300 H&H problem

[Avsman]

Ill try and explain whats going on but I do have some pictures I will try and upload later or will email them to anyone that thinks they might beable to help. A friend of mine has a 300 H&H mag and with out their knowledge someone took the fire arm and shot a 300 win mag bullet out of it, since they were unable to get the cartrage out of the rifle and shoot it anymore the unknown but suspected person returned the rifle to its proper place and no one knew the wiser, well just the other day we decided to take it out and shoot just for some practice and time away and to waste some bullets. Well when we got to the range and found the gun jammed it was rather convienient to have someone there that knew alot about guns kind of a do it yourself gun smith and with a little work with the action and some penetrating oil and some kind of freeze spray we were able to remove the round from the gun and He noticed it right away that it was a 300 win mag case. Well we all inspected the rifle to make sure there wasnt any further damage to any of the moving parts and the guy who helped him get the case out of the action said everything looked fine it was just lucky that who ever had fired the win mag through the gun wasnt seriously injured or worse killed. Now here comes the problem, We still decided to shoot it and at the time everything seemed fine the rounds were feeding, shooting, and ejecting with out flaw to his suprize the gun was still on 1.5" high at 100 yards we couldnt believe it. Well after we had shoot a couple of boxes of shells we started picking up the brass and to our amazement all of the 300 H&H caseings were expanded to look like a 300 win mag caseing, The 300 H&H is tapered from the belt up to the shoulder and then strait up to the neck well after you shoot them in the gun now they are square up to the shoulder, the shoulder of the casing is a steeper angle to the neck and resembles the look of a 300 win mag casing but after looking around the gun range and finding a 300 win mag casing the H&H casing is about 1/16-1/8" longer than a win mag. So my question to anyone that might have any idea on whats going on is What happened to the chamber when the win mag was fired out of the gun, and how did the win mag even fit in the H&H chamber with such an obvious difference in cartrages is it possible that the force of the win mag caused the chamber on the H&H to change that drastically that now the H&H casing are only good for one shot and not able to reload. By the way the shells were Win Super XX 300 H&H. Im no expert but this is something Ive never even heard about so I would be very greatful if someone out there would be of any help. Thanks in advance good huntin

Windage and elevation pilgrim windage and elevation

 

[RELH]

There is more to this then what you said. A great deal more information is needed. You appear to be saying that you think the 300 Win. mag. expanded the 300 H&H chamber to the size of a 300 win. for case dia. at the front shoulder area. If that would have happen, the chamber would have ruptured before that amount of expansion could have happen.
I am wondering if that chamber is a true 300 H&H chamber, and not a wildcat chamber based on the 300 H&H case.
Someone could have "Improved" the chamber demensions by blowing out the shoulder as Ackley did on lot of his "Improved" calibers. You need to have that rifle examined by a gunsmith and have a chamber cast done to determine the chamber size and see if it has been wildcatted and the person doing it failed to re-stamp the barrel to indicate it's change.

Also the 300 Weatherby was based on the 300 H&H case and used fireformed 300 H&H cases before factory ammo was available, but it's shoulder had that round radius common to Weatherby ammmo and a sharp angle from shoulder to neck.


RELH

 

[D13er]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-29-09 AT 09:15AM (MST)[p]There is absolutely no way a 300 win mag would fit in a 300 H&H chamber.....the bolt would have to be hammered shut.

I'm betting that is has been reamed to 300 wby mag(fairly common)....or some other wildcat like RELH said.


great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB

 

[huntindude]

You two are right, a 300 win mag wouldn't fit in a 300 H&H and even if it did you wouldn't rechamber a rifle by firing it.

It has been rechambered, 300 WBY most likly but there were a bunch of wildcats like the 300 long neck it could be.

 

[REDDOG]

So all you have to do is fire a 300 win in an H&H, and walla, u have a 300 H&H imp!

really nothin to add that hasnt already been said, there would have to be noticible damage for this to happen, if its a 300 wby, it should be easily noticible by the fire formed H&H case.

 

[uphill]

I'm not tryring to start an arguement but I do have an opinion I'd like to share.

"unknown but suspected person" borrows your friends rifle without asking.

"unknown but suspected person" doesn't know what ammo goes in what rifle.

"unknown but suspected person" returns borrowed rifle in inoperable condition and says nothing.

What the heck is "unknown but suspected person" doing with unrestricted access to your friends firearms? He/she doesn't appear to deserve such priveleges. Firearm ownership is a right and also a responsibility. "unknown but suspected person" needs to learn some proper behavior or the combo on the safe needs to be changed.

 

[D13er]

you can get a 300 win mag to shoot in a 300wby.....not a very good idea but it will shoot....and accurately...kinda. Leaves about a 1/16" neck. I didn't do it but was there and helped drag the dead deer. Your problem must have been more extreme...get the pictures posted, I'd like to see them.


great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB

 

[Avsman]

How do you change the combo on your safe? Unknown but suspected person finally admitted what they had done after a lot of guilt tripping by said friend and now unknown suspected person is in some seriously deep shet,
Well since that was said, Friend really never paid much attention to the spent brass they fire because they dont reload ammo, and after 300 win mag was fired and jammed in gun they did notice that the casings looked and in fact were different, They asked me what I thought and the first thing I suspected was a improved round with out restamping the barrel but I have never heard of a 300 H&H improved but that is in fact what has happened, but just to be sure she is going to take it to a gun smith just to be sure that everything is fine with the rifle and have the barrel restamped so this doesnt happen again, Just for mine and her information is there anything wrong with firing standard 300 H&H rounds in the gun I know that fire forming casings is common but it looks like it is streching it alittle far to me. Thanks for all the valuable information I knew the gurus on here could figure it out with out even seeing it. THanks again

Windage and elevation pilgrim windage and elevation

 

[4000fps]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-09 AT 11:13PM (MST)[p]Ray, so what exactly was the gun rechambered for?

A 300 Win mag, would not chamber in a 300 H&H because it is wider at the shoulder.

A 300 H&H case shouldn't fit in a 300 Win mag, because it is longer.

You could fire a 300H&H case in a 300 Weatherby chamber, and it would fireform.

You could fire a 300 Win mag case in a 300 Weatherby, but since the 300 Win is a shorter case, it would have a tiny neck after fireforming.

Technically... the 300 Win mag and 300 Weatherby could both be considered is an improved version of the 300 HH, since they are both based off the same case. Although, when people speak of an "improved" cartridge, it usually means it has a 40 degree shoulder too. The 300 Win mag only has a 25 degree shoulder. I believe the 300 Weatherby was considered the "improved" version of the 300 H&H, but it has a radiused shoulder, not angled.

I am guessing it was rechambered in 300 Weatherby.
I would love to see the fireformed cases.

PS. technically, if the round chambered, you wouldn't have a dangerous headspace issue, because it has a belted case, so it doesn't stop on the shoulder.

 

[REDDOG]

If its a 300 wby, it will be easy to identify by the double radious shoulder. a pair of calipers and some case spec's out of a loading manuel would solve it.

but on the safe side, just have a smith do a chamber cast like RELH said, i can think of other wildcats it could be, but none would have the wby shoulder.

 

[huntindude]

There were 1000 versions of improved 300 H&H chamberings done after the war with the 300 WBY being the most famous ofcourse. there was a local gumnsmith here who screwed up lots of model 70's with what he called the 300 Mason, basically a 300 WBY with a standard shoulder named after himself. no doubt this happened all over the county. my suggestion would also be to do a chamber cast or fire a 300 H&H round and see what you have, if it's an easy one get a set of dies if it's an odd ball have a set made.

 

[Avsman]

Mundo Ive got pics on my other computer Ill send to you so you can see them, The fire formed case is the exact dimentions of the .300 weatherby but it has the angled shoulders and not the radius shoulders, I will send anyone who wants pics pics if you send me your email addresses then you can see for your self, She is going to take the gun to a gun smith and atleast figure out what the exact caliber is and have the barrel restamped so atleast it wont happen again. Later.

Windage and elevation pilgrim windage and elevation

 

[RELH]

Then she has a "wildcat" caliber that only a person who reloads would be interested in if she should decide to sell it down the line. That feature will knock the price down on the rifle. To reload for it, you would have to send three fire formed cases to RCBS or other die maker and have them make a set of reloading dies based on the fire formed cases.
This would be a special order and the cost will be about 2-3 times more then a standard set of rifle dies.

RELH

 

[D13er]

if there is enough material left in that chamber.....maybe it could still be reamed to 300 wby mag......that would make it a more desirable gun than an oddball wildcat.

great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB