An epic failed muzzy hunt!

[300wbymann]

well my hunt is over- it was fun, seen lots of bucks, should have killed a dandy, and ended up killing just a decent 3 point.

I appreciate all the help I received on here about bullets and such.

But to get to the point- I HAD SOME MAJOR ISSUES WITH MY MUZZY!

I never had a problem with misfires while practicing at home- But it first started on Monday. I had belly crawled to 70 yards a a big buck,175 with a Giant frame, bedded down. All was perfect, I laid down and pulled the trigger. POP! the primer goes off but not the powder. The buck stands up and I get another musket cap on.Pull the trigger, CLICK- nothing, ##### it and pull it again- POP! primer goes off but doesn't ignite the powder. Now the deer run away.

I was PISSED! we go back to camp and I put 2 more musket caps through it before it shot. I assumed my powder got wet, so I pulled the nipple and plug out a cleaned it real good. Put it together and popped a cap then loaded it again.

we hunted the whole next day and returned to camp after dark. For chits and giggles I figured I'd shoot it in the dark to make sure all was good.- NOPE!! first pull, POP- load another, CLICK- ##### it again, POP! load another, click, re-#####- BANG!

this time I went in and switched the nipple to shoot #11 primers. I loaded it 7 times in the dark and it shot the first time after that. SO ALL IS WELL RIGHT?

next morning, in the dark at camp, I shot it- BOOM, perfect! reloaded it and off I went.

I had a bad feeling about noon and decided I just couldn't trust that gun and so I went to camp, loaded my wifes muzzy and hunted with it for the duration.

well fast forward to killing my buck- all went great with my wifes muzzy. I reloaded it before I walked up to the buck but it wasn't needed.

After I got to camp with the buck all taken care of, I needed to unload BOTH muzzy's.

I shot my wife's- BOOM! perfect.
I shot mine- CLICK, RE-##### it, POP, put another #11 on it, CLICK, re-##### it BOOM!

UNBELIEVABLE! Had I not got a bad feeling and switched guns, the same thing would have happened on this buck!

So, With my gun I used Musket caps AND #11 primers, Both misfired. As far as conditions, the last day and a half both muzzy's were in the same elements and my wifes had no problems whatsoever.

Does anyone have any ideas as to what could be the problem?

At this point I'm VERY frustrated and basically have my mind set on selling my Muzzy. This hunt took 11 years to draw and either my muzzy, or my stupidity for not shooting the gun enough to see the problem sooner( which I shot it over 50 times)made the hunt less than the great time it should have been.

any ideas?

 

[txhunter58]

Need more info:

Gun used

powder used

bullets used

cleaning procedure including what cleaning agents used

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

 

[300wbymann]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-12 AT 01:09PM (MST)[p]>Need more info:
>
>Gun used
>
>powder used
>
>bullets used
>
>cleaning procedure including what cleaning agents
>used
>
>txhunter58
>
>venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore
>I am)

T/C northwest explorer
tripple 7
hornady Great plains
cleaning procedure: pulling out the nipple and breech plug.using t/c bore scrubber with a wet patch then keep patching until I come out with a patch as clean as I put it in. Scrub breech plug and nipple, MAKING SURE THERE WAS NO BLOCKAGE in the flash hole. drying with patches. putting back together, then firing a cap.

Then load and hunt.

also I use t/c anti-seize lube on the threads of the nipple and breech plug when I put it back together.

I hope that helps you so that you can help me- I dang sure could use it

 

[txhunter58]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-12 AT 01:39PM (MST)[p]

I have never shot a northwest explorer so not totally familar with the design. Does the nipple screw directly into the back of the breechplug?

If so, and you are putting grease on the nipple, I susupect that is your problem. Grease on the breechplug threads is a good thing, but any grease on the nipple threads would make it possible to get grease into the fire hole between your percussion cap and the powder. That could certainly cause a misfire. As I said, I have not used the northwest, but I NEVER put grease on the nipple threads of any percussion gun. Popping one cap might get some finer oils, but doubt if it would clean out heavy grease. In fact, popping on cap might drive the grease futher into the firing channel

When I used 777, I would always pop a cap, then pour 15-20 gr down the barrel with the barrel being held up. Then I pop another cap with the barrel pointed skyward (no bullet). If that powder ignites, you should have a grease free/dry barrel to load. Or if you don't want to foul the barrel, you should fire at least 3 caps before loading.

If that is not what you are doing, we can explore other possiblities. It has to be something causing the fire to not reach the powder, or a problem with the powder. Sometimes the cleaners we use can have residual in the barrel that could "wet" the barrel or powder. Many people run a patch of windex or isopropyl alcohol down followed by some dry patches to get any residual grease/cleaning solutions out.

Also, if I clean a gun and get it to go boom, I reload at that point without cleaning. Anytime you clean, you run the risk of doing something that will cause a misfire.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

 

[300wbymann]

yes, the nipple screws into the breach plug, and also yes I have been putting grease on the nipple threads.

so how do you keep the nipple from seizing into the breach plug? I have an older muzzy that I CANNOT remove the breach plug or nipple because I was lazy in the cleaning department and Never used grease / bore butter.

thanks

 

[txhunter58]

So, I really bet your problem is the grease on the nipple.

You are fine to use grease on the threads of the breechplug, shouldn't be a problem

I have never let a gun that was shot with 777 go for more than a day without cleaning (otherwise you got bigger problems to worry about like a rusted/pitted barrel). But if nothing else pull off the nipple after a shooting session even if you can't clean it right away. That should solve your problem.

Also, many people have gone to using teflon tape for the breechplug threads instead of grease. Don't know why it wouldn't be ok to use on the nipple as well. I have never used it so can't tell you how, but do a search and you will find lots of reference to it. I will also PM you a couple of websites that have a lot more guys posting about blackpowder.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

 

[300wbymann]

so why is it bad to put the grease on the nipple? I'm pretty careful to use just a little and to keep it just on the threads( although if it's the problem then I must not be THAT careful) but I do pop a musket cap after putting it back together also- could it still be my issue?

 

[txhunter58]

1) I can see no real advantage to using it.

2) the end of the breechplug is flat and fits snugly up against a solid flat area but the nipple doesn't butt up against anything nearly as substatial, so when the gun warms in the sun, the grease could "flow" into the channel

3) Grease is thick and I would not rely on one cap to burn it up. Not sure how many it might take

A trick I use in my sidelock is to load the rifle, then pull the breechplug and pour a couple of grains in the channel and replace the nipple. Doing this, I have never had a misfire in the field. HOWEVER, that is in a sidelock and I would never try this in a northwestern because you sould be putting it in the back of the breechplug and might blow the nipple back into your face. I only mention it so if you hunt with a sidelock in the future.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

 

[whtelk]

Been a lot of problems with the NW edition.

 

[300wbymann]

>1) I can see no
>real advantage to using it.
>
>
>2) the end of the breechplug
>is flat and fits snugly
>up against a solid flat
>area but the nipple doesn't
>butt up against anything nearly
>as substatial, so when the
>gun warms in the sun,
>the grease could "flow" into
>the channel
>
>3) Grease is thick and
>I would not rely on
>one cap to burn it
>up. Not sure how
>many it might take
>
>A trick I use in my
>sidelock is to load the
>rifle, then pull the breechplug
>and pour a couple of
>grains in the channel and
>replace the nipple. Doing
>this, I have never had
>a misfire in the field.
>HOWEVER, that is in a
>sidelock and I would never
>try this in a northwestern
>because you sould be putting
>it in the back of
>the breechplug and might blow
>the nipple back into your
>face. I only mention it
>so if you hunt with
>a sidelock in the future.
>
>
>txhunter58
>
>venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore
>I am)

I guess that does make sense, too bad it took me missing a chance at a Dandy buck to figure this problem out.

 

[300wbymann]

>Been a lot of problems with
>the NW edition.

What problems are you talking about?
I searched high and low to find this gun because from what I've read, it is the most sought after muzzy for Oregon residents- THAT BEING SAID, I am dissapointed in it and it is going down the road. I just dont think I could put 100% faith in it for another hunt.

So I do agree with you, I have just never heard of "alot of problems" with this gun and am curious what issues they are known for?

 

[txhunter58]

Before you give up on it, I would try it without the grease on the nipple. Load it up and leave it in your garage for a day, then bring it in, then out again, then leave it outside on a damp day. Then try and shoot it.

I just can't imagine that you can't get it to ignite better than any sidelock unless there is a design flaw with the breechplug itself. A straight shot to the powder should be a good system.

Post your problems on the websites I gave you. There are some really hard core blackpowder guys there that are way smarter than me.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

 

[tracker12]

Where did you keep the gun at night and what were the outside conditions. During cold weather I keep the gun outside during the hunt. If it goes inside where it is warm you can get condensation

 

[sjhgraysage]

Also what brand of musket caps? and what brand of #11 caps? and how old were they?

CCI used to make a musket cap that I used and it always worked, now they make "reinactor" musket caps for the guys that reinact civil war battles etc. and I've heard that they are not to be used for hunting. I now use German RWS musket caps and CCI #11 Magnum caps. The only time I experience hangfires is after I wet patched the barrel and did not get it completely dry before loading the next charge.

 

[EVILNR]

The first thing I would do is try some fresh powder. Same thing has happened to me, solved it with a new can of powder.

 

[hangingmeat]

>The first thing I would do
>is try some fresh powder.
>Same thing has happened to
>me, solved it with a
>new can of powder.

but i used the same powder in the other muzzleloader without an issue at all.

 

[hangingmeat]

>Also what brand of musket caps?
>and what brand of #11
>caps? and how old were
>they?
>
>CCI used to make a musket
>cap that I used and
>it always worked, now they
>make "reinactor" musket caps for
>the guys that reinact civil
>war battles etc. and I've
>heard that they are not
>to be used for hunting.
>I now use German RWS
>musket caps and CCI #11
>Magnum caps. The only time
>I experience hangfires is after
>I wet patched the barrel
>and did not get it
>completely dry before loading the
>next charge.


all were new caps, #11's were the CCI's in the white little chew can
cant remember the brand right now on the musket caps, i'll look and reply again

 

[hangingmeat]

>Where did you keep the gun
>at night and what were
>the outside conditions. During
>cold weather I keep the
>gun outside during the hunt.
> If it goes inside
>where it is warm you
>can get condensation

I left the gun in the truck the whole time- I've always heard the condensation deal by taking them in and out.

 

[hangingmeat]

>Before you give up on it,
>I would try it without
>the grease on the nipple.
> Load it up and
>leave it in your garage
>for a day, then bring
>it in, then out again,
>then leave it outside on
>a damp day. Then
>try and shoot it.
>
>I just can't imagine that you
>can't get it to ignite
>better than any sidelock unless
>there is a design flaw
>with the breechplug itself. A
>straight shot to the powder
>should be a good system.
>
>
>Post your problems on the websites
>I gave you. There
>are some really hard core
>blackpowder guys there that are
>way smarter than me.
>
>txhunter58
>
>venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore
>I am)
I just now looked at the private messages( didn't see them) I will post on there as well.

the problem I have is,lets say I go and shoot the crap out of it , and it shoots great( without greasing the nipple), the gun did the same thing all fall? how do I know it's not going to fail me next winter/november?
just hard to trust a gun that has failed you

 

[txhunter58]

Hangingmeat must be your alter ego?

If your powder was good, I am convinced it was the grease on the nipple. Think about it. Can only be a couple of things: powder, caps, grease, breechplug. This is an inline and there has to be something beteen the cap and the powder causing this problem

And to reinterate, if you fire it and it goes boom, do NOT clean it, just reaload and hunt. With BH 209, there is no reason to shoot and reclean each day.

See what the guys on the other websites think

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

 

[fastcamo]

t/c anti-seize lube on the threads of the nipple--- not a good idea

 

[JustMuleys]

"With BH 209, there is no reason to shoot and reclean each day."

This is the best advice I have heard. But only shoot a 209 primer while using it.

 

[FrontierGander]

How do you know your truck wont break down and fail you? How do you know your boots wont fail and come apart, how do you know your own BODY wont fail you during a hunt?

If you are always thinking of what if's, its probably best to stay home in the little plastic bubble.

Muzzleloaders, especially flintlocks and #11 percussion systems are prone to failing, inlines shooting BH209 can also fail. Muzzleloaders in general can just not fire for what ever reason. There might be measures you can take to help improve ignition, cleaning a certain way, loading a certain way, taking extra precautions to help reduce moisture/water contamination of the powder. But as i said earlier, if you cant live with the fact that muzzleloaders can misfire while hunting or on the range, you better just move on to a centerfire.



www.FrontierMuzzleloading.com

 

[buttshot]

I have a couple muzzleloaders, one with a greenriver barrel that has never failed me, a custom Tennesee Valley Muzzleloader flint lock that only fails when I fail to make certain my flint is in good shape, a thompson that has never been fired and my wife has a great plains lymon that has never failed her either.
We use only Goex double or triple F.
If you want to leave that peice of #### gun of yours against a tree somewhere and send me grid coordinates, I will be certain to dispose of your angry stupid POS muzzy.....

 

[txhunter58]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-04-13 AT 09:53PM (MST)[p]

Bottom line is that putting grease on that nipple threads is what caused it to misfire. Clean everything up, use teflon tape on the breechplug threads or grease them but nothing on the nipple threads and you will not have another problem

Or.......... I will also be happy to take that sorry gun off your hands too. But I will pay you $50. I know, I shouldn't be that generous, but hey this is a new year!

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)