Biggest issues....

elks96

Long Time Member
Messages
3,815
So it has been pretty quiet in the forums and on social media in general. What are the biggest concerns you have for hunting in Colorado as we move forward over the next few years?

What concerns do you have? What solutions? Is there anything pressing in your area that is concerning?

For me I am still concerned about the deer herds and range conditions in the NW.

I am also concerned about the Shell Lease properties in unit 22. Also concerned and would like to see some thought put into management style hunts in some of the top units, 2 or 3 5 point or smaller bulls out of units 1, 2, 201, 10.... Same for deer in some of the top deer units 3 point of less bucks in some top deer units!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-21-15 AT 10:23PM (MST)[p]I wouldn't be so much concerned about Shell's property leases in 22. With the current crash in the Oil and Gas industry wilth the major decrease in Oil prices it will be interesting to see if it pans out over the next couple years before Obama is gone and we can get the economy back on track.... hopefully....

The winter has been mild i don't think winter kill as far cold is concerned will kill off alot of deer in NW colorado (unless things change drastically). Lack of feed perhaps but units 2, 10 and 201 (especially 10) don't have the high densities of deer to truly overpopulate the feed demand in these areas even though it is less than stellar.


Not so much a fan on the management hunts yet. With these units I believe; the less hunting pressure/hunters around the better. It takes young bucks/bulls to make old bucks/bulls. Keep the management the same. Change the draw to a lottery however to give the younger generation like myself a realistic chance to draw. The hybrid system is a half assed attempt at it....


Coloradoboy
 
My biggest concern is the persistent point creep. Having played the point game for many years I am now to the age that I don't know if I can draw a hunt in the premo units before I am too old to hunt. I have too many elk points to burn them on a unit that only takes a few points. If I can ever draw I will not chase the points in the premo units again. I have already quit trying to bank point for deer and lopes. I just use them when I can draw a hunt that fits in with other schedules. Don't really know the answer, the hybrid draw does not seem to be it. Going to a straight lottery draw would penalize all us old guys but the youngsters will never draw under the current rules???????
 
For the front range, habitat loss remains the big issue, as I suspect it is in most populated areas of the state. An interesting trend here in COS is hydromulching to mitigate wildfire danger on the edges of urban areas. This greatly improves habitat for wildlife. A lot of that was done on the Uncompahgre plateau in recent years. Fire and flood mitigation work are ongoing issues here. The Front Range and South Park units remain too expensive in points for their value, because of easy access to population centers. I'd like to see additional RFW opportunities in the southern half of the state, particularly south central and southwest.

Resident license fees are long overdue for an increase. I'm opposed to increasing the cost of applying i.e. buying points, in order to gain better odds. Deep pockets already have access to outfitted private land hunts and vouchers that mere mortals cannot afford.

RE point creep: I favor a gradual transition to lottery draws for the units that are now hybrid. Allow maybe 5 years for high point holders to cash in, while gradually increasing the % of lottery tags awarded in those units. To reduce point creep, there could be a cap of 5 or 7 points in the popular units, then everyone @ the cap goes into a lottery. Which would lead to a statewide cap, and any unit that required more than the cap would become cap/lottery.

Management hunts are only valuable if there is a population or sex-ratio management issue, which doesn't seem to be a problem in those hybrid units. If management hunts are indicated, they should happen soon after 4th season, say early Dec.

Just thinking out loud.
 
Being able to draw a dang tag in a unit where you can shoot something more than a forky. Animal numbers are slowly rebounding but sheesh the wait just plain sucks.

Predators such as bears and lions. Bear eat a ton of fawns in the spring and lions? Well they eat a deer a week and ya likely can't find a water hole without a cat sitting on it. Want more big game then kill the competition. Bear hunting this fall should be pretty good with the new seasons and I hope the hunters put a world of hurt on their numbers. We had an encounter on every archery elk hunt this fall to where they were a nuisance and you had to be vigil. They showed no sign of fear.


"Courage is being scared to death but
saddling up anyway."
 
My biggest concern is Robert Bray, Chairman of the CPW Commission and owner/operator of a 20,000 acre ranch in Colorado. Looking out for the public hunter interests?? We saw an example when he was part of the Landowner Voucher program Review Committee.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Jan-21-15
>AT 10:23?PM (MST)

>
>I wouldn't be so much concerned
>about Shell's property leases in
>22. With the current crash
>in the Oil and Gas
>industry wilth the major decrease
>in Oil prices it will
>be interesting to see if
>it pans out over the
>next couple years before Obama
>is gone and we can
>get the economy back on
>track.... hopefully....
>
>The winter has been mild i
>don't think winter kill as
>far cold is concerned will
>kill off alot of deer
>in NW colorado (unless things
>change drastically). Lack of feed
>perhaps but units 2, 10
>and 201 (especially 10) don't
>have the high densities of
>deer to truly overpopulate the
>feed demand in these areas
>even though it is less
>than stellar.
>
>
>Not so much a fan on
>the management hunts yet. With
>these units I believe; the
>less hunting pressure/hunters around the
>better. It takes young bucks/bulls
>to make old bucks/bulls. Keep
>the management the same. Change
>the draw to a lottery
>however to give the younger
>generation like myself a realistic
>chance to draw. The hybrid
>system is a half assed
>attempt at it....
>
>
>Coloradoboy

See my other post on the Shell Lease. Not sure there is much we can do!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-23-15 AT 07:02AM (MST)[p]+1 that Robert Bray and the minions he sends to do his work are far and away the biggest threat to hunting in Colorado today..

Robert Bray as well as the work of his minions is by far the biggest threat hunting in Colorado has seen over the past 15 years.

Commissioner Bray is the definition of corrupt, has lined his pockets with over half a million of tax payers dollars, and will stop at no lengths to use corruption or other back door methods to take tags from resident hunters in order to sell them to the highest bidder. If you like to hunt on public land this threat is very real.

This year Commissioner Bray was the sole reason for units not moving to the 80 - 20 split as mandated.. Robert Bray also tried to pull the wool over hunters eyes by removing resident tags WITHOUT COMMENT and even went as far as to request that no public comment would be available.. Only when a lot of hunters spoke up did he unwillingly accept to public comment - sickening...

Robert Bray was successful this year in he was the sole reason for the trigger for units to move to 80 - 20 moved back to the 2007 season and we all know point creep has happened since then. Corruption at its finest on the Colorado Parks and Wildlife commission.

It is also to be noted that his main public supporter/gofer/minion or Chris Journey is doing everything he can as well to to serve Commissioner Bray to a fault and help take tags from resident hunters. It is a fact that Chris is the only one I know of to publicly support Robert Bray and his policies - the only one!!! Line your pockets is what these boys do no matter how high the is cost to the rest of us. Their preferred method to use corruption at the highest levels and do everything they can to limit/silence public input. Guys like Robert Bray and minions are sailing every hunter up the river on their way. It is pitiful that we have such corruption on the Commission that negatively effects so many.

It is to the point where all hunters need to take note and make make a stand against the culture of corruption that has taken over the Colorado Wildlife commission. Resident hunters better pay attention or the as the likes of Robert Bray will not stop their effort to take resident tags to satisfy their never ending greed.
 
Here is the DENVER POST article about the lucky Robert Bray.

To observers at recent Colorado Wildlife Commission meetings, it's come to be known as "the huddle," this strategic gathering of two commissioners and two key representatives of the agricultural community.

Heads wag knowingly as the quartet - commissioners Robert Bray and Bob Shoemaker, along with T. Wright Dickinson of the Colorado Cattleman's Association and Garin Bray of the Colorado Farm Bureau - drift off to coordinate their efforts toward skimming more valuable deer and elk licenses for resale by landowners.

On the surface, there's nothing unusual about a wildlife commissioner assuming a position of advocacy on various issues. Robert Bray and Shoemaker were appointed to the 11-member policy-making body specifically as agriculturalists, reflecting an enduring political culture in which farmers and ranchers seek uncommon sway in wildlife affairs.

Nor is it remarkable to find agents of the state's primary husbandry organizations hammering the commission for a bigger slice of a license pie that grows more valuable each year. That particular exercise began more than three decades ago, and ranchers have been sharpening their pencils ever since.

What becomes increasingly disturbing is the appearance of a conflict of interest that looms larger with two recent developments. One involves two major government grants to Bray worth more than $1 million. Another is tangled in the latest hot-button debate over landowner preference.

Through the Colorado Species Conservation Program administered by the Colorado Division of Wildlife, Bray this year was awarded an allotment valued at approximately $800,000 to facilitate habitat development for the threatened Gunnison sage grouse on 900 acres of a large sheep and cattle ranch he operates near Redvale in the southwest corner of the state. Funding comes in part from a Great Outdoors Colorado grant, the rest from matching federal funds.

By all accounts, Bray's property contains prime grouse habitat suitable for inclusion in a recovery effort. It must be noted that the negotiation began long before he became a wildlife commissioner last March, but that certain elements remain unsettled. DOW officials say the exact dollar amount hasn't been determined.

Further, the deal is contingent upon Bray maintaining certain standards on the property subject to oversight by DOW. This puts the wildlife agency on shaky ground should these considerations put it at odds with a man who stands as one of its bosses. Can DOW actually hold Bray's feet to the fire if he hedges on the agreement?

Clearly, the recipient of a rich DOW grant now sits in judgment of the agency that gave it.

Things get stickier from here.

More recently, Bray, a remarkably lucky fellow, received another grant - this for $311,175 directly from Great Outdoors Colorado - for a conservation easement on a separate parcel of the ranch to ensure against future development, also for grouse protection.

This also is a process that began long before Bray was chosen for the wildlife commission in March, but the final vote of approval came just weeks ago. That's where Dickinson comes in. Owner of a large ranch in Moffat County, Dickinson is an elected county commissioner and appears often at various wildlife meetings, either as a stockman advocate or critic of the DOW.

More to the point, Dickinson also is a member of the GoCo Board of Directors; this month, he voted in favor of giving Bray more than $300,000. The two collude openly in an effort to expand the voucher system by which ranchers get off-the-top permits for the most prized deer and elk licenses.

This involves a two-part pilot program initiated in response to landowner demands. DOW proposes a test in Unit 10 by which ranchers get more elk vouchers while hosting public hunters. A second provision gives eastern Colorado landowners additional family-only tags for antelope. The "huddlers" immediately pushed to include several other West Slope units in the pilot and to expand the family tags to include deer.

Expansion of the pilot program is roundly viewed as a clever wedge to get ranchers the added vouchers they failed to obtain through a power play last fall, blunted by a sportsman uprising. A similar attempt earlier this year through a License Allocation Working Group stacked toward commercial interests also crashed, again from opposition by the hunting rank and file.

The quartet seemed to sway the commission at a November meeting in Greeley, but sentiment appeared to turn when sportsmen finally joined the debate at the December gathering.

Bray receives a substantial number of deer vouchers for sale from his ranch - DOW won't say how many - and potentially would benefit financially from any future percentage increase in vouchers. Dickinson's ranch would profit immediately and directly from Bray's proposal to expand the pilot to include units requiring five or more preference points.

Despite a familial connection and the obvious aspect of complicity, Garin Bray, Robert Bray's daughter and a representative of the Colorado Farm Bureau, was given one of the 15 seats on the LAWG and became a vocal advocate of a proposal to allow substantially more of these vouchers.

Yet when Robert Bray was asked at that Dec. 8 commission meeting about possible conflicts of interest, he bridled at the suggestion.

"I'll excuse myself from any vote that involves any conflict," Bray snapped before hurrying away.

The fact remains he already has spoken proactively and often on voucher issues that benefit himself and Dickinson, his ally and benefactor.

The question also arises why the administration would appoint a man in line to receive more than $1 million in state conservation funds and scads of money from the sale of license vouchers to a commission with oversight over some of the same programs. Or why Bray would accept.

Big game hunting has become big business in Colorado; vouchers that allow high rollers to stand first in line for hard-to-get licenses sometimes sell for five figures. The voucher system - from legislative action at a time when agricultural interests held much more political sway - bestows to landowners 15 percent of the most coveted licenses right off the top, before the rest of us can bid. These vouchers are bought and sold like stock options, traded variously among ranchers and outfitters, always to the highest bidder.

More recently, landowners began pushing for an even juicier share, a move that would push ordinary hunters farther back in line behind those with money. When it comes to hunting vouchers, greed knows no limits.

What does come as a shock is the sharp change in the tenor of the wildlife commission, heretofore a balanced group that typically made the well-being of the resource and of the average license buyer its primary concerns.

Robert Bray's voice is heard more than any other commissioner these days, always for mandates that line the pockets of stockmen. When he and Shoemaker aren't speaking, Dickinson and Garin Bray parade to the podium to drive the points home.
 
Another background article from the Denver Post spring of last year..

An uprising is afoot among Colorado's rank-and-file sportsmen. The degree of revolt depends largely on discussion slated for 5 p.m. Thursday at the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission's monthly meeting in Glenwood Springs. The general public is encouraged to attend.

At issue is the recent attempt by CPW commissioner Robert Bray to increase the proportion of big game license allocations for nonresident hunters in limited draw units at the expense of Colorado residents. A big game license subcommittee studying the proposal at commissioner Bray's behest is scheduled to make a preliminary presentation at the Glenwood Springs Ramada Inn on Thursday afternoon.

It's not the first time the two-time commissioner and big game hunting outfitter from southwestern Colorado has attempted to carve out a larger slice of the increasingly valuable license pie for large landowners and outfitters such as himself, nor is it likely to be the last. It is, after all, Bray's position as an "agricultural" representative of the commission to advocate on behalf of ranchers such as himself in an effort to maintain the considerable political clout that community has managed to achieve among wildlife affairs.


And it is clearly in his best interest as well to see a greater portion of limited license allocations awarded to out-of-state hunters who are more likely to hire the services of an outfitter such as himself or other members of the Colorado Outfitters Association. But it is certainly not in the best interest of the Colorado sportsmen who serve as the backbone of wildlife management and conservation statewide.

While there's no argument that nonresidents deserve a fair opportunity to hunt game in Colorado, there is a pretty compelling one recognizing that our state already offers the best opportunity for nonresidents to hunt big game in the nation. Nonresidents are allocated 35 percent of the limited license draw for big game tags in most units, and Colorado offers unlimited over-the-counter elk licenses to both resident and nonresident hunters in 92 game units statewide.

In addition, a full 15 percent of the licenses in every totally limited hunting unit is already set aside for landowners through the Landowner Preference Program that allows for lucrative transfers to non-resident hunters seeking a trophy from Colorado. That percentage increases next year by 5-10 percent, depending upon location.

Simply put, any nonresident can hunt elk, and usually deer, in Colorado every year already. With no change, there is no squabble. But changing the current allocations of resident to nonresident tags benefits few to the detriment of many.

The reasoning that an increase in nonresident license allocation translates to increased revenue for Colorado Parks and Wildlife dismisses the intrinsic value of resident sportsmen and their attendant contributions to wildlife management and conservation statewide. Reducing opportunity for high-quality hunts among residents is also likely to have a cascade effect on hunter recruitment and retention objectives, undermining the tradition of Colorado sportsmen and jeopardizing future generations critical to the success of state wildlife programs.

Big game hunting is big business in Colorado. But selling out to the highest bidder is not always the best business strategy, especially when it comes to the long-term interests of your most loyal stakeholders.
 
He is a skunk, no doubt, and needs to be gone. Is this the same Robert Bray who was a prominent realtor in Grand Junction?
 
I'm not from Colorado, but the recent attitude of the the people there is downright scary.
It sounds like you just about voted in a governor that ran on the proposal to sell off and take control of public lands?

And now it's letting a money grubbing rancher control the public's wildlife?

Listening to coloradoboys brilliant assessment and wish list is scary too, is that what the future holds? sad deal for future of our outdoor legacy.
 
To be honest, I used to be so into the draws and issues, but time has a way of making that pass.

Personal concern? How this years elk season will go once again banging heads with a typical western slope rancher. Last year was bad. Almost came to blows, and I'm the passive type until pushed. Called the DOW, what a joke, serious they were more interested in where I hunt than the problem.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Jan-23-15
>AT 07:02?AM (MST)

>
>+1 that Robert Bray and the
>minions he sends to do
>his work are far and
>away the biggest threat to
>hunting in Colorado today..
>
>Robert Bray as well as the
>work of his minions is
>by far the biggest threat
>hunting in Colorado has seen
>over the past 15 years.
>
>
>Commissioner Bray is the definition of
>corrupt, has lined his pockets
>with over half a million
>of tax payers dollars, and
>will stop at no lengths
>to use corruption or
>other back door methods to
>take tags from resident hunters
>in order to sell them
>to the highest bidder.
>If you like to hunt
>on public land this threat
>is very real.
>
>This year Commissioner Bray was the
>sole reason for units not
>moving to the 80 -
>20 split as mandated..
>Robert Bray also tried to
>pull the wool over hunters
>eyes by removing resident tags
>WITHOUT COMMENT and even went
>as far as to request
>that no public comment would
>be available.. Only when
>a lot of hunters spoke
>up did he unwillingly accept
>to public comment - sickening...
>
>
>Robert Bray was successful this year
>in he was the sole
>reason for the trigger for
>units to move to 80
>- 20 moved back to
>the 2007 season and we
>all know point creep has
>happened since then. Corruption
>at its finest on the
>Colorado Parks and Wildlife commission.
>
>
>It is also to be noted
>that his main public supporter/gofer/minion
>or Chris Journey is doing
>everything he can as well
>to to serve Commissioner Bray
>to a fault and help
>take tags from resident hunters.
> It is a fact
>that Chris is the only
>one I know of to
>publicly support Robert Bray and
>his policies - the only
>one!!! Line your
>pockets is what these boys
>do no matter how high
>the is cost to the
>rest of us. Their
>preferred method to use corruption
>at the highest levels and
>do everything they can to
>limit/silence public input. Guys
>like Robert Bray and minions
>are sailing every hunter up
>the river on their way.
> It is pitiful that
>we have such corruption on
>the Commission that negatively effects
>so many.
>
>It is to the point where
>all hunters need to take
>note and make make a
>stand against the culture of
>corruption that has taken over
>the Colorado Wildlife commission.
>Resident hunters better pay attention
>or the as the likes
>of Robert Bray will not
>stop their effort to take
>resident tags to satisfy their
>never ending greed.
>
>
>
>
>

Chris Journey is just after more NR tags in the NW corner for the sake of his business in units 2,10 and 201......
 
>>LAST EDITED ON Jan-23-15
>>AT 07:02?AM (MST)

>>
>>+1 that Robert Bray and the
>>minions he sends to do
>>his work are far and
>>away the biggest threat to
>>hunting in Colorado today..
>>
>>Robert Bray as well as the
>>work of his minions is
>>by far the biggest threat
>>hunting in Colorado has seen
>>over the past 15 years.
>>
>>
>>Commissioner Bray is the definition of
>>corrupt, has lined his pockets
>>with over half a million
>>of tax payers dollars, and
>>will stop at no lengths
>>to use corruption or
>>other back door methods to
>>take tags from resident hunters
>>in order to sell them
>>to the highest bidder.
>>If you like to hunt
>>on public land this threat
>>is very real.
>>
>>This year Commissioner Bray was the
>>sole reason for units not
>>moving to the 80 -
>>20 split as mandated..
>>Robert Bray also tried to
>>pull the wool over hunters
>>eyes by removing resident tags
>>WITHOUT COMMENT and even went
>>as far as to request
>>that no public comment would
>>be available.. Only when
>>a lot of hunters spoke
>>up did he unwillingly accept
>>to public comment - sickening...
>>
>>
>>Robert Bray was successful this year
>>in he was the sole
>>reason for the trigger for
>>units to move to 80
>>- 20 moved back to
>>the 2007 season and we
>>all know point creep has
>>happened since then. Corruption
>>at its finest on the
>>Colorado Parks and Wildlife commission.
>>
>>
>>It is also to be noted
>>that his main public supporter/gofer/minion
>>or Chris Journey is doing
>>everything he can as well
>>to to serve Commissioner Bray
>>to a fault and help
>>take tags from resident hunters.
>> It is a fact
>>that Chris is the only
>>one I know of to
>>publicly support Robert Bray and
>>his policies - the only
>>one!!! Line your
>>pockets is what these boys
>>do no matter how high
>>the is cost to the
>>rest of us. Their
>>preferred method to use corruption
>>at the highest levels and
>>do everything they can to
>>limit/silence public input. Guys
>>like Robert Bray and minions
>>are sailing every hunter up
>>the river on their way.
>> It is pitiful that
>>we have such corruption on
>>the Commission that negatively effects
>>so many.
>>
>>It is to the point where
>>all hunters need to take
>>note and make make a
>>stand against the culture of
>>corruption that has taken over
>>the Colorado Wildlife commission.
>>Resident hunters better pay attention
>>or the as the likes
>>of Robert Bray will not
>>stop their effort to take
>>resident tags to satisfy their
>>never ending greed.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Chris Journey is just after more
>NR tags in the NW
>corner for the sake of
>his business in units 2,10
>and 201......

While I personally like Chris as a guy, he is after more than just tags in the NW. Sorry but he is buddied up with the outfitters association and as a result they are doing all they can to get more tags state wide. They are looking and trying to pull a USO and use interstate trade laws to sue the CPW stating that the limited licenses they have available is against federal laws. This is something I feel we will see in the next 5 to 10 years. like the guy but I do not like what he wants!
 
>>LAST EDITED ON Jan-23-15
>>AT 07:02?AM (MST)

>>
>>+1 that Robert Bray and the
>>minions he sends to do
>>his work are far and
>>away the biggest threat to
>>hunting in Colorado today..
>>
>>Robert Bray as well as the
>>work of his minions is
>>by far the biggest threat
>>hunting in Colorado has seen
>>over the past 15 years.
>>
>>
>>Commissioner Bray is the definition of
>>corrupt, has lined his pockets
>>with over half a million
>>of tax payers dollars, and
>>will stop at no lengths
>>to use corruption or
>>other back door methods to
>>take tags from resident hunters
>>in order to sell them
>>to the highest bidder.
>>If you like to hunt
>>on public land this threat
>>is very real.
>>
>>This year Commissioner Bray was the
>>sole reason for units not
>>moving to the 80 -
>>20 split as mandated..
>>Robert Bray also tried to
>>pull the wool over hunters
>>eyes by removing resident tags
>>WITHOUT COMMENT and even went
>>as far as to request
>>that no public comment would
>>be available.. Only when
>>a lot of hunters spoke
>>up did he unwillingly accept
>>to public comment - sickening...
>>
>>
>>Robert Bray was successful this year
>>in he was the sole
>>reason for the trigger for
>>units to move to 80
>>- 20 moved back to
>>the 2007 season and we
>>all know point creep has
>>happened since then. Corruption
>>at its finest on the
>>Colorado Parks and Wildlife commission.
>>
>>
>>It is also to be noted
>>that his main public supporter/gofer/minion
>>or Chris Journey is doing
>>everything he can as well
>>to to serve Commissioner Bray
>>to a fault and help
>>take tags from resident hunters.
>> It is a fact
>>that Chris is the only
>>one I know of to
>>publicly support Robert Bray and
>>his policies - the only
>>one!!! Line your
>>pockets is what these boys
>>do no matter how high
>>the is cost to the
>>rest of us. Their
>>preferred method to use corruption
>>at the highest levels and
>>do everything they can to
>>limit/silence public input. Guys
>>like Robert Bray and minions
>>are sailing every hunter up
>>the river on their way.
>> It is pitiful that
>>we have such corruption on
>>the Commission that negatively effects
>>so many.
>>
>>It is to the point where
>>all hunters need to take
>>note and make make a
>>stand against the culture of
>>corruption that has taken over
>>the Colorado Wildlife commission.
>>Resident hunters better pay attention
>>or the as the likes
>>of Robert Bray will not
>>stop their effort to take
>>resident tags to satisfy their
>>never ending greed.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Chris Journey is just after more
>NR tags in the NW
>corner for the sake of
>his business in units 2,10
>and 201......

I heard one of the LO's he was leasing from gave him the boot...Maybe more should be made aware of what he gets for hunts vs what he pays the LO.
 
My biggest concern is money is taking over the sport. Money is the driving force behind the tag grabs by the outfitters/landowners. The wildlife commission does not give a rats ass about what is best for the herds or the hunting community. Their one and only concern is putting more money in their pockets and it does not matter who or what they step on to get an advantage. They are going to keep taking a few percent of the licenses every chance they get.

The next concern I have is poaching and the effect it is having on our mature bucks/bulls in the population. I see a number of people hat are concerned about a few 4th season tags and the effect it will have on mature animal populations. I would venture that there are far more mature animals shot on winter ground and the head/antlers are all that is taken. Far more significant impact than 4th season tags in my opinion. Unfortunately the CPW does not have the resources to address the situation and it is up to sportsmen to be vigilant.

Colorado has the most equitable draw system and should not be changed.
 
I've got to agree with Peanut on this. The trend towards (in the words of the CPW) "The European hunting system" is all about money , power, and the few. Not Joe Hunter. It's too bad the Wildlife Commission is on bed with the money and only the money.
 
It is kinda sad but in reality quite funny to see Chris Journey being used as nothing more than a errand boy for Bray at the meetings but you are what you are and fair to say Chris is no friend and actually pretty much enemy #1 to hunters. He is just the latest oh so willing tool peddling corruption for Bray...

In the meetings Chris reminds me of the house elf on harry potter - just there to serve his master in any way possible. If they were not up to such evil deeds it would be comical watching him run back and forth yes master, yes master, yes master - what should I say next?, yes master, yes master.

While it is undeniable that Bray and Journey are the 2 people taking the lead in stealing tags - it is to be noted there is a powerful as well as well funded sportsman organization and move is afoot that will counter the lawsuit with a state wide ballot initiative for a 80/20 hard split in all draw units. I hope the Bray and Journey pull that little lawsuit as it will waste a lot of money just to have it will backfire when residents have the chance to vote! As that if the lawsuit is filed what it will come to.

Yea a classic good vs evil story and I believe that us good guys will prevail against the evil/corruption of Robert Bray and Chris Journey.

Also since I know Chris is reading this hey bud why not come on here and tell us why you are the face of or leading the charge on stealing tags from resident hunters?
 
I personally am concerned about the growing number of anti-hunters/hunter interactions each year on public ground. To me it seems like there is a growing problem with photographers, backpackers and other groups seeing hunters in the field on public ground and having a serious problem with it. The Brainard Lake incident this year really made me see this as a growing problem. On the western slope I feel that most people I run into are friendly hunters but the closer to Denver I have been the more people seem to glare.

I also believe the draw system needs to be looked at seriously to address the point creep. I personally would like to see hunters burning their points to hunt any buck/bull. I hunt otc every year and build points just like the rest but would not mind burning a point every year to hunt the units I do. I truly believe if hunters had to burn a point for an otc bull tag there would be less people building points as well as less people hunting otc units each year.
 
>When you guys talk 80/20, are
>you speaking of res/nr split?
>

Yes. The rules state that any draw that requires more than x amount of resident points shifts the split to an 80 percent resident and 20 percent non resident split! The top elk units have been this way for years, however there are many other hunts that now qualify but the landowners and outfitters have managed to dodge and block it!

Again it is only for tags that require high resident points, but there are a few that meet the needed points but they have managed to keep the split from changing!
 
Since we are bitching...
CPW's field staff have always been under-educated and under-manned but lately it's been almost comical dealing with them. How can these young men and women be expected to seriously address the myriad of issues concerning game management? Here along the front range and mostly the plains, whitetail and elk are taking over, displacing muleys. Jake-leg outfitters are around every corner. Poaching is a huge problem (especially SE plains). Range conditions are poor at best.These things alone are having enormous impacts on mule deer. Hickenpoopers new and improved park service is more concerned with checking for mussels at already contaminated lakes and OHV use than actually solving problems.
There will always be droughts, over-grazing, outfitters, and predation (which the mange is helping with now). Reputable outfitters and ranch managers always try to stay on top of these, as it directly effects their future. Jake-legs, unlicensed outfitters, and big money cattle ranches are over harvesting bucks and overgrazing pastures so now nothing but broom weed and chollas fill the landscape.
Get ahead of the whitetail explosion by working deals with landowners and offering extended youth and disabled seasons. It would be great to see kids kill a few whiteys while they wait for their muley tag in the mountains.
Unfortunately, as long as the CPW remains under-staffed, poaching will continue to happen. Other than policing ourselves and educating our youth, I don't see poaching going anywhere.
Nothing is going to change on the plains anytime soon, I just wanted to give my opinion on another part of the state.
 
Didn't want to start a new thread on the topic but was wondering if there was anything new on the point banking possibility. I expect not based on surfing past posts.

***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-28-15 AT 06:41PM (MST)[p]>Since we are bitching...
>CPW's field staff have always been
>under-educated and under-manned but lately
>it's been almost comical dealing
>with them. How can
>these young men and women
>be expected to seriously address
>the myriad of issues concerning
>game management? Here along
>the front range and mostly
>the plains, whitetail and elk
>are taking over, displacing muleys.
> Jake-leg outfitters are around
>every corner. Poaching is
>a huge problem (especially SE
>plains). Range conditions are
>poor at best.These things alone
>are having enormous impacts on
>mule deer. Hickenpoopers new
>and improved park service is
>more concerned with checking for
>mussels at already contaminated lakes
>and OHV use than actually
>solving problems.
>There will always be droughts,
>over-grazing, outfitters, and predation (which
>the mange is helping with
>now). Reputable outfitters
>and ranch managers always try
>to stay on top of
>these, as it directly effects
>their future. Jake-legs, unlicensed
>outfitters, and big money cattle
>ranches are over harvesting bucks
>and overgrazing pastures so now
>nothing but broom weed and
>chollas fill the landscape.
>Get ahead of the whitetail explosion
>by working deals with landowners
>and offering extended youth and
>disabled seasons. It would
>be great to see kids
>kill a few whiteys while
>they wait for their muley
>tag in the mountains.
>Unfortunately, as long as the CPW
>remains under-staffed, poaching will continue
>to happen. Other than
>policing ourselves and educating our
>youth, I don't see poaching
>going anywhere.
>Nothing is going to change on
>the plains anytime soon, I
>just wanted to give my
>opinion on another part of
>the state.

+1 zekers.

Totally agree with you. Adding to the whitetail explosion. I saw 15 head of whitetails off both the Illinois and Michigan river while in Walden over new years ice fishing. Couldn't believe it... The deer off the Illinois were running around right in town. Also have heard several locals around town talking about a couple whitetails does living off the Colorado river around Burns.

Coloradoboy
 
Seen em up in Walden years ago. Bout wrecked my truck first time I saw 1 up there, couldn't believe it!
 
>Seen em up in Walden years
>ago. Bout wrecked my truck
>first time I saw 1
>up there, couldn't believe it!
>

So do we think we need to kill me out before they start competing with mule deer or are they an acceptable critter to have around?

Is it time for us to look at whitetail only tags west of i25 with the purpose of elimination to help mule deer?
 
Absolutely. White tails are a blast to hunt and taste better than a muley, but will outcompete muleys in all the best forage/shelter areas. DOW had the same attitude towards them 8-10 years ago, now they are playing catch up. It's like a coyote, once they're established, you're not getting rid of them.
 
Well I had to blow up today and send off e-mails to the Board members for closing hunting around Brainard, Lake on 100% public land. This was because of the legal Moose hunting that took place this past fall during the archery season. So the DOW has caved under pressure to the anti's once again. Sportsman are responsible for bringing the Moose back to Colorado and now we are losing the opportunity to hunt them all on a commisions vote. I am done with the DOW representing me and any wildlife related issues. Time to take it back and get folks in there that represent the hunters and the wildlife's best interests. Not to represent the few and the views of anti's and special interest Board members.
 
Thanks for all the thoughts guys. There is a pattern developing in this thread. While there are some issues people have brought up on a local scale and individual concern, the vast majority of the complaints are about the board and board decisions.

I personally am not happy the board decided to close hunting down in the moose case, also not happy they struck a hunters ability to have a lion tag in hand during the regular hunting seasons.

I will not get started on the Landowner Voucher changes and the Bray issue.
 
Elks96, I was told(by a Board member) that it was the staff who voted on the Moose closure. We are losing huntable access all over this State. I have been reading on unit 22 that you have commented on. I truly believe the DOW should be working on gaining opportunity to hunt, instead we are losing acre by acre, tag by tag.
 
+1 on what has been mentioned I have a bunch more and would love to add to yours but elks asked for our personal biggest...
Mine is fawn to doe numbers per 100. West Slope Post hunt early January Arial Population surveys (Counts) 2014

North of I70 in the 50's

Central "Gunny" mid to low 40's

SW corner 30's..
Waiting to see January 2015 data. Hope it improved but from what I am seeing it did not.
 
Colorado's problem is they do not manage their herd (or at least enough units) for mature bulls. Colorado is beautiful and the elk hunting can be awesome in terms of numbers. But if you really want to challenge yourself an go for something more gusto it is just not that great of a state. Too many bulls get shot.
 

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