Corner hoping sections?

wisconsinfarmer · Dec 16, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-12 AT 09:18PM (MST)[p]I've heard that corner hooping from section to section is legal and just looking for a little more in site on this. I have a gps with a chip so a guy should be able to get right to the corners on the checker boarded stuff.

elks96 · Dec 16, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-12 AT 11:02PM (MST)[p]Nope not legal... It is tresspassing...

http://billingsgazette.com/news/sta...cle_0848ffe6-200c-11e1-8b59-001871e3ce6c.html

Read the article is goes into detail. The one case where it was thrown out was due to the courts ruling at a lower level in which the court decided that while it was still trespassing it was not the charge associated with hunting and trespassing(wildlife crime)...

TOPGUN · Dec 16, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Dec-17-12 AT 07:06AM (MST)[p]It varies at the state level. For example, the case in Wyoming was dismissed, in part, because there is no statute that says that it is or isn't a violation. From what I understand, the G&F has told their Wardens to refer any of these type complaints by landowners to the County Sheriff and not to proceed with an investigation on their part. The Warden out there that I've known for years now has a State issued Garmin GPS with a landownership chip in it, as do all of his compadres. They are using them to determine trespassing violations where a person has allegedly crossed an unmarked boundary line and gone onto private property whether to hunt the private property or just to gain access to public land. However, the corner jumping issue we are discussing here is still not being looked at if that's determined how a person got onto public land that in the past has been considered "landlocked". The new Garmin and chip I used out there this year was accurate within ten feet or less of many corner pins/posts and section line pins that I found on actual surveyed pieces of property where markers were visible.

dang302 · Dec 17, 2012

Not that this helps, but I was told at Game and Fish (in New Mexico): "our lawyers tell us it is legal"

So...it must be a state to state issue.

elks96 · Dec 17, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Dec-17-12 AT 06:28PM (MST)[p]How can it be legal... I am not sure that you can cross exactly on the specific point without violating the space on the private land. How big is the corner? By legal terms it gets pretty small.

I would not even bother with it, even with my gps and all. With out a marked survey marker at the corner you have no real idea. 10 feet on private is still on private. And good to with in 10 feet... That is a radius of error... So PIx10 is nearly a 30 foot margin or error...

BuzzH · Dec 17, 2012

If theres no pin, it would be equally as difficult to prove that someone trespassed at a corner.

Innocent until PROVEN guilty. The burden of proof would be on the prosecutor.

TOPGUN · Dec 17, 2012

elks96---My comment regarding 10 feet was to show that even the $153 Garmin I had with the chip was so close that I could find those corners that were marked. If the corner wasn't marked I probably wouldn;t try and guess based on the GPS. I see no reason if those corners are marked why you shouldn't step across because this air space deal that you are invading that they talk about is a bunch of BS IMHO! The only reason the landowners may not want to mark their property lines/corners is to make it harder for a person to access the public land at that corner just like BuzzH has always said and he's also right on the button in his comments in his last post.

Liontamer · Dec 17, 2012

In Wyoming, corner crossing is legal under the game and fish trespass law, but likely not under the criminal trespass law.....

TOPGUN · Dec 18, 2012

Liontamer---That really isn't the case because there is nothing definitive regarding corner jumping. They have just decided if they get complaints like that to refer them to County officials and not pursue it. That may be because they hope that people can find a place to hunt and keep buying licenses or that higher ups feel it should be legal, but can't change the law because that's up to the Legislature. So far any Bill concerning it that has gone in the hopper hasn't come out.

Liontamer · Dec 18, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-12 AT 01:31PM (MST)[p]Corner crossing for hunting purposes does not meet the requirements for the G&F trespass statute. Ask any game warden, as there is an attorney generals opinion on the issue that has been provided to the WGFD. As far as meeting the requirements for criminal trespass.....I'm not really sure.

alaska_bou · Dec 18, 2012

It is NOT illegal in CERTAIN Wyoming counties. I verified this with both G&F and several county attorneys before "hopping." All agencies said this is a "grey area" and although not technically legal is is NO LONGER PROSECUTED BY THE G&F OR THE SHERIFF DEPT. I have used this practice to take a few animals in the past when private landowners try to shut off access to public lands and I will continue to do so in the future.

TOPGUN · Dec 18, 2012

As Bou and I have stated, it varies state to state and even in the different counties in Wyoming. One county may have a Prosecutor who is beholding to a certain rancher and would try to prosecute a corner hopping complaint if a ticket was issued by the Sheriff department and a person appealed the ticket, which is your right, while another would not touch it. I would suggest everyone do exactly as Bou stated he did and contact the County Prosecutor and Sheriff in the County where you want to do it and see what they say for their particular jurisdiction. If they says don't do it, I wouldn't test them to see if they mean business. The Sheriff works close enough with the Prosecutor to know whether he would back them if they wrote a ticket on it.

wisconsinfarmer · Dec 18, 2012

Well thanks for the replies and I just need to make a few phone calls.

tracker12 · Dec 21, 2012

"Wharff, of the sportsmen group, said he would support future legislation to allow corner hopping but thinks it's better to work with private landowners to arrange public access to large blocks of state land"

This is the way it should be. Drives me crazy that we have so much public land tied up for the public then access for there own use by landowners.

ICMDEER · Dec 21, 2012

Just FYI. I checked with the Carbon County folks - wardens and sheriff. The wardens won't enforce corner jumping as has been stated, but the sheriff will prosecute to the fullest extent possible and you will be cited for corner jumping there. You might be able to beat it, but it will be a costly adventure.

BuzzH · Dec 21, 2012

Another FYI, just because a sheriff cites you for something doesnt mean the County Prosecuter will pursue it.

Thats who I'd be contacting...

TOPGUN · Dec 21, 2012

That's exactly what I mentioned before, but if the Sheriff is citing people he more than likely knows he has the backing of the Prosecutor there if it were to go to court. When I had problems with the Sheriff wanting to issue a ticket to us for allegedly trespassing several years ago, not for corner jumping, but for hunting on easily accessible BLM land that the rancher alleged was his deeded land, I went straight to see the Prosecutor in Worland and he said his office wouldn't prosecute where there were no surveys of the property or boundary markers, since it was just the word of the rancher. That really sort of goes against the law in Wyoming that says they don't have to post private property, but I sure was happy he was using a little common sense, instead of just taking the word of somebody who alleges something and can't prove it.