Game and fish lawsuit

[nfh]

Acquitted elk hunters sue Game and Fish - Powell Tribune

In 2020, a Park County jury cleared two out-of-state hunters of allegations that they killed and wasted elk on Heart Mountain. Now, the men are suing the Wyoming Game and Fish Department, saying they …

www.powelltribune.com

 

[SS!]

sounds legit ?

 

[mightyhunter]

It is unusual for individuals to pursue claims of this nature unless they have substantial facts suggesting the motives of the parties acting as officers were beyond the pale. The attorney they have retained is no newcomer to litigation. Officer Queen is a good man. I have known him for many years. That being said, I don’t agree with many of the decisions he makes. As a warden, he exerts too much influence over the local game biologists.

I also know that he can act in a threatening manner with a heavy handed approach when angered. His fuse is short. He has made some very thoughtless comments to me over the years that I have just ignored.

The criminal case that he brought that lead to this civil litigation is not an isolated instance. He lost a sheep poaching case in Area 1 that in my opinion should never have been prosecuted. You need evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to convict for criminal offenses. When intuition is your proof, you will not be very successful in prosecuting crimes.

He is close to retirement. If he costs the G&F money, he may be spending the remainder of his time in the new office building. For his sake, I hope the civil case is tossed. Just sayin...mh

 

[SS!]

leave it to an opportunity to bash WYGFD to bring out mighty hunter.

Well done NFH!!

 

[nfh]

leave it to an opportunity to bash WYGFD to bring out mighty hunter.

Well done NFH!!

I dont have any sides on this. Wasnt there. But i agree with MH on queen. He said it perfectly. Lot of people influence him. I will be nice and wont mention names but at the last meeting its obvious who his freinds are. Will be interesting to see how this plays out

 

[Bookhead]

leave it to an opportunity to bash WYGFD to bring out mighty hunter.

Well done NFH!!

Well he obviously wrote a ticket that wasn't justified and drug them through the dirt on it and I also agree they write allot of tickets like that when people know they weren't in the wrong and pay them because they think they have no other option

 

[SS!]

Well he obviously wrote a ticket that wasn't justified and drug them through the dirt on it and I also agree they write allot of tickets like that when people know they weren't in the wrong and pay them because they think they have no other option

A herd of elk can bring out the worst in people..

 

[Bookhead]

A herd of elk can bring out the worst in people..

I know that too I've seen it myself. But game and fish can't just go around handing out tickets either they have to do their due diligence

 

[elkantlers]

A herd of elk can bring out the worst in people..

Very true.

 

[SS!]

I know that too I've seen it myself. But game and fish can't just go around handing out tickets either they have to do their due diligence

The hunters sounded like a real ethical bunch.

 

[Bookhead]

I wasn't there but at least they called the game warden when they screwed up

 

[SS!]

I wasn't there but at least they called the game warden when they screwed up

That’s true. Be interesting to see how it shakes out.

 

[lostinOregon]

You don't have the authority to tell people they can't leave the County. The statute of limitations might be an issue in state court, but often if the suit is filed in federal court, timelines are often waived in these types of matters. The standard is different for filing charges then it is for convicted someone, so unless they can prove that he acted recklessly or didn't follow standard protocols It will be very tough to win this case.

Rich

 

[HikeHunt61]

I wasn't there but at least they called the game warden when they screwed up

I dunno...

How do you shoot a bull elk when you have a cow tag? One way that happens is a herd shooting event. And if you "accidentally" shoot a bull during a herd shooting event, fair chance you hit some other animals as well. And if you think other hunters witnessed the small war (and you have a guide who doesn't want to lose his license), you might just call the GW since he's going to find out anyway.

All conjecture of course- but calling the GW doesn't necessarily make them stand-up guys.

 

[mightyhunter]

I dunno...

How do you shoot a bull elk when you have a cow tag? One way that happens is a herd shooting event. And if you "accidentally" shoot a bull during a herd shooting event, fair chance you hit some other animals as well. And if you think other hunters witnessed the small war (and you have a guide who doesn't want to lose his license), you might just call the GW since he's going to find out anyway.

All conjecture of course- but calling the GW doesn't necessarily make them stand-up guys.

The cow elk hunts in the Cody area are something I do not participate in. After the first week or so of November, the larger bulls leave the large elk herds. The bulls that remain are usually spikes and a few rags. It is common for little bulls to be inadvertently shot after the initial shots are fired and a melee ensues. Anyone firing after the initial onslaught, is bound to hit the wrong elk or to superficially wound other animals. That is not an excuse for such behavior. If you are going to have cow hunts, when the elk are bunched up, this is what happens. Just a fact. mh

 

[mulecreek]

I dunno...

How do you shoot a bull elk when you have a cow tag? One way that happens is a herd shooting event. And if you "accidentally" shoot a bull during a herd shooting event, fair chance you hit some other animals as well. And if you think other hunters witnessed the small war (and you have a guide who doesn't want to lose his license), you might just call the GW since he's going to find out anyway.

All conjecture of course- but calling the GW doesn't necessarily make them stand-up guys.

Buddy of mine from MO shot this little spike bull on an any elk tag. We were only 50 yds away and even then through binos it took me a while to figure out what we were looking at. At first I thought there was another elk bedded behind the spike as its spikes looked like ears. Then I actually thought for a minute that it had 4 ears.

Depending on the distance these hunters shot at I could see these nubs not getting noticed. Doesn't justify it but I could see it happening without it being a case of just flock shooting.

 

[junior]

Flock shooting happens all the time!
One guy shooting for 5 different tag holders, family members.

 

[HikeHunt61]

I agree it could have been a one-off accident, it happens. I was keying on the "witness" hunters describing the event as shooting into a herd "for what seemed like forever", which sounds like shooting into a herd without a lot of discrimination. Nonetheless, no idea what really happened of course- just saying that the circumstances might be such that the group decided to contact the GW because they knew they were caught, not so much they were great guys.

 

[mulecreek]

I agree it could have been a one-off accident, it happens. I was keying on the "witness" hunters describing the event as shooting into a herd "for what seemed like forever", which sounds like shooting into a herd without a lot of discrimination. Nonetheless, no idea what really happened of course- just saying that the circumstances might be such that the group decided to contact the GW because they knew they were caught, not so much they were great guys.

Agreed, it could have been indiscriminate shooting as well. Who knows! Does seem odd that a guide on a leased ranch would be fine with his hunters doing that to the point he would cover for them when the law got involved. Seems like a great way for that outfitter to get booted from the ranch. But ultimately only these 3 know what really happened.

 

[jm77]

Interesting conversation. @mulecreek I know a guy who was very good elk hunter and mistakingly killed a spike like that on an antlerless tag. He self-reported and was hung out to dry in Jackson. Said he would never self-report again.

Let's not forget this is a news article and most likely isn't even an accurate account of what happened. Think of the opposite of what was written and the truth is somewhere in between.

 

[elks96]

I will throw this out there... My wife had a cow tag a few years back. We found a herd of 200 scattered in a field in the bottom of the steep canyon. We snuck up as last light was approaching and set up. We watched the elk in the mid thigh high grass and picked on out. We watched it in the rifle scope and my binos as it fed. It took several minutes to clear all the other elk in the back. The entire time it fed with head down only lifting its head for a split second here and there as it jumped to a new patch of food. Finally after a bit the elk cleared and was broadside. My son and daughter both had caught up to us by this time and they were watching this elk feed at 80 yards in front of us. All of us looking, when the shot was taken. The elk spun hard, ran with the herds for 100 yards up the bottom. Then as the herd turned a corner one was falling behind as it turned the corner I thought oh crap that was a spike. But no way my wife and I spent 8-10 minutes watching this elk feed, then my kids both showed up and saw the elk. All 4 of us missed the antlers. The antlers were 5.5" on one side and 7" on the other, still had velvet that was yellow and matched the grass. I have been part of over 150 successful cow elk hunts and this was the only time that this had happened. I have seen other crap happen. Especially on the late season cow hunts near Craig. My wife and I both keep playing it back. There are only 2 options, 1 option is when she finally decided to take her shot she shifted her body and then resettled and in the process ended up on a different elk. Or the other more likely is that we both overlooked the antlers as they were still in velvet and the yellow/light brown color matched the standing grass almost perfect.

It was a learning lesson for us all. We ended up finding the bull. We cleaned him out, punched her tag, packed him out, loaded him in the truck and headed to the CPW office and turned it in. Until that day and that situation I had never been able to understand how a person could kill a "bull" on a cow tag. I always thought the only way it would happen was by flock shooting, taking a rushed shot, etc. But none of that came into play in this case.

When we self reported my wife got an 80 ticket for improper use of tag and was eligible to pay a $5 fee and get hew cow tag revalidated so she could keep hunting. She felt horrible and did not want to hunt, the elk she shot went to a needy family...

Another time I saw it happen but was not part of the hunt was an outfitter client on a neighboring property set up to take a shot. Got a range and adjusted the scope and shot. 6 feet above the cow he was aiming at on a steep hill side was a small 4 point bull. He took the shot at the cow lower and the bull above her was hit right behind the ear. Dropped in his tracks. Somehow his turret was way off and the guy found out that the turret got set to some unreal range and the elk was at like 230 yards. Again not my client and I saw it... I used to hate guys that thought they had a long range set up and were dialing up ranges etc. It was much easier to kill elk with guys who sighted in 2" high at a hundred and held in the middle of the elk.

 

[nfh]

Here is the old article I found on this.

Guide and hunters go on trial for allegedly wasting multiple elk - Powell Tribune

A local hunting guide and two of his clients are being tried this week in connection with allegations that they opened fire on a herd of elk on Heart Mountain, killing or mortally wounding multiple …

www.powelltribune.com

 

[elks96]

Here is the old article I found on this.

Guide and hunters go on trial for allegedly wasting multiple elk - Powell Tribune

A local hunting guide and two of his clients are being tried this week in connection with allegations that they opened fire on a herd of elk on Heart Mountain, killing or mortally wounding multiple …

www.powelltribune.com

It sounds like the warden botched the investigation from the get go.... Too many issues that he did not account for, but also if I am not wrong, wouldn't the officer need to present the charges to the DA and the DA would be responsible for determining the odds of a conviction. Also wouldn't the DA be responsible for having experts examine the evidence etc.? The officer writes the charges and gather evidence but the DA would have to determine to bring forward the court case?

 

[mightyhunter]

It sounds like the warden botched the investigation from the get go.... Too many issues that he did not account for, but also if I am not wrong, wouldn't the officer need to present the charges to the DA and the DA would be responsible for determining the odds of a conviction. Also wouldn't the DA be responsible for having experts examine the evidence etc.? The officer writes the charges and gather evidence but the DA would have to determine to bring forward the court case?

The deputy prosecuting attorney handling the case was a recent transplant from Cali. My guess is his experience with G&F cases was nil. The local Park County Prosecutors Office, since Kelly Rankin left years ago, is a let’s make a deal kind of office. That is their reputation. Just sayin...mh

 

[hossblur]

Is there anything more obnoxious than the need to be called "Dr" when not at office or hospital.?

 

[DoubleDropMuley]

Your a Dentist !!

 

[elks96]

The deputy prosecuting attorney handling the case was a recent transplant from Cali. My guess is his experience with G&F cases was nil. The local Park County Prosecutors Office, since Kelly Rankin left years ago, is a let’s make a deal kind of office. That is their reputation. Just sayin...mh

Paints a better picture...

 

[mightyhunter]

I have just heard that the warden involved in this lawsuit will be retiring this year. Just sayin...mh

 

[nfh]

I have just heard that the warden involved in this lawsuit will be retiring this year. Just sayin...mh

Force retirement or by choice?

My understanding is a force retirement

 

[mightyhunter]

Force retirement or by choice?

My understanding is a force retirement

I don’t know.

 

[ClearCreek]

It is my understanding that game warden has been planning on retiring for a year or so.

ClearCreek