Bivy sack advice

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Bruinbrewin

Active Member
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I am going to be doing a back country hunt in the mountains in New Mexico 3 days at a time, hike out shower, restock and go back for another 3 days over a couple of weeks time frame. I am gearing up with some of the better gear that I have read positive reviews on here (cost, performance, weight, etc), Big Agnes Seedhouse SL2 tent and the BA Mystic bag and the dual core mattress. I want to add one more level of protection as this last weekend I had some snow get blown into the tent. Since I am going with the down bag (which risks getting wet)and BA has a reputation for being over rated on the temperature ratings, can anyone with more experience in back country help advise me on a bivy bag that you could recommend for protection from the down bag getting wet and also add a little more thermal protection? It seems to me that extra 1 lb. for a bivy sack should meet all of my concerns for making this a great experience. I have read some pros and cons to bivy bags but not in conjunction with a 3 season tent. Will I have any condensation issues inside the bivy tent inside the seedhouse tent? I am hoping to keep my down bag dry and have an enjoyable experience but lack the experience. Temps this weekend were low teens with snow getting blown in the tent, can anyone recommend a bivy bag that has proven effective for them, Marmot, MSR. REI? Getting up there in years so hiking in and out 3 miles with a J107 pack and Weatherby and optics is taking its toll and I think I could increase my odds of finding a quality critter with the additional time to thoroughly cover this new area. Any help is greatly appreciated!!!!
BB
 
P.S. I may have to chip through some ice to get to water but I am pretty sure I have a water source back there. I have an older first need water filter that was a gift some 10 years ago, will this fill my needs or should I just update to a better more modern filter to restock my water suppliers every day?
BB
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-10 AT 10:35AM (MST)[p]I've used a Moonstone bivy for years. They have advantages and drawbacks. Obviously the size is small and mine doesn't have a hoop in it, they can get downright claustrophobic. You can't change inside of them. Long periods of wet weather will force you back to your base. Condensation does build up in them making it necessary to air out a down bag. Seems to me your problem is your tent. I can't imagine a reason to try and go super light and bring both a tent and a bivy. Perhaps just altering your site selection and orientation of the tent to the weather will cure the problem.

My first water filter was a First Need. It plugged up easily, was not field servicable, and was not ergonomic, a real juggling act to fill a bottle. Get something more modern.
 
Thanks Beanman, I figured the purifier HAD TO BE OUTDATED! As for the bivy and the tent I figured the tent as my preferred style of shelter for possible extended rain stay and gear storage and the bivy for added thermal and protection of the down bag getting wet. It sounds like just by its nature, the bivy sacks will get some moisture inside the bivy each use just by sleeping in it, is that an accurate interpretation?
BB
 
Bruin,

Having some moisture retention in my down bag while in a bivy has been my experience. The bivy has the usual coated nylon floor and a goretex top. I would guess that some of the bigger bivy's with a hoop would tend to breathe better but they are also larger. I like the idea of using a bivy sack but you need to be aware of the downfalls and limitations. I have a small coated nylon tarp 4'by 5' that I sometimes rig as a shelter over the head section of the bivy. At some point you would be just better off with a very small and light tent.
 
I've had a water filter freeze on me in cold temps. Consider bringing some iodine or chlorine as a backup.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-10 AT 08:43PM (MST)[p]i believe my Outdoor research bivy sack is as good as you can buy. i've never had a problem with condensation? maybe i have never used it in the right situation? but i have used it alot and never seen it. i also have a DO-IT bivy sack/ VERY SMALL 1 MAN tent, that condensates like crazy. you wake up with pools of water on your bag. Both have been used in the same areas. so my conclusion: the OUTDOOR RESEARCH is a great bivy that doesn't condensate.


but in the end, i only take it if i dont plan on using it. [for backup only, they are very small and if it's too wet- you'll track moisture inside] if i think i need a shelter of any sorts, i take my 1 man marmot ESO 1 . WITH THE VESTEBULE!
 
Killer,

Is your OR bivy one with hoops? I can see how one of those would vent better. I was just looking at their website, their two versions with hoops look nice although they weigh about 2 pounds which starts to approach a one man tent weight.
 
mine is in between. instead of haveing a place you can put a small tent pole, it has 2 places yo can tie a string to and give yourself an open area around you head/ upper chest. it weighs 1 lb 1 oz [if i remeber right]. the rest of it comes into contact with your sleeping bag and i've still never had any condensation issues. my other, alot cheaper, bivy has a bigger area , with some small tent poles, that opens up an area clear down to your knees. it even has an area you can crack open, and still be water proof, for venting it more. that piece of junk is my loaner now. you wake up with pools of water on your bag. all i can assume is it's the material. i absolutly do not know this for fact. but again many times i loan the one for a guy coming with me on a trip. the ouddor research hasn't ever condensated when the DO-IT is dripping water.
for comparison though, i think i bought my outdoor research for $180.00 and i think i paid $ 40.00 for the DO-IT. it has a great design though.
but again, any more they only go if there is little to no chance of weather. i do believe that once it's starts a steady rain you would end up wet just getting in and out of it.[ not by any leaking ,, just by everyday using it.]
hope it helps
 
I think they may be a little heavier than most, but Ive been using a military surplus bivy sack. It is coated nylon on the bottom and gortex on the top. I put my Exped down mat and sleeping bag inside and everything stays clean and dry. I have been using this bivy sack for the last 2 years and have never noticed any moisture problems inside. When I first started using it, I thought it would be damp inside but its not. The good thing about having everything inside a bivy sack, even inside a tent is that you can crawl into the tent in wet chothes and sit on top of your bag and not have to worry about getting anything dirty. All 4 of us used these bivy sacks this year. A bivy sack will also add a little to the warmth of your bag.
 
Shortgun,
Do you have a link you could share where to buy this bivy sack that you are using? Do you know how much it does weigh?
BB
 
My son bought them of off Ebay. Im not sure what he paid for them but will ask. I think it was in the 60 dollar range. Ill weigh the bivy to see what it scales out at. The thing I really like about it is it is really tough and you dont have to worry about something poking a hole in it and in your sleeping pad.
 
I've bought 4 of the military bivi's through ebay. At least two of them from "liljabz5187". I am waiting for the last one purchased a couple of days ago. They were advertised as in very good condition, no rips or tears. The three that I have been using for the last year were like new when I received them. They looked like they had never been used. Didn't pay over
$40 for any of them. An outstanding value!

Norkal
 
If you are sure you need or want a bivy bag then I would suggest something using eVent instead of Gore-Tex. Take a look at what Integral Designs or Wildthings Gear offers. Extremely high quality gear and the eVent will perform better in that application.

Though I am still not sure why you are getting so much snow blown in to the tent.

Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
 
I didn't have much snow in the tent but I want to keep my down bag dry if possible. My thoughts by using the bivy inside the seedhouse were I could add a couple of degrees of comfort to the bag and if I climb in wet or muddy I wouldn't need to worry about my bag. The trouble I have been running into is finding a bivy that is large enough to accept the Big Agnes mystic and long sleeping pad. Most of the bivy's are for mummy style and not enough room in the foot area. I think I found one that will be big enough for my needs. Does anyone have any first hands experience with Titanium Goat bivy? They are in the process of making a bivy large enough to accept a winter bag and pad. It is not eVent material so not waterproof (DWR) but I understand it breathes great, works great in a shelter for condensation,will have a right and left side zips as well as 1 across the chest.
I am mostly looking to protect my bag in nasty weather in remote areas. I think the extra 6-10 ounces they weigh is cheap insurance to keep my butt dry and spirits up.
BB
 
Funny you should mention that Wade, I just found a BA Encampment on Craigs List with a pad for $140 used once. I am going to look at it tomorrow.
THX
BB
 
From what I can see here we need to enhance the capability of your existing bag and pad.

I would suggest an over bag or an insulated bag liner as alternatives to a bivy bag if temperature is the issue you are trying to address. A bivy bag is not going to do much in terms of temperature especially if you are sleeping in a tent.

A bivy bag gives you no or very little additional thermal insulation. If you think you might get cold you need more insulation/loft/dead air space.

An over bag will both protect the inner bag and add insulation to keep you warm.

You might also add a closed cell foam or ensolite pad to double up on your bottom insulation. It makes a big difference when it is really cold.

Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
 
Thanks Wade, I do have a 40 degree BA Yampa bag (I could use as an overbag)if I wanted to make sure i stayed warm. I will probably throw that in my truck just in case. I will be hiking out every 3-4 days cause if I was to stay out there the full 14 days I would be talking to myself and be ready for a straight jacket. I'm pretty sure I can keep my bag dry without a cover so if I don't find what I am looking for before the trip I can live with the equipment I have. I just thought a nice 5-9 ounce bag cover would be a plus to have. Too bad contractor bags do not breathe. :)
THX
BB
 
In 2006 used a Eureka Solitare and it worked pretty well, with minimal condensation and had enough room to change, etc. We had high and dry weather at 10,000 feet.

In 2009 used The North Face Dyad 22 and a great light weight option, but condensation was an issue. i singe wall tent that never leaked, but had lots of condesation even with the vetns wide open. We had rain the first 6 days of the 9 day hunt and condensation was an issue. However, my down bag never got moisture to a point of even remote concern. We were at 11,500 feet elevation.

There are some very good 1 man and 2 man light weight options available that will give you some precious extra space at very minimal weight gain.

WillPower

"My only regret in life is setting my goals too low"
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-18-10 AT 08:54PM (MST)[p]

From what I can see here we need to enhance the capability of your existing bag and pad.
I would suggest an over bag or an insulated bag liner as alternatives to a bivy bag if temperature is the issue you are trying to address. A bivy bag is not going to do much in terms of temperature especially if you are sleeping in a tent.

A bivy bag gives you no or very little additional thermal insulation. If you think you might get cold you need more insulation/loft/dead air space.

An over bag will both protect the inner bag and add insulation to keep you warm.

You might also add a closed cell foam or ensolite pad to double up on your bottom insulation. It makes a big difference when it is really cold.

Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can only assume you have never USED/tested a bivy sack?

there is no way in this world you could have SLEPT in a bivy sack and say it doesn't add warmth to your bag? i have 3 different ones, and have slept in 5 different models, imagine just wrapping yourself in a tarp? in fact, most of them will state: they add 10 degree to your bag, i wont get in an arguement over how many degrees, but if you have used one , you know, you WILL ad warmth to your bag, i may not be a pro, but i have slept in alot of bivy sacks......
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-18-10 AT 10:02PM (MST)[p]well then to correct an ignorant post, You WILL ABOSOLUTLY GAIN SOME INSULATION WHILE SLEEPING IN A BIVY SACK.
if it's a matter of who's opinion to go off of, i'd say neither. just go to ANY local mtn. climbing store and ask every sales rep there is. you WILL add roughly 10 degrees to your bag while sleeping in a bivy sack. that is fact.......
 
Ok Killerbee, here we go and I only indulge you because A) if the past is any indication you will eventually make me look smarter than I really am and B) because everytime I get into it with you the traffic on my site jumps.

So as opposed to asking the zit faced, know nothing but what the tag says college kid at the local REI why a bivy sack adds 10 degrees to the temp rating on my sleeping bag why don't you explain it to us.

Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
 
>Ok Killerbee, here we go and
>I only indulge you because
>A) if the past is
>any indication you will eventually
>make me look smarter than
>I really am and B)
>because everytime I get into
>it with you the traffic
>on my site jumps.
>
>So as opposed to asking the
>zit faced, know nothing but
>what the tag says college
>kid at the local REI
>why a bivy sack adds
>10 degrees to the temp
>rating on my sleeping bag
>why don't you explain it
>to us.
>
>Wade
>www.HardcoreOutdoor.com


no, for once, lets do it another way. you tell me how a bivy DOES NOT add degrees to a persons bag??

see this way you cannot argue someones misspelled words for an excuse.

so: Tell me how you come up with , : bivy sacks do not add ANY temp rating to a bag??



meanwhile, other than the fact i've slept in ALOT of bivy's and have a little input, i will start copying and pasting many of your own companies quotes to say differnetly:)

lets hear it??
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-18-10 AT 11:10PM (MST)[p]

just for a little help. and i wont use my own wording, if anyone has ever really used one, in condition they were meant for, they absolutly add a temp. rating to your bag. here are a few web sites, but you can do a very simple google serch and get 100's of other web sites who agree.....


http://sectionhiker.com/2009/09/28/sleeping-bag-temperature-ratings-fact-or-fantasy
http://www.adventuresportsonline.com/bivisacks.htm
http://www.adventurenetwork.com/cgi-bin/adventurenetwork/Solo_Shelters.html
http://www.thefind.com/sports/info-bivy-bag
http://shopping.canoe.ca/shop/content--locale_en__name_sleeping-bags__cid_492.html
 
That's about what I thought. You only know what you have been told by the reps. Well let me 'splain it for you.

A bivy sack or bag is simply a mini tent. They were developed by climbers and mountaineers as an ulralight tent or emergency shelter for one person for weight saving purposes. They are an alternative to the tent. They provide protection from precipitation (rain/snow) and wind. Larger bivy shelters with more head room, hoops and bug netting etc have evolved out of the original bivy bag concept. Agreed?

Bivy sacks don't add degrees to a temperature rating because they don't add any loft, dead air space or insulation. They protect or retain or maximize existing temperature ratings by keeping the insulation at its peak efficiency. It is a shell that creates a micro climate around the bag and protects it from being disturbed by wind (convective and radiative heat loss) and or rendered efficient or useless by water (rain or snow).

Which, in this case, is aready being done by the tent he is sleeping in. If the OP uses a bivy sack in a tent he should also wear two shell jackets or two rubbers for that matter. It is what Reed Thorn calls "redundititus" and it is unnecessary. They do the same thing and there is no appreciable benefit to using both at the same time.

Walk into those same shops and ask those same reps you think so highly of if they will also give you the extra 10 degrees on your sleeping bag rating if you are sleeping in a tent and the answer should be yes because it is doing the same thing. And the manufacturers are assuming that you are using their bivy sacks as an alternative to not in conjunction with a tent when they quote that 10 degree bump. Who uses a bivy bag and a tent? Nobody I know.

If I put you in a zero degree bag on a pad in the middle of a snow field with a 10 mph breeze that bag would not hold up to its temp rating because you would be radiating heat through the bag and it would be sucked away from you through convective heat loss caused by the wind. If I added a tent to that equation and stopped the convective heat loss by protecting you completely from the wind that zero degree bag would fair much better. I wouldn't be adding anything to the rating but I wouldn't be losing anything either, I would in fact be allowing the insulation to be insulating at its maximum effectiveness.

The only difference between a tent and a bivy sack is the size of the micro climate created and any advantage produced by the smaller micro climate of the bivy sack is going to be mitigated by conductive heat loss-meaning the interior of the cold bivy sack is touching the exterior of the warm sleeping bag.

I said he is not going to get any more or very little bang for his buck temperature wise using a bivy bag if he is also using a tent.

The real question here is tent or bivy bag, not both, and that is determined by weight, elbow room needs/wants and personal preference.

Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
 
i just typed a whole page and messed it up;)

again though, i wont even try to argue why , you know a heck of alot more about loft, dead air, etc....... than me.

and not bringing back the using in conjunction with a tent.

if the question is simply will you be warmer sleeping with you sleeping bag inside a bivy sack vs. not haveing a bivy sack the answer is absolutly yes. would you agree?

it might be because your elemanating elements, wind chill mainly i suppose, but if you use one alot, it wont take you to long to find that out.
 

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