An End to Outrageous Non-Resident Fees?

"Do you think it is fair for someone to buy nonresident tags so they can kill 2-5 muley?s every year?"

I'll answer this; yes it is fair. Why not? If they have enough money and can do it, let them do it. Its called the American Dream. Make some money and live it. Everybody in this country has the same opportunity to bust their ass, make some money, and do what they want.







It's Bush's fault!!!
 
It is important to remenber that 10% of America hunts and 10% is opposed to hunting and it's the other 80% that will decide weather hunting will continue or be discontinued. Migrants from all over the world are on the move and they moving to the western countries. Are racial, cultural and language are changing. These new migrants know nothing of hunting or gun ownership for sporting reasons.

There is no average hunter we are all hunters and it is important that we work together provide a united front. All hunters can afford a resident tag but not all can afford the gas to go hunting. And they are those who can afford a 35 day full bag East Africa Safari (I wished that I was in the later class). A kudu trophy fee is approaching $1000 and a non resident elk license is $400 to $500 and a resident deer tag is $8 plus. Lets hunt what we can afford and support each other and with hard work and savings anything is possible.

You think non resident fees are high: Tanzinia has raised lion and elephant trophy fees from $3000 to $15,000 in the middle of the safari season plus increased the the daily rate. So goes my 7 day 2 bufflo hunt -- maybe forever.
 
I'll tell you what I know

I know that I make pretty good money at a gross $65,000 a year income

I know I have net income after taxes and medical etc of about $45,000 a year and of that, $1,000 a month to auto and home payments, $1,000 to electric, gas, water, trash service, other misc bills. How much per month on food ? Clothes for my 8 and 6 year old ? School stuff, hous & auto maintenance, medical bills if any, dental

Do you want me to go on or am I the only blue collar hard working man with a family trying to scrape up money for hunting every fall by buying and selling stuff on EBAY that I get at garage sales, or doing the occasional odd job for $50 hell I even did farmers market a day or two this year for the extra $25 for hunts. This year I got lucky and sold a parcel of land that is taking me on a once in a lifetime caribou hunt, but every year of the past 15 years I've struggled to continue my hunts.

I believe a man should live for the now. Being a lover of money isn't Biblical, and its a terrible path to take. Likewise, a foolish man with money is also a tough row to how.


My point is, for one week out of the year, I'd love to take my son or daughter or both to Colorado for an experience of a lifetime in Rocky Mtn Hunting. The trip is going to cost more and more every year, it increases more than my frickin yearly salary does.

And on top of all that ? Damn tags continue to go up, and up, and up, and resident tags stay about the same.



So yeah, don't tell me that a few hundred bucks aint nothing. Its something to ME, and I doubt I'm the only non-rich guy on this message board that reads that and see's behind those words a man that has forgotten what streching a few hundred bucks is all about. Yeah, it matters, in principle, and in real life. That few hundred bucks for non-res tags is two weeks of grocery bills, a fall's supply of school clothes for the kid, maybe a co-pay on a medical bill .......... man, do NOT post how just a few hundred bucks aint nothing, because that pisses me off more than anything else in the world !



I'm very lucky to have my family where I have it, and to have cash to go hunting this fall. I'm tickled to death to be honest, very humbled too, but i've not forgotten all the other guys that will try and scrape together 1/2 the cost of their trip for a frickin tag. It sucks, I did it for many years, and one day soon, I'll not be able to afford to ever hunt elk again.


There gleninaz - that should make you really damn happy, that the price of tags has gotten so high that it prices average Americans out of ever experiencing it. You probably don't care, but you know what ? Its reality, and its killing hunting and what hunting is, and when hunting is a thing of the past, know that your attitude and others had a large contributing factor to it.

Ya'll have some good hunting this fall, enjoy it while you can. Go out west if you can, to another state if you can, because soon, it'll be so expensive you can't. Forget about the horns, go for the experience with family and friends, enjoy HUNTING
 
Brad-you are so far off it isn't funny. Hunting is dwindling because most people live and grow up in big towns and cities and the world is full of Bambi lovers and PETA freaks who teach their kids to scorn the hunter as someone who has not completely evolved. It has everything to do with passing on the knowledge and understanding and very little to do with money. If it costs a hundred dollars to fill your truck tank and milk has doubled in price in 2 years and on and on I bet you never gave those things up. I bet you figure a way to come up with a couple of hundred dollars every anniversary and birthday. Point is that an elk tag that was $400 five years ago here and is now $500 is not going to stop people from hunting. I am calling BS on your whole whiney complaint. You can afford the extra $400 every ten years that you might get drawn if you will just start tucking away a whopping $3.33 each month. Not even the price of a 6 pack.
 
"Forget about the horns, go for the experience with family and friends, enjoy HUNTING"

Its funny that you say that Brad. Because there are several states that offer NR doe/cow tags at significantly reduced prices. Sometimes less than half. So if it isn't about the antlers, why not take your kids to CO for cow elk at $250 a piece? Or get doe tags in WY for I believe less than $100? Although I may be wrong, I do believe WY has very cheap doe tags. So if its not about antlers to you, whats the problem? You should be able to afford to go to several states a year.






It's Bush's fault!!!
 
The first time that I was aware of the cost and availability of hunting licenses was in 1959, I was 8 years old. My father took several airline pilots hunting and they paid $100 for a Montana combination hunting license and the license was purchased at a sporting goods store. In 1967 one of the pilot's and another pilot came to hunt in the Dillon area and they purchase their licenses at a store in Dillon, I think the cost was $125.

What started out as Montana selling a few thousand licenses a year ended in 1974 when 27,000 combination licenses were sold over the counter. The resource could not handle that type of hunting so the legislators debated between 12,000 and 17,000 licenses. They settled on 17,000 licenses. The licenses went on sale in March on a first come first serve basis. At first it took until early summer to sell the quota. Each year the quota sold sooner and sooner. Twenty years later (approximately) they were sold out in the first morning. Then they had to go to a drawing and the outfitters demanded a set aside of 1/3. The voter's voted for it.

Brad and others. The demand was not there in the 1950's and 60's yet there were more hunter on a percentage basis than today. The cost of hunting license is not going to cause the number of hunters to decease. A hunter hunted on the back "80" of his uncle's farm with his grandpa's 30/30 or his double 12 shooting whitetail, rabbits and pheasants. The hunter's World War 2 Willey jeep if he had one would not make it to the Rocky Mountains and the interstate highway system was not complete. In that era (early 70's) elk were scare, I hunted entire seasons seeing less than 10 elk, today if I don't see 20 to 30 elk a day it's a poor day. In the 60's there were 3 hunting magazines, now an entire section the rack is devoted to hunting and guns.

Today, uncle's back "80" is a subdivision with a strip mall on the an arterial street. I see it today in Billings, Montana where I grew up. Fields and ditches where I hunted pheasants and ducks are now homes and one would not think of hunting a field without permission.

Well, the interstate highway system is complete the Willy's Jeep has been replaced with a modern truck that drives like a car and the Rocky Mountains are but 12 to 30 hours away. Hunt it once want to hunt it every year. There is not the resources for the demand to hunt every year. The first time was a mystery and the cost of a license was part of the game. After a number of times the hunter started to think about the unfair cost of the tag. I pay $29.95 for Internet service a month (1.5 ser vive)disconnect the service and save $360 a year there is the couple of hundred bucks plus. Once we have something weather it's hunting the west or the Internet we don't want to disconnect and either do I.
 
>"Do you think it is fair
>for someone to buy nonresident
>tags so they can kill
>2-5 muley?s every year?"
>
>I'll answer this; yes it is
>fair. Why not? If they
>have enough money and can
>do it, let them do
>it. Its called the American
>Dream. Make some money and
>live it. Everybody in this
>country has the same opportunity
>to bust their ass, make
>some money, and do what
>they want.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>It's Bush's fault!!!

I say yes as well, because this is a different deal and has to do with qoutas and population goals. It really would be hard for a guy to shoot as many bucks i those states if there was not a good population to do so. But to try and draw that many tag... wont happen usually and if does so what, the F&G must think the numbers can handle it.
 
gleninaz- You are a #####. I want to come to AZ just to kick your as*.

Brad - give it up on this complete ahole.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-17-07 AT 09:44AM (MST)[p]This is definitely a thread about chasing tails. There will never a good answer. Money means different things to different people. Each western state has its own rules. I think its easier to be more critical of the states that can get you a hunt every year or every couple of years as well. You can sock away $500 bucks for that AZ or Utah tag and by the time you actually draw it, you could have saved up $10,000 for the trip itself, or be too old to get out and do it anyway. Its probably dorked up anyway, and in my son's lifetime, he will probably see hunting done away with for government "sharp-shooters", to save us all from ourselves. If there are that many guys that don't come west to hunt because of the price of the tag, what will happen if the tags were only $200 capped. The residents will get dinged much more money, and if that is the case, will probably start yelling to decrease the allocation of NR licenses down to 2%-3% instead of 10%, that is a guarantee, the numbers might be off, the idea isn't. Now you have all those guys that wouldn't hunt in the west before the cap, putting in for less tags. Before you know it in all the western states, it takes 10 years to get a flipping cow tag!! There will be consequences for everythng.
I don't hunt out of state. I have everything here in MT that I am interested in hunting. I am not a guide, but I have helped several NR out as best I can, because I do know they are a huge part of MT FWP budget and I want them to be successful. I even gave up 3rd week of bow season to take a guy from IA out to get a bull in his face. But of all the conversations I have had with them, the price of tags weren't that bad. And most have been blue collar guys.
 
Brad,

A few hundred bucks ain't nothing...

Why don't you just move to Colorado? If it is that big of a deal to you, get your butt over here. there's plenty of jobs and great deals on homes right now. Come be a resident...

...or, stay where you are at and come hunt as a non-resident.

Oh, did I mention that a couple hundred bucks ain't nothing..?:)
 
Drah - well stated and agreed. I can deal with the price but the huge difference between the 2 suck. Guys like you are stand up in my book.
 
This is rather interesting. Especially the last statement:

"The U.S. Sportsmen?s Alliance proposed that the White House issue an Executive Order on hunting early in President Bush?s first term, and again in 2005. The order, number 13,443, directs federal agencies that manage public land, outdoor recreation and wildlife management to:


Address declining trends and implement actions that expand and enhance hunting opportunities

Consider the economic and recreational value of hunting

Manage wildlife and habitat in a manner that expands and enhances hunting opportunities

Work collaboratively with states to manage wildlife in a manner that respects private property rights and STATE AUTHORITY OF WILDLIFE"



It's Bush's fault!!!
 
I started this thread just to see how big it would get - finally, I got my 100+ post thread! :) :) :) :)

I was actually hoping to see some support from fellow hunters to help stop the NR fee situation from getting further out of control. But with the exception of a FEW, I have learned that MOST don't give a s$%@ about other hunters (if they live in another State). I will be trying to keep my State (which is a Western State with lots of big game hunting and non-FLAT land) from killing the Non-resident every chance I get, even though it is apparent that no one else in other States will be doing the same for me.
 
Took you a while to jump in to your own mess you started. I went to meetings here and pushed for raising my fees so yours would stay down. They were talking $1500 for an elk tag back then. You want to do something proactive to hold costs down and provide opportunity then get rid of all private tags and outfitter setasides so the everyday hunters can continue to hunt. Also dump SFW and control SCI so they don't weasel control over the allocation of tags in your state. They work for the wealthy hunters IMO. My guess is you are probably on that side of the fence.
 
UGA wrote:

"But with the exception of a FEW, I have learned that MOST don't give a s$%@ about other hunters (if they live in another State)."

What a crock, because we don't see things how you do does NOT mean we don't give a s$%@ about other hunters. That is an assinine comment and absurd. I'll put up what I do for fellow hunters in my state for res/NR alike vs what you do ANYTIME ANYWHERE! Just because I don't/won't cater to your wants and desires and I try to look at the big picture and ALL hunters, not just a few, does NOT mean I don't care. Hell, you draw a LE elk tag here like you keep hoping for, I will gladly wish you well on killing the biggest baddest bull in the state. Good Day!

PRO
 
I think that every non res over thge age of 54 should be given a discount. Next year raise the age limit to 55 and then raise it 1 more year each draw. What do you guys think of my idea?

Ransom
 
UGAhunter, If you really understood what is going on here you could only be opposed to this legislation ESPECIALLY if you live in a western state. First they lower your tag prices then they go to work reducing your opportunity! Get involved then and only then will you completely understand why a congressman from California would bring forth a bill like this when his state offers hardly any nonresident opportunity in comparision. It's smoke and mirrors and he clearly knows that the states and the supreme court has already ruled on this. He's clearly after his states sportsman's vote and he knew this bill was dead the day he drafted it! You can't take things at face value in politics you always have to read between the lines!
 
>Took you a while to jump
>in to your own mess
>you started. I went to
>meetings here and pushed for
>raising my fees so yours
>would stay down. They were
>talking $1500 for an elk
>tag back then. You want
>to do something proactive to
>hold costs down and provide
>opportunity then get rid of
>all private tags and outfitter
>setasides so the everyday hunters
>can continue to hunt. Also
>dump SFW and control SCI
>so they don't weasel control
>over the allocation of tags
>in your state. They work
>for the wealthy hunters IMO.
>My guess is you are
>probably on that side of
>the fence.
Wow, this is scary but i have to give credit where credit is due... First, thanks you old coot for voicing to keep tag prices sane in AZ.
Second, thanks for your thoughts on SFW and wealth tags as i feel the same way.
 
The first dollar I see come in from out of state residents to help maintain the infrastructure (state roads etc.) to get the hunter to these federal lands will be the first day I support such a bill. Mayb we should do a cost comparison of current non-resident fees to the cost of renting a plane or helicopter to drop you into fedral lands without using any state roads paid for with local tax dollars.
 
"Its about time" you hunt in your own state. If you don't like the fees that are charged for nonresident hunters than move to that state.
 
How many millions of dollars are taken into a state each year by non-resident hunters? Every time I go to your lovely state hunting I dump a reasonable amount of money into your economy. I dont complain about the fees when applying as a non-resident to any state -- comes with the territory.
If you have never hunted out of your home state you can make that argument, If you have, then... HUH?
By the way, when I go to NM, I dont drive on state roads. I drive on the sidewalks. LOL
 
Overton,
Guys over 54 should pay extra, what with all the search and rescue and life-flight expenses.
Heck, those heart shock machines aint cheap neither!
HEHE
 
>The first dollar I see come
>in from out of state
>residents to help maintain the
>infrastructure (state roads etc.) to
>get the hunter to these
>federal lands will be the
>first day I support such
>a bill. Mayb we
>should do a cost comparison
>of current non-resident fees to
>the cost of renting a
>plane or helicopter to drop
>you into fedral lands without
>using any state roads paid
>for with local tax dollars.
>

First, I agree that this bill was a political move only and was DOA. It does not have a snowballs chance in.....

However, the above argument is used often, and I don't see where it applies to what Nonresident fees should be.

The FACT is that nonresidents DO help maintain infrastructure. Saying we don't is like someone saying that renters get a break because they don't pay property taxes. Sure they do, it is included in every rent payment or the rental owner would go broke. Infrastructure charges ARE included everytime we get a hotel, buy groceries, buy gas, etc. And, nonresident dollars generate lots of economic benefits for the state PRODUCING more tax revenue for the state. Sure we don't pay much compared to a resident, but residents use the infrastructure every day. I use it at most 2 weeks per year.

And by the way, I drove on lots of state roads in Colorado on vacation this summer without paying any DIRECT fee to the state. Did I cheat them?


txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 

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