steelheader
Active Member
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''North american animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.'' It got me thinking, what does that line mean to you?
B&C fair chase statement
- Thread starter steelheader
- Start date
S
stickerpt
Guest
To me it means the animal has a chance to get away.
Buuuutttttt chasing polar bears with sled dogs and snowmobiles
affords zero chance to the polar bear and bears harvested this way are eligible for B&C book so go figure.
Buuuutttttt chasing polar bears with sled dogs and snowmobiles
affords zero chance to the polar bear and bears harvested this way are eligible for B&C book so go figure.
steelheader
Active Member
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- 218
good point, we were at elk camp last week and four of us all seemed to have a different take on things like that. radio's, atv's etc.
HunterHarry
Long Time Member
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>To me it means the animal
>has a chance to get
>away.
>Buuuutttttt chasing polar bears with sled
>dogs and snowmobiles
>affords zero chance to the polar
>bear and bears harvested this
>way are eligible for B&C
>book so go figure.
That would mean there is a 100% success rate on Polar Bears then?
I don't think so.
One of the world's most challenging hunts.
HH
>has a chance to get
>away.
>Buuuutttttt chasing polar bears with sled
>dogs and snowmobiles
>affords zero chance to the polar
>bear and bears harvested this
>way are eligible for B&C
>book so go figure.
That would mean there is a 100% success rate on Polar Bears then?
I don't think so.
One of the world's most challenging hunts.
HH
H
Huck58
Guest
It means, 20 guys tracking, watching, following, and using electronic devices to communcate,for two months, to kill one elk, makes the elk ineligible!
txhunter58
Long Time Member
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LAST EDITED ON Oct-04-08 AT 03:58PM (MST)[p]Huck58: In your book or B & C's?
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
H
Huck58
Guest
<in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.'>
20+ trackers or "a crew", hunting it for you, staying with the animal around the clock until the season opens, would seem to deem it an unfair advantage, by B&C standards.
20+ trackers or "a crew", hunting it for you, staying with the animal around the clock until the season opens, would seem to deem it an unfair advantage, by B&C standards.
steelheader
Active Member
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I would say that maybe thats something they need to look at. A measurer I know told me that they started to look a such a thing last year, but those things take awhile.
S
shedfinder
Guest
not only hiring 20 guys to watch it, but run off any other hunter who gets close to it. Fair chase to me means that anyone has the opportunity to legally hunt the animal. Not just the person with the most money. Doesn't sound fair chase to me.
257Tony
Long Time Member
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>not only hiring 20 guys to
>watch it, but run off
>any other hunter who gets
>close to it. Fair chase
>to me means that anyone
>has the opportunity to legally
>hunt the animal. Not just
>the person with the most
>money. Doesn't sound fair chase
>to me.
Then you must rule out LE units also, because not everybody has the same opportunity, only the lucky ones. In my book there is no difference between being lucky and being rich.
>watch it, but run off
>any other hunter who gets
>close to it. Fair chase
>to me means that anyone
>has the opportunity to legally
>hunt the animal. Not just
>the person with the most
>money. Doesn't sound fair chase
>to me.
Then you must rule out LE units also, because not everybody has the same opportunity, only the lucky ones. In my book there is no difference between being lucky and being rich.
steelheader
Active Member
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Tony the tiger bashes again. there's a big diff--------- between earning your booker or buying it.
H
Huck58
Guest
>Tony the tiger bashes again. there's
>a big diff--------- between earning
>your booker or buying it.
>
Exactly!
>a big diff--------- between earning
>your booker or buying it.
>
Exactly!
sageadvice
Long Time Member
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- 11,849
Fair chase
>to me means that anyone
>has the opportunity to legally
>hunt the animal.
How does private property come into play?
I've hunted some big ranches in states where "anyone" could not hunt. We were "in" with the Rancher and actually helped keep trespassers out. No high fences, back then no landowner tags, no guides, just draw a tag & DIY on private ground.
Joey
>to me means that anyone
>has the opportunity to legally
>hunt the animal.
How does private property come into play?
I've hunted some big ranches in states where "anyone" could not hunt. We were "in" with the Rancher and actually helped keep trespassers out. No high fences, back then no landowner tags, no guides, just draw a tag & DIY on private ground.
Joey
DonVathome
Very Active Member
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Good question. I often debate things like this.
For example I would LOVE to draw a great elk tag in Utah or Arizona where there are lots of big elk to chase, but on the flip side I want a tough hunt where I earn my animal?
Heck compare so kid chasing elk in a heavily hunted OTC CO unit with bow with a guy in a top unit in AZ with a rifle rut tag. Big difference. Heck, big difference even if the weapon was the same.
For the most part taking a 300 bull in OTC is tougher then a bigger bull in a great LE area. B&C and for that matter P&Y do not (and cannot) separate them.
I think each person must decide that for theirself.
For example I would LOVE to draw a great elk tag in Utah or Arizona where there are lots of big elk to chase, but on the flip side I want a tough hunt where I earn my animal?
Heck compare so kid chasing elk in a heavily hunted OTC CO unit with bow with a guy in a top unit in AZ with a rifle rut tag. Big difference. Heck, big difference even if the weapon was the same.
For the most part taking a 300 bull in OTC is tougher then a bigger bull in a great LE area. B&C and for that matter P&Y do not (and cannot) separate them.
I think each person must decide that for theirself.
B
bearman
Guest
Lots of good points from both sides sure makes one think. I do like the idea of separating diy and guided hunts. Pope and Young came out with a book of only long bow and re-curve bows.
elkanddeerhunter1
New Member
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- 4
"North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.?
I believe it simply means, as stated before, no high fence and the animal has a chance to get away.
?FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.?
Just to comment on a few other posts related to the subject. IMO, if you read the first part of Fair Chase it covers local laws ?lawful pursuit? that governs the taking of wildlife. In your neck of the woods, if your game laws state no animal shall be taken with the use of electronic devices, airplane, snowmobile, etc. then it would not qualify under the fair chase rules.
If the animal is on private land, that we don't have access to, and has the opportunity to leave the private land and is harvested under a landowner tag then that animal would qualify for the record book.
And, if you hire 20 guides to assist you on a hunt for an animal then it would qualify as well.
Do the things I said sound ethical or sportsmanlike? I don't think so, but then again this is my opinion only.
With all the latest technology and high dollar pursuit of trophy animals, I'm sure we will be seeing some changes to the record books!
That's my two-cents worth!!
I believe it simply means, as stated before, no high fence and the animal has a chance to get away.
?FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.?
Just to comment on a few other posts related to the subject. IMO, if you read the first part of Fair Chase it covers local laws ?lawful pursuit? that governs the taking of wildlife. In your neck of the woods, if your game laws state no animal shall be taken with the use of electronic devices, airplane, snowmobile, etc. then it would not qualify under the fair chase rules.
If the animal is on private land, that we don't have access to, and has the opportunity to leave the private land and is harvested under a landowner tag then that animal would qualify for the record book.
And, if you hire 20 guides to assist you on a hunt for an animal then it would qualify as well.
Do the things I said sound ethical or sportsmanlike? I don't think so, but then again this is my opinion only.
With all the latest technology and high dollar pursuit of trophy animals, I'm sure we will be seeing some changes to the record books!
That's my two-cents worth!!
B
bearman
Guest
That was put perfect. I couldn't agree more, I do believe there will be changes in the future.
marley
Very Active Member
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It seems that everyone rags on the guy that has 10+ guides looking for an animal but nothing is said about the guy that has 10+ family members all going in different directions looking for a certain animal. I don't really see the difference. I personally would rather have the 10+ family members helping not only for the great company and experience but I feel that my family members and friends could do just as good of a job as the guides. But again, I don't really see a difference on the ethics side of things.
B
bearman
Guest
Right on ropinfool family don't stay out for months following or looking. Yes family can be as good or better than any guide but are not doing the same thing to take an animal. The whole hunting party may go out for a week. And if your family did spend months looking then call when they have one found for you to shoot that would be the same.
W
walkerman
Guest
I like the point "diy or guided" but where would mt lios fit in that? since I know it would be awful hard for a guy from out of country to get his own pack of dogs over here doesn't it seem more reasonable to hire someone here?
M
Muley62
Guest
Tuleelk
It sure seems to me that most single guys I know spend alot more money "using their own natural charm" than a prostitute would cost!
It sure seems to me that most single guys I know spend alot more money "using their own natural charm" than a prostitute would cost!
257Tony
Long Time Member
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- 4,173
>Tony the tiger bashes again. there's
>a big diff--------- between earning
>your booker or buying it.
>
Tell me how can I "earn" an LE Elk tag? By putting in your $10 every year? Not exactly earning in my book. How about going out and working your ass of to get the $$$, then buying one. I can say with 100% certainty that every single guy in here would buy up a sweet Elk tag every year if they had the kind of money that Mr. Austad has. If you say you would only hunt "DIY" with an over the counter tag like the rest of us stiffs, you're lying.
>a big diff--------- between earning
>your booker or buying it.
>
Tell me how can I "earn" an LE Elk tag? By putting in your $10 every year? Not exactly earning in my book. How about going out and working your ass of to get the $$$, then buying one. I can say with 100% certainty that every single guy in here would buy up a sweet Elk tag every year if they had the kind of money that Mr. Austad has. If you say you would only hunt "DIY" with an over the counter tag like the rest of us stiffs, you're lying.
eelgrass
Long Time Member
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- 31,572
Kill the animal any way you figure you can get away with. Then just sign the "fair chase statement" and you're home free.
We all know it happens.....a lot!
''North american animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.''
A real brave guideline. That statement only applies to the hunters who like to follow the law and have morals. Fewer every year.
Eel
We all know it happens.....a lot!
''North american animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.''
A real brave guideline. That statement only applies to the hunters who like to follow the law and have morals. Fewer every year.
Eel
LAST EDITED ON Oct-08-08 AT 07:49PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-08-08 AT 07:49?PM (MST)
ITS OPEN TO INTERPRETATION! thats what it means to me, face it they have the money to buy 170,000 dollar tags every year they have the money to get their picture in a book. Its just not fair to poor people that cant afford it well life isnt fair, the money goes to the ground its a good thing besides people say they dont earn their animal like the rest of us do. Well maybe not in the same way but these guys earn enough money by being smart enough to run or own multi million dollar companys and so they probably dont have the time to step away from their jobs and do all the leg work, they do have the dough to pay to have the leg work done for them. and honestly Denny Austad was supposed to kill the spider bull if he wasnt the chosen one someone else would be sitting behind him in the pictures. IT WAS MENT TO BE
ITS OPEN TO INTERPRETATION! thats what it means to me, face it they have the money to buy 170,000 dollar tags every year they have the money to get their picture in a book. Its just not fair to poor people that cant afford it well life isnt fair, the money goes to the ground its a good thing besides people say they dont earn their animal like the rest of us do. Well maybe not in the same way but these guys earn enough money by being smart enough to run or own multi million dollar companys and so they probably dont have the time to step away from their jobs and do all the leg work, they do have the dough to pay to have the leg work done for them. and honestly Denny Austad was supposed to kill the spider bull if he wasnt the chosen one someone else would be sitting behind him in the pictures. IT WAS MENT TO BE
