DH program

[Elkslayer2015]

I would like to know how getting rid of the dedicated hunter program will help are deer herds?

 

[ELKOHOLIC]

Is there a proposal or are you just going off the few that rant about it on here?

 

[Elkslayer2015]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-19 AT 09:03AM (MST)[p]elkoholic hahah No there isn't a proposal I want to know what there way of thinking is.....

 

[Deerlove]

I'm a member, and 90 percent of the projects DO NOT help or benefit the mule deer?

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Deerlove I totally agree with what your saying

I'm just trying to find out how getting rid of DH can help are deer herds

 

[headshot05]

If like deer love stated that the projects don't benefit deer, then what is the point of it?
Who/what does it benefit if it does not benefit the deer herd?

 

[southernutahhunter]

Why don't we use the dedicated hunters to go get an actual count of the deer population in the units they hunt? That is the one thing that is got us in the mess we are in. No logical count.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

headshot05 Because the projects need to get done

So there is only 3228 dedicated hunters that get a tag I know some people buy some of there hours but a lot put in the time so 3228 x 32 hours per hunter just for shiz and giggles and you come up with 103,296 hours so do you have an idea on how to get the projects done if we get rid of the DH program?


another thing there are 4 season in DH program

yet the success rate was lower than the rifle hunt alone give or take a few units

so I guess I'm trying to find out how DH is hurting are deer herd and how it is supposed to help are deer herd by getting rid of it?

 

[Elkslayer2015]

southernutahhunter I would so do it I would run around and burn my own gas to count the deer herds if it would help

 

[heartshot]

By getting rid of it, each DH would free up 32 hours that could be re-vectored or volunteered to projects that actually help the deer.

It could put less pressure on the deer by having less people in the field during the hunts. Theoretically, instead of an extra 3,000 people on the archery, muzz, and rifle hunts, there would only be an extra 1,000 people on each of those hunts.

 

[hogg_65]

I'm a dedicated hunter, I have never bought any hours. I enjoy the projects I have been involved in. This is my 2nd year in this 3 year go around. I did not take a buck last year and I did not take a buck this year. I've signed up for dedicated since 2005, I have been in this position a lot, where I'm in my 2nd of 3 tags and I have not harvested a buck. I know a few guys that are dedicated tag holders and they also are selective in the bucks they harvest. I don't think getting rid of the program is a good idea at all. I would like to be allowed to do projects on the unit I hunt.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-19 AT 01:41PM (MST)[p]heartshot sorry I was wrong there are more hunters there are actually 7,779 so if you divide it up between 29 units that's only 268 tags per unit but I know all unit are different. This is 2018 stats

so I hunt south slope,bonanza vernal

DH 192 permits and 83 harvested


Archery 451 permits and 148 harvested

\
Muzzleloader 261 permits and 150 harvested


Rifle 520 permits and 344 harvested


youth 135 permits and 108 harvested



I'm sorry DH isn't the problem if a 192 permits are to much pressure on are deer herds then we have more problems than we think

This is my second year in the program and this is also my second year I turned my tag back.

 

[elkassassin]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-19 AT 03:35PM (MST)[p]Somebody on one of the other Threads Labeled Us as Poachers!

So Ya!

Get Rid of Us/DH'S & They'll Think all Problems are Solved!

GEEZUS!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[rmanwill]

Been DH for years - 4th or fifth time in the program.

I always do the projects and enjoy most of them.

Have never hunted any season but the muzzleloader season, even though I could hunt all four seasons. That's just me.

I do get to hunt most years, but bagging a buck is not the goal and I have passed bucks on numerous years and not filled tags. I don't just bag a buck, because it is my final year because I'm allowed to.

A good percentage of the DH hunters I know are in the program because they want to make a difference and be in the outdoors.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

elkassassin Yeah I seen that it was BS I think that person knows something but wont share with all of us.

 

[Bocephus]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-19 AT 04:36PM (MST)[p]No other state in the west has this type of program. Those that like it are the same that whine that everything is about money. The DH program is completely about money! I believe it was initially a good program, but folding pamphlets does not help the deer herd. It is added people in the field and stress on the herds, take them out of the equation and that helps the deer herd. Let alone people using the hunts to "scout" for their next hunt. Take the program away and I highly doubt anybody will miss the "projects" that are being done, but the DWR will miss your $$$ when you buy out your hours. That's why it will never go away, it's a money maker.

Say only half pay their service hours that would be roughly 3900 people.

$640?3900 = $2.5 million

Where's that money going? The same place the expo money is going??? For sure not back into the herd that's easy to see, and they have proven that.

The answer is simple get rid of the DH program equals less people in the field and less deer killed. I would say that's a pretty good place to start...no?

 

[elkassassin]

>LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-19
>AT 04:36?PM (MST)
>
>No other state in the west
>has this type of program.
>Those that like it are
>the same that whine that
>everything is about money. The
>DH program is completely about
>money! I believe it was
>initially a good program, but
>folding pamphlets does not help
>the deer herd. It is
>added people in the field
>and stress on the herds,
>take them out of the
>equation and that helps the
>deer herd. Let alone people
>using the hunts to "scout"
>for their next hunt. Take
>the program away and I
>highly doubt anybody will miss
>the "projects" that are being
>done, but the DWR will
>miss your $$$ when you
>buy out your hours. That's
>why it will never go
>away, it's a money maker.
>
>
>Say only half pay their service
>hours that would be roughly
>3900 people.
>
>$640?3900 = $2.5 million
>
>Where's that money going? The same
>place the expo money is
>going??? For sure not back
>into the herd that's easy
>to see, and they have
>proven that.
>
>The answer is simple get rid
>of the DH program equals
>less people in the field
>and less deer killed. I
>would say that's a pretty
>good place to start...no?

Uh No!

DH's do way less Damage than PISSCUTTER Hunters!

I'm with you on the $$$ Part,Where's that Going?

There Are 10's of Thousands PISSCUTTER Pounders that are gonna kill a Buck No matter what & Every Year they get a F'N Tag!

And I Never Folded Any F'N Paper!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[hornkiller]

Had some old Friends that delivered proclamations from payson ut to richfield ut and got all the hours signed off. that probably helped at least 3000-4000 deer survive!

Lmmfao

 

[Bocephus]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-19 AT 05:03PM (MST)[p]Well if less people in the field and less bucks killed isn't going to help our herds then I'm stumped....FACTS are simple, less deer killed and less pressure will help the herd. The deer can go without the projects, but the DWR can't go without your donation. 833 bucks may have still been roaming the hills this year if the DH program didnt exist. That's fact based.

Bess folding Benjamin Franklin in half and lining Don Peays pocket constitutes folding paper...?

 

[notdonhunting]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-19 AT 05:06PM (MST)[p]Not that I have done it or know of anyone that has done it but how do you figure folding pamphlets does not help the deer. Doesn't freeing up time of paid DWR employees allow them paid employees freedom to get other jobs done that will benefit deer and hunters alike.
I am sure that not half of the DH involved in the program payoff there hours that is an exaggerated figure. I do belive that the money that Dedicated Hunters do pay for there hours is slated for certain use.
Like I have said before we all debate/argue on this site about how to limit the take of bucks and try to figure ways to get hunters to harvest older age class of bucks but some of you guys want to eliminate a program that does just that. Pressure in one particular season is not the problem in most units it might be in a few. But pressure for too many months especially running into lat January is a problem for any unit that has any type of late hunts elk included.

 

[headshot05]

>
>Uh No!
>
>DH's do way less Damage than
>PISSCUTTER Hunters!
>
>I'm with you on the $$$
>Part,Where's that Going?
>
>There Are 10's of Thousands PISSCUTTER
>Pounders that are gonna kill
>a Buck No matter what
>& Every Year they get
>a F'N Tag!
>
>And I Never Folded Any F'N
>Paper!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!

Bessy, people don't get tags every year anymore. It's a ?limited draw? general season 9A takes like 3 points to guarantee a rifle tag. Lmfao. Biggest crock of all time. Make the whole state limited. No more general season draw. So dumb.

And like states above. If there are 3000 DH that can hunt every season. That's 3000 more per season, where as if it was 1 permit it would be 3000 split between what weapon they drew out for.

 

[elkassassin]

>
>>
>>Uh No!
>>
>>DH's do way less Damage than
>>PISSCUTTER Hunters!
>>
>>I'm with you on the $$$
>>Part,Where's that Going?
>>
>>There Are 10's of Thousands PISSCUTTER
>>Pounders that are gonna kill
>>a Buck No matter what
>>& Every Year they get
>>a F'N Tag!
>>
>>And I Never Folded Any F'N
>>Paper!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I know so many people in
>>so many places
>>They make allot of money but
>>they got sad faces
>>
>>It Ain't Easy being Me!
>
>Bessy, people don't get tags every
>year anymore. It's a ?limited
>draw? general season 9A takes
>like 3 points to guarantee
>a rifle tag. Lmfao. Biggest
>crock of all time. Make
>the whole state limited. No
>more general season draw. So
>dumb.

Hang On!

Hang On!

You're Right!

Not All TARDS Get a Tag Every Year!

But All Tags are Sold/Drawn Every Year!

AKA same amount of TARDS Hunting every year rather it be the same TARDS or Different TARDS,You Get that?




>
>And like states above. If there
>are 3000 DH that can
>hunt every season. That's 3000
>more per season, where as
>if it was 1 permit
>it would be 3000 split
>between what weapon they drew
>out for.











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[elkassassin]

>LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-19
>AT 05:03?PM (MST)
>
>Well if less people in the
>field and less bucks killed
>isn't going to help our
>herds then I'm stumped....FACTS are
>simple, less deer killed and
>less pressure will help the
>herd. The deer can go
>without the projects, but the
>DWR can't go without your
>donation. 833 bucks may have
>still been roaming the hills
>this year if the DH
>program didnt exist. That's fact
>based.
>
>Bess folding Benjamin Franklin in half
>and lining Don Peays pocket
>constitutes folding paper...?

Hey Bo!

You're Right!

But it's the Only F'N Legal Gambling I can do in TARDville!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[headshot05]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-19 AT 05:40PM (MST)[p]>>
>>>
>>>Uh No!
>>>
>>>DH's do way less Damage than
>>>PISSCUTTER Hunters!
>>>
>>>I'm with you on the $$$
>>>Part,Where's that Going?
>>>
>>>There Are 10's of Thousands PISSCUTTER
>>>Pounders that are gonna kill
>>>a Buck No matter what
>>>& Every Year they get
>>>a F'N Tag!
>>>
>>>And I Never Folded Any F'N
>>>Paper!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I know so many people in
>>>so many places
>>>They make allot of money but
>>>they got sad faces
>>>
>>>It Ain't Easy being Me!
>>
>>Bessy, people don't get tags every
>>year anymore. It's a ?limited
>>draw? general season 9A takes
>>like 3 points to guarantee
>>a rifle tag. Lmfao. Biggest
>>crock of all time. Make
>>the whole state limited. No
>>more general season draw. So
>>dumb.
>
> Hang On!
>
>Hang On!
>
>You're Right!
>
>Not All TARDS Get a Tag
>Every Year!
>
>But All Tags are Sold/Drawn Every
>Year!
>
>AKA same amount of TARDS Hunting
>every year rather it be
>the same TARDS or Different
>TARDS,You Get that?
>
>
>
>
>>
>>And like states above. If there
>>are 3000 DH that can
>>hunt every season. That's 3000
>>more per season, where as
>>if it was 1 permit
>>it would be 3000 split
>>between what weapon they drew
>>out for.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!

That's why switching it all to limited entry it will be better. different tards every year haha. And make all units 4 point or better on 1 side

 

[elkassassin]

So let Me Get This Sssshhiiiiit Right?

7800 of Us are the Only F'N Problem with the Deer Herd?

The other 85,000 TARDS/Hunters Ain't Effecting Our Deer Herd?

UN-F'N-Real!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[headshot05]

Nobody ever said DH was the only problem. It has only been mentioned as a way to help the deer herds as well. Don?t get your poon all worked up

 

[Bocephus]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-19 AT 06:23PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-19 AT 06:17?PM (MST)

To NotDon's point it's been decades and they have proven that the time or projects haven't been used for the benefit of the deer herd. Something to think about in regards to our paid employees of the DWR: How many of you have ever been checked by a game warden in the field? I have hunted this state for 25 years and have never been checked by a game warden. I have very very rarely seen paid employees of the DWR in the field. I did see one last spring checking prairie dog traps in town. The DH program has if anything made their job cushier as they rely on you all to do the work they are not willing to do. They rely on us to turn poachers in instead of having a presence in the field, they rely on you all to build a guzzler, plant bitter brush, fold a pamphlet etc and in return our deer herds are mis-managed. If we get rid of it we save bucks, literally and figuratively and improve the herd. My question would be, why keep it???

Would the deer herds miss the program or would the people in the program miss the program? My bet is the deer won't miss it......

 

[headshot05]

Phuckin A Bo +1

 

[elkassassin]

So Bo & headshot?

How many times have you been in the DH Program?








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[elkassassin]

Did You 2 read Post # 13?








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[headshot05]

I did, and I am sure there are lots of guys like him. As I know you are the same way. But that doesn't mean all DH are. It isn't an argument if DH is right or wrong, just a way that would help the deer with less pressure and that's a fact.

 

[hossblur]

I bought a winch and a mount for the DWR in price this year.

Did it help a deer? No. Did it free up money to use somewhere else. Yup.

$fw auctions off 200+ tags a year. Does each help a deer? Does the gov tag help a deer? Did AI suddenly become covered with buck brush and water tanks from the 6 figure tags? NOPE.

I delivered proc years ago.

It helps. Trucks ain't free. Insurance on rgem ain't either. Maintenance on them ain't either. Nor is gas. Nor is the DWR guy driving.
Next time you see your local plumber or electrician ask him what he charges an hour to put a "chuck in a truck" before they even show up.

It all adds up.

Me personally have done it 13yrs. I've killed 2 deer.
My local amazon driver has killed more in 13yrs hitting them on the road.



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[elkassassin]

>I bought a winch and a
>mount for the DWR in
>price this year.
>
>Did it help a deer?
>No. Did it free
>up money to use somewhere
>else. Yup.
>
>$fw auctions off 200+ tags a
>year. Does each help
>a deer? Does the
>gov tag help a deer?
> Did AI suddenly become
>covered with buck brush and
>water tanks from the 6
>figure tags? NOPE.
>
>I delivered proc years ago.
>
>It helps. Trucks ain't free.
> Insurance on rgem ain't
>either. Maintenance on them
>ain't either. Nor is
>gas. Nor is the
>DWR guy driving.
>Next time you see your local
>plumber or electrician ask him
>what he charges an hour
>to put a "chuck in
>a truck" before they even
>show up.
>
>It all adds up.
>
>Me personally have done it 13yrs.
> I've killed 2 deer.
>
>My local amazon driver has killed
>more in 13yrs hitting them
>on the road.
>
>
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.

And Hoss We are still Labeled the problem with the PISS POOR Management of the TARDville Deer Herd!

Them 2 Bucks you took must of made a Devastating Impact on the Herd!

I Agree!

I Know Guys that Average way More Deer with the Front Bumper than Most DH's take!

But That Ain't Mentioned much!







I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Bocephus]

Hoss that is very admirable of you and I'm sure they appreciated your generosity, but I have to wonder where the "freed up money" went?

I've said it before, I think the program at one point was a good thing. The original question was; would getting rid of the DH program help our deer herds? I'm sure there are a handful of people like you, Bess, Rman who use it as an opportunity to only kill mature bucks, but last year alone there were 883 bucks killed and I would believe not all of them were mature bucks. I know a lot of DH and they get into their 2nd and 3rd year and are killing the same type of bucks the rest of the population is killing. IMO the program has run its course and we are in a different place than when it started. If by getting rid of it we can save 800-900 bucks a year then I say for the improvement of our herds get rid of it. Hard to argue saving nearly 1000 bucks lives a year is a bad thing at this point, would you not agree?

 

[elkassassin]

>Hoss that is very admirable of
>you and I'm sure they
>appreciated your generosity, but I
>have to wonder where the
>"freed up money" went?
>
>I've said it before, I think
>the program at one point
>was a good thing. The
>original question was; would getting
>rid of the DH program
>help our deer herds? I'm
>sure there are a handful
>of people like you, Bess,
>Rman who use it as
>an opportunity to only kill
>mature bucks, but last year
>alone there were 883 bucks
>killed and I would believe
>not all of them were
>mature bucks. I know a
>lot of DH and they
>get into their 2nd and
>3rd year and are killing
>the same type of bucks
>the rest of the population
>is killing. IMO the
>program has run its course
>and we are in a
>different place than when it
>started. If by getting
>rid of it we can
>save 800-900 bucks a year
>then I say for the
>improvement of our herds get
>rid of it. Hard
>to argue saving nearly 1000
>bucks lives a year is
>a bad thing at this
>point, would you not agree?
>


Hey Bo?

You're Quick to Boast this!

But You Say Nothing about the Extended Archery?

If You Really wanna save some Deer Think about that one!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Bocephus]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-19 AT 07:53PM (MST)[p]Boast? I'm not boasting about anything Bess. You seem to sure take defense on this subject. If we really want to make changes I am open to putting everything on the table. This isn't a thread about the extended archery last I checked? If you aren't in favor of saving 800-900 bucks lives a year than all the "talk" about improving the herds you throw out sure doesn't have much bearing to it.

I don't hunt the extended for deer it's a zoo I agree with you on that, but I would love to see some FACTS on success rates on that hunt not just regurgitated BS. Oh and DH's are able to hunt the extended as well, so I don't see the point of your point.

 

[elkassassin]

>LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-19
>AT 07:53?PM (MST)
>
>Boast? I'm not boasting about anything
>Bess. You seem to sure
>take defense on this subject.
>If we really want to
>make changes I am open
>to putting everything on the
>table. This isn't a
>thread about the extended archery
>last I checked? If you
>aren't in favor of saving
>800-900 bucks lives a year
>than all the "talk" about
>improving the herds you throw
>out sure doesn't have much
>bearing to it.
>
>I don't hunt the extended for
>deer it's a zoo I
>agree with you on that,
>but I would love to
>see some FACTS on success
>rates on that hunt not
>just regurgitated BS. Oh and
>DH's are able to hunt
>the extended as well, so
>I don't see the point
>of your point.

800-900 Bucks Ain't SQUAT to the Real/Big Problem!

So?

If the DH's are Killing around 800-900 Bucks per year?

How Many Bucks are Being Harvested by the other 85,000 TARDS?

Answer Please!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Bocephus]

I think you are looking at the real big problem, guys want their cake and want to eat it too. Everyone is all for changing something until it impacts them even if it is detrimental to the resource. The DH program is putting more stress on the herds and say what you want, but 800-900 bucks isn't squat especially in this state on general units. Tough to argue facts with BS.

 

[elkassassin]

>I think you are looking at
>the real big problem, guys
>want their cake and want
>to eat it too.
>Everyone is all for changing
>something until it impacts them
>even if it is detrimental
>to the resource. The DH
>program is putting more stress
>on the herds and say
>what you want, but 800-900
>bucks isn't squat especially in
>this state on general units.
>Tough to argue facts with
>BS.

Hey Bo?

You didn't answer My Question!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Bocephus]

No mandatory harvest reports so true success rates aren't available. I'm not going to just throw a number out, but I will agree with you that too many bucks are being killed every year. Cutting the DH out will immediately save close to 1000 bucks a year and that's a fact. What more can be argued?

 

[elkassassin]

>No mandatory harvest reports so true
>success rates aren't available. I'm
>not going to just throw
>a number out, but I
>will agree with you that
>too many bucks are being
>killed every year. Cutting the
>DH out will immediately save
>close to 1000 bucks a
>year and that's a fact.
>What more can be argued?
>

I Agree without mandatory Reports We don't know exact numbers!

But somebody must have some kind of a Guesstimate?











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[elkassassin]

How Bout it EFA?

What's the DWR Claiming on General Season Harvest in 2018?

Yes I Want Archery,Muzz & Rifle combined!










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[notdonhunting]

Bocephus how are you coming up with your numbers, 900 deer shot how are you coming up with that number and if the DWR did eliminate the DH program do you think the DWR would not sell that 7000 plus permits. Like I said earlier I know that there is not half of the dedicated hunters that are paying for there hours and so what if they are.
Guys on this site want to run the DWR down for generating money. What do you guys think they should run the DWR on zero dollars. You saying that Fish and Game officers are not out in the field is BS, every year I see multiple officers out in the field most of them guys work longer hours than most of us that are on this site being armchair game biologists.
You trying to insinuate that Don Pay is receiving that money is ridiculous.
Like I said and I will keep repeating it you all want to !@#%% about too many deer being shot and too many young bucks being shot but you want to eliminate a program that limits the amount of deer shot and generally influences older more mature deer shot.

 

[Tikka]

It's all in what you want to do for DH hours... if you want to look for the easy way out, well a guy can find easy hours to work...
If you want to do something to help mule deer you can find that too... the problem is that most of those hours require work to get to those projects and even more work once your there...
So that eliminates some people for that type hour donations....

I've built guzzlers, repaired guzzlers from mother nature?s damage and repaired guzzlers from tards damaging them...

I've also built fences to keep those ******** lazy razor owners away from guzzlers that were never ment to have roads that lead right to them....

So Bo it's all in what you want to do with your DH hours... what have you done for mule deer besides buy a tag to kill one?

 

[Bocephus]

NotDon,

You have to file a mandatory harvest report if you are dedicated. That's the whole point of 2 bucks in 3 years. It's published statistics from 2018, 883 bucks killed. I'm just stating my experience, so call it BS if you must, but I've never been checked in 25+ years. Nobody in my immediate circle have been checked. Nobody knows how many pay for their DH hours other than the division. For all we know it could be over half. Your rebuttle is full of holes. The only thing that is fact is 883 bucks were reported as killed last year from dedicated hunters. I dont know if they would put those tags back in the draw or not that's not the question that was asked. I would hope they wouldn't, but given their track record $$$ is king. The facts say if there was no DH program last year 883 bucks would have possibly been available this year and for years to come.

I dont expect them to run on no money, but I do think we all should know where it's going. It sure isn't being put back into the herds. When they are asked where it goes we get no answers. If you dont agree with that then we will just agree to disagree.

 

[Bocephus]

Tikka,

I may not have ever built a guzzler, but I make it a priority to predator hunt. IMO that has saved more fawns than any guzzler or folded pamphlet has. I'll be honest I have considered joining the program, and keep an eye on the projects. It has been a long time since I've seen one that I felt was beneficial to the herd.

The most recent one was spreading bitter brush seed. I'll give you that there could be some long term benefits to that project. I'm open minded, talk me into joining. If the true purpose is to help increase habitat and herd size I'm all in, but in those categories I would be hard pressed to give the program a passing grade based on its history.

 

[BillyBoB]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-19 AT 00:35AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-19 AT 11:54?PM (MST)

The reality of the DH program is simple.
It gives more opportunity to kill. PERIOD

Less opportunity to kill equals less killed.
Am I saying I want hunters to have less opportunity to kill?
Yes!
Myself included.
There?s a bigger picture to see than to just focus on DH
We all need to make some sacrifices.
I believe we should decrease the time archery hunters have in the field.

Regardless, big changes need to be implemented.
Because what we've been doing for years isn't working.

I am advocating for the deer. Not you, not me, not any hunter. Regardless to weapon type, DH hunters, lifetime tag holders, not youth not anyone except for the animals.
I'm the dik.
We won't get to 400k deer by killing the does and creating more hunting opportunities.

Go ahead blast away



"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt

 

[headshot05]

>LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-19
>AT 00:35?AM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-19
>AT 11:54?PM (MST)
>
>The reality of the DH program
>is simple.
>It gives more opportunity to kill.
>PERIOD
>
>Less opportunity to kill equals less
>killed.
>Am I saying I want hunters
>to have less opportunity to
>kill?
>Yes!
>Myself included.
>There?s a bigger picture to see
>than to just focus on
>DH
>We all need to make some
>sacrifices.
>I believe we should decrease the
>time archery hunters have in
>the field.
>
>Regardless, big changes need to be
>implemented.
>Because what we've been doing for
>years isn't working.
>
>I am advocating for the deer.
>Not you, not me, not
>any hunter. Regardless to weapon
>type, DH hunters, lifetime tag
>holders, not youth not anyone
>except for the animals.
>I'm the dik.
>We won't get to 400k deer
>by killing the does and
>creating more hunting opportunities.
>
>Go ahead blast away
>
>
>
>"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak.
>So we must and we
>will."
>Theadore Roosevelt

+1

 

[elkassassin]

Hey BillyBob!

I Agree with most of what You're Sayin!

But if You're Cuttin in to DH's & Lifetime Tag Holders!

I Wanna see what kind of Deal you're gonna make with the Lifetime Boys without somebody coming UN-C###ED!

And No,I Don't have one!

Never could figure this one out on the Whiners of the DH Program:

Until Recent Years:

Joe Blow Could Buy/Draw a Tag Every Year & Kill a Deer every year,and would!

DH's could only Take 2 Deer in a 3 year period!

I'm sure there are DH's that are gonna take 2 Deer in that 3 year period No Matter What!

But there are DH's (Several on this Site!) that have admitted they rarely take a Deer while in the Program for many Entries!

So?

Did the DH's/We already Not Sacrifice a little?

Show me anywhere else within the UDWR System where anybody lessened their Odds of Taking less Game on Legal paper!

I get a Feeling that now,since you can't Buy/Draw a Tag every year some of these People are PISSED because after they didn't Draw a Tag they see DH's Hunting and get to Thinking"That Ain't Fair"!

Tough F'N Titty!

I've Never Folded Paper But I Will Compare The Numbers of Tree's I've Knocked Down within the same TimeFrame/Hours with anybody out there!

No I Didn't Look For Hours that I Knew would do No Good or that were Cake Work!

The DH Program may not of created any Miracles!

Show me any other kind of Program like it!

I Can Tell You This Much:

It Would cost the DWR alot of Money to get Rid of the Program & I Don't see it Happening anytime soon!

Like BillyBob Said:


I Think We All need to Give,No Matter How Hard the Consequences are or We're are gonna Lose a Resource you don't wanna see gone!

So Take My DH Program away from me for 2-3 Years if it makes you Happy!

I Just 'Gave' up something that very few are Whining about!

Now Keep Taking!

You've got about 49 more 'Takes'/Things that need to be changed to Bring the Deer Herd back to what it should be in this State!

But if Some Give All,All Should Give Some!












I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[BillyBoB]

Elk....
I like the discussion none-of-the less.
Yes, I'm sure there are many who are selective in the field that are part of the DH program.
I am very selective in the field and rarely kill. There are many that share that same concept. Both in the program and not.

Regardless,
Hunters who have more opportunity, regardless of outcome, are still putting themselves in the field.
I understand that many have joined the program so that they can get out even if that means nothing is killed.
You can still do the exact same things While not in the program.
Utah has grown exceptionally well as of late with creating new hunts and overlapping hunts putting even more pressure on these animals with a TON of hunters in the field at the same time. It's insane! No one even knows if they should where orange because they have a bow in their hand meanwhile there's 2 other rifle hunts going on at the same gawd dang time in the same place! It's ridiculous!

I know it would be difficult to make such drastic changes such as ending DH and lifetime and I'm not fully supporting it.
What I am trying to do is get people to see the big picture and understand that big changes are needed! Maybe not these changes but we are well past warranting big changes.

Somehow I'm sure money will speak louder than the hunters voices without reason and the lies from the division will continue.
The issues we find ourselves in today, while caring about these animals is, it's a wide variety of issues that need to be addressed. It can't all be blamed on the weather or predators. Although it may play a part. But we've got to get this right and take some corrective steps because we can't afford not to.
We can't control the winter conditions and such but we have to get it right with what we can control. We owe it to these animals to get it right.
Forget all the nonsense of point creep, and all the other me,me,me BS!
Us stewards of these lands and animals need to put our points, pride, wants and desires and other nonsense to the side. Not enough people (hunters) care. Most are only looking out for themselves.
We are part of the problem as well.
Shameful
The division has offered some feedback and changes regarding the mule deer plan. (Which changing to 7 years is ridiculous.)
But they claim to want the same thing. Better quality and bigger populations. Great! The issue is how do we get there honestly?





"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt

 

[southernutahhunter]

DH Project:

Have dedicated hunters go out and get an actual count. Lets get a second opinion on the deer numbers. I am sure the dedicated hunters would love to help count the deer in the unit they are dedicated. You could set up grid maps and come up with a more accurate count than we are getting. These hours would directly related to the deer herd.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Well I disagree DH not the problem plain and simple

2015 there was 6,046 permits

2016 there was 6,956 permits

2017 there was 7,486 permits

2018 there was 7,779 permits

so from 2015 to 2018 total permits was 28,267

from 2015 to 2018 there was 10,166 deer harvested and in 4 years,if you divided it up between 29 units that's only 350 deer harvested in 4 years.I know that number is not accurate every unit has more and less it was just easier this way.

18,101 deer didn't get harvested in 4 years and DH had 4 seasons of hunting

Also how would you make up 904,544 hours for projects we are saving them from hiring more employees which in turn is saving us on taxes and tag fee's

but most of your dedicated hunters do there hours maybe not all of them but I bet a big majority of them do..


I'M NOT BUYING WHAT YOU GUY'S ARE TRYING TO SELL HERE.

 

[Bocephus]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-19 AT 12:14PM (MST)[p]Then why ask? It's been in place for 25 years now, since 1995. I don't think anybody thinks it is the direct reason why our herds are hurting, but it isn't helping. Have the last 25 years not proved that?

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Because I want to be convinced or show me how it hurts the deer herds

DH has a lot of good.

1 mandatory harvest survey

2 tons of service hours go to projects throughout the state

3 hunters are very picky on what they shoot only a 1/3rd are filling there tags every year give or take a few.


I would agree with you guys more if DH was more of a 80% success rate but its not,and its crazy that it isn't because of 4 seasons of hunting but all of this telling me that people are very picky on what they shoot just like me I'm 0 for 2

 

[Zeke]

I appreciate reading all the CIVIL discourse on how to bring the deer herds back.

I sort of agree with Bo, there probably MIGHT be fewer deer killed (unless they just throw those tags back into the general pot and issue them anyway) and it certainly would slow the flow of hunter intruding into OUR world but reality is that the numbers harvested are such a small drop in the bucket that DH program matters little if any to the overall health of the herd.

I also agree it's about money but it's money not spent by the DWR when these mundane projects get done by volunteers. Good job.

With that said, I care not either way on the DH issue so I don't have a dog in the fight.

There are probably bigger fish to fry than the DH program.

We're not thinking big enough here. Double tag prices, cut the tags #'s in half since it's all LE anyway. Cut the DH down to 1 deer every 3 year cycle and cut the lifetimers to 1 deer every 2 years, 3 or 4 point or better for a couple years or so.

I know, I know, bucks don't drop fawns but I DO think that heard health would improve dramatically with more mature buck on the mountain for all the factual scientific reasons.



Zeke

#livelikezac

 

[Elkslayer2015]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-19 AT 12:43PM (MST)[p]Zeke I would totally go with the 1 deer in 3 years I like it and still do my hours.

I think we cut tags and bring back the doe herds and up the buck to doe ratio 20 to 30 bucks per 100 doe's state wide till it gets good then we get more opportunity and more quality out of the deal.

 

[Bocephus]

So if you are willing to "kill" 1-3 years is the main reason you are in the program to just have an excuse to be out there? I can respect that if that's the case, but why not just pick a weapon and hunt that hunt that you draw every 3rd year? You can still camp and fart around all you want the rest of the time. That is my dis-connect I guess. I get serious about one hunt that I am passionate about, every dedicated hunter I know never seem to get serious about any hunt and tend to just be out there adding pressure. The question you asked was answered in many ways but the underlying fact is it is a program where more deer are killed, in a dwindling herd that is not a good thing. You may argue the projects are beneficial but I'm not buying what you are selling after 25 years of proof.

 

[Deerlove]

So if I dump the DH I can kill deer EVERY year? How is this better for the herds than 2 deer in 3 years?

 

[Bocephus]

It only works if the allocation of tags is managed properly. Chances are if tags are cut, you won't be drawing your tag of choice every year to kill every year.

 

[Tikka]

"I get serious about one hunt that I am passionate about, every dedicated hunter I know never seem to get serious about any hunt and tend to just be out there adding pressure."

That's a good one!

 

[Zeke]

So bo, I suspect we've come to the reasoning of your dislike of the DH program.

You don't want guys to have an "excuse" to mess up your one and only dedicated hunting season and the argument is less about the resource? How am I doing so far? I totally understand that we ALL come from a position of selfishness.

Honestly, I'd feel better about the money, which the volunteers are saving the DWR, if there was more accountability and honesty to the sportsmen and a bit less smokescreen.

Zeke

#livelikezac

 

[Elkslayer2015]

BO yes I would kill 1 in 3 years in fact that is where I'm at now next year is my last year and you bet I would do it again.

I'm serious on all my hunt's I archery and muzzy hunt and rifle hunt but if I don't see anything I move on to another mountain It's funny to me how the animals are getting stressed in the area I hunt everyone hunt's from the road about 90% of them do threw all the hunting season

I bow hunted for 20 years and I want opportunity(just like everyone else)I also want quality that's why I signed up for DH this gives me the chance to find quality bucks as of right now all I'm getting opportunity and I'm okay with that.

I will argue with the projects how will they get done without causing a tag increase or tax increase and what is your proposal on getting them done?

 

[Bocephus]

That's not my stance at all Zeke, I've done just fine with having the DH's in the field at the same time. I will say without them it would be less pressure on the RESOURCE. I've expressed my thoughts on the program, in 25 years I have seen nothing but a decline in the herd and quality. I couldn't care less if the program stays or goes but give me some concrete evidence that it has helped build the herd in the last 25 years.

I've given concrete evidence how it has hurt the resource, give me something other than "the projects are a good thing" or we are saving the DWR money, or I've only killed 1 deer in 12 years. That's great, but hasn't done a thing for the overall health of the herd. Why not add a quota of coyotes to earn your tag?

Tikka I know some guys get after it on all the hunts, but my experience is most don't....Thankfully

 

[Bocephus]

I agree 100% with you Elk. Do we really need the projects? What are our paid Division employees doing? Besides that, what projects have been done that have made a viable difference in helping the herd? Colorado, Nevada, Wyoming, Arizona all have arguably better mule deer hunting than we do, but no DH program. Realistically I don't think the deer would miss the program. Do you?

 

[Zeke]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-19 AT 03:03PM (MST)[p]>That's not my stance at all
>Zeke, I've done just fine
>with having the DH's in
>the field at the same
>time. I will say without
>them it would be less
>pressure on the RESOURCE.
>I've expressed my thoughts on
>the program, in 25 years
>I have seen nothing but
>a decline in the herd
>and quality. I couldn't
>care less if the program
>stays or goes but give
>me some concrete evidence that
>it has helped build the
>herd in the last 25
>years.
>
>I've given concrete evidence how it
>has hurt the resource, give
>me something other than "the
>projects are a good thing"
>or we are saving the
>DWR money, or I've only
>killed 1 deer in 12
>years. That's great, but hasn't
>done a thing for the
>overall health of the
>herd. Why not add a
>quota of coyotes to earn
>your tag?
>
>Tikka I know some guys get
>after it on all the
>hunts, but my experience is
>most don't....Thankfully

We can agree that we don't agree on everything but that's okay too since our thoughts really don't diverge much.

I've been sharing some of the "social Media" bucks with yer pa and I hope he's passing them along. There's still a few around but never enough!

How many deer tags have I earned by killing the 17 coyotes this year? I hope at least 1.

Zeke

#livelikezac

 

[elkassassin]

So Bo?

You Talked me in to Not doing the DH Program for 3 Years!

(((I'm Doing My Part So ta Speak!)))

It'll Take a HELL Of alot more than this to Bring the TARDville Deer Herd Back!

What Else are You Preachin?









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Elkslayer2015]

BO.

Do we really need the projects? yes

What are our paid Division employees doing?

Answer. some are helping with are projects and doing other projects.

what projects have been done that have made a viable difference in helping the herd?

Answer. there not as much as there should be the ones that come to mind are guzzlers and bitter brush planting

Colorado, Nevada, Wyoming, Arizona all have arguably better mule deer hunting than we do.

Answer. this one is an easy one there buck to doe ratio is higher than ours that's why they have more opportunity and quality.

Realistically I don't think the deer would miss the program. Do you?

Answer. yes we have a lower success rate we harvest 1/3 less than any other GS in a 3 year period and get to hunt all 4 season every year and the other units only get one season

will it help very little by getting rid of it will cause tag increase across the state and push people even further into the points creep and I feel the success rate will sky rocket because people will want to fill their tags at any cost because it took them 4 or 5 years to draw a general tag

Like I said before you want opportunity and quality they need to bring are doe's back up and then bring the buck to doe ratio up just like Colorado because what they are doing isn't working it's set to low.

 

[Bocephus]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-19 AT 05:24PM (MST)[p]Not being able to hunt every year or only drawing a tag every 3-4 years is the reality we have to accept if you want numbers and quality. Even with your lower success rates in the DH Program there are still 900 bucks a year being killed by that pool of guys. No matter how you cut it it's tough to keep the opportunity the DH program presents and have the numbers/quality you propose. I think you summed up the the hard pill for you to swallow in the point you made:

"yes we have a lower success rate we harvest 1/3 less than any other GS in a 3 year period and get to hunt all 4 season every year and the other units only get one season"

You don't want to give up being able to go on every hunt every year which is 5 if you count the early rifle hunts and extended archery.

You want opportunity, tons of deer, and giant bucks, and hunt them every year with every weapon haha this ain't heaven Shoeless Joe it's UTAH It will never be like it was 40 years ago.

Nothing any of us say in these forums mounts to a hill of beans anyway. Good Luck down the road!

 

[elkassassin]

Hey Bo?

You Answering any of My Questions?







I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[hossblur]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-19 AT 06:31PM (MST)[p]Like I said I bought a winch and mount. Why? Because I could do a basement, spend about the same amount of hours, make enough to buy the winch, plus a little more, and cover a customer.

I painted the 2 new outhouses on Farmington Bay a few years ago. Again, I could do it on my own time, so it worked.

I, however believe they should double tag prices, if that means no more conservation tags,triple them. Hard to listen to dudes who roll up in the f350 pulling the toyhauler, loaded with a rzr, decked out in Sitka, carrying a LR rifle whine about the cost of a deer tag.

I'm open to ending a public opportunity like DH, if it's shown to be beneficial, as long as we take an equal amount of tags from the commercial side.

I'll believe there is a deer problem the first time a CWMU, Gov, or conservation tag gets pulled. Until then, it's obviously not an issue.

Want less pressure, open up access. Some states get it, Utah ain't one of them


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[elktaker]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-19 AT 08:36PM (MST)[p]Seeing that I draw muzzleloader every year and have 100% success. If I switch to dedicated, I will only kill 2 bucks in 3 year vs 3 in 3.

 

[elkassassin]

>Seeing that I draw muzzleloader every
>year and have 100% success.
> If I switch to
>dedicated, I will only kill
>2 bucks and 3 year
>vs 3 in 3.

SPLAIN That one to Bo!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Bocephus]

You'll make it for it no longer being in the program. Cuz you ain't killed ##### as long as this site has existed. Does that splain clear enough??? Haha you big pussycat.

 

[elkassassin]

>You'll make it for it no
>longer being in the program.
>Cuz you ain't killed #####
>as long as this site
>has existed. Does that splain
>clear enough??? Haha you big
>pussycat.

You Ain't Answering any Questions Bo!

You're Right!

I Don't Shoot PISSCUTTERS Just to Say "I Filled My Tag"!

Or!

"I Needed the Meat"!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[elkassassin]

You're Worried about 900 Bucks being Shot!

You'd Best check in to the Big Picture!

But Like Most Hunters Blaming Just one Type of Weapon You're Blaming one Item as well!

UN-F'N-BELIEVABLE!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Bocephus]

Bess when you post one picture of a buck you've killed better than 180 to prove to us all you're not pisspounder, I'll answer your questions. Until then do something constructive and figure out how to get a healthy herd of whitetail along the river out there in the basin.

 

[GLEDEASY]

I can't even believe that some are trying to point the finger at DH being the problem.

 

[elkassassin]

>Bess when you post one picture
>of a buck you've killed
>better than 180 to prove
>to us all you're not
>pisspounder, I'll answer your questions.
>Until then do something constructive
>and figure out how to
>get a healthy herd of
>whitetail along the river out
>there in the basin.

Well Bo!

As Much as I Like Mule Deer!

I'd Just as soon see some decent Whitetails around here!

We've got enough Rivers/Drainages I Think they'd do well if they ever got a decent start!

But the DWR doesn't want them here!

I Guess they'd rather Have No Deer!

I Don't Post Pics of Me or My Families PISSCUTTERS on the Internet!

You've already Heard I Don't Harvest SQUAT!

SUCK It Up!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Bocephus]

"Part" of the problem....I'm realizing the bigger problem and what is more concerning is what a bunch of boobs some of you are.

 

[yoteduster]

>Bess when you post one picture
>of a buck you've killed
>better than 180 to prove
>to us all you're not
>pisspounder, I'll answer your questions.
>Until then do something constructive
>and figure out how to
>get a healthy herd of
>whitetail along the river out
>there in the basin.

We don't need whitetails out here in the basin especially on the duchesne river heck its just about the only place we have a decent herd of muleys in this area

 

[GLEDEASY]

>"Part" of the problem....I'm realizing the
>bigger problem and what is
>more concerning is what a
>bunch of boobs some of
>you are.

Just because we don't agree doesn't mean we can't be friends.

I've typed numerous responses and not sent over the last month concerning people's complaining of the deer herd. Partly because I don't want in on the drama, but if you're reading this then I followed through this time.

Could the deer herds be better, things could always be better. From my experience do I feel like it's as doom and gloom as some have portrayed, no. Animals are cyclic. Was it just not a few years ago that we were experiencing some of the best deer hunting in some time?

The deer acted different this year where I hunted. They didn't pattern quite like years past. I was in a heavily hunted area (historically always is), with roads every where. My observations would be that 90% of the people I shared the mountain with rarely saw a buck. However, I had 7 150-180 class bucks roaming around this 2sq mile area. Needless to say all the other bucks. My count was about 100 deer with about 30 bucks in this area. Whose experience would be right or wrong? I say none as they are each our own experience. My point is though that people aren't patient enough. If they did't see something right off the bat they were gone.

Maybe this place was an anomaly compared to the rest of the state. Obviously many are complaining.

I'm glad people are brain storming. Maybe there's more that can be done. But I'll admit I'm tired of having more and more opportunities taken away. I'm not that old, 34, but I remember being able to go buy a deer tag each year at the store. Soon a draw, then split units, now lucky to get a tag every 2-4 years. I know population is increasing, the commercial part has exploded, and the true enjoyment of hunting is becoming harder to obtain. Are we, or have we headed in a better direction in the last 10-20 years?

Sadly, with the difficulty in getting tags I may only acquire 10-15 more in my lifetime (general rifle). And that's before all these proposed tag cuts people suggest. That's not a lot of chances. We'd all like big bucks, but you can't harvest one without a tag. Hunting is hunting, there is no guarantee in it. What's gonna end up happening is you're gonna start having 20+ people for every tag holder helping out, much like in LE. And we'll still complain that there's too many people.

Now getting off my soap box, and contributing more to the dialogue. I've not read much addressing vehicle collisions. Deer killed by cars is crazy high. What about major fires? What impact do they have on fawn recruitment? What can be done to help each?

As far as pin pointing DH as a potential problem, I'm sorry I just don't see it.

 

[elkassassin]

>>Bess when you post one picture
>>of a buck you've killed
>>better than 180 to prove
>>to us all you're not
>>pisspounder, I'll answer your questions.
>>Until then do something constructive
>>and figure out how to
>>get a healthy herd of
>>whitetail along the river out
>>there in the basin.
>
>We don't need whitetails out here
>in the basin especially on
>the duchesne river heck its
>just about the only place
>we have a decent herd
>of muleys in this area
>

Well Mike!

I Agree!

I'd Lots rather See a Healthy Herd of Mule Deer!

Have You Hunted the Mountain in Recent years?

I Don't need to Tell You there's More Deer in the Lower Country,You already know that!

The DWR Could then Blame CWD on Whitetails but CWD is already here!

Your Right!

Along these Rivers/Private Property is the Only Place anything can Maybe Live/Survive Past age 3!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[BillyBoB]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-19 AT 04:29AM (MST)[p]I'm ok with not drawing a tag every year. Because the years I don't draw, a close friend or family member will and I can enjoy the experience through their hunt.
Pulling the trigger is a short moment in a hunt.
I've often enjoyed others hunts more than my own.
Maybe it's because I don't feel the pressure or the spotlight isn't on me. The majority of my friends and family don't do as I do. They?ll just stay home.

I have a hard time killing anything when I've put in the time, effort and logged the miles to see that the critters are in bad shape.
I think I used the term ?uneventful? to describe my GS this year. It wasn?t that I didn't see any bucks. I just didn't see any that excited me to go after.
The only two times I got excited was when a coyote came in close range while I was unprepared. The other....when I about stepped on a rattle snake.

My point......
If we can't learn to be conservationists and only be killers, then taking away opportunity is the only other option.

I too have enjoyed the dialogue in this thread and offer the challenge for all of us conservationists to spend some diligent time thinking of ideas that might help.
No the DH program is not ?the problem? and yes there are several other areas that need to be looked into.
But this mentality that ?I'm gonna get mine? will not help the situation at all.

No this is not a doom and gloom, the sky is falling. But the issues at hand are not being over reacted.


"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt

 

[Elkslayer2015]

BO I know where you stand on the DH program it shows and that's fine.

everyone on this sight want's opportunity and also quality and I feel we can have both if it's manage properly.

If it was manage properly we wouldn't be having this discussion correct?

One more thing what do you do for are wildlife what projects do you do to help are deer herds?

 

[Elkslayer2015]

BillyBoB I like it +1

 

[elkassassin]

>BO I know where you stand
>on the DH program it
>shows and that's fine.
>
>everyone on this sight want's opportunity
>and also quality and I
>feel we can have both
>if it's manage properly.
>
>If it was manage properly we
>wouldn't be having this discussion
>correct?
>
>One more thing what do you
>do for are wildlife what
>projects do you do to
>help are deer herds?

In Bo's Eyes He's Saving the TARDville Deer Herd If He can get the DH Program Abolished!

Even if He Got His Way it Wouldn't Change JACK SQUAT!

Gonna Take way More than His "I Hate DH's Killing 900 Bucks" way of Thinking!

So Bo?

Even if the DWR did abolish the DH Programs as You Want!

They would more than Likely Transfer them number of Permits back in to the General Draw!

Them Same DH's wanna still Hunt!

You Don't Think them DH's Can't & Won't Shoot Bucks on General Hunts?

There's about 49 More Reasons why the TARDville Deer Herd is in PISS POOR Shape besides what you're Preaching!

But I Don't hear You Bitttcching about anything else?

Like ElkSlayer2015 said:

If the Deer Herd was/Had been Managed Properly We wouldn't be where We are today with a Herd in PISS POOR Shape!

The DH's may not of done everything you think they should have!

But Tell Me Bo?

What have Average Joe Blow/General Season Permittee's done to Help out?( I Know You Said You Shoot Predators,Well So do Most DH's!)

It Amazes Me with the Blindness of some people Blaming just one item for the Deer Herd of Today!

Like I've Said many a times!

When 2 Point Bucks become Big because of PISS POOR Management,the PISSCUTTER Pounders will be Parading them around Town like they're some kind of Trophy!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[hossblur]

At some point if you let it go long enough the answer always surfaces.

Bo tells Bess to post all the 180 bucks he's killed to prove he doesn't kill pisscutters.


So 180 is the mark? We aren't over run with 180 bucks so we must shut down deer hunting?

ORRRRRR, maybe, just maybe, your whining isn't valid.

I've read all the discussions for months.

We need to cut tags, we need less LR, we need everything 180 or better.

You guys EVER ask anyone older thsn 60, the guys un their prime during the "golden age" what the bucks they killed scored?

Hell for that matter ask them where all the grip and grin pics are.

Could it possibly, just possibly be that you have some unrealistic idea of deer hunting tainted from social media, hunting shows, and fantasy?

You do realize that deer hunting was shut down prior to the "golden age" right?

So is that now the solution? Shut down the entire state for years to create some skewed nirvana of 180 bucks "not being pisscutters"?

Just where on earth is this place where 180 bucks are the minimum?

Don't shoot bucks smaller than 180. Tgen you can be morally superior.

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[notdonhunting]

I could not agree with you more Hoss

 

[Bocephus]

You're right about one thing Hoss the answers have surfaced. This thread started with a simple question. That question has been answered and most on here don't like the answer and the reason why is it impacts them and what the way they hunt. All we hear is the same whining about the deer herd, but when a proposition like this is brought to the table and it impacts the way you/me/us hunts we cry like a bunch of teenage girls.

As far as 180 being a bench mark you'll have to ask Bess what he considers a mature buck. I've never scored a buck I've killed so for all I know they scored "nice" or "big" or "fun".

I will leave you this to chew on. When they add these late muzzy hunts to general units as a DH you will be able to hunt Archery, Muzzy, Early rifle, late rifle, late muzzy and extended archery. That sure sounds like extensive pressure on the resource, but I'm no expert.

In the end we are all wanting to have fun, safe, successful hunts. Keep the DH or get rid of it it doesnt matter to me a bit. Hell maybe I'll join in it one of these years all that opportunity sounds good. It wont impact or change the the way I choose to hunt either way so have at it and good luck!

 

[hogg_65]

Instead of cutting tags, I'd rather see changes in start days and end days. Cut the season lengths. Change rules in what type of weapons are allowed. Examples: recurve bows, open sights on muzzy, lever action,single shot, open sight rifles. Close some areas on units to vehicles. Make it a bit harder to kill so many deer a season. Incorporate some different strategies like those, instead of drastic tag cuts. A bunch of hunters already don't get to hunt because they have cut tags over the years. If guys aren't willing to change tactics, then they will lose out their privileges to hunt deer in utah.

 

[yoteduster]

>>>Bess when you post one picture
>>>of a buck you've killed
>>>better than 180 to prove
>>>to us all you're not
>>>pisspounder, I'll answer your questions.
>>>Until then do something constructive
>>>and figure out how to
>>>get a healthy herd of
>>>whitetail along the river out
>>>there in the basin.
>>
>>We don't need whitetails out here
>>in the basin especially on
>>the duchesne river heck its
>>just about the only place
>>we have a decent herd
>>of muleys in this area
>>
>
>Well Mike!
>
>I Agree!
>
>I'd Lots rather See a Healthy
>Herd of Mule Deer!
>
>Have You Hunted the Mountain in
>Recent years?
>
>I Don't need to Tell You
>there's More Deer in the
>Lower Country,You already know that!
>
>
>The DWR Could then Blame CWD
>on Whitetails but CWD is
>already here!
>
>Your Right!
>
>Along these Rivers/Private Property is the
>Only Place anything can Maybe
>Live/Survive Past age 3!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!

No Bess I haven't hunted the high country in a long time I think the last buck I took up there was in 1995or6 on wolf creek but I do check it out every year we were up on the pigeon water a while back checking out the rutting activitie and a few other places it was very sad..I agree with you and others alot needs to be done to get those deer herds back to what I would call healthy population unfortunately I don't see that happening any time soon too many people wanting things their own way no give and all take as we can see in alot of these conversations posted on this site so I'll just stay down here on my river bottoms at least we can manage them a little bit lol

 

[hossblur]

>You're right about one thing Hoss
>the answers have surfaced. This
>thread started with a simple
>question. That question has been
>answered and most on here
>don't like the answer and
>the reason why is it
>impacts them and what the
>way they hunt. All we
>hear is the same whining
>about the deer herd, but
>when a proposition like this
>is brought to the table
>and it impacts the way
>you/me/us hunts we cry like
>a bunch of teenage girls.
>
>
>As far as 180 being a
>bench mark you'll have to
>ask Bess what he considers
>a mature buck. I've never
>scored a buck I've killed
>so for all I know
>they scored "nice" or "big"
>or "fun".
>
>I will leave you this to
>chew on. When they add
>these late muzzy hunts to
>general units as a DH
>you will be able to
>hunt Archery, Muzzy, Early rifle,
>late rifle, late muzzy and
>extended archery. That sure sounds
>like extensive pressure on the
>resource, but I'm no expert.
>
>
>In the end we are all
>wanting to have fun, safe,
>successful hunts. Keep the DH
>or get rid of it
>it doesnt matter to me
>a bit. Hell maybe I'll
>join in it one of
>these years all that opportunity
>sounds good. It wont impact
>or change the the way
>I choose to hunt either
>way so have at it
>and good luck!

Your complaint is that an individual dh can hint all those seasons?

Or that there shouldn't be those seasons?

As a DH i had to pick my unit, for 3yrs. The tag #per unit incorporates me. They don't issue tags, then have all the DH hunters show up on top of that. Meaning there is no additional pressure on the unit.

So all this idea shows that your not concerned about pressure, your concerned about who does the pressuring.

So. Let the proposal be statewide DH only.

Pick your unit for 3years, 32hours, $190.

OR

Play the LE lottery.

Not both.

Cuts point creep. Let's guys hunt deer. DWR gets tons of service, and tons of cash.

Let guys decide FOR THEMSELVES if they want opportunity, Trophy, or neither



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[Deerlove]

Bo the late muzz hunt is a draw tag the dates are the same as muzzy elk.

 

[Bocephus]

Deerlove I could have misunderstood or fell asleep watching the meeting if the new ones would also be LE or not? Would make more sense if they were also LE. Scratch that from the DH list I guess.

 

[heartshot]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-19 AT 12:37PM (MST)[p]The main draw for DH used to be more hunting opportunities.

I think the main draw now is to get a tag for the area you want with out waiting for years.

 

[Castnshoot]

As I write this the ?mule deer plan is struggling to even get a second for a vote at the general meeting.

 

[elkassassin]

>You're right about one thing Hoss
>the answers have surfaced. This
>thread started with a simple
>question. That question has been
>answered and most on here
>don't like the answer and
>the reason why is it
>impacts them and what the
>way they hunt. All we
>hear is the same whining
>about the deer herd, but
>when a proposition like this
>is brought to the table
>and it impacts the way
>you/me/us hunts we cry like
>a bunch of teenage girls.
>
>
>As far as 180 being a
>bench mark you'll have to
>ask Bess what he considers
>a mature buck.

HINT: Older than the Whoppin 3-1/2 Year Old Trophy PISSCUTTER of today in TARDville!


I've never
>scored a buck I've killed
>so for all I know
>they scored "nice" or "big"
>or "fun".
>
>I will leave you this to
>chew on. When they add
>these late muzzy hunts to
>general units as a DH
>you will be able to
>hunt Archery, Muzzy, Early rifle,
>late rifle, late muzzy and
>extended archery. That sure sounds
>like extensive pressure on the
>resource, but I'm no expert.
>
>
>In the end we are all
>wanting to have fun, safe,
>successful hunts. Keep the DH
>or get rid of it
>it doesnt matter to me
>a bit. Hell maybe I'll
>join in it one of
>these years all that opportunity
>sounds good. It wont impact
>or change the the way
>I choose to hunt either
>way so have at it
>and good luck!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[scopenstalk]

Hey wanted to apologize for my joke in the other thread about dedicated "poacher". I said it because another member made the comment that some DH are already killing more than just one deer a year let alone their allotted two deer in 3 years. Anyways I participate in the program as well and have done all my hours on projects not paid, although they were upland game projects I helped establish quail in the sheeprock mountains. I plan on focusing on projects that will help deer when I draw again. Hope I will draw my unit for DH next year. I have only taken 1 buck on dedicated hunter, most of my friends have taken 0, yet we all have done our hours and or paid the money. I think the program benefits far outweigh the added strain on the resource. Just my 02 cents. Again apologize for the ill advised joke.

 

[JakeH]

>That's not my stance at all
>Zeke, I've done just fine
>with having the DH's in
>the field at the same
>time. I will say without
>them it would be less
>pressure on the RESOURCE.
>I've expressed my thoughts on
>the program, in 25 years
>I have seen nothing but
>a decline in the herd
>and quality. I couldn't
>care less if the program
>stays or goes but give
>me some concrete evidence that
>it has helped build the
>herd in the last 25
>years.
>
>I've given concrete evidence how it
>has hurt the resource, give
>me something other than "the
>projects are a good thing"
>or we are saving the
>DWR money, or I've only
>killed 1 deer in 12
>years. That's great, but hasn't
>done a thing for the
>overall health of the
>herd. Why not add a
>quota of coyotes to earn
>your tag?
>

What's your concrete evidence????? that 800 some odd bucks was harvested by DH last year? your to stupid to realize that that is your our biggest supporting argument for the system.

You seem to think that the DH program is its own little group of tags but its not it is a portion of each unit that is given to the DH program 15% to be exact so if a unit does not sell out of DH tags what do they do with the leftover????? they put them into the regular draw.

So there was 7700+ DH in 2018 and 800 or so tagged out that's only a 9% harvest rate for all those tags. I guarantee you that's lower than the combined of all the other hunts.

Your argument is not valid because the DH tags are already part of the general system they are not going to just throw them tags away because you don't know how the system works.

Add into that all the money and hours spent on projects rather you like them or not is a HUGE investment.

And on top of that The DH are paying more for each deer tag they receive it is $190 to get into the system so that is $63 per tag. DH are putting our money where our mouth is in more ways than one, and helping the system as a whole.

I kill a gaggle of Coyotes every year as well your no better than most of us on that front. get off your high horse with that crap.

Personally I've killed 3 deer in the last 6 years on the DH program. I've helped build fences around guzzlers to keep bison from destroying them, I've helped with invasive weed removal in Mule Deer winter range, And I've donated fencing materials to the DWR for more fencing projects.

AND I kill a gaggle of Coyotes every year.

SO BO your argument is invalid.


Here are all my pisscutters from the last 6 years.

Jake H.