So I can be thought of as a better hunter. The world wouldn't be much fun if we all thought exactly the same. But we are going to have to come together somewhat or we are going to loose what we love. The hunting I grew up with & loved is all ready gone. Maybe that's why so many of us are so touchy, we know there isn't much left to salvage. I promised my wife I would try to be positive & not cuss about how bad I think things are now days. Wish me luck! Have a good 4th of July weekend.
 
A few parts of that hunting story sounds like a hunt I filmed of my brothers & put on you tube. "You drilled him" And he did hit him in the neck. There was no missing though. It was 400 yds. Not 800. And I did say in the vid. it was as far as I liked to see anyone shoot at a deer. And I do not wear camo. even archery hunting. To me it has become a hunting costume. That ought to get somebody mad. Have a good weekend.
 
73 said, "...Both cases sound like jackassses too me"... "Don't judge other hunters and represent all hunters positively and we will be strong as a group."

Name calling, stick together but call out others, some archery hunters as Jackasses! Is that sticking together? Sounds awful hypocritical to me.


Zeke said, "Jackasses are found in all groups and those are the ones to weed out!
Remember: united we stand.... divided is something we do on MM to get attaboy pats on the back from other jackasses.

Calling MM members jackasses that expressed their opinions and views here that are different from your own, Is that being "united" Zeke? Your comments too, sounds awful hypocritical.


If i feel that "our" hunting heritage, still as it is, is being threatened by the actions of any particular group or several, dam straight, i'll speak my piece and not be influenced by defensive name calling which is best left in the "Political Forum".

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
>73 said, "...Both cases sound like
>jackassses too me"... "Don't judge
>other hunters and represent all
>hunters positively and we will
>be strong as a group."
>
>
> Name calling, stick together but
>call out others, some archery
>hunters as Jackasses! Is that
>sticking together? Sounds awful hypocritical
>to me.
>
>
>Zeke said, "Jackasses are found in
>all groups and those are
>the ones to weed out!
>
>Remember: united we stand.... divided is
>something we do on MM
>to get attaboy pats on
>the back from other jackasses.
>
>
> Calling MM members jackasses that
>expressed their opinions and views
>here that are different from
>your own, Is that being
>"united" Zeke? Your comments too,
>sounds awful hypocritical.
>
>
>If i feel that "our" hunting
>heritage, still as it is,
>is being threatened by the
>actions of any particular group
>or several, dam straight, i'll
>speak my piece and not
>be influenced by defensive name
>calling which is best left
>in the "Political Forum".
>
>Joey


+1 Sage!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-02-15 AT 06:51PM (MST)[p]Sage,
I'm saying the LR group slinging lead irresponsibly and the archers flinging sticks like that are both jackassses. Yes I'm name calling...neither group is actual sportsmen and I would not label them as such. That was my point. I know you like to tangle with my after I didn't agree with you on the first go around with this, that's fine because I'm a big boy and not much at all hurts my feelings. I think you personally are a good sportsman and your heart is in the right place. Others not so much so I'll call them out. The intent of the original post served zero positive merit for any sportsmen. So that poster gets no respect from me at this point.

Now I'm out on this one for a couple days. Headed to 11,000 feet to sling flies at big tiger trout. Because barbless fly fishing is really the only true ethical way to fish........right???
 
73, there is ton's that we don't agree, no biggie, on but "my point", you said, "Don't judge other hunters and represent all hunters positively and we will be strong as a group."

Listen to yourself here in your last posts judging other hunters! You do nothing but judge other hunters yet you tell others here not to do so. I think a lot of people caught this too and i called you on it. Again, no biggie.

Good luck fishing! Fly fishing barbless or otherwise is my favorite way to catch fish. That said, i just like to fish and probably go most often with the various spinning outfits i'm partial to.

Joey



"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
It's Bullsshhitt You Guys are using Lures with Hooks on them!

Them things Hurt you know?





We laugh, we cry, we love
Go hard when the going's tough
Push back, come push and shove
Knock us down, we'll get back up again and again
We are Members of the Huntin Crowd!
 
Muley73,

I agree that there are irresponsible hunters in pretty much all styles of hunting but I still think you might be missing the point I was trying to make. In one scenario the buck has the ability to detect the hunter because the hunter was only 14 yards away whereas in the 2nd scenario the buck wasn't able to detect the hunters even though they were upwind, noisy and moving around in the open. Distance being the reason as to why the buck could or could not detect the hunter.

I know there's always going to be exceptions but in my experience 90-95% of the time if I'm greater than 600 yards from an animal I can be upwind, noisy and moving around without being detected. If a hunter is at such a great distance as to where the animal doesn't have the physical capability to detect the hunters presence then shooting said animal at this distance doesn't seem to be in the realm of fair chase in my mind.

In your scenario about the guys shooting from the truck the deer at least has the ability to detect the hunters even though I'm pretty sure this activity is illegal in ever state so probably not the best example to use as a comparison but at 20 yards the deer has the chance to detect the hunters and if the deer chooses not to run after sensing the hunters presence then that's the deers fault but at least it had the ability to detect the hunters.

Good luck on your fishing trip.
 
>>>BeDawg commented that the animal doesn't
>>>even know you're there at
>>>600( or was it 800?)
>>>yds. The last buck I
>>>killed with my bow didn't
>>>know I was there, either.
>>>14 yds.
>>>
>>>Marley says it best. Go hunt.
>>>Quitcherbitchin'.
>>>
>>>You can sure tell it's not
>>>hunting season...
>>
>>
>>BINGO!
>
>Bingo?????? You guys really don't
>see the huge difference between
>shooting a buck at 14
>yards and at 600-800 yards?
> Next time your 800
>yards from a buck stand
>up waive your hands and
>say "hey buck I'm over
>hear" and to top it
>off do it upwind of
>the buck. Now try
>to do the same thing
>but at 14 yards and
>see what happens. I
>guarantee you'll see the difference
>real quick.
>
>It takes a great amount of
>skill to consistently get 14
>yards from a buck.
>Getting this close to an
>animal is the epitome of
>hunting. You have to
>outwit your prey by overcoming
>all their senses. You
>have to play the wind,
>be as quite as a
>mouse and as invisible as
>a ghost all at the
>same time. The act
>of doing all this is
>what most would consider hunting.
>
>
>Now shooting an animal at 800
>yards is a bit different
>at least in my mind.
> A group of guys
>could drive up to a
>ridge upwind of a buck,
>get out of the truck
>while making a fair amount
>of noise, stand in
>the wide open to glass
>then after finding a buck
>yell "I got a buck"
>then proceed to clumsily get
>set up still being in
>the open while talking to
>his spotter who happens to
>be wearing a bright pink
>shirt with yellow shorts and
>wearing flip flops with a
>blue hat. Meanwhile the
>buck still has his nose
>to the ground eating showing
>no interest anything other than
>eating. The hunter gets
>ready and BOOM!!! You
>missed!" yells the spotter.
>Buck looks up for about
>10 seconds and then continues
>feeding. BOOM! "You
>missed again!" yelled the
>fashionably dresses spotter. This
>time the buck gets startled
>a bit from the rock
>that just blew up in-front
>of him and runs about
>10 yards and stops.
>BOOM! "You drilled him!
> He's done! He dropped
>in his tracks!" yells
>the spotter. By "drilled
>him" he meant the hunter
>shot him in the neck.
> To be
>fair this didn't happen at
>800 yards......It was at 779
>yards.
>
>If people can't see(admit) the huge
>difference between shooting an animal
>at 14 yards compared to
>800 yards then so be
>it.

When you pay for my tag, you can tell me how far or close to shoot. Deal?

You hunt your tag

I'll hunt mine
 
heffe,

These animals that are being shot at year after year from these extreme distances belong to everyone and not to any one hunter. Not until an animal is mortally hit does it then belong to one hunter(technically not until it's tagged). This conversation would be a bit different if hunters were assigned to one specific animal that only they were allowed kill but that's not the case now is it. If majority of hunters don't agree with the way I am hunting our big game that we all share then I would unselfishly respect my fellow hunters and hunt the way majority of the hunters feel is the appropriate way to hunt especially if my actions could have a negative impact on the sport. From the hunters I know and associate with majority of them are against long range hunting. That being said I still hunt with my long ranging buddies and assist them on their hunts whenever possible. While I disapprove of their hunting methods I don't have any ill feelings towards them or any hunter for that matter that happens to choose to take these long range shots.

All to frequently I hear that we hunters need to quit our bickering and stick together and I would like to believe that most of us would agree with this statement. The only problem is that there are far too many hunters that are not willing to do what is necessary for this to actually happen. I see no way for us hunters to "stick together" as long as there are guys not willing to modify the way they hunt in order to achieve some common ground between our differences. This "I will hunt the way I want to hunt" attitude that we tend to see with a lot of these types of conversations can not exists in a world where us hunters have any chance to get past our differences in order to actually stick together. Unfortunately as the way things are now I don't see this happening without some changes made in our current hunting laws and regulations.

I try my best to respect my fellow hunter and the game we pursue so naturally when I see something that I think is not good for our sport I feel an obligation to step up and voice my concern. I not only do this for me but for the future of hunting. In my mind this long range hunting trend is damaging to the sport so I'll continue to voice my concerns as will many others that share these same concerns as I do about the effects long range hunting are having on our sport. As long as the big game belongs to me and everyone else I will voice my concerns whenever I feel it necessary to do so and hopefully others will do the same to help ensure that our kids and their kids will have the same opportunity to enjoy hunting as we have had.

BTW how much did your deer tag cost this year heffe? I might just take you up on that offer of yours.
 
It's a sad, sad day. I never thought political correctness would reach the hunting community.

I'm a bowhunter, rifle hunter, muzzy hunter. My effective range with my bow right now is 50 yds. Muzzy...200 yds. Rifle? I've killed elk at 500(?) yds. The reason for the question mark is because I killed both of those elk before rangefinders were even an idea. Both one shot kills( lucky? probably not two of my best decisions in life). I don't have a long range setup. I once purchased a big 6X25X50 scope to put on my .300wm, but it still sits in the box...brand new. Never been put on a rifle. Anyone looking for a new scope?? :)

My feelers don't get hurt if someone calls me a "jackass" on this website. In fact, I laugh about it. People around here sure got some thin skin anymore.

Whether or not you want to admit it out loud, we all know there are plenty of "jackasses" in hunting.

We need the jackasses to quit being jackasses.

BTW, the 14 yard shot was taken from a tree stand. So I guess maybe I'm not a great white hunter?? Can someone please enlighten me?

Get over yourselves. Your way is not always the only way.
 

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