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Should AZGFD eliminate the Youth muzzleloader deer hunt in Unit 16A (Hualapai Mountains)

 
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DonMartin
(1975 posts)
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Jul-14-17, 
10:13 AM (MST)
"Should AZGFD eliminate the Youth muzzleloader deer hunt in Unit 16A (Hualapai Mountains)"

LAST EDITED ON Jul-14-17 AT 10:13 AM (MST)

Fellow sportsmen and parents:

Not many are aware that the Arizona Game & Fish Department is proposing to eliminate the youth muzzleloader hunt with the whopping 25 tags in Unit 16A, the Hualapai Mountains.

Here is some history about this hunt.

The hunt was started in 1999 at the bequest of local sportsmen who were muzzleloader enthusiasts who wanted to pass on this form of hunting to their kids.

But as time went on, the hunt became more popular with other sportsmen both in state and out of state as it was held over the Christmas vacation, a time when even those youth who were engaged in athletics would have the opportunity to hunt deer.

Then at the request of the Region 3 folks, they added a provision that those with a muzzleloader deer tag could also purchase a companion javelina tag!

Then some folks decided that this was a "trophy hunt" and the kids shouldn't be in the field at that time. That was and still is BULL! Sure there were a few larger bucks taken, but by far the majority were spikes, forkies and small three points.

Several attempts have been made before to eliminate this hunt. They FAILED because the sportsmen of the state got involved and contacted the Department and the Commissions and told them that since there was NO BIOLOGICAL REASON to eliminate the hunt (40-50% hunt success) that the hunt should stay as it was.

The Commissions responded to the public input and decided the hunt would stay.

That is until this year when the department is once again proposing in their hunt guidelines to eliminate this hunt!

There has been some who have wanted the Department and Commission to increase the youth tags from the current 5% of the tags to a higher percentage.

The Department is proposing under the new guidelines, which will be voted on in September, to increase the total number of tags from 5% to 8%! I applaud them for this effort, as it is true the youth are the future of outdoor recreation, including hunting and fishing.

But does the Christmas break and the 25 associated tags need to be eliminated? Many around the state don't think so and I hope you are one of them. The school administrators like the idea of the kids not missing school, parents like it because its around the Christmas holiday when many are off work. It is a win-win for everyone EXCEPT maybe the AZGFD!

As an interesting sidebar to this issuer, I asked "If this hunt were to be eliminated, would the unit then be opened to over the counter archery tags and hunters?"

The answer was, "probably" which in government speak means "YES!"

Does the archery community really think that opening the archery deer hunt in the Hualapai Mountains in December at the expense of taking away the kids muzzleloader hunt is a good trade off? I sure hope that with over 44 units open across the state for December archery hunters, that they don't think so.

And don't forget, Unit 16A is OPEN for archers in January, AFTER the season for the 25 youth hunters is over!

I recently asked Amber Munig from the AZGFD how many comments the Department has received on this issue. She said 12.

Wow--that to me is amazing! If the Department and Commission doesn't get at least 100 comments about this issue, it WILL BE GONE not only for the next 5 years, but probably FOREVER!

You've got until August to make comments on this. All it takes is just 5 minutes to sit down at a computer and write a response to the Department's proposal.

PLEASE SEND YOUR COMMENTS TO: azhuntguidelines@azgfd.gov
and let's keep the limited opportunities for our young hunters in place!

It is going to be up to YOU! If you don't let them know that you oppose this, then I guarantee you it will be gone!

I personally have no dog in this fight. My grand kids live out of state and don't put in for this hunt. But if you have kids or grand kids that want to hunt with a muzzleloader during the Christmas break, then do it for them!

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  Table of Contents  

 Subject   Author   Message Date   ID 
 RE: Should AZG...  Mnbearhunte...      Jul-15-17   1 
  RE: Should AZG...  barner107      Jul-15-17   2 
   RE: Should AZG...  DoubleDropM...      Jul-16-17   3 
 RE: Should AZG...  Salmon      Jul-16-17   4 
  RE: Should AZG...  Tikka      Jul-16-17   5 
   RE: Should AZG...  azbiggame      Jul-16-17   6 
    RE: Should AZG...  CouesFanatic      Jul-18-17   7 
     RE: Should AZG...  DonMartin      Jul-18-17   8 
      RE: Should AZG...  CouesFanatic      Jul-18-17   9 
       RE: Should AZG...  CouesFanatic      Jul-18-17   10 
        RE: Should AZG...  DonMartin      Jul-18-17   11 
         RE: Should AZG...  CouesFanatic      Jul-18-17   12 
          RE: Should AZG...  DonMartin      Jul-18-17   13 
           RE: Should AZG...  CouesFanatic      Jul-18-17   14 
            RE: Should AZG...  DonMartin      Jul-18-17   15 
             RE: Should AZG...  Gator      Jul-18-17   16 
              RE: Should AZG...  DonMartin      Jul-18-17   17 
               RE: Should AZG...  AZ4life      Jul-20-17   18 

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  Messages in this topic  

Mnbearhunter123
(42 posts)
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Jul-15-17, 
12:49 PM (MST)
1. "RE: Should AZGFD eliminate the Youth muzzleloader deer hunt in Unit 16A (Hualapai Mountains)"

Thank you for the information!

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barner107
(141 posts)
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Jul-15-17, 
11:01 PM (MST)
2. "RE: Should AZGFD eliminate the Youth muzzleloader deer hunt in Unit 16A (Hualapai Mountains)"

Great experience for my son on that hunt - memories we will both have for a long time. He still talks about it all the time. Not a trophy hunt in my eyes - but a 12 year old just wants to get a buck - and the opportunity was there for that.

Thanks for letting me know on this - I will send my input.

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DoubleDropMuley
(378 posts)
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Jul-16-17, 
06:09 AM (MST)
3. "RE: Should AZGFD eliminate the Youth muzzleloader deer hunt in Unit 16A (Hualapai Mountains)"

Hell no don't eliminate youth hunts, if anything all states should give the young guns more opportunity.

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Salmon
(404 posts)
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Jul-16-17, 
08:16 AM (MST)
4. "RE: Should AZGFD eliminate the Youth muzzleloader deer hunt in Unit 16A (Hualapai Mountains)"

Don, I agree with DoubleDropMuley 100%. What the hunting community needs is more young involvement and chances to experience the outdoors.

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Tikka
(1379 posts)
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Jul-16-17, 
10:42 AM (MST)
5. "RE: Should AZGFD eliminate the Youth muzzleloader deer hunt in Unit 16A (Hualapai Mountains)"

Done, I too have no dog in the fight but we definitely need more youth hunts in every state!!!
Thanks for the link...

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azbiggame
(865 posts)
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Jul-16-17, 
11:59 AM (MST)
6. "RE: Should AZGFD eliminate the Youth muzzleloader deer hunt in Unit 16A (Hualapai Mountains)"

never give up any hunt opportunity, especially for OUR youth.Once gone even tougher to get back ... these young sports persons are the future, this is a fact !!! Send those comments to the above, that Don provided.

Remembering back when hunting was fun and "We All Shot FORKIES",
Bruce & SilverGrand

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CouesFanatic
(640 posts)
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Jul-18-17, 
00:07 AM (MST)
7. "RE: Should AZGFD eliminate the Youth muzzleloader deer hunt in Unit 16A (Hualapai Mountains)"

They are not taking away youth opportunity. You guys are understanding it incorrectly. They are taking the december hunts away (rut hunts) and increasing the number of youth early season(usually october) rifle hunts. They are not taking tags from kids, in fact they are increasing tag numbers. This needs to be done. In AZ it is easier to draw a regular deer tag than a youth tag.

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DonMartin
(1975 posts)
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Jul-18-17, 
00:16 AM (MST)
8. "RE: Should AZGFD eliminate the Youth muzzleloader deer hunt in Unit 16A (Hualapai Mountains)"

LAST EDITED ON Jul-18-17 AT 00:19 AM (MST)

I'm not sure if you're missing the point or just
don't care for youth going hunting!

Game and Fish wants to remove the December muzzleloader hunt and yes they are increasing youth tags but they're going to be putting them in October when many kids are involved with athletics or other school activities which will prevent them from being able to hunt.

Plus there is absolutely, positively no biological reason to stop this hunt!

There are only 25 tags and the hunt success is 40 to 50% so if you do the math they are killing what 11-12 bucks a year?

And what gets me is they are saying that if this hunt is removed they will "probably" open up unit 16A to over-the-counter archery tags which probably means a lot more hunters in there and probably more bucks being harvested!

Currently archers have over 40 units open in December so why in the world punish the youth by taking away a 25 permit hunt at the same time opening up just one more unit?

And lest we forget, that unit, Unit 16A will be open in January for the archery hunters.

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CouesFanatic
(640 posts)
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Jul-18-17, 
00:22 AM (MST)
9. "RE: Should AZGFD eliminate the Youth muzzleloader deer hunt in Unit 16A (Hualapai Mountains)"

LAST EDITED ON Jul-18-17 AT 00:23 AM (MST)

It's simple Don. 25 tags in December at 40% success = 50 tags in October at 20% success. Game and Fish sees more $$$ and gets more kids in the field.

If you really cared about more youth hunting then you would be for this change. For some reason you love this hunt specifically. Thats fine but the number don't lie. They are eliminating rut hunts for youth so they can increase tag numbers and youth opportunity earlier in the year. Simple as that.

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CouesFanatic
(640 posts)
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Jul-18-17, 
00:28 AM (MST)
10. "RE: Should AZGFD eliminate the Youth muzzleloader deer hunt in Unit 16A (Hualapai Mountains)"

LAST EDITED ON Jul-18-17 AT 00:29 AM (MST)

I have kids 2 and 4 years away from youth hunts. I want them to actually be able to draw a youth tag. I don't care for very tough draw odds on a rut hunt for my kids. I would rather have them be able to go at all.

Whats more important? 25 kids hunting in December or 50 that get to hunt in October? I'll chose the 50 everytime and thats exactly what the fish and game is doing.

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DonMartin
(1975 posts)
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Jul-18-17, 
00:36 AM (MST)
11. "RE: Should AZGFD eliminate the Youth muzzleloader deer hunt in Unit 16A (Hualapai Mountains)"

So why not do both?

Biology says no issue.

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CouesFanatic
(640 posts)
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Jul-18-17, 
00:39 AM (MST)
12. "RE: Should AZGFD eliminate the Youth muzzleloader deer hunt in Unit 16A (Hualapai Mountains)"

LAST EDITED ON Jul-18-17 AT 00:41 AM (MST)

Take that up with the Fish and Game. Maybe they think the herd can't handle it, I don't know, I can't read their mind.

I'm not going to argue biology or what the unit needs with you. Thats the Fish and Games job.

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DonMartin
(1975 posts)
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Jul-18-17, 
00:48 AM (MST)
13. "RE: Should AZGFD eliminate the Youth muzzleloader deer hunt in Unit 16A (Hualapai Mountains)"

Yes, and I have asked those questions of AZGFD, and therefore do know the facts.

One does not have to be a biologist to figure out that when spikes,forks and little three points are the vast majority of the deer taken on a supposedly "rut" hunt, there are no biological reasons to not continue this hunt!

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CouesFanatic
(640 posts)
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Jul-18-17, 
00:54 AM (MST)
14. "RE: Should AZGFD eliminate the Youth muzzleloader deer hunt in Unit 16A (Hualapai Mountains)"

Seems to me they already have their mind made up. I guess we will see.

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DonMartin
(1975 posts)
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Jul-18-17, 
02:35 AM (MST)
15. "RE: Should AZGFD eliminate the Youth muzzleloader deer hunt in Unit 16A (Hualapai Mountains)"

Yes, we will..

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Gator
(15004 posts)
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Jul-18-17, 
08:31 AM (MST)
16. "RE: Should AZGFD eliminate the Youth muzzleloader deer hunt in Unit 16A (Hualapai Mountains)"

If we lose even one young person it will impact the way of life we choose to do, It's a fact that people who don't hunt when they are growing up and because parents and when they have children the odds are against that their kids will hunt,trap or fish.
No hunters to take over for the old hunters that disappear from our ranks.
Short sighted actions on their part can impact the whole state one bad move followed by another bad move and soon you have alot of young hunters gone from our ranks.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>Life member of
>the MM green signature club.


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DonMartin
(1975 posts)
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Jul-18-17, 
10:59 AM (MST)
17. "RE: Should AZGFD eliminate the Youth muzzleloader deer hunt in Unit 16A (Hualapai Mountains)"

Gator, so do I understand from your POST that you OPPOSE the proposed action by AZGFD to ELIMINATE this muzzleloader hunt?

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AZ4life
(314 posts)
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Jul-20-17, 
03:51 PM (MST)
18. "RE: Should AZGFD eliminate the Youth muzzleloader deer hunt in Unit 16A (Hualapai Mountains)"

They shouldn't do it in 16a every year. Show some other units some love. Rotation is the answer.

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