buying mules

S

scottr

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I have decided that I would like to get a couple of mules for pack trips into the Gila Wilderness (hopefully for elk hunting if I can get lucky and draw for once). I was hoping that guys and gals with experience might have some advice on what to look for in a mule and what gear works great. I want a pack/ride mule.

Thanks in advance.

Scott
 
Get ready to spend some big time dollars for a mule! Good Gawd I have been looking at them for over 2 months and the prices out there just floor me. I had no idea that a Mule of all things would cost more than a good pack horse,not to mention your feed, shoeing and the vet bills people keep telling me about. We had work horses when I was a kid and I only remember one time a vet had to come out for any of our horses. Now some owners/friends I have are telling me a vet see?s their horse/mules at least twice a year and for things like they think is has a cold. I hope you have better luck than I have Scott. I think I will just keep on being my own pack Mule.

GBA
 
Draw the tag.......then hire a packer.

Go hunting without a care. Have the packer pack your stuff in and out.

Go home and forget that you EVER even considered actually buying anything that eats, craps, bleeds, bites, kicks, farts, needs shoes, medical care, housing and will run 5 miles away, from a rogue titmouse on occasion......scattering all your chit from here to Gumbyland!........(sounds like my ex wife.)

Been there, done that, bled all over the T-shirt....and I grew up with the things!

Hell, you might just as well have several more kids, at least they are tax deductable.

It's sort of like keeping a girlfriend on the sly. It is WAY cheaper to rent one as often as you need her.
 
nick
the problem with using packers is that they cost a lot of $$$. Basically, $1,000 for an elk hunt doing just a drop camp and $75 per day for rental. That gets out of hand when you want to hunt elk deer and turkey, then if you want to do some summer fly fishing or simple wilderness camping.

My family has some land in chama for summer and a place in ABQ for boarding. My mother and sister-in-law have about 5 horses, that are not trail worthy (worthless in my opinion).

Of course, they could be similar to boats; the two happiest days in a boat owners life are the day they buy and the day they sell.

Since I've only been looking for a short while I can't say the prices are out of hand...seems $2k to $3k is what a good mule goes for.

Scott
 
Nickman is right... and whatever money you spend hiring someone to pack you in and out will seem like a very SMALL expense after a couple of years owning some mules or horses. :)

You will pay more money just for the trailer to haul them around than you'll pay a guy to do your packing. Not to mention the hospital bills you'll rack up when the mule tries to kill you.

I wouldn't worry about paying a guy $1,000 bucks to haul your stuff in and out. Hell, I paid $1,500 bucks for the saddle I ride.
$5,800 for the trailer, a helluva lot more than that for the truck to pull it all. Pack saddle will take a paycheck, it just goes on and on amigo.

If you want to buy some animals, go for it. A fair mule is $2 or $3K... a GOOD one will be more like $5,000.

But don't buy mules or horses for some elk hunts, wrong reason dude. Elk hunting happens over a few weeks in the fall.

Horses and Mules aren't pets or hunting tools... they are a LIFESTYLE!! 24-7, 365 days a year... not just for a few weeks in the fall.

So if you are ready to change your Lifestyle, that's one thing, all my best and enjoy. I do. But you don't buy those animals for elk hunting. It's a new lifestyle!! (A good one I think, well most days.) LOL
 
I've had a few mules and several more horses and they are expensive to own, but if you want them, then get them.

What I look for in a horse or a mule is an animal that is calm and rideable by anyone and everyone. I don't want an animal that has to have an "experienced rider". That means they do $hit you don't want to deal with.

Get one that will load in a trailer without any fuss. It sucks to have to spend an hour loading an animal that doesn't want to get in and go. My last two horses would load and unload by themselves if the gate was open. They would calmly step in and move to the front and wait for you to close the gate. Then at unload they would back out and stand there waiting for you to take them. I'd make sure they would load before I bought them. Load them and unload them several times and try them out before you commit.

There are lots of other things I'd look for but these two are on my short list when it comes to hunting animals.

They must pack meat, hides, and antlers with no b.s. I would make the guy you are buying them from prove that they will stand there and let you load all that stuff on them before I'd buy them. I own a taxidermy shop and I will take them to the shop and put all sorts of dead animals on them before I'll take them home for keeps. If they snort, buck, bite, kick, or run like hell, you keep looking! There are lots of animals for sale that will do the job. Don't buy one with problems you will have to fix. Especially if you're not a horse or mule trainer.

Last but not least, I take them on a ride up a trail somewhere new to them and make sure they don't spook or shy at the site of "ghost stumps" and scary imaginable things off the side of the trail. I go to lots of new places in the mountains far away from home and I don't need any crap happening on the trail, especially when I'm riding after dark. If the horse or mule jumps out from under you at the imaginary sight of a dark object off the trail, don't waste your money.


I know these habits and traits can all be fixed by a competent mule trainer, but........I'm not one, and it don't sound like you are either so buy the best so you don't have problems. It's worth it to check them out thoroughly. More expensive is not always better either. If they'll do all the things you want them to, and they cost $1,500 then you got lucky. My last two good ones, and I mean they were good ones, cost $1,000 each. The guy was tired of feeding them and wanted to get rid of them. They pack, ride, load, haul meat, stand there while you shoot,(not off there back either) and my kids can ride them both. When I say the haul meat, I mean they haul meat from elk, deer, lions, bears, buffaloes, and any other kind you care to put on their back.

Hope this helps. I"m sure the real cowboys on here will set you straight, or rather the mule skinners will, but this will get you started.

DeerBeDead
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-09 AT 11:02AM (MST)[p]I agree if you think renting them is expensive wait until you own a couple. The piece of mind of not having to spend all night looking for a spooked animal during your hunt=priceless. Not to mention the 1,001 other things that always go wrong.

The best mules to have are the ones your buddy owns.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-09 AT 11:37AM (MST)[p]It is hard to beat a good mule, but the simple problem with mules is finding a good one. Finding a good mule is much harder than finding a good horse. Mules are a way of life. You have to use them, you have to get comfortable around them. You can't use your regular horse tack (saddles, halters, bridles) on them because 90% of the time the tack won't fit properly. I went through my mule phase, just sold my last mule saddle 3 months ago. They were a great, fun ride most of the time, but the little time they were not fun was when they were down right scary.

A few words of caution with mules --- They never forget. You treat him bad and one day he will get his pay back. It may not be today or tommorrow, but he will get back at you. ---While they may like you, they may not like your hunting partner or your wife or your kids. My friend's young son was kicked by a mule he had for over 12 years. Hospitals are never fun. --- The guy you might be getting your mule from may have had a bad experience with the mule, which may transferr to you. ---

A quote from another friend of mine about one of his mules "The first time he kicked me I thought I was OK, but then he kicked me again."

Best of luck with the search.

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www.sagebasin.com
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Also make sure you can pick up all four feet, pick them out, hammer on them and drive a nail. I have a horse I bought that will let you do anything you want with his feet. Until you pick up a nail that is. When I grab a nail, he looks at me and the fight begins. If he wasn't a very old and a great kids horse I would have worked with him and changed the problem. But I decided that at his age it isn't worth it to retrain one bad habit. I just sedate him for shoeing.
Make sure you can bridle him.
Make sure you can walk out into his pen and catch him. Without treats!
Trailoring has already been mentioned.
Make sure you can brush him, play with his ears, tail and mouth.
Make sure when you ride him that he is ok with leg pressure. Some people don't ride thier animals with leg cues and the horse/mule will get nervous when you squeeze them with your legs.
Make sure he is ok with a swinging rope, plastic bags, flags etc., etc., etc.
Make sure you can get in the saddle without him moving an inch.
Make sure he does not want to lead the pack all the time on a trail ride but can be ridden any where in the string with out being aggressive towards other horses/mules.
If any of this sounds new or foreign then I highly suggest learning before you buy. Go to a riding class, packing class or better yet, meet someone who trains horses/mules and spend a lot of time with them. Buy videos and books. Learn as much as you can because your life may depend on it. Like mentioned above, they are a lifestyle, not a pet or hobby.
Goodluck and if you need any advice or pointers feel free to PM me. fatrooster.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-09 AT 11:49AM (MST)[p]A mule will serve you faihfully it's whole life for that one opportunity to kick your head off.
 
"Also make sure you can pick up all four feet"---- Uhhh, make sure the owner of the mule picks up all 4 feet first. Then ask him to have his wife pick up all four feet. Then ask him to have his kid pick up all 4 feet. Then you might consider trying it yourself. Just saying......

It reminds me of the farrier who showed up to trim a friend's mule. He didn't get very far with picking up the first hind, as the mule kicked him along the side of his head, removing a few chunks of flesh, including part of one ear. Great mule though.

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www.sagebasin.com
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Scottr.......sorry.

You clearly stated you had decided to buy a couple of mules and were asking for positive advice on what to look for.

I provided reasons not to buy them, which was not what you asked for.

I would make a list of what you expect from a working mule and stick to it when discussing the animal with the seller.

As stated by others, training or retraining a bad habit is a job for a competant trainer and if you make a mistake or lose your temper, you may never repair the damage.

I have had good ones and bad ones, but a bad mule is an experience you will not want to repeat.

The good thing about owning one yourself, is when it kicks you or bites you....and smiles, you can shoot it on the spot and nobody will ask you to pay for it.
 
nick
your feedback was gladly accepted...i need to hear the good, the bad, and the ugly of owning mules. I just have to decide if they would be an appropriate addition to the family.

Scott
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-09 AT 12:44PM (MST)[p]Horses are my wifes passion...I love elk hunting...we started with a horse, and then "one for me" now we have 7...just got done buying a ten stall horse barn, after building her a 6 stall barn with loft two years ago...

if you think ANYTHING is as expensive as horses your wrong (boats have NOTHING on owning horses)...it is a MERE drop in the pan...Just ONE vet bill would cover the cost of all your trips you mentioned even the summer fishing trips...

Just got done buying a new Duramax Truck (Min. $6k more than what I would normally need)...have a 3 place goosneck horse trailer ($14,000) which is not big enough, if you want to take a buddy and have one pack animal each...then all the tack, and scabbards, and hi-lines, and/or hobbles etc. etc. etc.

Just bought waterers, so that she doesnt have to go out in cold and do it in winter...$400/waterer...


that being said...I love packing in the backcountry, and the image of seeing the antlers on the back of a horse riding out of the back country...is worth it...

but as others have said, it is a lifestyle...you cant just buy them board them and have them behave perfectly as you want...I went through the cycle of buying and selling several horses before I finally got THE one that was perfect for me...I spent WAY more trying to get by cheaply, than just buying a perfectly trained one...it will save you WAY more in headaches and pain to buy one finished than one you have to work through the issues with!!!

NO horse or mule is worth the pain/misery/agony of a back country emergency/tragedy/catastrophe!!!
 
Well said Dream!


Sit tall in the saddle, hold your head up high, keep your eyes fixed to where the trail meets the sky...
 
Deerbedead had great advise on picking a mule. My mules pack like machines and ride great. I use my big mule to ride in and pack out. Only time i ride the horse is when the mules packing. I have noticed no greater vet fees then the horses, but the mules can get attitudes. Mules live a long time so you might try and find a broke and broken in 10-15 year old that somebody is looking to get rid of. At 15 you likely have a solid 10 years of packing with them. My oldest mule is 32 and you would never guess it. Packs like a machine. i dont have much to add on picking one out other then deerbedead hit it on the head. I'll take a mule over a horse any day


"blaming guns for violence is like blaming spoons for Rosie O'donnell being fat."
 
There are some good mule auctions.I'd reccomend you look at going to Rocky Mountain Mule days in Montrose CO, Bishop mule days in Ca, or Jake Clark mule days in WY. These auctions have a strong sift? That means they don't take any old mule. All mules must be medically sound (pass a medical exam) and must be able to preform all major tasks like backing, reining, stopping, standing still while you mount, and many other tasks. Pull out your check book though, cuz an average mule will go for 5-6K with the top selling mules going for 15K.Most the mules that sell for that price have lots of chrome and are likely not any better of a trail mule than the one's that sell for 6K. A lot of guys will buy a mule for a grand, and think they got a good deal till they get bucked off on their head and end up with 5K in medical bills. Guess they could have afforded a 6K mule after all.....and without all the pain. There is also a website called the mule store and they have a mule classifieds. There are some good mules on that site and if a guy is patient you might could pick up a great mule for 4-5K. Good luck and remember, you get what you pay for.

Mike
 
So you mule guys, whats the big draw? Where's the benefit of having a good mule over a good horse?

More expensive animal
More expensive tack
Reputation of attitude

So please tell me whats the incentive?
 
They pack much more than a horse and will go places you would never dream of taking a horse and can go much longer. The army did testing on horses vs. mules eons ago and mules are unbelievably better at those things. Of course you take the good with the bad.
 
A lot of good advise. Here is my take on some of it. Get around some mule people and skip the guy in the classifieds, he is trying real hard to get rid of a mule he bought in the classifieds. Chrome will get you killed! Forget the color and look for flaws in both the Mule and the guy selling it. "Just don't have time" tells alot about what that mule has been used to. He wants to eat and be left alone.
Mules, just like everything else can and are pricey if you want a good one. Try and see what the guys find good about their mules and watch for one to need some money and buy one that wasn't for sale, if that makes sense. I have been there and carried buddies to the ER after a mule rodeo. Mules are much more comical and bond real well with a fella. One last point...Molly, not a John.
 
everyone thanks for all of the input. This has really helped me put my hands around many of the different aspects of selecting, buying, and owning mules.
 
I had a mule given(they couldn't afford the feed) to me this summer he a pretty good mule just don't like to be shoed, he packs and he rides even neckreins,

If your looking for a good mule start out with that is already broke for packing and riding the more trips you take into the mountain you make, the better your mule will turn out. I do a pack in on one then switch for the packout and ride out on the other mule works pretty good and they both get a workout both ways riding and packing.

Now is the time to be looking for a mule or horse alot people don't like the cost of feeding them thru the winter so if you don't mind that you can find a few here and there.

Check www.ksl.com classifieds under horses, Craiglist ID,Wyo,Montana,UT Colo.

Sometime you find a outfitter sell everything in one bunch,mule, packsaddle,panyards,halters,hobbles,ect.
Me I like doing my own thing hunting the BackCountry with horses and mules, the wrecks are just a part of the hunting just like flat tires and blown tranny's. My farrier is a mule guy has about 15 of them, he taught me alot about them. Good luck hope you find a good one or 2
Good Luck hope you find a good one.


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
I have to agree with Draftstud, ignore the Classifieds. My buddy must have looked at 100 horses for sale on KSL.COM and everyone of them was a total piece of ****. NOTHING like the Ad said they were, people just peddling junk.

He finally put the word out in some horse circles and a kid called him one day in a bind, had a horse for sale. He bought it and it's a dandy. I wouldn't go near any of those boards if I was buying a mule.

Just remember mules are not just horses with long ears and harder feet. They are a totally different animal and have to be dealt with differently.

Best advice I ever heard was "Mules are not for everybody." The old saying is true, nothing better than a good mule, but nothing worse than a bad one!! I've seen them do things that left my jaw hanging open, in a WOW good way. And seen them do things, that if they were mine I'd have shot them on the spot and left them for coyote food.

Don't think I'd suggest starting out in mules if it were me. I'd start with some horses for a few years, make sure it's the lifestyle you want and then ease into mules.

Parking your 4 Wheeler and buying a couple of mules... not sure about that one amigo. ;-) Maybe start with a couple of old bomb proof horses and work into some mules. But some pretty good advice on this thread!!
 
mule-hummer h1 with winch at both ends
horse- chevy tahoe
mule-eats less,lives longer, does not need shoes 90% of the time
mule- a bad one will cripple or kill you, sour one may just break a few bones
mule- stamina and ability to pack them day after day much greater than a horse, read up on military studies
mule- different mindset than a horse, learn it
never buy one from a classified ad, never
I have been riding one since 1980, would never go back to horses, i chase hounds in the books lot of ledges
mules need saddles with mule bars, etc, etc
find a good mule man and deal with him.
A good horse is a hell of a lot easier to find, usually cheaper and they can do 80% of what mule can do anyway.
If you do get a good mule it is an addiction, hard to get away from.
mulehound
 
I presently have a TWH bred to a Gaited Mammoth Jack. Can't wait to see what happens 3 years from now. John
 
Hounddawg, you hit the nail on the head. Good horses are a lot easier to find than good mules. I had the idea to get mules years ago, and after the first few I went through I thought I'd never own another one.

I went through a couple more horses and finally found two of them that will do everything I want to do and more. I think if I were getting into the riding packing scene I would recommend horses to start with. Mules are not for me. I tried to load a mt lion on one of my mules that I bought from a lion hunter that told me it would pack lions all day long. The mule nearly killed me and itself before I could get the lion out of there. That mule would never let me touch it again. EVER! It would try to kick me in the head if I even came near it. I traded it to a mule guy and he rode the heck out of it. Mules never forget.

Unless you are very experienced in all aspects of horsemanship, mule skinning and the works, I'd have to say go with horses. I had to, and they work great for me. Just be sure they will do all you want them to do before you buy them. Any good honest guy selling a horse will let you take it for a few days and try it out before you buy it. I tried mine out for a month before I bought. If you don't just love them, or if you don't just think they are perfect for you, then don't feel like you have to buy it. Tell the guy it aint working and you need a different one.

DeerBeDead
 
Mules are for ONLY VERY experienced riders. Most people would crap at where a horse can take you....a good mule can take you even further. If your a newby I wouldn't get a mule. They have totally different personalities than horses. You can kick a horse in the butt and get away with it....you kick a mule in the butt.....you just thought you got away with it ;)
 
I am agreeing with most of the posts. The good is true and the bad is true. However, I believe the most important advice is you must be a mule person. There is a reason every horse owner is considered a horseman but few are considered muleskinners.

If you are buying your first mule buy an aged mule from a guy who has plenty of mules and isn't looking to sell any of them. Then you will have a mule to start with. Of course the mule will more than likely cost more than a good used truck.

Not to steer you in a different direction but think about a draft cross horse. If your primary interest is in back country use, a solid draft cross may be your best bet until you get some experience. The draft cross will be as sturdy as a mule, will eat more and not travel as efficeintly but most make a reliable hearty back country mount. If it is a mare you have a great start for a mule, breed her to a donkey. One of the quickest ways to learn the difference between a mule and a horse is to raise one. For the first six months you wil wonder if the mule will ever trust or bond with you and then the next six months the relationship should become like a dog. The caution is teaching the mule respect, ground manners and trust.
 
Hey Scott,

The fact that Mulehound said he's been riding nothing but a mule since 1980 is reason enough right there for you not to get a mule!!

If Mulehound is doing it, you better go the opposite direction. LOL
 
I like the idea of draft horse is great. I was thinking of adding one of them after the mules. Maybe, I will start with the draft horses and add mules later.

Anyone know a good source for a draft horse that is trained for trail (brush) and packing?

Scott
 
A lot of hobbies can be expensive. I own horses and my unlces has 11 mules. We use them every year to pack when we can. Each has their ups and downs. Folk on here are right...its expensive and if you can afford to do it, go for it! We lease out our property and barn and can't believe what people pay to board their animals. If we didnt have property, I wouldnt own stock.

I remember the last mule my uncle bought. The kid of the owner came out, grabbed the mules tale and swung around on it screaming yee haw! The mule just stood there. My kid did the same after and the same thing...it just stood there. They were crawling all over that mule and it was like the kids weren't even there! "A great horse of mule is hard to find" If the people that are selling are willing to give a 30 day money back guarantee then I would buy it.

muleyman
 
look into adopting a mustang. They are great mountain horses and require less feed and water.


"blaming guns for violence is like blaming spoons for Rosie O'donnell being fat."
 
Scott- Mulepacker has brought up a great point in Draft blood. But, as he said, you want a half-draft, not a full-draft. A half-draft, (cross between a draft breed and a standard breed horse), is usually much better rounded for mountian use than a full-blood draft. I had a great old half-draft gelding that could go all day. We also bred mares to a Shire stud. Great cross, with a Shire. Don't have now, but there are a few floating around out there. You'll have about the same problem finding a half-draft, but it should be a touch easier and a little less expensive.

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www.sagebasin.com
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Mulepacker...thanks for the advice...I really like the warrenty issue.

everyone else thanks for all of the advice and feedback...I really do appreciate it. i believe you all saved me some pretty large headaches.

scott
 
Man, some very good advice on here. My first real mountain horse was 1/2 draft. A real beast. I abused that horse some out of ignorance and he still never let me down. I rode him into 3 wrecks that were all my fault like riding through a barbed wire fence on a moonless night. And he served me well everytime I asked after that. A mule wouldn't have allowed that.e didn't even blink. And he'd never packed meat before.

IMO follow the advice of startin with horses, graduating to mules.

Only thing I didn't see much of on here was the time factor. I live at 4,500 feet and hunt at 10,000. I ride 3-5 nights a week to condition the horses and this starts in June, gettin ready for Sept-Oct. That isn't just physical conditioning, it's so they are bomb proof by huntin season.

I spent 34 days on the road this fall (WY/NM/NV) Just me and three horses. The mustang was dificult to load when I left. Now?? Just get out of his way when he jumps in the trailer. That's how you get horses that are relible IMO. Use em.

But the satisfaction of having your own horses, huntin areas you never dreamed of, ridin in and leading your elk out. If that gets you going, all the work leading up to it is well worth it. Truly I got horses in 99 just to hunt off of. I've learned it is a lifestyle. And I get satisfaction out of every bad habit I break out of each one. Each is a learnin experience for me and makes me a lil more confident.

I'm ramblin but I agree with all of the info you got.

GOOD LUCK!!!!!!
 
Cali,
can you point me to some half draft horses? I found a few on equinenow.com but like people say "pay now or pay later" I would rather start off with a quality horse that I can learn with.

Scott
 
Sorry. I happened onto mine by chance. Friend needed $$$$ and I bought both his. Gave him the mare back 5 years later.

Find one close, ride it and if you think you have a good one, ask if you can keep it a week or so. Call the farrier out and get him shoed. Spend time every day messin with him. Saddling him. Puttin the bit in. Riding.

Or do what I've done too often. Buy the horse and spend lots of time gettin rid of bad habits. Or finding out the horse is fine UNTIL it's starts beating the crap outta the other horses.

The draft draft/crosses I've been around have been very mellow. Including one a friend rented in Colorado a few years ago. I asked to buy it but they said "NO!" Plus not sure it would have fit in my trailer.

Good luck.
 
it's called riding and not walking. LOL


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
Plus not sure
>it would have fit in
>my trailer.
>
>Good luck.


All kinds of stuff to learn...the draft combos, can be bigger, and thus might need specialized gear depending upon the particular animal...i.e. different saddle, tack, trailers, etc. etc.

IMHO (In My Humble Opinion) a 15.0-15.2H horse, is perfect for the hills, anything taller, and it is too tall...anything shorter, and well, they cant (generally) handle the packs and loads as well...(mules dont follow this)

I would personally suggest going to some really good, high quality sales, and pick up a really nice horse...if you prefer draft crosses, or whatever go try a few...horse people LOVE telling and showing...and if your paying some good money ($3k+) any horse owner will take you out on a trail ride to show you how perfect their critter is...

My last horse (he is perfect now :)) was taken for 30 days before we would commit to buying him...was a WISE decision, but even then, I sent him to a John Lyons certified trainer, which was also the best money I spent on that horse!!

MTdream

few pics from trips...

IMG_1946.jpg


jamesandstarMedium.jpg
 
Scott
I have 6 mules right now all of them are older. The pack mules we bought out of Yosemite park for 100 a piece. They are dead broke. My sadle mule is out of a dude string and is also dead broke. I do not want any excitement to happen on an elk hunt other than killing an elk. They are great but if I did not have a friend with acreage to keep them on I would not own them.
 

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