Gov not signing 196?

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HillbillyNnevada

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LAST EDITED ON Apr-06-11 AT 10:10AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Apr-06-11 AT 09:58?AM (MST)

Does anyone actually believe there is a chance the governor is not going to sign 196?

I received this email and had to laugh. I know some of you NR haters love it (not all residents are haters).

Wow! Look at all the great benefits! I feel like I am being sold a timeshare. Like a timeshare, they don't really tell all of the important points. I still can't believe resident license prices are actually going to decrease--noway that is possible on resident fees alone. Wait until the buyers high wears off and its time to pay up for the timeshare and those other expenses come due (I have not bought a timeshare in my life).

I think it was time for residents to get a change--just think they should have killed outfitter tags. I am also just sick of Western states, including NV, thinking its great to subsidize resident hunting off of nonresidents. I am skeptical that it is going to work out as rosy as this email portrays it.
------------------------------------------------------

Sportsman's Alert

April 6, 2011



Governor unsure about quota bill - contact her now!



Gov. Susana Martinez still has not signed Senate Bill 196, which would give New Mexico resident hunters some 3,400 additional Big Game Draw licenses. She only has until Friday to sign it or the bill is dead, leaving New Mexico with the lowest resident big game license quota of virtually any western state. Sportsmen need to contact the Governor's Office today and tell her you support SB 196.

Apparently the Governor's Office has concerns that SB 196 could increase the cost of hunting. Here are some facts about the benefits for New Mexico resident hunters if Gov. Martinez would sign the bill:
State residents would receive 84 percent of all Big Game Draw licenses, up from 78 percent now -- an improvement but still a far lower percentage than the 90 percent that most western states give their residents.
State hunters would get all cow elk licenses.
State hunters would get all elk licenses in state wildlife management areas.
A general hunting license would drop in price to $15 (down from $20).
A deer license would drop in price to $31 (from $36).
A junior or senior deer license will drop in price to $19 (from $24).
A combination general hunting and fishing license will drop in price to $20 (from $28).
No license fees would increase.
Does not require the Department of Game and Fish to cut its budget in order to provide New Mexico residents with thousands of additional elk, antelope and other Big Game Draw licenses.

How are those benefits possible? By requiring everyone who applies for the Big Game Draw or buys an over-the-counter big game license to purchase a one-time general hunting license.

For the thousands of New Mexico hunters who already buy a license to hunt small game, waterfowl and upland birds, the cost of hunting will drop. Residents who only want to hunt big game will need a general hunting license for $15 - less than a box of ammunition. And don't forget, the cost of a deer license drops $5 under the bill.


Thousands of New Mexico sportsmen, along with more than two dozen sportsmen's organizations and nearly 75 New Mexico businesses have signed letters or petitions supporting Senate Bill 196.

But unless we convince Gov. Martinez to sign the bill, it will die Friday. Time is running out. Call or e-mail the governor today. Tell her you're a sportsman who votes, and that you expect her to do the right thing - sign SB 196 with no further delay. Her office number is (505) 476-2200, or you can click here to send her an e-mail.

Please pass this Sportsman?s Alert on to friends and family. Together we can make a difference.


About the New Mexico Wildlife Federation

Founded in 1914 by sportsman and conservation pioneer Aldo Leopold, the New Mexico Wildlife Federation is New Mexico's first and most effective conservation advocate. We are dedicated to protecting New Mexico's wildlife, habitat and outdoor way of life. We spearheaded permanent protection of our hunting and fishing rights in the Valle Vidal, and stopped cold the previous sell-off of your public lands. We believe that the best way to get things done is to build consensus with common goals.

Our key priorities are: Opportunity Habitat Youth
 
I emailed her and just said I hope she does not support this BILL at all.Keeping my fingers crossed she will not fall into the trap of all the others states that screwed the non resident hunters.
 
BillC,

Actually the way I see it the 2 states that I am thinking of that changed lately, screwed themselves actually more than us NR!
 
Of course if it gets scrapped, I guess they could go back to the drawing board and then vote on giving unguided NRs 2% again, huh? The welfare program isn't gonna magically disappear and this is a step in the right direction. Guess we'll see who bends her ear the most...the taxpaying citizens of this state or the ones that aren't.
 
Gov. has sense and they could have looked at the real numbers and realize how much us non res. spend in fees.How much of a short fall this would leave the game/fish dept just in lic. sales.I guess time will tell but this gives us some hope.Just wish they would up fees on the tags and not lower them at all for anyone.If they raised more money and used it right there would be more tags from more animals to hunt for all of us.
 
>Guess we'll
>see who bends her ear
>the most...the taxpaying citizens of
>this state or the ones
>that aren't.

Trust me. The governor could care less what nonresidents think because we have no recourse against her. If she is having concerns, she either knows the change will cause economic shortfalls or the outfitters got to her. I would like to think it isn't the latter.
 
Thanks man, I just emailed the governor on what I think the pros and the cons of the bill are and what makes sense for all in involved. I hope many people do the same.
 
Some of you guys need to think more like a politician. I'd have sent her a letter and $100 for her re-election efforts.
 
It has to be the outfiters and big land owners that got to her, their the only one with any pull.This bill is a step in the right direction.So all of you residents in favor of this bill PLEASE contact the govener and urge her to sign this bill. Its not perfect but its better than not doing anything.
 
It's not perfect...... What would perfect be? Reduce the non resident unguided quota to 1%, hell just cut them out all together and see how much effect it will have on small business owners in New Mexico. Me Me Me its all about Me. Unbelieveable greed.
 
Exactly what I've argued from the beginning....SHOW ME THE MONEY

Will save the tall frosties for tomorrow when this idiotic bill breathes its pathetic last

In any case, even if it does go through, the thing backfired quite nicely on Munoz and NMWF by virtue of its ammendments, which I find satisfying :)
 
I hope she signs it. It might not be perfect, but at least it is more in line with other states and NRs. Also, it will finally shut NRs up. Oregon just "screwed" NRs (even worse than NM) and guess what their revenue went of from??? you guessed it NRs.

Hell if 75% of NRs decided not to put in, that would increase odds for those who will. Making NM a lot more attractive than the 15-20 years for a decent tag in AZ or UT.
 
I'm just glad they didn't address landowner tags so worst case I can still spend my way past all this idiocy.
 
Anybody who thinks that Non-Resident hunting revenue doesn't make a difference to our Game & Fish budget should use their last bullet from their hunting rifle on themself, or pin an arrow to the ground and fall on it. If they survive, take an Economics 101 class to realize how truly "simple" they are. Some people say "money money money", well you're exactly right. Thats the world we live in. Get used to it.

Im a New Mexico resident who doesn't draw a tag every year because I put in for ONLY Q/HD hunts. I don't expect to draw these tags every year. If I wanted to hunt every year I'd put in for my home unit and probably draw it. My best friend has done JUST THAT for the last 7 years, Bull and Cow tags.

And yes I work as a guide. Most the guys that I guide with have another job, but guiding hunts provides a supplemental income for HUNDREDS of us! I also live in a small town that WELCOMES Non-Resident $$$ during hunting season.

Seems like this has been beaten to death and ultimately Gov. Martinez has the last say by tomorrow. Personally I hope she DOESN'T sign the bill.

Anyways my 2 cents
 
Well The count down is on.Getting sick of people saying we non residents should be ok with this bill.The reasoning of it just screws us like most other western states or our money doesn't matter is getting old.It is a shame most of us non residents just want a fair shot at some tags and this is terrible on our part.New mexico gives more for sure to us non residents and I am glad they do.How people do not see how this will hurt the wildlife in the end if it would pass is beyond me.Glad to see some residents get this also and they in my mind have helped us non residents from taking yet another betting in drawing a tag.Hope the gov. takes a day off tomorrow.
 
It never ceases to amaze me the number of jealous people like yourself that aren't currently guides but want nothing more than to be on the "Welfare System" of outfitter tags. PM me your address and I can forward you an employment application, maybe you can come guide with us.

You said "the increase in fees makes up the difference", Damn WE ARE THE ONES WHO GET OUR FEES INCREASED MR HONOR STUDENT!! My guess is you'll be the first one to complain next year and the following years when you gotta buy a mandatory hunting license or when tag prices go up, and believe me THEY WILL GO UP.

Maybe raising the application fees wouldn't be TOO bad if there was a point system in place, but thats another arguement for another day and I dont wanna confuse you.

Let me guess, you're a "meat hunter" who only applies for unit 16D? Come on bro, get a grip.

Lastly, Im happy to swap my tax return with you and see who supports the Real Welfare System with their tax dollars.
 
>Anybody who thinks that Non-Resident hunting
>revenue doesn't make a difference
>to our Game & Fish
>budget should use their last
>bullet from their hunting rifle
>on themself, or pin an
>arrow to the ground and
>fall on it.

Now that is funny!
 
Tega52...I appologize about calling you out earlier. I deleted my post before I saw your response.

Just to let you know I really have no desire to be a guide. If I'm not hunting for myself I would rather be golfing.

I don't mind higher fees. Hell I would pay $1,000 for a 16A license. It would really sererate the meat from the trophy hunters.

BTW less than 1% of New Mexicans make what we make. So if you do pay more taxes than I do, I feel real sorry for you.
 
I would highly encourage everybody to make the call tomorrow morning if you haven't already, regardless of which side you favor

505-476-2200

Please consider that our Great State's chronically underbudgeted Wildlife Programs need all the help they can get, and as unromantic as it sounds, MONEY is what provides that impetus

Please consider the bigger picture here

Thank You fellow Sportsmen
 
I truly do thank everyone (especially the people who do not live in this great state) for their concerns regarding the future of New Mexico and the quality of the hunting experience. I can truly tell that people are not interested in "an excellent opportunity to fill their tags" but for the wellbeing of the state. I appreciate that, and for a person who loves to hunt, no; who lives on hunting (no offense guides), I can confidently state: you are all full of crap. Your money does not go to local communities. I can speak first hand on not drawing an elk tag for 4 years in a row. I cross the border and buy an over the counter tag from Colorado. Do I go there and buy my groceries, beer, supplies? Seriously? I think we all know the answer, just as all of you do, I go prepared to stay for a week or two, so please spare me the discussions on how this will impact our economy.
 
I agree with you on that part. When I hunt elk in your state I buy ice in Gallup and maybe a hamburger then I am buried in the woods for the rest of the trip. If I use a guide then it is different as they are buying all the camp supplies locally. I hope you figure out what you want to do then get on with living life. Good luck.
 
As a NR hunter I do not personally care what the outcome of all this is. I will apply if the NR % is anything greater than 0! However, I can not read a lot of posts on this issue without disagreeing on the $ that NR put into ANY state. As a primarily DIY hunter that hunts in at least 4 different states per year, I and my hunting partner(s) leave plenty of money behind in the states that we hunt. In addition, looking at NM fiscal position going into 2012 ($350-$450 million deficit like most years)the Governor no doubt is hesitant to take any chances that my cause a loss of revenue for New Mexico.
One of the states that I hunt very regularly is South Dakota. Hunting/Fishing is one of their primary economic resources. Pheasant hunting alone contributes +$250 million annually! This is primarily supplied by non-residents. Without hunting and fishing, South Dakota would be broke...period.
 
>HBN-I don't think anyone is "getting
>to" this lady.
_____________________________

Not even her husband?
That must be a bummer for her! ;-)


"Windage & Elevation Pilgrim, Windage & Elevation"
 
They don't get it because of the ME mentalaty that is prevalent throughout society. If some of these guys think they have a long shot chance at just one more tag for Me Me Me then to hell with any local or small business owners. At this point I don't care if she signs the bill or not. I haven't drawn a tag in over 5 years with all those hundreds of thousands of NR tags that NR hunters have been stealing from the world class hunters of New Mexico.
 
This horse has been beat to death and I do pay my share of taxxes so here is my question, all you NR who are pissed that the people who live and work here want more tags in our HOME state, why are you not more pissed at the outfitter welfare program and try to understand that you would expect the same where you live?

I personaly would like to see an 85-15 split. If you want an outfitter or can afford it great. To argue that when you come her for a week you put more into the economy than me who camps, hunts, etc... all year is garbage. Some ok who do not play in the outdoors all year maybe. I am a civil contractor who works and lives in most all the small comunities throughout the year, so I donate plenty.

Lastly I try and hunt with friends who are NR every year here in NM, so I agree the 6% is CRAP. Your anger and calls should be to put all those NR tags in the general fund.

My last rant, I think guides perform a great service and am all for them, but to garuntee tags is the part I struggle with. The state should garuntee the company I work for projects without qualification or bidding.......

Good luck on all your draws!
 
Can anyone interpret this off the NM legislature website?

[2] SCONC/SFC-SCONC [5] DP/a-SFC [25] DNP-CS/DP [27] PASSED/S (38-3) [37] HCPAC/HTRC-HCPAC [47] DP-HTRC- DP/a [52] PASSED/H (45-21) [46] s/cncrd

I am assuming the SGND at the end of most bills on there designated signed by the governor?
 
there is a link that has those definitions on that same page.

The s/cncrd is the Senate concurrence of the House amendment.
 
>I think that if it were
>85/15 or even 90/10 this
>rhetoric would be gone.

Absolutely, need to take the training wheels off the wildlife pimps.

--Bill
 
Yep, she signed it. I just received this email.

TAKE NOTE: Where it says Sen. Munoz is a hero and deserves all the credit for this bill. He should also be the first person NM residents blame if this thing goes off the tracks.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Sportsmen's Alert

April 8, 2011

Governor hears sportsmen, signs SB 196

Sportsmen?s strong support of Senate Bill 196 paid off today when Gov. Susana Martinez signed the bill we have been waiting for. Hundreds, perhaps thousands of hunters flooded her office with calls and e-mails in recent days encouraging her to do the right thing. She did, and now she deserves our thanks.

?This is a great day for our resident hunters,? said Ray Trejo, vice president of New Mexico Wildlife Federation. ?This bill is a good first step toward bringing New Mexico?s big game quota law in line with other western states. Gov. Martinez had said last year that she wanted to increase resident hunting opportunity. Today she made good on her word.?

In a press release, the governor said something similar. ?It's only common sense to increase the opportunities for New Mexicans to hunt on their own state land,? she said. ?This provision also brings New Mexico?s split between the issuance of resident and non-resident licenses into closer alignment with other states.?

Sen. George Munoz of Gallup, who sponsored the bill, said sportsmen played a role in its success. ?With all their support, and the New Mexico Wildlife Federation, United Bowhunters of New Mexico, the governor?s staff and so many others, this piece of legislation will finally change something for the better for New Mexico hunters.?

SB 196 will give resident hunters 84 percent of every hunt code, up from the current 78 percent. In addition, residents will get all elk licenses in the state wildlife management areas, plus all cow elk licenses statewide.

Unguided nonresidents get 6 percent of licenses. The remaining 10 percent of licenses are set aside for hunters from any state who must, by law, hire a New Mexico outfitter.

SB 196 also reduces general hunting and deer license fees by $5, and requires every hunter who applies for a Big Game Draw or over-the-counter big game license to purchase a general hunting license ? a provision common in most western states.

Sportsmen should write a note of thanks to Gov. Martinez for signing SB 196. Click here for her contact information.

But Sen. Munoz is the real hero of this story. He took on this unprecedented effort on behalf of all New Mexico hunters and put an enormous amount of work to successfully steer the bill through the Legislature and get it before the governor for her signature. He deserves the thanks of every sportsman in New Mexico. You can send him a note at [email protected]. Better yet, send a letter expressing your appreciation to his local newspaper, the Gallup Independent, or your own paper. Here is contact information for the major newspapers of the state:
 
>This horse has been beat to
>death and I do pay
>my share of taxxes so
>here is my question, all
>you NR who are pissed
>that the people who live
>and work here want more
>tags in our HOME state,
>why are you not more
>pissed at the outfitter welfare
>program and try to understand
>that you would expect the
>same where you live?

I am pissed about the outfitter program. I think a lot of NR agree with me. The problem is, NR can't do ##### about it. We don't vote in NM. You guys, residents, have to do something about it.
 
AT LEAST IT IS FINALLY OVER!!! Guess I will just have to settle for my Gila/Caldera tag that I will be drawing in June while the odds are still reasonable?
 
>HillbillyNnevada, Residents also hate the outfitter
>program! You're not alone!

I know residents too are not a fan. I think a lot of NRs, including me, are not mad that things changed. We aren't happy because we feel like we got the shaft when the real problem is the outfitter program. We were the the easiest target since the outfitters are so powerful. For god sakes, we nearly ended up with 2% (because we have no say) while the outfitters took the cake.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-08-11 AT 04:03PM (MST)[p]Good Grief...well that's that for now, eh!

We'll see how it goes... I foresee a significant loss of revenue to the Department, to the direct detriment of our wildlife programs

Oh right, Munoz and NMWF forecast an INCREASE in revenue...

Well, I was wrong in predicting that this ridiculous thing would never pass, so let's hope I'm wrong again, eh? :)
 
hero???

I will save that designation when he gets outfitter welfare completely eliminated like Montana just did.

I recently joined NMBH to support their efforts to fight the outfitter & landowner lobby, since it appears nobody else is. It's now time to roll up their sleeves and start a serious effort. Am over eager to see what gets done the next 12 months. Hoping it's not a Don Peay imitation.
 
The new fee will for non res will be $65.00 per year not per hunt but you get a small game license for that. I am a resident and I was for the pre amendment bill (straight 90/10 split). I I think the outfitter alottment ruined this bill and I had hoped it wouldn't have been passed. Maybe in 2 years we can address that. While I agree NR's provide good revenue, I beleive their arguement totally diregards the DIY Nr contribution
 
OK..... I'm not going to pound my chest, but what the majority of RESIDENT NM hunters wanted happened! This includes bow clubs, muzzy hunters and the rest of us rifle hunters.Now we have to change the land owner system. This will happen next year.I have many NR friends that love to come here and hunt but times are different than they used to be. ALL THIS BULL ABOUT NM economically going bust without NR money is totaly propoganda.We NM residents will pay more to make up the difference in lost revenue from less NR licences.And be happy to do it. The point most of you NR have missed through this whole isue is THE WILDLIFE IN NM BELONGS TO NM RESIDENTS.Not who pays more for a tag.Wish you all luck in the draw.

CC
 
Please explain how you are going to make up the money on say 1000 deer tags going to residents ($39)that used to go to NR ($270-$355)That is $300,000.
 
Wow. Good luck New Mexico from the Non-resident DIY crowd. Only Wyoming and Colorado want us, I guess that is OK, they will be getting my business from here on out. $65 a year for 6% of the tags and no bonus points, doesn't sound like much of a deal to me.

What percentage of outfitter tags do you think will be drawn by residents? Won't all outfitters, their guides, their families, and their good friends apply in the outfitter pool? More curious than anything and wondering if the non-resident total tags will drop because of this rule.

A straight 85/15 split with no outfitter tags sounds fair to me, but who am I to say. The wildlife that lives on Federal Land for the majority of their life belongs to the states, so the state decides for all wildlife and areas.

Here is what I spent on my last NM deer hunt:

1. Truck Rental out of Albuquerque including airport taxes: $500
2. Stopped at Sam's Club - $300 in food.
3. Bought my deer license: $300
4. Stopped at Sportsman's Warehouse: $75 in ratchet straps, powder and other accessories.
5. Bought a fishing license: $25
6. Flies: $25
7. Rented a cabin for 7 nights: $500
8. Ate out a few times and bought snacks, ice, beer: $300
9. Shot a monster muley: $80 to have it butchered.
10. Bought a cooler and Shipped 2 large boxes home from mom and pop UPS store: $100

$2200 total. Sounds about right to me.

If I was hunting from my home, I wouldn't have spent money on lodging, eating out, deer license would be 1/10th the cost, butchering, shipping,....

NM will definitely lose some money on this deal, but as long as everyone is OK with that, I guess it is your prerogative.

It is good to discuss these issues in an open forum. Best of luck to all in NM, I hope your license fees stay low for the young'ns sake.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-09-11 AT 00:52AM (MST)[p]^You got it man...I was just yesterday discussing this probable abuse of the Outfitter allocation with a bud of mine at G&F, and he agreed with my speculation that 'connected' residents will 'contract' with unscrupulous outfitters in situations where their draw odds would be increased

Ya, and I'm quite aware of the mandatory 'two days personal contact' provision, which is a bunch of bureaucratic bull scheiss...who the hell is gonna enforce THAT? We can't afford to pay for enough enforcement as it is now

This is a premier example of dumbing down Wildlife Management by means of general legislation...and to hell with that new money the NR hunter/tourists bring in to the collective State coffers, eh?

now fasten yer buckles folks, DOWN the goddamned hill we go...

Welcome to the NEW 'Tardville...watch out Utah, here we come!

**edit---Oh ya, my quite 'unsubstantiated' numbers show a loss of around $2 million from the Department's revenue per annum

that's a hell of a lot of 'Chopper time :)
 
To sub. in a public school in ABQ, you have to be a certified teacher!

So your $500 Costco bill is not going to affect one thing!

I can not find a parking spot at Costco!

Guess the state is going to dry up now!
 
http://ubnm.proboards.com/index.cgi

Let me know if you need anything else.

For all you NR who say we'll boycott, just watch the hunting channels and see how many guided hunt shows are on there, things will be fine. Take that energy and keep bombarding the legistlature to make it right (85-15 or 90-10) and we will all be better off.
 
>hero???
>
>I will save that designation when
>he gets outfitter welfare completely
>eliminated like Montana just did.
>
>
>I recently joined NMBH to support
>their efforts to fight the
>outfitter & landowner lobby, since
>it appears nobody else is.
> It's now time to
>roll up their sleeves and
>start a serious effort.
>Am over eager to see
>what gets done the next
>12 months. Hoping it's
>not a Don Peay imitation.

I'm guessing your UBNM President didn't tell you he was attempting to get an Outfitters License for UBNM?

Exactly how does that work? Fighting against the Outfitter "welfare tags" and attempting to join them at the same time?
 
"I'm guessing your UBNM President didn't tell you he was attempting to get an Outfitters License for UBNM?

Exactly how does that work? Fighting against the Outfitter "welfare tags" and attempting to join them at the same time?"

There is no issue with outfitters it is giving them tags!
 
With all of the amazing things that NRs do for our great state, I think NM should implement a 90-10 cut. That is 90% going to NRs and only 10% to us peon residents. Maybe even 100% for the much benevolent NRs. That way we can all bask in their glory.
 
"I'm guessing your UBNM President didn't tell you he was attempting to get an Outfitters License for UBNM?"

Bob, maybe you should enlighten everybody (including me) as to what the UBNM President is "attempting" to do. You obviosuly know more about my attempts and intents than I do. LOL

For the record: I could EASILY get an outfitters license and sell the lic# for UBER cheap to NR's all across the country, and still remain in compliance with the law. There would be no "attempt" about it...just a decision. I could do it, and so could most other NM residents whether or not they had any affiliation with the UBNM.

As most of you know though, someone else on here has been doing that for years, so I'm not sure what the big commotion is about??

In any case, the UBNM has bigger fish to fry at the current moment. Even though the NMCO&G fought hard to get the Governor to veto the bill after they publicly supported the "compromise" during the legislative session, I'm glad that the final result was a signed bill that increases resident opportunity and had the pretend blessing of the NMCO&G.
 
"For the record: I could EASILY get an outfitters license and sell the lic# for UBER cheap to NR's all across the country, and still remain in compliance with the law. There would be no "attempt" about it...just a decision. I could do it, and so could most other NM residents whether or not they had any affiliation with the UBNM."

Artichill-

Please enlighten us to the ease.
 
>"I'm guessing your UBNM President didn't
>tell you he was attempting
>to get an Outfitters License
>for UBNM?"
>
>Bob, maybe you should enlighten everybody
>(including me) as to what
>the UBNM President is "attempting"
>to do. You obviosuly
>know more about my attempts
>and intents than I do.
>LOL
>
>For the record: I could EASILY
>get an outfitters license and
>sell the lic# for UBER
>cheap to NR's all across
>the country, and still remain
>in compliance with the law.
>There would be no "attempt"
>about it...just a decision.
>I could do it, and
>so could most other NM
>residents whether or not they
>had any affiliation with the
>UBNM.
>
>As most of you know though,
>someone else on here has
>been doing that for years,
>so I'm not sure what
>the big commotion is about??
>
>
>In any case, the UBNM has
>bigger fish to fry at
>the current moment. Even
>though the NMCO&G fought hard
>to get the Governor to
>veto the bill after they
>publicly supported the "compromise" during
>the legislative session, I'm glad
>that the final result was
>a signed bill that increases
>resident opportunity and had the
>pretend blessing of the NMCO&G.
>

Arc are you talking about me? (bigger fish to fry) If so you caught me, I did it and swear it wont happen again ok!
 
To the point, although a cartel challenged one.

"There is no issue with outfitters it is giving them tags!"
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-09-11 AT 01:59PM (MST)[p]OUTFITTER QUALIFICATIONS:
*Pass G/O examination w/a 70% or better
*No felony convictions
*No Game and Fish violations totaling 20 points or more in the previous 3 years
*21 years old or older
*Registered with New Mexico Taxation and Revenue
*Minimum $500,000 commercial liability insurance policy
*Passed a Hunter Education Course and provide a copy of a HE card
*Complete an application and send it in with appropriate registration fee
*Provide proof of three years of outfitting experience


Not exactly rocket science.
 
LMAO! That's funny stuff, fish. Sorry about the analogy, didn't mean to torque your fins. LOL
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-09-11 AT 02:16PM (MST)[p]"Bob, maybe you should enlighten everybody (including me) as to what the UBNM President is "attempting" to do. You obviosuly know more about my attempts and intents than I do. LOL"

Would you like me to quote you?


"The UBNM is working diligently on creating an opportunity for all UBNM members (R and NR) to be able to apply in the outfitter pool."

"if I can get the UBNM an outfitter's license...."

"UBNM members can use that outfitter's license # to apply in that pool"

"This does two things:..."

"2) Destroys the NRG pool..."

That should enlighten you and anyone else wondering how UBNM works.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-09-11 AT 02:46PM (MST)[p]I don't feel very enlightened Bob. I'm seeing a bunch of random excerpts selectively compiled. You should become a news reporter...for the National Enquirer. My question was, "What have I attempted to do?"

Any attempt would begin with filling out a "Guide or Outfitter Application" with the NMG&F Department right? You should be able to easily contact the department to see if any such application was ever requested, filled out or submitted. If that hasn't been done, then what "attempt" was made?

Furthermore, if this was my intent (which wouldn't mean it had anything to do with the UBNM as I do not make the decisions for the UBNM, the BOD does) why wouldn't I have done this prior to, or in lieu of, SB 196? It would have been a lot easier to do it before the new rule that requires "2 days of personal contact".

I know you're not real happy about how all of this SB 196 stuff went down, but don't forget that you voted "YES" for the UBNM to support the bill.
 
Damn your right Jesse.

I think you should go ahead and make that decision and apply. Be sure you get familiar with Section H, 1-9 again. By the way, 9 says "accompany", not just shake hands:) Make sure you get your guides up to snuff and get that commercial auto poilcy as well to protect you and the guides.

Welcome to the Brotherhood...I can see it now "UBNM Guides and Outfitters." Has a very nice ring to it.
 
Thanks for looking out for me on that one Jim. We know how important it is to make sure all the rules are followed...just like the current phone call requirement. I appreciate your support.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-09-11 AT 04:49PM (MST)[p]That is a sweet deal Bob! From the departments website:

"In addition, if a nonresident applies for a license
granted from a special drawing for a hunt on public lands, and the application is to be placed in the 12% pool of applicants, the contract must be executed before the nonresident applies for the license (19.30.8.11.A(2)NMAC). It is always recommended that a person gets a detailed written contract so there is no
question as to what services they are going to receive."

This has got to be the easiest contract ever written. It only needs to be one sentence long:

You [applicant] pay me [outfitter] $XXX.XX and I [outfitter] will provide you [applicant] with my outfitter license number.

I guess I missed the boat on this one. Here I've been screwing around with a sinking Real Estate market when I could have been selling a one sentence contract for big bucks [the green kind] for the last 14 years. Dang it!
 
Also from the Department's Website:

"WHAT IF A NON-RESIDENT HUNTER DECIDED NOT TO USE A REGISTERED
OUTFITTER AFTER DRAWNING A 12% DRAWN BIG GAME LICENSE DURING
THE HUNT:

If a non-resident hunter came to New Mexico to hunt on a 12% drawn big game license and did not use a registered outfitter and their services then it is unlawfulhunting because:

1) 17-3-16 (B).1a requires 12% of licenses issued to non-residents who will be guided by a NM outfitter or guide.

2) 17-2-7(A).1 Except as permitted by regulation or as otherwise allowed by law[17-3-16.B.1a] it is unlawful to: hunt or attempt to take, at any time or in any manner, any game animal...What does this mean; if NO outfitter/guide was used by a non-resident on a 12% public drawn license this would equate to a misdemeanor violation of unlawful hunting as described above."

I guess a lot of this stuff is subject to interpretation. This clearly states, "requires 12% of licenses issued to non-residents who will be guided." If NO SERVICES beyond the draw are provided it's tough to claim the hunter was guided right? I guess maybe the "2 phone calls" deal is an unspoken rule that sets the benchmark for what can be considered "guiding" a hunter. I don't really know???

I guess the good news is, by the sound of the information provided above, if the hunter is deemed not to have been guided then it is the hunter who is chaarged with "a misdemeanor violation of unlawful hunting as described above." Pretty sweet deal for the outfitter.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-09-11 AT 05:36PM (MST)[p]
When I talked to the top guy, "reasonably supervised" was the term used. However, that designation only applies to an Outfitters supervision of a Guide, per Title 19. It may be in there somewhere but I haven't found it.

Title 19 also designates one guide for up to 4 hunters, who have contracted for "guided services". Services which have no definition.

The phone call "rule" is just internet lore.

The new SB196 rules will fix all of that for 2012.

What it didn't do is quantify a "drop camp" provision. If I want an Outfitter to drop a camp into the Gila, he will now have to either pack me in and out, or hang around the day I walk in and out, or just hang around for 2 days.
With the popularity of back country hunting, I think some type of drop camp provision should have been addressed.

We're looking in two different spots too. I'm looking at Title 19 in NMAC and you're looking at the NMSA. They may or may not tie together.
 
Excuse me if this has been covered but this post is very long to go through.

I see that SB 196 goes into effect on April 1, 2012. Since the application deadline is usually the end of March does that mean that nothing changes for next year's draw?
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-10-11 AT 05:10PM (MST)[p]No, the stupid thing will definitely be in effect for next year...4/1-3/31 is just NMs "License Year", i.e. the annual period for which any issued general license is valid

The Draw Deadline date has no bearing on the predetermined season structure and regulations...also, this (2011) is the first year in quite a while that the deadline has occurred in March
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-10-11 AT 09:13PM (MST)[p]Okay, first off. I am a NR and I strongly oppose what happened to the DIY NR hunters recently.

To those that think that NM will lose out on funds due to this cut in tags. I would hate to say that even by cutting the NR tags to what they have, they will still nearly double their money each year....

Now let me explain. Last year roughly 9100 NR applied for tags in NM. If you got extreme and cut that number in half next year when the changes are implemented, the wildlife department will pull just under $300,000 in license fees before they even charge you for the license. I personally think that the number of applicants will fall by about 25%. This means that the wildlife dept. will pull in roughly half of their annual earnings with this new requirement. My home state of Oklahoma functions the same as NM when it comes to the dollars that run the system. The reason that the requirement is a license and not an application fee is because the feds will match those dollars 3to1. They will not match money made off of application fees.

The NR applicants could be cut by 75% and I believe that the Wildlife Dept. will still make the same money off of NR that they normally do.
 
The anwer is simple. Give the majority of NRs access to all NR tags by doing away with OF subsidies. That is the next step for everyone one except a minority to get on board with. As a resident I will support NRs on the obvious next challenge. It is the right thing to do.
 
I am with you on that one and you can throw landowner tags in the mix. Get rid of them and you will end up with more land to hunt for the public if damage is a real concern.
 
Pretty sad really.

NM residents wanted to be treated fairly by NMFG and rightfully so. So they accomplished this by screwing the DIY non-resident and continuing with the bogus LO and Outfitter welfare system? Good job. When will some of you guys grow a pair and fight the Outfitters on this?

As far as buying the license up front. Personally I would not have a problem with that if they would get off their lazy azzes and manage a fair BP system. That way you know the "investment" will pay off eventually.
 
KTM... are you a resident of NM? If not, sit down and shut up. All you NR who complain about NM need to get a life. Crying little babies.
 
I certainly don't support the new reg or its questionable backers for reasons that are well documented on here, but definitely agree with the above comment

Gettin pretty frikken tired of all these idiot outta towners' sputtering and slathering about what our great state 'owes them'

Most especially the ones that stick their snooty snouts in and squeal about 'how things in new mexico SHOULD be handled'

There never does seem to be a shortage of these goofy frikken goons on here anyway
 
Tayhot, no not a resident. Do you hunt outside of NM? If you do then next time you have an opinion on how that state is treating you in regards to tag quotas, fees, etc., just sit down and SHUT UP!

Keep smoking Taulman's root dude. Just makes you look like the fool you are.
 
^How bout you pipe down until that conjectured scenario you imagine actually happens

Until then, YOU shut yer flapping yapper about it...but pray tell what you know about ol Georgie in the meantime, eh?

Give it up now boy, let's hear it
 
KTM, I do hunt my home state of AZ. I hate the fact that they have a BP system. When I lived there for 20+ years I complained about it. Now that I live in NM, I dont care, its not my fight anymore. I have NO RIGHTS to try and change the way things are in other states. Additionally, I dont have the time to worry whats going on in my neighboors house
 
Hey NR's, look into who buys those LO tags. I could be wrong but I can almost guarantee that it is YOU guys who do. Seriously though, if you dont like it, go get in line in Utah or AZ. If you want just as good as shot as the guy next to you at drawing a 16A elk tag keep applying here. You all are welcome here anytime, its just hard to want to be accommodating to a group who talks so poorly of NM.

Hunt Hard. Shoot Straight. Kill Clean. Apologize to No One.
 

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