Hawkeye here is a question?

cantkillathing

cantkillathing

Very Active Member
Messages
1,475
I am not singling you out to bash, maybe I am starting to see what you are saying and maybe I am in the dark on issues. But as I think about the $5 application fee for the expo draw.

I see it this way in 2 option and you can correct me. option 1: Lets say I want to get funding to create a business and one guy says he will help me out for free and he can get my business up and running. The business I want to build will take millions of dollars to accomplish and I can go with this guy he will help me, and he will get me a few million.

Option 2: another guy says if you pay me then I can get you the money for your business and beyond that, but it cost you money. But I will get you way more money than you will ever get elsewhere. It will take lots of work on his end to help lobby others to get the support that you need and push for this to happen.

So would you take the guy who offers for free that will get you what you want.

or would you go with the guy that cost money up front buts gets you twice or three times the amount of money.

Just wondering if I am the only one that see it this way. I honestly don't care about the $5 application fee. It cost money to make money, or you go with free and get what people will honestly work for on a free wage.

I am sure I will get bashed on this but lets hear the thoughts. Try to keep it without bashing but with corrective criticism.

Also my typing and english and grammar and punctuation are all off so get over that aspect of this.
 
You can't compare your scenario with what we're dealing with because this $5 application fee involves the public trust, money that shouldn't be used by what is supposed to be a nonprofit organization to gain money for themselves. The DWR doesn't get as much from that $5 application fee the way it is set up than having the tags in the draw for all the public to apply for and paying the NV firm to run the draw for them. You're obviously not the only one that sees it that way and would take Option 2 or SFW/MDF wouldn't exist!
 
Travis-

I always enjoy an good discussion and I certainly won't bash you. I have to be honest, however, that I don't really understand how your hypothetical situation applies to the present issue. I assume that you are trying to make an analogy between the DWR asking someone to work for free in an effort to raise money or paying a second person to do the same thing but with a much higher return? Am I close? Assuming that I even understand your analogy, here is my response.

First, it is important to remember that the DWR was not looking to hire a private conservation group to conduct an alternative drawing for premium tags. Rather, the groups approached the DWR and the public and sold them on the idea of taking premium 200 tags out of the public draw in order "to generate reveneues for wildlife conservation activities." R657-55-1. This language suggests that the groups were going to actually spend the money on conservation activities. Let's also consider the name of the Expo, "The Western Hunting and Conservation Expo." Once again, the idea that the groups would use the monies for actual cosnervation. Finally, consider the comments and committments made by the groups in order to get the tags approved. See 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Minutes ("Mr. Peay said it is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground."). All of these facts demonstrate that the groups sold the idea to the DWR and the public under the guise that the monies would be used for actual conservation activties -- not merely to fund the groups operational expenses.

Second, let's address your statement that "it costs money to make money." I believe that you are saying that the DWR has to compensate SFW and MDF (roughly $1 million per year in application fees) for hosting the Expo and supposedly bringing in a huge amount of money for the DWR? There is a major problem with that theory. If the DWR came up with the idea of the Expo (which they did not) so that they could make a whole bunch of money, then wouldn't they have made certain that the groups hosting the Expo were required to return a significant portion of the application fees? That never happened. From 2007 to 2012, the groups were allowed to keep 100% of the application fees and pocketed roughly $5,436,655. Starting in 2013, the groups were required to turn over a mere 30%. So if the DWR was trying to generate money for itself or for actual conservation then it gets an "F". Based upon the history, it appears that the Expo Tags were created to fund conservation groups not actual conservation projects.

Third, on a related not, if this was really about the DWR raising money for itself and for actual conservation projects then why did they turn down the offer from RMEF? RMEF is a much larger group (220,000 members) and offered to return 100% of the application fees + 50 of net profits + 100% of conservation permit revenues + a fully independent audit showing every dime raised and every penny spent. And to be frank, RMEF did not feel like they would be working for free. This would have been a massive, first-class event and they were confident that they would still be profitable. I don't believe for a minute that RMEF could not put on an event that was every bit as good if not better then what SFW/MDF have done and actually dedicate the money raised to conservation. But the state chose to go with the groups that have had the contract for the last decade and were able to provide exact numbers, history, documentation and certainty. That is how the RFP was set up.

In conclusion, I believe that there are problems with your analogy and I don't believe that the state made the right decision. But that is just my opinion and you are certainly entitled to yours. Thanks for posting.

-Hawkeye-
 
Topgun,

Absolutely everything your wrote there is either make believe or just your opinion.

The DWR is perfectly within the law using a contractor to satisfy the demands of the public. ALL non-profit companies gain money for themselves. If they don't then they are quickly bankrupt. This includes your beloved RMEF. The DWR GETS MORE NET from the $5 application fee than if it was in the draw. You are simply looking at the gross comparison and that is not important. IT IS THE NET WHICH IS IMPORTANT.
 
>Topgun,
>
>Absolutely everything your wrote there is
>either make believe or just
>your opinion.
>
>The DWR is perfectly within the
>law using a contractor to
>satisfy the demands of the
>public. ALL non-profit companies
>gain money for themselves.
>If they don't then they
>are quickly bankrupt. This
>includes your beloved RMEF.
>The DWR GETS MORE NET
>from the $5 application fee
>than if it was in
>the draw. You are
>simply looking at the gross
>comparison and that is not
>important. IT IS THE
>NET WHICH IS IMPORTANT.


Quit thinking anybody cares what you have to say bistate
 
Now I have a very simple question for you and all other sfw supporters cantkillathingg.

What projects has sfw done recently. that would even come close to the amount raised from the expo
 
>HIJACK! WE HAVE A HIJACK.
>
Coming from the #1 hi-jacking terrorist on the site. If you even comment the topic goes sideways.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-16 AT 09:13AM (MST)[p]>>HIJACK! WE HAVE A HIJACK.
>>
>Coming from the #1 hi-jacking terrorist
>on the site. If you
>even comment the topic goes
>sideways.


It's a question he or the 10 others that still drink off Peay's well can't answer
 
I just love how someone starts a new thread with a specific question posed to one specific individual and a couple of separate individuals who are on the Hawkeye fan club board immediately jump to their battle stations to hijack the thread. You boys are actually getting organized. At least Hawkeye actually addressed it himself. I can respect him for that.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-16 AT 07:10AM (MST)[p]>I just love how someone starts
>a new thread with a
>specific question posed to one
>specific individual and a couple
>of separate individuals who are
>on the Hawkeye fan club
>board immediately jump to their
>battle stations to hijack the
>thread. You boys are
>actually getting organized. At
>least Hawkeye actually addressed it
>himself. I can respect
>him for that.


Good gawd shut up already!
He didn't hijack anything Hawkeye responded to the post. Can't kill a thing said thank you and end of story. You just can't shut up can you. You have gotta be one of the most obnoxious people on here. Like 10 times worse than old elk assassin;)
Go auction off ur tags in Texas! Oh wait that's all privatized already and what little public land there is sucks for hunting. So you too wanna ruin our state and only allow wealthy to hunt. Stop already I don't think anyone wants to here your opinion anymore so save yourself some time and quit talking.
Not to mention if it was only for Hawkeye they would have pm'ed him. Obviously it was meant for hawk to respond but anyone can.
 
So Tristate is accusing other folks of hijacking threads?

"Hello pot, meet kettle!"

-Hawkeye-
 
Theox,

Slow down on the tuff guy juice because it is screwing up your ability to read and think. I never accused Hawkeye of hijacking the thread. I actually commended him for answering the question. The hijacker was dessertpointbrian.

Carry on little fella.
 
>Theox,
>
>Slow down on the tuff guy
>juice because it is screwing
>up your ability to read
>and think. I never
>accused Hawkeye of hijacking the
>thread. I actually commended
>him for answering the question.
> The hijacker was dessertpointbrian.
>
>
>Carry on little fella.


If you had any reading comprehension, which you don't, you would have understood that even though the name of Hawkeye was in the thread title and mentioned in the post, the gentleman was opening up his question to the entire membership here or he wouldn't have asked for no bashing, etc. We all know how Hawkeye is able to handle himself on here, so the OP was obviously not referring to him when he asked that things remain civil. The one that hijacked the thread, as usual and done 100% of the time, was YOU little fella!
 
Flopgun,

Dessertpoint hijacked the thread. His post had absolutely nothing to do with the OP. Why take up for him. He knows what he did and it worked. See NONE OF YALL are dealing with the original question. Its easier to hijack the thread than it is to deal with an opposing viewpoint.
 
>Flopgun,
>
>Dessertpoint hijacked the thread. His
>post had absolutely nothing to
>do with the OP.
>Why take up for him.
> He knows what he
>did and it worked.
>See NONE OF YALL are
>dealing with the original question.
> Its easier to hijack
>the thread than it is
>to deal with an opposing
>viewpoint.


Nope the original question was answered by the person that was being asked. My question was for the original poster so you just like in every other thread you post in are irrelevant it's grown up talk so you can stay at the playground
 
>Flopgun,
>
>Dessertpoint hijacked the thread. His
>post had absolutely nothing to
>do with the OP.
>Why take up for him.
> He knows what he
>did and it worked.
>See NONE OF YALL are
>dealing with the original question.
> Its easier to hijack
>the thread than it is
>to deal with an opposing
>viewpoint.


First, the name is not Flopgun! Second, you initially stated the thread was hijacked because it was solely for Hawkeye and that was debunked as incorrect. Then Hawkeye came on and stated his point of view. Only after that was the OP asked a question by our other member and it pertained directly to what the OP was wanting to discuss. Then along came Tristate, who again is the only hijacker on this thread just as every other one!
 
Its amazing to watch you bunch of kids circle the wagons and think yall will preserve some kind of self-righteousness out of this one. Dessertpoint hijacked the thread and yall know it. I don't care if he aske the original poster a question. It was an attack and a diversion from the original post. It had absolutely zero to do with the original post. HIIIIIIIJAAAAAAACK. Be proud of yourself.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-16 AT 02:56PM (MST)[p]>Theox,
>
>Slow down on the tuff guy
>juice because it is screwing
>up your ability to read
>and think. I never
>accused Hawkeye of hijacking the
>thread. I actually commended
>him for answering the question.
> The hijacker was dessertpointbrian.
>
>
>Carry on little fella.

Maybe u should slow down cause
I didn't say u accused hawk.
 
>Okay. Let's move on to
>things that matter.
>
>-Hawkeye-


Yes like my question show the conservation efforts sfw has done lately
 
>LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-16
>AT 02:56?PM (MST)
>
>>Theox,
>>
>>Slow down on the tuff guy
>>juice because it is screwing
>>up your ability to read
>>and think. I never
>>accused Hawkeye of hijacking the
>>thread. I actually commended
>>him for answering the question.
>> The hijacker was dessertpointbrian.
>>
>>
>>Carry on little fella.
>
>Maybe u should slow down cause
>
>I didn't say u accused hawk.
>

Nope, but he took that "he" in your post to mean Hawkeye when it wasn't referring to him at all. It's the dang glue he's sniffing every day, I'm telling you!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-16 AT 07:08PM (MST)[p]No need to tell you anything, we're stupid, ignorant, misinformed, deceived, and you all already know everything. We don't speak for SFW and you've asked us to keep our comments off the social media forums.

That's what we're doing.

That's what most ever SFW member I know is doing.

Whale away.

DC
 
>LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-16
>AT 07:08?PM (MST)
>
>No need to tell you anything,
>we're stupid, ignorant, misinformed, deceived,
>and you all already know
>everything. We don't speak
>for SFW and you've asked
>us to keep our comments
>off the social media forums.
>
>
>That's what we're doing.
>
>That's what most ever SFW member
>I know is doing.
>
>Whale away.
>
>DC
So in other words absolutely nothing
 
>No need to tell you anything,
>we're stupid, ignorant, misinformed, deceived,
>and you all already know
>everything. We don't speak
>for SFW and you've asked
>us to keep our comments
>off the social media forums.
>
>
>That's what we're doing.
>
>That's what most ever SFW member
>I know is doing.
>
>Whale away.
>
>DC

Sounds a lot like the SFW quote to KUTV, "It is not in our best interest to comment at this time."

For the record, I couldn't agree more with SFW's lack of statement... It is wise for them to keep quiet and hope this goes away.

It won't.

Grizzly
 
Dessertpoint hijacked the thread and yall know it. I don't care if he aske the original poster a question. It was an attack and a diversion from the original post. It had absolutely zero to do with the original post. HIIIIIIIJAAAAAAACK. Be proud of yourself.

Never in the history of the Internet has a GROWN man sounded more like a child. I can almost picture you spitting cookie crumbs on your keyboard as you write that.
 
>Dessertpoint hijacked the thread and yall
>know it. I don't care
>if he aske the original
>poster a question. It was
>an attack and a diversion
>from the original post. It
>had absolutely zero to do
>with the original post. HIIIIIIIJAAAAAAACK.
>Be proud of yourself.
>
>Never in the history of the
>Internet has a GROWN man
>sounded more like a child.
>I can almost picture you
>spitting cookie crumbs on your
>keyboard as you write that.
>


It was an attack ha hilarious. Get real after all of this complaining about a hi jack (from sfw guys out of all people).


I STILL THINK IT IS VERY MUCH PROOF TO THIS WHOLE TOPIC.THAT YOU GUYS CAN'T COME UP WITH NOTHING THAT SFW HAS DONE CONSERVATION WISE LATELY.


and can't killathing sorry if you felt attacked I doubt you did but sorry anyways geesh.
 
Yall think I am complaining and that couldn't be further from the truth. I think this is hilarious to watch yall's behavior. Hiiiiiiiijaaaaaaaaaaaaack!
 
RE: Hawsuprkeye here is a question?

Suprise suprise you sfw supporters cannot come up with anything good sfw has done conservation wise. Get off don Peay's brim tip.i will give it to you. You guys are awesome followers almost in cult fashion.
 
RE: Hawsuprkeye here is a question?

Nope not offended. But just to address what has SFW done lately for conservation: here are a few things in san juan count. Beef basin sage brush planting over 50,000 sage brush planted in critical habitat for mule deer. Highway fencing is under bid and will start soon, this summer, between Blanding and Monticello, SFW started the process, funded the front end of it to get it going, with other agencies jumping in with matching funds. This highway alone kills 500-700 deer a year. Sweet Alice clearing of juniper trees, and seeding for crucial habitat, I believe it was around 1000 acres. Pond cleaning on elkridge, and on the abajo mtns, $50,000 dollars worth. This is just our area, We are doing more sage brush this month if anyone wants to help, some more in beef basin, some north of Monticello, and some in Moab area. Also this recently we caught and collared and sampled around 100 deer in different areas of san juan. SFW funded the transplant of problem deer from bountiful and some from antelope island to elk ridge unit. I believe it was 50 deer, hopefully we can get as many as we can haul down this way in the future. I almost forgot about the sheep transplant this last year that happened as well that will create another sheep unit in the near future. They planted 25 sheep on Nakai dome area, not a sheep unit yet, but it will be once the sheep thrive in the area. There were several guzzlers that our SFW chapter went and built in the area to help the sheep aswell. So here is a few things that I know of just in san juan county, but SFW puts out a magazine that explains more projects that have happened.
I cant go into depth on other areas but I am sure other chapters have atleast the same amount of effort and time as we do.
 
RE: Hawsuprkeye here is a question?

Here is another one I hope sportsment will get involved with, but SFW and DWR transplanted goats on the LaSal mtns, it is under attack and law suit from environmentalist in Moab area to get the goats we put up there removed, I believe we have put around 50 goats on the LaSal and the objective is to have close to 200 goats on LaSal, but this law suit may hinder the process. Maybe a good lawyer could help keep those goats up on the lasal mtns. SFW helped the funding for the transplant, DWR did not have the money to do so.
 
>>Dessertpoint hijacked the thread and yall
>>know it. I don't care
>>if he aske the original
>>poster a question. It was
>>an attack and a diversion
>>from the original post. It
>>had absolutely zero to do
>>with the original post. HIIIIIIIJAAAAAAACK.
>>Be proud of yourself.
>>
>>Never in the history of the
>>Internet has a GROWN man
>>sounded more like a child.
>>I can almost picture you
>>spitting cookie crumbs on your
>>keyboard as you write that.
>>
>
>
>It was an attack ha hilarious.
>Get real after all of
>this complaining about a hi
>jack (from sfw guys out
>of all people).
>
>
>I STILL THINK IT IS VERY
>MUCH PROOF TO THIS WHOLE
>TOPIC.THAT YOU GUYS CAN'T COME
>UP WITH NOTHING THAT SFW
>HAS DONE CONSERVATION WISE LATELY.


IMHO this is a very poor tactic when it appears to be attacking the blue collar guys that are busting their butts doing a lot of good work for that organization. I'm sure they are doing a lot of good and I think since you live out there you would know that, but HOW MUCH MORE could they do if all the money made from those tags also went on the ground. THAT, I think should be the emphasis, and not the question you asked. JMO!
 
But what has RMEF done in San juan county? what has any other organization done for San Juan county, I see results from SFW and them alone.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-11-16 AT 10:55AM (MST)[p]Or maybe SFW can use the money they use to pay dons salary, pay lobbyists, wine and dine could be used towards a lawyer to help the goats. After all isn't that what the money is supposed to go for?

SFW puts goats up on a mountain then the eco freaks don't like it so SFW stands back and says we did our part getting them there now it's rmef turn. Perfect sense...
 
RE: Hawsuprkeye here is a question?

I have been known to donate my legal services to conservation groups that are open, transparent and doing the right thing. The ironic thing is I made that very offer to SFW many years ago when I was still a member.

-Hawkeye-
 
frosventrehunter your way off. SFW will fight the fight, but when is anyone else going to step up and help fight the fights. coyote, wolf, environmentalist groups, etc... SFW is and will continue to fight the fight with or with out other groups. No body else as i can tell is stepping up the game to fight some of this crap. You have sportsmen like some of you that will fight a group that is doing more than anyone else that I have seen personally, and will end up tying SFW hands and then when its all over and the environmentalist and wolf, and other predators have taken over the game we will all sit back and say that was stupid to fight our own people, other sportsmen.
 
I just want to ask how many of you are a part of any sportsmen group. Are you helping in anyway? I admit I bashed SFW and the program, so I was asked to come to a meeting and be on a board to check them out and get the real information. So I did, went to a couple of the local meetings, seen that they are doing things, and they are being proactive. I dont see any other group in this area that meets regularly, plans projects, meets with DWR, BLM, Forest Service, and finds projects that help.
Lets hear it, is there any group in your local area that is trying any harder than SFW.
 

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