Deer Herd Health

[BPKHunter]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-17-11 AT 10:51AM (MST)[p]How about a survey of your opinion of the Key Factors that effect the health of our Mule Deer herds. Let's keep the answers short and too the point if possible.

 

[BPKHunter]

I'll go first:

In order of importance,

1. Weather

2. Fawn condition going into winter

3. Predation

 

[Muleys24Seven]

1. Winter weather- particularly in March
2. Health going into the winter and feed quality
3. Hunting pressure

 

[destroyer350]

Winter, weather- HUGE impact!!!!

Habitat- especially winter range!!!

Hunting pressure- When numbers are down

 

[matt4695]

Winter's

PREDATOR's

Habitat

 

[Moosey69]

Habitat (winter range especially)

Predators (human hunters and yotes, wolves, mnt. lions etc..)

Winters

The F&G has some control on the first 2 and could help out our deer by improving winter range, fighting against critical habitat loss to human encrochment and do a better job managing us and the other "Predators" (I can only kill so many coyotes myself) in my opinion.

 

[beavis14]

a friend of mine had a good idea regarding the predators. every tail we bring in to the f & g we would get " f & g bucks " and you could use these bucks to buy tags , super hunt entries ect...

 

[BPKHunter]

>a friend of mine had a
>good idea regarding the predators.
>every tail we bring in
>to the f & g
>we would get " f
>& g bucks " and
>you could use these bucks
>to buy tags , super
>hunt entries ect...


Beavis,

Which factors do you think are most important. The feedback has been good and I'd love to hear everyone's opinion. I intend to take the info to our area biologist so I would like as many opinions as possible.

 

[beavis14]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-18-11 AT 10:59AM (MST)[p] winters---------cant predict this

conserving habitat------- replanting bitterbrush ect.keeping people out of wintering grounds

sensable use of resource-------not just selling tags for financial purposes

and sorry for hijacking the thread !

 

[brymoore]

1. Weather

2. Poaching (Oregon did a recent study and found that the amount of deer poached each year equaled those taken legally. http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...w_ssurprising_rate_of_mule_deer_poaching.html )

3. Predators

 

[kurtski25]

1. Habitat. If the deer elk have great habitat they can probably make it through almost the worst winter.
2. Habitat. If they have the proper alignment of hiding cover, food and water and the animal is healthy they can then escape predators...four-legged and two-legged.
3. Habitat. Grow of antlers depends on age, good genetics and proper nutrition or ...good habitat.
Kurtski25

 

[Moosey69]

>1. Habitat. If the deer
>elk have great habitat they
>can probably make it through
>almost the worst winter.
>2. Habitat. If they have
>the proper alignment of hiding
>cover, food and water and
>the animal is healthy they
>can then escape predators...four-legged and
>two-legged.
>3. Habitat. Grow of antlers
>depends on age, good genetics
>and proper nutrition or ...good
>habitat.
>Kurtski25


You hit on some of the reasons I have it as my first choice and winter as my last.

 

[208JBB]

1) Habitat, any of the weeds seem to taste like candy to the deer, but they dont get much nutients from the weeds.

2)Pressure, from 2 legged and 4 legged preditors

3) winter

 

[idhunters]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-20-11 AT 09:53PM (MST)[p]I think that one of the biggest factors is the lack of mature breeding bucks in sufficient numbers to breed the does in a TIMELY MANNER.

Does need to be bred as early in their first cycle as possible and they need to be bred within a short time frame.

When the fawns are born early they have a chance to put on that exta 4 or 5 pounds that it takes to make it thru the winter. When all the does on the mtn drop their fawns at the same time it helps overwhelm the predators and lessens predation.

I think weather plays a factor but we can't control that.

Habitat is an issue, and I think the CRP acres coming out and being converted to either winter wheat production or to the SAFE program will help-stagnant CRP is NOT habitat and the deer key on winter wheat.

Last November I sat on a hill in SE Idaho and watch 110 head of deer in a small valley. Out of the 110 deer there was 1 buck, a 3x4. I couldn't even pick out a forked horn. The deer are there, the bucks are not. How is 1 mature buck going to breed all those does the first cycle?

 

[matt4695]

Agree with moosey69, I can only kill so many coyotes myself also. These little mutts are brutal on Deer & Pronghorn fawns. I know everybody wants F&G to come up with some magical solution to this problem. What it sounds like to me is that most people on this forum want F&G to close Deer season or put extreme limits on tags. Would everyone on here be happy with hunting once every 5 years. If so, it sounds like Utah is the place to be. I know i'm on the other side of the fence than most people on this forum. I think F&G does a pretty good job with the game herds. I think poaching is a bigger problem than what people think. In unit 39 I watch the deer herds often. The big bucks will actually hang pretty high while all of the does are on the winter range. When the bucks come down they will stay 1 or 2 ridges back from access points or roads to where most people watching deer see the does and small bucks. We all want to harvest mature deer everyear or every few years, there still here. I realize that Idaho has the gentics and habitat to produce world class mule deer. Head out, shoot a coyote,you might of just saved your next trophy buck.

 

[destroyer350]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-21-11 AT 10:50AM (MST)[p]Several friends and I spend all winter along with the Gov. trapper doing our part with the local coyote numbers to the tune of several hundred per winter, not including those taken care of the rest of the year! I don't think I've read where anybody is looking for anything "magical" but a little more realistic. Having seasons that let 1 person archery hunt, rifle hunt and muzzleloader hunt for 4 months doesn't seem to me to be very realistic when GENERAL deer numbers are low due to winter kill, predators or over hunting in "certain areas". I don't believe I'm worried just about quality. Where would a pick your weapon regulation say you would only get to hunt every 5 yrs? Seems to me 30 days with a bow or at least 2 wks with a rifle or at least that if not more with a MLoader should be enough!

There should be ways to limit ourselves when situations call for it. Are we really helping deer numbers in units that get hammered for one reason or another with an OTC tag for 4 months and then pile late hunts on top of that? I would question good manage, I would say public pressure!!!!!

 

[matt4695]

I guess if I hunted or lived on the Southeast side of Idaho I might feel the same as the rest of you guys. I used to hunt deer in Central Idaho(still do a couples days out of the season) and got tired of low deer numbers and small bucks. But it was not from hunting pressure, it was the habitat that caused the small racks and low deer numbers. I've shot some 5 1/2-8 1/2 year old deer that are pushing to make the 150 inch mark. The habitat has been the same for 100's of years. I moved to a unit closer to home and its awesome hunting. It's great to read everybody's opinions.

 

[BPKHunter]

I am still hoping to hear from more guys on here about the specific factors that they believe most effect the deer population here in Idaho.

So far those mentioned include Weather, Habitat Quality, Predators, Poaching, Maturity of Breeding Bucks, etc. Please still chime in with yours, preferably with some order of importance.

Why do I care, because I realize as I get older not everyone thinks like me and it is a good thing to see what others think, especially if a majority of others think it.

Again, please keep responding.

 

[huntfish714]

disease control weather predation habitat

 

[idhunters]

Well for what its worth I spent 5 days hunting in November in SE Idaho, in an area that I have hunted my whole life. I was on the roads, off the roads, glassing, walking, tracking in fresh snow almost daily, etc.

During the course of the hunt I saw 3 mature bucks. I saw 2 of them multiple days, and killed one of them. I almost felt guilty after I shot him. I know I didn't see all the bucks in the area, but the buck:doe ratio is nowhere near what F&G claim. I saw very few young bucks, but I saw lots of deer, close to a hundred on different days in a couple different spots. I also hunted many areas where the deer had moved out. There were a couple sets of buck tracks in there but again, very few. This is mid November, with snow, public and private and literally no pressure.

I don't think there is a magic bullet. I think that many factors are impacting the herds. Today I drove out by Inkom and saw a bunch of road kills. A landowner I know said the last deer hit was a big mature buck. Nice to see a bunch of 10 foot tall fence posts along the freeway with no wire.......

Now, we all have opinions and ideas, some may even be right! how do we implement them and actually accomplish anything?

 

[GSJ]

Habitat.(emphasis on winter range)
Weather.
Predation.

In that order.

BTW, I'd again like to say that every hunter out there has the ability/choice to manage themselves to a large degree. I'd think most veteran hunters do just that. I see absolutely no reason to kill a muley every year (I have not for several seasons now in Idaho). That said I definetely want the option to hunt them every year and I like to see young hunters/beginners have the option shoot any buck they see.



the artist formerly known as "gemstatejake".

 

[DeerMadness]

1. Habitat for winter range. Healthy types of forbes that mulies eat. (Elk compete and push mule deer out).

2. Weather

3. Predation and hunter success.

4. Poaching

 

[matt4695]

One more thing to add. I'll agree with deermadness, high elk numbers = low mule deer numbers, there's only so much feed on the winter ranges and the elk can survive longer than a mule deer and eat alot more.

 

[excaliber]

>One more thing to add.
>I'll agree with deermadness,
>high elk numbers = low
>mule deer numbers, there's only
>so much feed on the
>winter ranges and the elk
>can survive longer than a
>mule deer and eat alot
>more.
That might be true if we actually still had high elk numbers statewide unit to unit. Allowing us to chase Muleys from late August with a bow then general hunts with a rifle and then late hunts again with a bow sure isn't doing the declining deer herds any favors.

Severly Reducing tag numbers or closing units for a few years is the only thing that would work yet it's something F$G wont do. Then again they pulled a 56 and then opened it to a general hunt and ruined it.

The habitat for the most part is fine and could carry many more times the amount of deer it currently has. Sure some nice fires in some older growth areas could help too but overall habitat isn't an issue.
Too many tags is the problem.

 

[BPKHunter]

>
>The habitat for the most part
>is fine and could carry
>many more times the amount
>of deer it currently has.
>Sure some nice fires in
>some older growth areas could
>help too but overall habitat
>isn't an issue.
>Too many tags is the problem.

Not sure I agree, except for the fires part, controlled of course. The good old days likely stressed the wintering grounds, and they are under the most pressure from development.

 

[destroyer350]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-25-11 AT 09:09PM (MST)[p]I would have to agree with Matt on the elk also, everywhere I've been when the elk numbers go up deer numbers hit the dirt. That's even on intensively managed game with minimal F&G input.
Maybe even more so than predators

 

[Muleys24Seven]

Definitely agree on the elk. Especially on a bad winter where deer and elk are forced together I think it really magnifies the impact.

This year on the winter range elk were all over the place, hammering the area's that deer usually have to themselves.

 

[BPKHunter]

I believe the wolves have had a large impact on where the elk winter the past few years. They have pushed farter down, to the point that they are wintering next to the highway between Boise and Mtn Home. Fish and Game had to add a hunt for that area to control the amount of hunters. Hopefully as hunters we can do our part in pushing the wolves back into the recesses of the unit, and keep them away from the easily accessible wintering areas. Of course this assumes we will have a hunt.

Since none of us here want to eliminate the elk herd, I believe concentrating on maintaining the amount of wintering ground and improving the forage would be a large benefit.