Backcountry Hunters and Anglers survey

Z

zeb14

New Member
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2
Anyone else recently get a survey in the mail from this outfit? At first glance they look like a legit hunting/fishing friendly organization, but a little background checking online reveals this is a "green decoy" group intent on fooling real sportsmen into funding a radical, anti-hunter organization.

Check it out:
https://www.activistfacts.com/organizations/backcountry-hunters-and-anglers/
http://www.americanlandscouncil.org/backcountry_hunters_anglers_reveals_thier_radical_side

I chucked my survey in the trash, but it occurred to me it's such a slick campaign, others may fill it out and maybe even innocently donate funds to a bad cause.

Buyer beware...
 
Or... they are a group of hunters and anglers that like hunting backcountry areas so they support limited roads and other types of development? They might even support traditionally liberal causes like wilderness advocacy, reduction or restriction of energy development on federal lands, etc.

Maybe the real trick is that some other groups that pose as conservation groups want to convert federal lands to state or private control and to drill, log, graze, subdivide and eventually sell them?

I think BHA represents a totally new consistency that scares the crap out of some of the real ?good ol? Boys? in the conservation group world.



Dax
 
I think it's odd when someone presents "facts" on a polarized subject from a obviously biased site. I support BHA because I hunt public land and personally believe land transfer will lead to privatization. However, I would not present that as fact, just my opinion. This post is like CNN calling Fox biased! They both are pick your cause based on your beliefs. Hard to find reals facts anymore.
 
>Anyone else recently get a survey
>in the mail from this
>outfit? At first glance they
>look like a legit hunting/fishing
>friendly organization, but a little
>background checking online reveals this
>is a "green decoy" group
>intent on fooling real sportsmen
>into funding a radical, anti-hunter
>organization.
>
>Check it out:
>https://www.activistfacts.com/organizations/backcountry-hunters-and-anglers/
>http://www.americanlandscouncil.org/backcountry_hunters_anglers_reveals_thier_radical_side
>
>I chucked my survey in the
>trash, but it occurred to
>me it's such a slick
>campaign, others may fill it
>out and maybe even innocently
>donate funds to a bad
>cause.
>
>Buyer beware...


So zeb, which one are you? Rick Berman or Will Coggin?

http://womwe.blogspot.com/2017/03/sb-236-senator-jedediah-hinkles.html?m=1
 
zeb14 shows up with his first post that is completely trash. My bet is he'll never be back.

The BHA Rendezvous 2019 is in Boise the first week of May. Last year they had speakers like Remi Warren, Steven Rinella, and Randy Newberg.

Everybody's welcome for a great time!

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
>zeb14 shows up with his first
>post that is completely trash.
>My bet is he'll never
>be back.
>
>The BHA Rendezvous 2019 is in
>Boise the first week of
>May. Last year they had
>speakers like Remi Warren, Steven
>Rinella, and Randy Newberg.
>
>Everybody's welcome for a great time!
>
>
>Grizzly
>
>-----------------------------------------
>"This is a classic case of
>a handful of greedy fly
>fishermen getting too greedy." -Don
>Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>told to KUTV
>
>"It's time to revisit the widely
>accepted principle in the United
>States and Canada that game
>is a public resource."
>-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>

I wouldn't mention Yvon either.?


#livelikezac
 
>>zeb14 shows up with his first
>>post that is completely trash.
>>My bet is he'll never
>>be back.
>>
>>The BHA Rendezvous 2019 is in
>>Boise the first week of
>>May. Last year they had
>>speakers like Remi Warren, Steven
>>Rinella, and Randy Newberg.
>>
>>Everybody's welcome for a great time!
>>
>>
>>Grizzly
>>
>>-----------------------------------------
>>"This is a classic case of
>>a handful of greedy fly
>>fishermen getting too greedy." -Don
>>Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>>told to KUTV
>>
>>"It's time to revisit the widely
>>accepted principle in the United
>>States and Canada that game
>>is a public resource."
>>-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>>quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>>
>
>I wouldn't mention Yvon either.?
>
>
>#livelikezac

Lmao ?
 
>I wouldn't mention Yvon either.?
>
>
>#livelikezac

What about the dozens of other speakers and presenters that aren't household names among the hunting crowd due to having their own TV shows?

If you'd like to write a complete list, you're welcome to. But for clarity's sake, I'll just keep it limited to people well-known on MM.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
>>I wouldn't mention Yvon either.?
>>
>>
>>#livelikezac
>
>What about the dozens of other
>speakers and presenters that aren't
>household names among the hunting
>crowd due to having their
>own TV shows?
>
>If you'd like to write a
>complete list, you're welcome to.
>But for clarity's sake, I'll
>just keep it limited to
>people well-known on MM.
>
>Grizzly
>
>-----------------------------------------
>"This is a classic case of
>a handful of greedy fly
>fishermen getting too greedy." -Don
>Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>told to KUTV
>
>"It's time to revisit the widely
>accepted principle in the United
>States and Canada that game
>is a public resource."
>-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>

With all the threads you guys have created on this topic on this site I'm guessin more know Yvon than Remmi.


#livelikezac
 
Those that look will see that BHA have no problem aligning with openly anti hunting groups. Sure there are some outdoor celebrities willing the jump on board. Reminds me of other celebrities that I don't align my personal views with either.
 
I agree with the overall premise of BHA, and I think they are good for balance in the mission. I've made no mistake about some of their connections that make me uneasy and I don't like.

There are those that will yell at you and tell you how stupid you are when you bring those things up. It would probably just be better to acknowledge that politics makes odd bedfellows and support the causes one supports.
 
Seems this post unintentionally hit a nerve with some, so I did quite a bit more research on BHA and some of the tangential issues brought up in the replies.

Based on the bio's of their Board members and the list of well-recognized companies sponsoring them, it seems that this is a legit organization. As with most non-profits, I don't necessarily see eye-to-eye with them on the details of every cause they've undertaken, and some of their leadership background and associations give me serious pause. But by and large, they appear to be engaging in real issues of interest to hunters and fishermen, and seem to be generally trying to develop consensus among affected parties for sound, long-term policy and management. That likely scares the hell out of some well-established special interests, which would explain much of the one-sided web content that pops up in some search engines.

So, I stand corrected. I should have done more research before forming an opinion and posting a "warning" message here.

That said, I was taken aback by some of the comments and assumptions made. Yes, this was my first post though I've been a regular reader of MM forums for years. A pattern I've noted about web forums is that people like to belittle those they disagree with. Calling out someone by saying they posted obvious trash and betting they won't return is a great way to alienate fellow sportsmen and ensure they won't share with you again.

I think we'd all be well-advised to remember we're collectively a ridiculous minority in our country's overall population, and if we can't have civil and serious conversations among ourselves, how do we expect to protect our hunting heritage for future generations?

A house divided cannot stand...
 
If you've been following for awhile you should have also noticed another pattern, people with an agenda creating a screen name and popping in to push their agenda. That being said, I agree with most of your 2nd post.



#livelikezac
 
Ill only add this. Today I got a legislative call to action from BHA to contact your congressmen and urge them to fund LWCF(land water conservation fund).

Argue about Yvon, libs, ECT all day, but you all have zero excuse to not support LWCF passage.

LEE. (202) 224-5444

HATCH (202) 224- 5251

BISHOP (202) 225-0453
(801) 625-0107


Id be happy to get the same calls for DU, NRA, RMEF, MDF, and even my friends at $fw.

This is a big picture issue ALL outdoor enthusiasts can agree on.

Drop the call.

OP, glad you did a little reading and found out what's up.





From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
>Those that look will see that
>BHA have no problem aligning
>with openly anti hunting groups.
> Sure there are some
>outdoor celebrities willing the jump
>on board. Reminds me
>of other celebrities that I
>don't align my personal views
>with either.

Rumor is Jason Chaffetz was booked by $fw for their expo.

I'd worry way more about some "celebrity".

As always ride that fence brother!


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Nobody mentioned either that they supported Wyoming's grizzly hunt getting cancelled. If Land Tawney was as good at getting access and aligning with true hunters as he is at tapping kegs I'd consider joining.
 
>Nobody mentioned either that they supported
>Wyoming's grizzly hunt getting cancelled.
>If Land Tawney was as
>good at getting access and
>aligning with true hunters as
>he is at tapping kegs
>I'd consider joining.

Got a link for that?


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
I'll restate they wouldn't make a statement and they also didn't distance themselves when Yvon and his Patagonia cronies were helping with the shutdown
 
>I'll restate they wouldn't make a
>statement and they also didn't
>distance themselves when Yvon and
>his Patagonia cronies were helping
>with the shutdown


So that's a "no", I have no proof.

Patagonia probably was against it. Not sure why them helping on public land issues hinges on Wyoming Grizzly?

Don't join, they will get by without your $25. But don't go around making up stuff either.

Guess what. The Montana fish and game was against it in Montana. Guess you'll be going after them now for "green decoys" too?





From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Vanilla finally admitted that Patagonia is a supporter of Utah Stream Access... as he said, sometimes it makes strange bedfellows.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
>Hoss have you ever looked at
>their financials?

Don't get sidetracked.

Nobody mentioned either that they supported Wyoming's grizzly hunt getting cancelled.

Where are you finding this. I actually searched. If you ACTUALLY have something, post it. Then open minded folks can look at it.

Yvon SPOKE at BHA rendezvous. I'm missing the "conspiracy" that they will work with non traditional partners to achieve their goals. They do it openly.



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
^^ I too would like more transparency and have asked for it.

If BHA concerns you, I'd recommend looking into TRCP as they have similar public lands goals but better financial transparency and very good charity rankings.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-26-18 AT 04:28PM (MST)[p]>I'll restate they wouldn't make a
>statement

ORIONTHEHUNTER,

Not true...and I can prove it.

BHA has always promoted the North American Model and State Management of all game and non-game wildlife, including the Wyoming State Grizzly Bear Management plan.

Before you make any more unfounded, and untrue claims, do some research.

You're out of line.
 
Sure post a quote from BHA's head office specifically backing a Wyoming grizzly hunt. Not your Wyoming chapter. Buzz you also care to discuss their 990?
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-26-18 AT 04:37PM (MST)[p]>Sure post a quote from BHA's
>head office specifically backing a
>Wyoming grizzly hunt. Not your
>Wyoming chapter. Buzz you also
>care to discuss their 990?
>

They did make a statement, saying they fully support the NAM and State Management of ALL game, fish, furbearers, etc. etc.

What about their 990's? Doesn't look any different to me than many of the other conservation groups. You cant be effective in advocating for wildlife, public lands, etc. etc. when you don't have employees to do so. I don't expect people who work on the complicated issues of public lands, access, wildlife, wildlife management, etc. etc. full-time to work for free.

Its also impossible to have volunteer state and provincial chapter leaders advocate on local issues without help from paid staff.

Its obvious you have an agenda...and an ax to grind.

Grind away, just be truthful.
 
>Pretty sad 990 form. It's hard
>to buy access when over
>a million dollars of your
>budget is going to wages
>and compensation.
>
>
>https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.n...17-12-31_990_BH_A_-_PUBLIC_(1).pdf?1539988551

How many more posts until you get to the one that shows they worked against grizzly hunting?

$131,400 for Tawney, somehow that's a conspiracy?

Again. WHERE IS THE PROOF they are working against hunting?

I take money from a bunch of liberal folks. If you have a job so do you. Does that make you a lib?

Show where that money they take is used AGAINST hunting, ill be glad to look at it. Short of that, you just don't like the group. Your free to dislike them, but if your gonna make accusations, THEN BACK IT UP.

From where I sit, they don't take in much money, yet they sure seem to be a huge threat to folks that want to privatize 600 million acres. Enough so that smear campaigns are set up to lie about them. Fake PR is done about them, etc, etc, etc.

Sometimes you learn more about groups by who oppose them than anything else.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Let's see you posted no direct statement they made backing a Wyoming grizzly hunt.

Out of a 4.5 million dollar budget they spent:
131,400 in compensation to officers
823,843 in salaries
1.6 million in advertising
219,000 in office expenses
210,000 in travel
86,000 for conferences and meetings
20,000 in staff development
and a whopping 867 dollars in lobbying. Nobody said they need to work for free, but seriously looks like a lot of hot air and travel and not much action.
 
?Vanilla finally admitted that Patagonia is a supporter of Utah Stream Access... as he said, sometimes it makes strange bedfellows.?

Grizz, you phrase this as if it was something I was trying to hide?

I didn't ?finally? do anything. I will always acknowledge facts. Wish others would do the same.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-26-18 AT 05:11PM (MST)[p]>Let's see you posted no direct
>statement they made backing a
>Wyoming grizzly hunt.
>
>Out of a 4.5 million dollar
>budget they spent:
>131,400 in compensation to officers
>823,843 in salaries
>1.6 million in advertising
>219,000 in office expenses
>210,000 in travel
>86,000 for conferences and meetings
>20,000 in staff development
>and a whopping 867 dollars in
>lobbying. Nobody said they need
>to work for free, but
>seriously looks like a lot
>of hot air and travel
>and not much action.

Nothing there to cause me any alarm on the expenses of running a national organization of this size. Travel, salaries, office expenses, all the cost of doing business.

Not much action?

That's funny.

https://www.backcountryhunters.org/wyoming_bha
 
If Niller ever admitted anything if would Be 'finally'!:D







I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>Let's see you posted no direct
>statement they made backing a
>Wyoming grizzly hunt.
>
>Out of a 4.5 million dollar
>budget they spent:
>131,400 in compensation to officers
>823,843 in salaries
>1.6 million in advertising
>219,000 in office expenses
>210,000 in travel
>86,000 for conferences and meetings
>20,000 in staff development
>and a whopping 867 dollars in
>lobbying. Nobody said they need
>to work for free, but
>seriously looks like a lot
>of hot air and travel
>and not much action.

Still WAITING for that proof you have backing your statement that they worked against Grizzly Hunting. Can we just admit THERE IS NO PROOF, so you've now tried to spin into some convoluted financial twist.

How about, "I don't like BHA", and just leave it at that.

My bet, if we pulled MDF, DU, NRA, Pheasants forever, etc they have paid employees, advertising, etc. And a bunch of them take gov money in the form of tags to auction.

I realize the "hippie redneck" thing is hard for some to grasp, but you either evolve or die. We can take folks like Yvon help when its offered, and fits our causes, or we just fight everyone all the time, and bankrupt ourselves doing so.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
>See what I mean?
>
>It's all good elkass, every forum
>needs one. You?re our one.
>

I'm RAZZIN Ya Niller!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
ORIONTHEHUNTER,

I'm not going 15 rounds with you. However, what you accused BHA of is an outright lie. You said, "Nobody mentioned either that they supported Wyoming's grizzly hunt getting cancelled."

You demand proof of a statement, I'll now ask for your proof that BHA supported Wyoming's grizzly hunt being cancelled. If you cant provide a statement, then I will be left to assume you're either uninformed or a flat liar.

To further illustrate how far out of line you are, I was contacted by Land to talk with a fellow BHA member that had drawn one of the NR grizzly tags about where to hunt, what to expect, etc.

Here's your statement...now, show me where BHA backed the decision, made by a court, to stop the grizzly hunt.

If you cant provide such, there in no need for further discussion.

BHA is a proponent of the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation and the Public Trust Doctrine that define fish and wildlife resources as the property of the people and managed on our behalf by state agencies entrusted with their stewardship. This proven conservation model is the foundation of science-based fish and wildlife management we put our trust in state agencies to ensure that decisions are being guided by science.

The grizzly bear is a remarkable ESA success story with strong population growth and expansion across the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. Grizzly bear population recovery and habitat goals have been met for many years now and with the species flourishing across Idaho, Montana and Wyoming, Backcountry Hunters & Anglers fully supports the decision by wildlife professionals at the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to delist grizzlies and transition management back to the states.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-27-18 AT 07:44AM (MST)[p]Still no statement you can provide either Buzz???
I guess that makes you a liar since you cannot provide one press release or actual posted statement that shows BHA supporting a grizzly hunt in Wyoming.
 
>Still no statement you can provide
>either Buzz???

You had all night to Google. Where is the proof to back your statement that bha supported anti Grizz efforts?

Like has been pointed out over and over, your free to axe grind, but all your doing is showing yet another myth that gets made up surrounding BHA.

Through out your proof, and finally put a nail in those guts coffin.

Or just be part of the Alex Jones crowd.

Did you call YOUR congressmen yet and urge them to support LWCF funding? If not, why not? BHA guys are


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-27-18 AT 10:51AM (MST)[p]>LAST EDITED ON Nov-27-18
>AT 07:44?AM (MST)
>
>Still no statement you can provide
>either Buzz???
>I guess that makes you a
>liar since you cannot provide
>one press release or actual
>posted statement that shows BHA
>supporting a grizzly hunt in
>Wyoming.

Yes, I did provide a statement...if you cant understand what was written, that's not my problem.

Further, you can listen to the GF commission meeting on line where a WYBHA board member testified in favor of the Wyoming Game and Fish Grizzly Bear Management Plan. That Plan fully supports the current grizzly bear hunting season as adopted by the WYGF Commission.

That's a public comment, a statement of fact, and on the record.

Now, where is your proof of BHA opposing WY Grizzly bear season and hunt as adopted by the GF Commission?

I smell some rags burning...I think its your pants on fire.
 
Again you and Hoss have provided no such statement I specifically said where did BHA national not the Wyoming chapter publically back the Wyoming grizzly hunt. Your reiterating the north American model has nothing to do with them publicly backing the hunt. Smell all the rags you want I stated that they did not verbally or issued a press release stating they supported the hunt. You said you could prove it and I was lying but you haven't. I will ask again like I have previously show me where BHA National chapter issued a press release or went on record supporting the grizzly hunt in Wyoming.
 
>Maybe that 500,000+ they spent on
>beer last year has hurt
>your reading comprehension.


This BS of yours is getting old, so why not take it somewhere else and quit wasting our time on this site!!!
 
Top,
That is funny! I like to see the different views and posts. Some of your are ultra sensitive when an opposing view is posted. But then again I guess somebody out there had to raise those snowflakes.
 
>Top,
>That is funny! I like
>to see the different views
>and posts. Some of
>your are ultra sensitive when
>an opposing view is posted.
> But then again I
>guess somebody out there had
>to raise those snowflakes.

Not funny at all Cody! Yes, different views are great, but the guy obviously does not like BHA for reasons he keeps repeating and then mentions people lack reading comprehension, duh! He continues to bring up stuff that is not unique about BHA, as stated by several members. He has asked BuzzH a number of times for facts and BuzzH has told him exactly where he can find proof of what he is asking about BHA and their stance on grizzly hunting. Nope, IMHO he doesn't want the truth, but rather to just keep stirring the pot when if he would do as mentioned he'd shut up and look for something else to be riled up about. There are certainly plenty of them out there!

Hope you and your Dad had a good Fall this year like I did!
 
"Not funny at all Cody! Yes, different views are great, but the guy obviously does not like BHA for reasons he keeps repeating and then mentions people lack reading comprehension, duh! He continues to bring up stuff that is not unique about BHA, as stated by several members. He has asked BuzzH a number of times for facts and BuzzH has told him exactly where he can find proof of what he is asking about BHA and their stance on grizzly hunting. Nope, IMHO he doesn't want the truth, but rather to just keep stirring the pot when if he would do as mentioned he'd shut up and look for something else to be riled up about. There are certainly plenty of them out there"

Hello kettle...
 
DW- that analogy made me chuckle, and I can't disagree with it. While Patagonia has supported Utah's fight for stream access, as I've stated before, they are no friend to hunters and my reasons for saying that are documented. Anyone that has eyes and wants to see can find it on their own.

All that said, that doesn't mean you have to refuse to work with anyone on a topic that you don't agree with on a different topic. We would grind every issue to a halt if that were the case. And as I stated above, politics makes odd bedfellows, and that is okay. But like the old analogy of the boy that picks of the rattlesnake to bring him down the mount and save its life and got bit at the bottom...you have to know what these groups are when you pick them up, and proceed cautiously.
 
David Peterson got us a real nice bear population here in Colorado. Hes a big BHA guy.


https://www.thesunmagazine.org/issues/408/the-good-hunter



87948screenshot20181127144631chrome.jpg




#livelikezac
 
+1 tikka

It is amazing how one group is associated group wide and another group is not.

I would like to see the same understanding from Hoss,Buzz and Top for SFW, Republican's and the DWR. You all like to lump everyone in there respeted organization together. But do not like to see all BHA LUMPED TOGETHER.
I already know Hoss about the Republican platform but please that is subject to interpretation.
 
I cant believe there hasn't been 20 links posted of BHA professing their full support of the grizzly hunt and all the actions they took leading up to the hunt. Seems odd?



#livelikezac
 
You've made your point about Patagonia and grizzly hunting. That is one example of a speaker at a BHA Convention that took a position with which you disagree. Guilt by association is a horrible litmus test, especially when there are dozens of other corporate sponsors of BHA that don't share Patagonia's views on grizzlies. You're picking an exception, rather than a rule, and trying to apply it to an organization.

If you really seek truth, you've already done your research regarding BHA's corporate sponsors before slandering the organization and you know who they associate with... https://www.backcountryhunters.org/corporate_partners

BHA's non-relationship with the grizzly issue is much different than SFW, who has had actual formal Chapters speak in favor of the land grab, who's founder has made extremely damaging quotes regarding hunting and fishing (see below), and who fought against the bill that delisted wolves before being called out publicly by SCI and NRA.

Even the vaunted NRA has taken pro-drilling/anti-hunting positions that have been well-documented on this site and others.

You guys want to attack BHA on a lack of position and a friend-of-a-friend quote, yet ignore the actual organizational anti-public-land-hunting positions of those you espouse.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
I guess people may just be waiting for you to "finally admit" that things can get complicated in these issues, Grizz.
 
>I guess people may just be
>waiting for you to "finally
>admit" that things can get
>complicated in these issues, Grizz.
>

Especially to those that live in a world of distortion, false truths, and wanton ignorance.

The people banging the grizzly drum on this subject are grasping at distant straws trying to make connections by association. It's weak, at best.

Those same people ignore the organizational problems of the groups they worship even though the chain of attachment is MUCH shorter and stronger.

I've criticized BHA for lack of transparency in this thread and others. I've supported Patagonia on their public land work while criticizing them on their bison/grizzly hunting positions. I'll call it like it is. As I've said in the past, when SFW fights the land grab, I'll join up. I'm beholden to nobody.

It's too bad others are stuck in blind ignorance. Have you researched BHA's official corporate sponsors on the link I posted? If not, you're as bad as the rest. Start going after those companies for supporting BHA. Do your research and criticize evenly.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
It seems to me a lot of the mucky mucks of BHA are gushy over apex predators. That in and of itself is enough for me.



#livelikezac
 
>It seems to me a lot
>of the mucky mucks of
>BHA are gushy over apex
>predators. That in and of
>itself is enough for me.
>
>
>
>
>#livelikezac

Last I looked only one political party has on their platform land transfer. Also, I do live in Utah, outside of SLC, there aren't democrats, so its an easy target.

I read that Montana fish and game wasn't supportive of a Grizz hunt. I assume they are commie libs now? And yup there are on record statements.

I'm sure $fw is pro Grizz hunting. Problem is if they had there way it would be on private land. I doubt highly the Wilks bros or BP are letting you all hunt their ground.

Its funny to me that guys fear Patagonia and Yvon, apparently they are pretty powerful, yet when they are on our side they don't want to use that power?

The Bison hunt in Yellowstone is a joke, but that's not on Patagonia, its on the jackass management of bison by ag department, not Fish and game.

Like I said to Orion. SHOW ME where someone in the ACTUAL leadership is working against hunting, or financing it, ill walk. But I know the email I get from them, and its 100% working to save habitat and increase access to public land.

And I like beer, although I haven't made a pint night. Last I checked the beer companies pump $$$$ into our sport, what's the issue with that?

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Grizz, I haven't mentioned the grizzly hunt or its connection to BHA one time here in this thread.

Keep grasping at straws, my man. Or you can just ?finally admit? that if someone has a different opinion than you, it doesn't make them uneducated. In the trade we call that a fallacy...
 
>if someone has
>a different opinion than you,
>it doesn't make them uneducated.

If their opinion is based upon a foundation of lack of knowledge, whether willful or negligent, they are, by definition, uneducated on that subject.

Who amongst the posters on this thread attempting to tie BHA to a campaign against the grizzly hunt would you say is educated on the subject? Who do you think has really dug into and uncovered knowledge or evidence on BHA supporting a grizzly hunt ban? There has literally not been a shred of evidence linking BHA to grizzly hunting outside Buzz's posts in support of it. How are these guys educated when they can't post a single quote to back up their accusations? It's unsubstantiated conjecture and you know it.

In fact, the OP even came back on and admitted his first post was based on a lack of knowledge and research. At least he was man enough to come back and say, "I stand corrected. I should have done more research before forming an opinion."

The reason that "green decoy" crap was invented by the land grabbers is because BHA is a threat to their goals of privatizing public lands. Public land hunters should realize they're scared for a reason. BHA is effective and it terrifies the land grabbers.

Yvon is a CEO of a different company who spoke at an event. Are you ready to redirect your attacks on BHA based upon that event towards the corporate sponsors of BHA? Weatherby, First Lite, Sitka, Leupold, Federal Ammunition, etc... Guilt by association, right! If they support BHA, who supports public land and grizzly hunting, but allowed the CEO of a company that opposes grizzly hunting to speak at a convention, they therefore must secretly oppose grizzly hunting; even though there is zero evidence of that connection. That seems to be your train of thought here.

Those corporate sponsors are probably secret liberal hippies trying to infiltrate hunting to incrementally close it down... that makes sense. It's time you lower the boom on supporters of BHA. I provided the link. Fire away!

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
David Peterson founded the Colorado chapter of BHA and is adamantly against the grizzly hunt in Wyoming just ask him. He was also instrumental in us losing our spring bear season. The guy is nothing more than a wolf in sheep's clothing.
 
>I dont think Yvon is powerful,
>I think hes a fruit
>loop.

Then why do you keep bringing him back up?

Grizzly
 
>David Peterson founded the Colorado chapter
>of BHA and is adamantly
>against the grizzly hunt in
>Wyoming just ask him.

Call the Wyoming and Utah Directors for BHA and ask them if they support grizzly hunting. They do. They'll tell you. Point and counterpoint.

I can find Trump supporters that are white supremacists. Did you vote for Trump? Does that make you a white supremacist? Does that make Trump a white supremacist?

You guys are all basing this on guilt by association. Unbelievable!

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-27-18 AT 06:45PM (MST)[p]My train of thought? Ha! That's rich. I haven't made a comment about any of that. I dislike Patagonia, no doubt. I haven't even likened that to BHA. You?re now just making crap up on the fly. Not sure where you're pulling my thinking for that long post you just pulled out.

I'll tell you, you and hoss are no different from the SFW fan boys we see on here. You all make me consider that old saying, ?the lady doth protest too much, methinks.? Why are you all trying so hard and being so defensive? Why all the af hominems? What are they hiding that they don't want us to know when they continually redirect from the topics at hand?

Keep doing you though.

As for all those people you're asking me to defend, why don't you ask them yourself? I don't speak for them.
 
Shows what Petersen knows about Bears!

They Are Nasty Tasting Basty's!












I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
Do I Need to Post the Birdie/Bear Pic?








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
I'm an equal opportunity critic. I've criticized BHA, NRA, and SFW. Some more than others. I supported Patagonia until somebody (maybe you?) enlightened me on their bison position. I've never defended them since. SFW needs to go away. NRA needs to get out of oil interests, and BHA needs to improve financial transparency to be like TRCP, whom I supported as an alternative to BHA early in this thread. As I've shown, I'm beholden to no organization. Just the public lands that I love.

We can disagree all day, but nobody can say I don't have my information in order. I can back up every post I've made in detail (most of which people don't take the time to read anyway). There was no redirection in my posts, always on topic of OP or a response to a previous post.

Interesting that your posts were folk stories about rattlesnakes and axioms about protesting as well as an attack on me, the messenger... all under the guise of redirection.

If you'd like to have a substantive discussion, I'm all ears. But until then, this conversation with you is fruitless.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
>I'm an equal opportunity critic. I've
>criticized BHA, NRA, and SFW.
>Some more than others. I
>supported Patagonia until somebody (maybe
>you?) enlightened me on their
>bison position. I've never defended
>them since. SFW needs to
>go away. NRA needs to
>get out of oil interests,
>and BHA needs to improve
>financial transparency to be like
>TRCP, whom I supported as
>an alternative to BHA early
>in this thread. As I've
>shown, I'm beholden to no
>organization. Just the public lands
>that I love.
>
>We can disagree all day, but
>nobody can say I don't
>have my information in order.
>I can back up every
>post I've made in detail
>(most of which people don't
>take the time to read
>anyway). There was no redirection
>in my posts, always on
>topic of OP or a
>response to a previous post.
>
>
>Interesting that your posts were folk
>stories about rattlesnakes and axioms
>about protesting as well as
>an attack on me, the
>messenger... all under the guise
>of redirection.
>
>If you'd like to have a
>substantive discussion, I'm all ears.
>But until then, this conversation
>with you is fruitless.
>
>Grizzly
>
>-----------------------------------------
>"This is a classic case of
>a handful of greedy fly
>fishermen getting too greedy." -Don
>Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>told to KUTV
>
>"It's time to revisit the widely
>accepted principle in the United
>States and Canada that game
>is a public resource."
>-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>

Hey grizzly!

Best add RMEF to your List!

They Backed out on Local Banquets because the Economy Ain't as Strong as it once was!

They still woulda made Great Money!

They Support Every Move the Big Game Board Makes!

No matter whether it's Right or Wrong!

UN-F'N-REAL!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-27-18
>AT 06:45?PM (MST)
>
>My train of thought? Ha! That's
>rich. I haven't made a
>comment about any of that.
>I dislike Patagonia, no doubt.
>I haven't even likened that
>to BHA. You?re now just
>making crap up on the
>fly. Not sure where you're
>pulling my thinking for that
>long post you just pulled
>out.
>
>I'll tell you, you and hoss
>are no different from the
>SFW fan boys we see
>on here. You all make
>me consider that old saying,
>?the lady doth protest too
>much, methinks.? Why are
>you all trying so hard
>and being so defensive? Why
>all the af hominems? What
>are they hiding that they
>don't want us to know
>when they continually redirect from
>the topics at hand?
>
>Keep doing you though.
>
>As for all those people you're
>asking me to defend, why
>don't you ask them yourself?
>I don't speak for them.
>

I have a BHA membership. I donated to a fund raiser by a dude to cut his hair and beard. I spent $25 to enter the year end drawing. Never been to pint night. Never met Grizz. Been pounding on the national leadership to quit "hiding" in Boise and put the Rendevous in Utah. Basically stick it in either Lee's or Bishops face, depending on election cycles. They are getting tired of me I'm sure.

I hold no leadership position.

I protest because I've grown up here, and watched as good folks were hoodwinked, defrauded, cheated, by "authority figures".Utahns are always near the top on lists of financial fraud because they trust these authority guys, who then screw them. The current leaders of land grabs use their ties to the church, family legacy, and the justified uneasiness with the fed brought about from Mormon persecution.
That's the protest.

Bison, Grizzlies, Patagonia, are all smoke screens. Flat out lies, that are spread by folks who cannot be honest about what they want. Lee, Bishop, etc wouldn't get a single vote if they ran on selling all of Utah's public land. So they lie to you, use propagandists in DC to attack those who oppose them. They try to tell you your enemy is some hippy coat maker, or some beer drinker from Montana. That's why I protest, loudly anymore.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
SWEAR TO GAWD!

We ought to get an MM Octagon Built!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>>I dont think Yvon is powerful,
>>I think hes a fruit
>>loop.
>
>Then why do you keep bringing
>him back up?
>
>Grizzly

I'm just pointin out the known fruit loops yer floating next to. At some point it'll get to be hard to pick em out.


#livelikezac
 
?If you'd like to have a substantive discussion, I'm all ears. But until then, this conversation with you is fruitless.?

Grizz, finally you and I agree 100% on something. I knew the day would come eventually.

The funny thing is you keep posting responses to things I never even said. Go ahead and fight that one out with whomever you're fighting it out with, though. It's entertaining to watch.
 
>I'm having trouble washing the blood
>out of my patagonia snap
>t. Any suggestions?

Saw a dude last night on the plane with Patagonia visor. I guess I should of punched that hippy. But he would have bled all over that KUIU jacket he was wearing.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
>I'm having trouble washing the blood
>out of my patagonia snap
>t. Any suggestions?

Yeah, use it as toilet paper! Patagonia is an eco-terror group, plain and simple. As a proud 5th generation rancher I could never support a group who has an activist wing dedicated to ending ranching. And it sickens me to see how some of you folks who claim to be sportsmen get in bed with groups who hate agriculture and family ranches. I will wager I have done more for wildlife in my 50 years as a rancher than some groups do in a lifetime. That isn't bravado, its simply a fact.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-18 AT 04:46PM (MST)[p]Well said Desert. BHA has no problem aligning with groups that have openly fought against the way of life many of us choose to live. They are not a friend of hunters as a whole. They are a green organization. They are no different than the Sierra Club when it started.
 
>Well said Desert. BHA has
>no problem aligning with groups
>that have openly fought for
>the way of life many
>of us choose to live.
> They are not a
>friend of hunters as a
>whole. They are a
>green organization. They are
>no different than the Sierra
>Club when it started.


Tell your dad, when he draws, I will come out and be camp cook. And when he gets tired of your poor guiding skills, I'll help him kill a good deer. I usually don't get in these mud slinging contests, but the propaganda being quoted as gospel is ridiculous. Be good amigo.
 
>Patagonia is an eco-terror group,
>plain and simple. As a
>proud 5th generation rancher I
>could never support a group
>who has an activist wing
>dedicated to ending ranching.

Are you the type of 5th generation rancher that aligns with Cliven Bundy to seize public land?

Public land hunters could never support a group that arms themselves to invade a bird refuge, which was paid for by sportsmen dollars, in support of people accused of poaching deer and starting a fire to cover it up?

You might want to reexamine your eco-terror claims.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
Here We Go!

I'm CHILLIN Another DEW!

The DEW I Had at 2 AM is wearing off!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>>Patagonia is an eco-terror group,
>>plain and simple. As a
>>proud 5th generation rancher I
>>could never support a group
>>who has an activist wing
>>dedicated to ending ranching.
>
>Are you the type of 5th
>generation rancher that aligns with
>Cliven Bundy to seize public
>land?
>
>Public land hunters could never support
>a group that arms themselves
>to invade a bird refuge,
>which was paid for by
>sportsmen dollars, in support of
>people accused of poaching deer
>and starting a fire to
>cover it up?
>
>You might want to reexamine your
>eco-terror claims.
>
>Grizzly
>
>-----------------------------------------
>"This is a classic case of
>a handful of greedy fly
>fishermen getting too greedy." -Don
>Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>told to KUTV
>
>"It's time to revisit the widely
>accepted principle in the United
>States and Canada that game
>is a public resource."
>-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>

Hey Grizzly!

I Don't Think Your Post was Quite Necessary!

I Can Guaran-Damn-tee You that DesertRanch is Nothing Like the Bundys!

But Hey!

It's been a While since We Talked about LaVoy getting Murdered!

Carry On!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
Grizz,
That's a reach, but how about and overreaching government. You?re all about big government and control i take it? Or only when it's giving you what you want. You have to pull out comments like that because the BHA doesn't have enough value to stand on its own merit. In fact the reason it aligns with anti hunting groups is because it's not a big enough voice on its own. Now comes the part where you roll out celebrity hunters to show how powerful the voice is. BHA is ok to align with antihuntinf groups because many of their members are not hunters first. That's an issue down the road when these other groups turn on them. Again the same path as the Sierra Club.
 
>>>Patagonia is an eco-terror group,
>>>plain and simple. As a
>>>proud 5th generation rancher I
>>>could never support a group
>>>who has an activist wing
>>>dedicated to ending ranching.
>>
>>Are you the type of 5th
>>generation rancher that aligns with
>>Cliven Bundy to seize public
>>land?
>>
>>Public land hunters could never support
>>a group that arms themselves
>>to invade a bird refuge,
>>which was paid for by
>>sportsmen dollars, in support of
>>people accused of poaching deer
>>and starting a fire to
>>cover it up?
>>
>>You might want to reexamine your
>>eco-terror claims.
>>
>>Grizzly
>>
>>-----------------------------------------
>>"This is a classic case of
>>a handful of greedy fly
>>fishermen getting too greedy." -Don
>>Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>>told to KUTV
>>
>>"It's time to revisit the widely
>>accepted principle in the United
>>States and Canada that game
>>is a public resource."
>>-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>>quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>>
>
>Hey Grizzly!
>
>I Don't Think Your Post was
>Quite Necessary!
>
>I Can Guaran-Damn-tee You that DesertRanch
>is Nothing Like the Bundys!
>
>
>But Hey!
>
>It's been a While since We
>Talked about LaVoy getting Murdered!
>
>
>Carry On!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:
How dare you or anyone question BHA and grizz, they are the elite of the elite...
 
I'm Warning You!

I'm Working on Posting That Wolf/Birdie Pic!










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
The Bundy's are the leading voice in ranching today. They were front page of FoxNews just today for calling Trump a fear-mongerer over immigration. They travel the west speaking to the ranching community about their anti-public land beliefs. If somebody wants to claim ranching as pro-hunting credentials, the Bundy's are a fair part of the discussion in today's world.

DesertRanch may be an awesome dude and a great friend of hunters. I don't know. Which is why I asked if he ascribed to the Bundy's ludicrous and self-serving beliefs. He can say in one post that he does not agree with Bundy's. It's up to him. I truly hope he's not that type of rancher.

I don't know of Patagonia ever shutting down a highway in an armed standoff or seizing a public building with firearms; so to hear somebody calling someone else a terrorist and following it with a self-description as a rancher... that's a fair question.

What is the basis for his eco-terrorist claims about Patagonia?

As I said, I don't even defend Patagonia... but slanderous accusations like that should be challenged. Heck, I'm not even completely sold on BHA but to hear the same old SFW fan boys repeat baseless accusations over and over again will be met head-on. Prove your point. Vanilla provided evidence of Patagonia's position on bison a decade ago and I conceded he had a valid point and agreed with him. So far nobody can back their claims regarding BHA, but they continue to increase in ferocity despite the lack of evidence.

I've provided scores of posts with quotes, numbers, reports, audits, etc... as to why I don't like SFW. You'd think somebody could have a substantive foundation to back their position as well.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
>Grizz,
>That's a reach, but how about
>and overreaching government. You?re
>all about big government and
>control i take it?

You know absolutely nothing about me. Next time you're in town I'll buy you lunch and you'll see my beliefs have nothing to do with supporting big government. We might get along better than you think.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
Grizz,
I'm not talking about SFW. But that's what you always have to fall back on. You think I'm a SFW fan boy yet that couldn't be further from the truth.

Then one rancher gives an opinion on hunters, ranchers and the relationship they've had over the past 100 years and you immediately march out the Bundys. That is the modern tactic of our society these days i guess. Just like those that don't like Trump immediately call him or liken him to Hitler. Your tactics fall exactly in line with those that would fight to the bitter end to stop all hunting. I can't help but think they are already rubbing off on BHA members and supports like yourself.

I've had multiple arguements over wolves, hunter access and hunter impact with ?hardcore? BHA members. At one point i was starting to be a fan and actually followed them on IG. It's was their base and followers that opened my eyes to the groups and logic that they supported. I've never made a single thing up or accustion of BHA that wasn?t first crammed down my throat by the BHA member or supporter.
 
BHA takes the GREENIE Side on Wolves!

Nuff Said!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-18 AT 09:18PM (MST)[p]I keep reading about the "anti hunter" BHA.

But I keep tripping on this.


>>"It's time to revisit the widely
>>accepted principle in the United
>>States and Canada that game
>>is a public resource."
>>-Don Peay, Founder of SFW

Funny how the first is fairytale, the second is on public record.


You would think Desert would be pissed at folks like the Bundys who don't pay their grazing fees then try to hide their mooching as gov overreach.


Hey Muley, speaking of "big gov", how many welfare tags are your buddy's over at $FW getting this year? BHA is getting ZERO.

Desert. When the Lee, Bishops of the world get land transferred to BP or the Wilks, your grazing allotments are gone. And with hay near 200 a ton, so is ranching.



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Hey Hoss,
What is BHA doing to help wildlife? Serious question. SFW can show many many many projects, habitat, guzzlers, Highway tunnels, etc. How about BHA? What have they done in Utah. I've stated 100s of times show me a group doing more than SFW and I'll gladly join. Nobody can...still....hell i really wish they would....but nope.

Hoss and you and Grizz hate SFW so bad you can't shake the blinders. Just like Grizz you can't throw out anything positive about BHA you have to attack another group. I think it comical that BHA quotes Teddy and you and Grizz like to throw out Teddy and the North American blah blah blah. I'd bet you an entire sack of shiny nickles that if old Teddy was around today he'd be seen posing on a lot of pics with Don Peay!
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-18 AT 10:04PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-18 AT 10:03?PM (MST)

I don't get how you all get it so damn twisted. No one is saying we should support Patagonia. I don't climb rocks, different world.

We are saying we will gladly take Yvons money and clout to fight off land grabbers. Well take black diamonds, sierra club, you name it, we will take it.

Muley, when a contractor completes a road for the state they get paid. $FW takes state money to do projects. Good for them, but lets not grant them sainthood.

Both Grizz and I have said show us where BHA is working against out interests, we will call them out, and walk. So far I've seen not a single example of that. I'm a pretty simple guy on that issue. They want to help us, great. I don't want to help them. Don't get it twisted as to what the goal is.




From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Hoss,
You?re ok with them supporting the wolf reintroduction?

BHA is reliant on those groups? That would tell me they don't have any of their own clout or money. So they side with companies and groups that openly are anti hunting, yes you're right I'm pretty twisted with that agendment. As should any real hunter.
 
Folks like Kimber? Leopold? Those notorious anti hunters?

You should do some research. BHA wasn't around for wolf reintroduction, kinda hard to stick that on them.

Yup. They are new, and young. They haven't built the clout that older groups have. Guess that's a negative?

There's an old saying about a gift horse, you should Google it.

I have no blinders with $fw. I see REAL CLEAR who their keynote speaker is, and its REAL CLEAR what he supports.

If your not sure on that, try Google for him to.



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 

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