This has been a disaster in the making but any lowlife raghead that drags a dead body down the street is asking for complete annihilation of the entire race and religion. Nuke the ragheads and be done with them. They are animals and that is insulting to most animals.
Israel?
- Thread starter Zigga
- Start date
grosventrehunter
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,862
LAST EDITED ON Nov-20-12 AT 09:46PM (MST)[p]Also pretty funny Turkey PM called Israel terrorists. Isn't that like calling the kettle black? I agree Zigga, start the bombing.
4
440sixpack
Guest
Palestine is US sponsored apartheid, if anyone but Israel were doing what Israel does we'd be fighting against them not paying them to do it.
The Paletinians have said they will not come back to the table until Israel halts the ILLEGAL settlements, the jews say if they won't talk they're just going to have to fight them. clever tactic as long as you don't think on it too hard. funny part is a two state solution is far more popular in Israel than it is with the uniformed US population who wants the jews to wage genocide on the people they've displaced.
The Palestinians have support from most of the world for obvious reasons, you don't bite the hand that feeds you. it's only a matter of time before our credit runs out and we can't support apartheid any longer, one billion muslims and 90% of world support vs our credit and AIPAC. that worthless piece of real estate will be changing hands again just as it has throughout history.
Stay thirsty my friends
The Paletinians have said they will not come back to the table until Israel halts the ILLEGAL settlements, the jews say if they won't talk they're just going to have to fight them. clever tactic as long as you don't think on it too hard. funny part is a two state solution is far more popular in Israel than it is with the uniformed US population who wants the jews to wage genocide on the people they've displaced.
The Palestinians have support from most of the world for obvious reasons, you don't bite the hand that feeds you. it's only a matter of time before our credit runs out and we can't support apartheid any longer, one billion muslims and 90% of world support vs our credit and AIPAC. that worthless piece of real estate will be changing hands again just as it has throughout history.
Stay thirsty my friends
The problem is not a two state solution. The problem is the Arab spring, Iran and the rest of the Muslim countries want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. There is no good solution to this problem. Israel will defend herself and some day all the Muslim countries will invade and wipe them out. Maybe a red button or two might get pushed.
4
440sixpack
Guest
This started long before last spring, it started when the League of Nations ans England gave the Palestinian homeland to the jews.
If Israel had stuck to the deal the league of Nations ( now the UN ) had made with them we wouldn't be having these problems at our expense.
Those who think Israel is the victim need to explain why Israel keeps building illegal settlements stopping the peace talks. the rest of the world is asking that question so it's about time you did. China and Russia are going to vote to upgrade the palistinians status in the UN, AIPAC will force us to veto it making us even more isolated on this matter. I guess as long as the world loans us money to give Israel it's all good though right?
Stay thirsty my friends
If Israel had stuck to the deal the league of Nations ( now the UN ) had made with them we wouldn't be having these problems at our expense.
Those who think Israel is the victim need to explain why Israel keeps building illegal settlements stopping the peace talks. the rest of the world is asking that question so it's about time you did. China and Russia are going to vote to upgrade the palistinians status in the UN, AIPAC will force us to veto it making us even more isolated on this matter. I guess as long as the world loans us money to give Israel it's all good though right?
Stay thirsty my friends
NeMont
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 12,632
Well, I just say that Hillary was on TV stating our support for Israel is "rock solid".
I think the unspoken fear of this is what Egypt will do. It should be obvious to anyone with a brain that left to themselves Israel and the Palestinians will never come to peace. That means outside forces need to put the pressure. Don't think President Obama is willing to see vast new numbers of Republicans congressman from Florida and New York in the next midterm by selling the Jews down the river. I highly doubt that.
Nemont
I think the unspoken fear of this is what Egypt will do. It should be obvious to anyone with a brain that left to themselves Israel and the Palestinians will never come to peace. That means outside forces need to put the pressure. Don't think President Obama is willing to see vast new numbers of Republicans congressman from Florida and New York in the next midterm by selling the Jews down the river. I highly doubt that.
Nemont
4
440sixpack
Guest
He surely won't, AIPAC rules DC. Our military and checkbook are as Israels disposal everyone knows that. guys like Adelson will spend whatever it takes to buy polticians and keep propaganda in front of those simple enough to suck it up. his investments in Newt and Romney didn't pay off but he's still driving the bus.
There will never be peace between the jews and arabs, but a two state solution is a way to cool it off. the stakes are even higher now that we can't buy Egypt for the jews as easy.
If you're not for a two state solution what is your solution? harsher apartheid or genocide? if you can't fix something you patch it up the best you can and thats the two state solution. the vast majority of both jews and palistinans agree and they want a palestinian state.
Stay thirsty my friends
There will never be peace between the jews and arabs, but a two state solution is a way to cool it off. the stakes are even higher now that we can't buy Egypt for the jews as easy.
If you're not for a two state solution what is your solution? harsher apartheid or genocide? if you can't fix something you patch it up the best you can and thats the two state solution. the vast majority of both jews and palistinans agree and they want a palestinian state.
Stay thirsty my friends
NeMont
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 12,632
LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-12 AT 03:34PM (MST)[p]440,
I never said I opposed the two state solution. Care to bet if Obama follows that course as long as there are rockets being fired into Israel? Regardless there is never going to be a solution because both side are too invested into war rather than peace.
Hamas doesn't have any interest in peace because they are only relevant if Israel is set to invade on a short trip wire. They know that they can bring the world running to the region just by doing what they are doing, firing missiles and having Israel respond.
Israel won't let down it's guard, when Iran et al continue to follow a policy of wiping Israel off the face of the earth. We have no influence with the Muslims and Arabs so the only way to affect anything is bring Israel to heal. I just don't see Obama and Clinton throwing away the American Jewish vote by demanding Israel comply.
http://www.jpost.com/USPresidentialrace/Article.aspx?id=285486
You do realize that far more Jews vote Democrat than there are guys like Adelson dumping their money into politics.
Nemont
I never said I opposed the two state solution. Care to bet if Obama follows that course as long as there are rockets being fired into Israel? Regardless there is never going to be a solution because both side are too invested into war rather than peace.
Hamas doesn't have any interest in peace because they are only relevant if Israel is set to invade on a short trip wire. They know that they can bring the world running to the region just by doing what they are doing, firing missiles and having Israel respond.
Israel won't let down it's guard, when Iran et al continue to follow a policy of wiping Israel off the face of the earth. We have no influence with the Muslims and Arabs so the only way to affect anything is bring Israel to heal. I just don't see Obama and Clinton throwing away the American Jewish vote by demanding Israel comply.
http://www.jpost.com/USPresidentialrace/Article.aspx?id=285486
You do realize that far more Jews vote Democrat than there are guys like Adelson dumping their money into politics.
Nemont
4
440sixpack
Guest
Just because jews vote democrat doesn't mean Adelson isn't buying non thinking voters like most of our resident wingnuts.
Why would the two state solution be of the table at any time? if Israel would stop the illegal building on what would be the other state talks would be going on as we speak.
Hamas would lose it's appeal to the palestinians if serious talks of a palestinian state were on the table. as it is they have nothing to lose Netanyahu wants them dead as do half of the americans. I see no more reason to assume all palestinians subscribe to hamas's goals than that all israelies subscribe to the illegal settlers who desire to eliminate all arabs from Israel.
I have no illiusuion peace with a two state solution will last , but we've tried nothing and it isn't working. give the people who had their land stolen a home and if they won't be Israels fault, then they can bomb them into the next galaxie and nobody could blame them .
Are we really willing to go against the world to support apartheid? that is what is really at issue here. if you disagree make a good argument to the contrary and then tell me how we're going to fund it.
http://rt.com/politics/moscow-israel-palestinians-settlement-ban-809/
Stay thirsty my friends
Why would the two state solution be of the table at any time? if Israel would stop the illegal building on what would be the other state talks would be going on as we speak.
Hamas would lose it's appeal to the palestinians if serious talks of a palestinian state were on the table. as it is they have nothing to lose Netanyahu wants them dead as do half of the americans. I see no more reason to assume all palestinians subscribe to hamas's goals than that all israelies subscribe to the illegal settlers who desire to eliminate all arabs from Israel.
I have no illiusuion peace with a two state solution will last , but we've tried nothing and it isn't working. give the people who had their land stolen a home and if they won't be Israels fault, then they can bomb them into the next galaxie and nobody could blame them .
Are we really willing to go against the world to support apartheid? that is what is really at issue here. if you disagree make a good argument to the contrary and then tell me how we're going to fund it.
http://rt.com/politics/moscow-israel-palestinians-settlement-ban-809/
Stay thirsty my friends
grosventrehunter
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,862
It's Islam that caused Palestinians to hate Jews. Palestinians were originally Christians that converted to Islam over the centuries. Jews have been in what is now Israel, for thousands of years, just like other ethnic groups. Is it because of your hate for Jews and Christians, that you support fanatical Islamist? I'm not saying I support Isreal, however, I would take them, Isreal, over any Islamict state.
440, so how would you feel if Mexico started sending missles into the US? Would you sit back and say it was our fault, since it was ILLEGAL for us to settle here in the first place?
I think you hate Amercia, and no matter what anyone here has to say, besides your puppet, you want to make it an arguement, right wrong, or indifferent. You are one sided, and that side is all yours.
440, so how would you feel if Mexico started sending missles into the US? Would you sit back and say it was our fault, since it was ILLEGAL for us to settle here in the first place?
I think you hate Amercia, and no matter what anyone here has to say, besides your puppet, you want to make it an arguement, right wrong, or indifferent. You are one sided, and that side is all yours.
LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-12 AT 05:24PM (MST)[p]As long as Israel continues to trample on the rights of the Palestinian people, there will always be these tragic flareups. With every Israeli assassination or missile attack, there will be greater rage and resistance not only within the occupied territories but also throughout the Arab and Islamic world.
Time is not on the side of Israel and it's simply a matter of regional demographics before Arab numbers eventually overwhelm Israel and U.S. policy.
Eldorado
Time is not on the side of Israel and it's simply a matter of regional demographics before Arab numbers eventually overwhelm Israel and U.S. policy.
Eldorado
Hamas and their allies continue to amass better and deadlier weapons now capable of reaching deeper into Israel. They certainly have an ally in Egypt and perhaps soon in Syria if the Islamic fundamentalist are able to overthrow that secular government. These are trends that should not only worry Israel but also U.S. policy makers. The neighborhood is changing fast and not for the better.
Eldorado
Eldorado
manny53
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,257
zig your anger is justified...
will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land. Joel 3:2
will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land. Joel 3:2
4
440sixpack
Guest
Enough church crap already Manny.
Why shouldn't we stop asking and start demand Israel halt the illegal settlements so peace talks can resume? I'm not asking what we will do I already knoww that AIPAC has set our tone, I want to know why we shouldn't.
Stay thirsty my friends
Why shouldn't we stop asking and start demand Israel halt the illegal settlements so peace talks can resume? I'm not asking what we will do I already knoww that AIPAC has set our tone, I want to know why we shouldn't.
Stay thirsty my friends
manny53
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,257
LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-12 AT 07:08PM (MST)[p]>Enough church crap already Manny.
>
>Why shouldn't we stop asking and
>start demand Israel halt the
>illegal settlements so peace talks
>can resume? I'm not asking
>what we will do I
>already knoww that AIPAC has
>set our tone, I want
>to know why we shouldn't.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Stay thirsty my friends
hey dude why don't you give up some of your land to those illegals you have work your fields, it only right?...
yah thought so, can you find Israel amongst all those green Muslim nations on the map, its that tiny red dot...this map shows just how retarded your statement are for dividing up Israel...
>
>Why shouldn't we stop asking and
>start demand Israel halt the
>illegal settlements so peace talks
>can resume? I'm not asking
>what we will do I
>already knoww that AIPAC has
>set our tone, I want
>to know why we shouldn't.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Stay thirsty my friends
hey dude why don't you give up some of your land to those illegals you have work your fields, it only right?...
yah thought so, can you find Israel amongst all those green Muslim nations on the map, its that tiny red dot...this map shows just how retarded your statement are for dividing up Israel...
grosventrehunter
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,862
So 440, if Mexico started shooting missles into the U.S. would you sit back and allow it? Would you sit at home and say, well it's our fault for settling what used to be Mexico.
The muslim country's hate us, and it has nothing to do with Isreal. They hate us because we don't have the same beliefs as they do. Everything we stand for they HATE. With that being said, why would you not support a country that has the same enemies as us? In todays world, we need all allies, big or small. Should we agree with everything Isreal does? No, but do you agree with everything your family and friends do? Of course not, but I bet you still support them.
The muslim country's hate us, and it has nothing to do with Isreal. They hate us because we don't have the same beliefs as they do. Everything we stand for they HATE. With that being said, why would you not support a country that has the same enemies as us? In todays world, we need all allies, big or small. Should we agree with everything Isreal does? No, but do you agree with everything your family and friends do? Of course not, but I bet you still support them.
manny53
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,257
LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-12 AT 11:18PM (MST)[p]>Manny, even most Israeli's subscribe to
>a 2 state solution. Exiling
>every Palestinian is not the
>answer but establishing a viable
>Palestinian state, side by side
>with Israel, is the only
>solution to resolving this long
>and vexing problem.
>
>Eldorado
if you go back enough in history, which the bible is a classic example of how this fight started, you'll see the Palestinians have zero right to that ground on which Israel sits....
so tell me, if your dad gave you a 12ga. shotgun but gave your brother nothing And your brother saw your 12ga. and then years later your brother demanded you give him your 12ga. claiming it was supposed to be his after all, would you give it up...
lets talk a more recent history for a second, when Israel was vast waste land, and it was, no Palestinians wanted it, but once the Jews wanted it back and made the land bloom again they decided it was rightfully there's, there is no historical deed placing the Palestinians in or around Israel, they were outcast from their own Arabian brothers, do a search on their history go farther back then CNN has taken you?
>a 2 state solution. Exiling
>every Palestinian is not the
>answer but establishing a viable
>Palestinian state, side by side
>with Israel, is the only
>solution to resolving this long
>and vexing problem.
>
>Eldorado
if you go back enough in history, which the bible is a classic example of how this fight started, you'll see the Palestinians have zero right to that ground on which Israel sits....
so tell me, if your dad gave you a 12ga. shotgun but gave your brother nothing And your brother saw your 12ga. and then years later your brother demanded you give him your 12ga. claiming it was supposed to be his after all, would you give it up...
lets talk a more recent history for a second, when Israel was vast waste land, and it was, no Palestinians wanted it, but once the Jews wanted it back and made the land bloom again they decided it was rightfully there's, there is no historical deed placing the Palestinians in or around Israel, they were outcast from their own Arabian brothers, do a search on their history go farther back then CNN has taken you?
T
triggerman308
Guest
#1 The Israeli settlements are not illegal. They are settling on land that was initially theirs before the diaspora.
#2 There is no real ethnic group called the Palestinians. It is nothing more than a muslim ploy to take anything they can from Israel because...they hate them and want them dead, all of them. Wiping Israel from the face of the map would be genocide, right 440!
#2 There is no real ethnic group called the Palestinians. It is nothing more than a muslim ploy to take anything they can from Israel because...they hate them and want them dead, all of them. Wiping Israel from the face of the map would be genocide, right 440!
fireball77
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,057
Hey eldo, since you're so much smarter than the rest of us, can you please expound for a paragraph or two on why Hamas would put missile launch sites near religious points, day cares, ect.?
The Palestinian people also have a strong and equal claim to the land and only a 2 state solution will bring peace to the 2 sides.
Historical footnote:
Many Jews left the land after the destruction of the 1st Temple (586 BCE and considered part of the diaspora) yet, the Palestinian people continued to live on the land until the majority were evicted by force of arms with the creation of Israel (1948).
Israel reaped immense financial backing with its creation being able to develop with continued U.S. largess (subsidized principally by the American tax payer).
Eldorado
Historical footnote:
Many Jews left the land after the destruction of the 1st Temple (586 BCE and considered part of the diaspora) yet, the Palestinian people continued to live on the land until the majority were evicted by force of arms with the creation of Israel (1948).
Israel reaped immense financial backing with its creation being able to develop with continued U.S. largess (subsidized principally by the American tax payer).
Eldorado
4
440sixpack
Guest
Interesting, using the logic around here since jews inhabited the region 2000 years ago it belongs to them and the arabs can shove it, yet the aboriginals who had this land 200 years ago have no claim so they can shove it. obvious bias you could try harder .
Manny does it matter how much muslim land is around palestine? mexicans are 99% christians so are you saying ya'all come up here fellow christians we want you? what a stupid thing to say, they don't have a homeland just because they're muslim. by the way, 4% of the palestinians you want to see die are christian. are the muslim nations supposed to give them an invite too?
The settlements are illegal, there is no defense you can use to support any claim otherwise. Israel is in violation of more mandates than any nation on earth, we can only protect them so long. a peace deal may not cure the problem but no deal guarantees Israels destruction it's only a matter of time.
Manny does it matter how much muslim land is around palestine? mexicans are 99% christians so are you saying ya'all come up here fellow christians we want you? what a stupid thing to say, they don't have a homeland just because they're muslim. by the way, 4% of the palestinians you want to see die are christian. are the muslim nations supposed to give them an invite too?
The settlements are illegal, there is no defense you can use to support any claim otherwise. Israel is in violation of more mandates than any nation on earth, we can only protect them so long. a peace deal may not cure the problem but no deal guarantees Israels destruction it's only a matter of time.
RELH
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 17,483
Why are the settlements illegal? Is it because some mandate says so. Did not Israel capture that territory after being attacked by Egypt and Syria and kicked their butts and took that land by force of arms.
You notice that the other Arab countries are not offering to prepare a state for those people in their country as they do not want them also.
RELH
You notice that the other Arab countries are not offering to prepare a state for those people in their country as they do not want them also.
RELH
Z
ZIGGER
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Nov-22-12 AT 11:47AM (MST)[p]maybe Jordan could pony up a little of Palistine for a "state"....
Z
ZIGGER
Guest
>The creation of Israel was a
>land grab by the West
>to impose among the Arabs
>a colony to oversee western
>interests. Pure and simple. The
>region as a consequence continues
>to suffer because of this
>heavy handed manipulation.
>
>Eldorado
lol....you are such a tool.
>land grab by the West
>to impose among the Arabs
>a colony to oversee western
>interests. Pure and simple. The
>region as a consequence continues
>to suffer because of this
>heavy handed manipulation.
>
>Eldorado
lol....you are such a tool.
manny53
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,257
>The creation of Israel was a
>land grab by the West
>to impose among the Arabs
>a colony to oversee western
>interests. Pure and simple. The
>region as a consequence continues
>to suffer because of this
>heavy handed manipulation.
>
>Eldorado
again you should do a search beyound CNN... you'll see Syria pushed the Palistinians out because they were looked upon as theives and scum, i didn't say it they did, till some one had a good idea hey" I know lets claim israel as our home land...
September 1970 is known as the Black September (Arabic: أيلول الأسود aylūl al-aswad) in Arab history and It was a month when Hashemite King Hussein of Jordan moved to quash the militancy of Palestinian organizations and restore his monarchy's rule over the country. The violence resulted in the deaths of thousands of people, the vast majority Palestinian.[3] Armed conflict lasted until July 1971 with the expulsion of the Palestine Liberation Organisation and thousands of Palestinian fighters to Lebanon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan
>land grab by the West
>to impose among the Arabs
>a colony to oversee western
>interests. Pure and simple. The
>region as a consequence continues
>to suffer because of this
>heavy handed manipulation.
>
>Eldorado
again you should do a search beyound CNN... you'll see Syria pushed the Palistinians out because they were looked upon as theives and scum, i didn't say it they did, till some one had a good idea hey" I know lets claim israel as our home land...
September 1970 is known as the Black September (Arabic: أيلول الأسود aylūl al-aswad) in Arab history and It was a month when Hashemite King Hussein of Jordan moved to quash the militancy of Palestinian organizations and restore his monarchy's rule over the country. The violence resulted in the deaths of thousands of people, the vast majority Palestinian.[3] Armed conflict lasted until July 1971 with the expulsion of the Palestine Liberation Organisation and thousands of Palestinian fighters to Lebanon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan
T
triggerman308
Guest
You can't have a discussion about this topic with someone who has no knowledge or refuses to acknowledge the history of Israel or the region before 1948. This would include a few select individuals on this board.
B
BomberBlackies
Guest
I'm sure the select few individuals you are talkng about are the ones that are either educated idiots or have a DEEP desire for our POTUS.
4
440sixpack
Guest
Explain why jews from around the world are the rightful owner of Israel and the people we displaced so they could have it have no rights whatsoever. enough of your slanthead BS just answer the question.
Israel would not exist if not for the generosity of the UK, the USA and the UN . so given that absolute fact again explain why they have no obligation to follow any mandates .
The US devotion to Israel is on a downtrend, but not nearly as fast as the rest of the world. we can thank AIPAC and how well they've bought pom pom girl cheerleaders like our clowns here for that.
Israel will cooperate or die it's just a matter of time.
http://21stcenturysocialism.com/art...c_opinion_hardening_against_israel_02051.html
Stay thirsty my friends
Israel would not exist if not for the generosity of the UK, the USA and the UN . so given that absolute fact again explain why they have no obligation to follow any mandates .
The US devotion to Israel is on a downtrend, but not nearly as fast as the rest of the world. we can thank AIPAC and how well they've bought pom pom girl cheerleaders like our clowns here for that.
Israel will cooperate or die it's just a matter of time.
http://21stcenturysocialism.com/art...c_opinion_hardening_against_israel_02051.html
Stay thirsty my friends
Israel was put on notice that Hamas has the capacity and staying power to inflict sufficient economic and military losses that invading Gaza would be cost prohibitive. Hamas' performance was no doubt a shock for Israel and will affect future policy towards the Palestinians and especially how Hamas is dealt with.
The tide is turning were the Palestinians now have the means and ability to deal heavy blows against their tormentors. The hope is that Israel will learn from this bitter experience and begin to come to the realization that the Palestinians must be engaged as equals if there is to be peace.
Eldorado
The tide is turning were the Palestinians now have the means and ability to deal heavy blows against their tormentors. The hope is that Israel will learn from this bitter experience and begin to come to the realization that the Palestinians must be engaged as equals if there is to be peace.
Eldorado
4
440sixpack
Guest
I think you're correct. Israel has kept up the illegal settlements to eliminate any chance of peace talks and it's clear the policy has backfired.
The Palestinians are gaining credibility and Israel is losing it. when said we'd veto the palestinian upgrade at the UN it removed any doubt as to who's got us by the short hairs . small wonder why Netanyahu and Obama are peeing themselves and China and Russia are laughing as the next round comes up, Palestine will get recognized and we can't stop it. not the staus they were shooting for but that will come.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/france-indicates-support-palestinian-u-n-vote-182957968.html
Stay thirsty my friends
The Palestinians are gaining credibility and Israel is losing it. when said we'd veto the palestinian upgrade at the UN it removed any doubt as to who's got us by the short hairs . small wonder why Netanyahu and Obama are peeing themselves and China and Russia are laughing as the next round comes up, Palestine will get recognized and we can't stop it. not the staus they were shooting for but that will come.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/france-indicates-support-palestinian-u-n-vote-182957968.html
Stay thirsty my friends
T
triggerman308
Guest
"Israel would not exist if not for the UK, USA, and the UN."
440 continues to fail to recognize that Israel existed long before 1948. Long before the diaspora, at which time the muslim jew haters sought to move in on the Israeli territory and claim it for themselves. So where did these Palestinians come from? The neighboring countries surrounding Israel thats where. Which in essence makes them Lebanese, Syrian, Jordanian, and any number of ancient muslim civilizations that existed in that area during the time of the diaspora. There is no ethnic group called Palestinians.
All Israel wanted was to settle back on the land that was theirs to start with. A small sliver of land smack in the middle of a muslim world that is easily 100 times the size of Israel. Yet the muslims are so eat up with hate and the want for genocide of the Israeli people, they'll never let it die.
440 is either stupid, ignorant of the whole issue, or maybe its just plain anti semitic hate!
440 continues to fail to recognize that Israel existed long before 1948. Long before the diaspora, at which time the muslim jew haters sought to move in on the Israeli territory and claim it for themselves. So where did these Palestinians come from? The neighboring countries surrounding Israel thats where. Which in essence makes them Lebanese, Syrian, Jordanian, and any number of ancient muslim civilizations that existed in that area during the time of the diaspora. There is no ethnic group called Palestinians.
All Israel wanted was to settle back on the land that was theirs to start with. A small sliver of land smack in the middle of a muslim world that is easily 100 times the size of Israel. Yet the muslims are so eat up with hate and the want for genocide of the Israeli people, they'll never let it die.
440 is either stupid, ignorant of the whole issue, or maybe its just plain anti semitic hate!
Z
ZIGGER
Guest
lol....where does that leave eldorko???
How is it anti-semitic when it is official U.S. policy or that a majority of Israelis subscribe to a 2 state solution as part of a comprehensive Middle East peace?
Looks like some of you are either tools or simply stupid. I'm more inclined to believe the latter.
Eldorado
Looks like some of you are either tools or simply stupid. I'm more inclined to believe the latter.
Eldorado
4
440sixpack
Guest
Trigger your ignorance on this issue is as grand as everthing else you think you know.
What basis are you using to define the boundries of Israel and Palstine, or in your case the denial palestine ever existed? and what right does any religion have to it outside of a UN agreement? the israelies are nothing more than jews from everywhere in the world, hell why not give the Branch Dividians a nation they're a religious based sect? I'd gladly give up Texas.
That land has been ruled by nearly every empire in the world at one time including the Romans. more recently the Ottomans who lost it to England who gave it to the league of nations to give to the jews who are not following the agreement. what gives you the right to decide the isrealites are the one who it really belonged to the whole time so everyone else make like a cow pie? what a moron.
Israel exists do the the good graces of the world and at the Palestinians expense. there is no other possible way to look at the situation than to say Israel is biting the hand that feeds them. it's also illogical to think it can go on forever with only hatemonger idiots like you wanting to borrow money to sustain it.
Stay thirsty my friends
What basis are you using to define the boundries of Israel and Palstine, or in your case the denial palestine ever existed? and what right does any religion have to it outside of a UN agreement? the israelies are nothing more than jews from everywhere in the world, hell why not give the Branch Dividians a nation they're a religious based sect? I'd gladly give up Texas.
That land has been ruled by nearly every empire in the world at one time including the Romans. more recently the Ottomans who lost it to England who gave it to the league of nations to give to the jews who are not following the agreement. what gives you the right to decide the isrealites are the one who it really belonged to the whole time so everyone else make like a cow pie? what a moron.
Israel exists do the the good graces of the world and at the Palestinians expense. there is no other possible way to look at the situation than to say Israel is biting the hand that feeds them. it's also illogical to think it can go on forever with only hatemonger idiots like you wanting to borrow money to sustain it.
Stay thirsty my friends
Eldorado, I think you may have slightly underestimated the power of Israel's military. In some regards there is truth to what you say but given your lack of understanding about the arms of Israel understand this they could level Hamas & Gaza in less than one week still not touch things in their arsenal. Don't think for a minute all conflicts going forward will be fought on terrorists terms at some point the big toys will come out and collateral damage won't matter and on that basis, they are a super power in the region.
You don't need nuclear weapons to level Gaza and if you think the ragheads over there don't know that think again. Israel has developed and sold military hardware for decades. In fact quite a few guys on here have Kimbers & other brands that were designed by an Israeli who was an accomplished marksmen in his own right. Gaza exists because of world pressure and the ones foolishly thinking they have power are the guys driving around shooting rockets out of the beds of beat up trucks, or dragging bodies behind motorcycles, not the guys taking out targets with multiple systems.
They had weapons systems over 20 years ago that were more advanced than anything in Gaza today so while they're making peace it isn't out of fear from Gaza. They may be small but they stand tall for a reason and that rests solely on the capability of their military strength. What's stopped them from being overrun to this point? It certainly isn't numbers is it. These guys stare death in the face every single day, so I don't think a bunch of uneducated extremist's will deter their will to live or control them as you suspect. If you think a couple of hang gliders and some RPG's strapped on will make Israel quake in fear, understand in Gaza, they don't have anyone capable of flying such a formidable aircraft let alone be able to figure out how to actually hit their intended target, contrary to what the press reports. So while you think it's over it's just another chapter in a ongoing novel of hatred.
You don't need nuclear weapons to level Gaza and if you think the ragheads over there don't know that think again. Israel has developed and sold military hardware for decades. In fact quite a few guys on here have Kimbers & other brands that were designed by an Israeli who was an accomplished marksmen in his own right. Gaza exists because of world pressure and the ones foolishly thinking they have power are the guys driving around shooting rockets out of the beds of beat up trucks, or dragging bodies behind motorcycles, not the guys taking out targets with multiple systems.
They had weapons systems over 20 years ago that were more advanced than anything in Gaza today so while they're making peace it isn't out of fear from Gaza. They may be small but they stand tall for a reason and that rests solely on the capability of their military strength. What's stopped them from being overrun to this point? It certainly isn't numbers is it. These guys stare death in the face every single day, so I don't think a bunch of uneducated extremist's will deter their will to live or control them as you suspect. If you think a couple of hang gliders and some RPG's strapped on will make Israel quake in fear, understand in Gaza, they don't have anyone capable of flying such a formidable aircraft let alone be able to figure out how to actually hit their intended target, contrary to what the press reports. So while you think it's over it's just another chapter in a ongoing novel of hatred.
Where was the vaunted Israeli ground invasion that Netanyahu was threatening Hamas with? It never came because Israel knew that Hamas was waiting with better and more sophisticated weapons capable of knocking out many of Israel's tanks and helicopters. Israel in the end would be forced to leave with its military prestige in ruins and Hamas still entrenched.
Eldorado
Eldorado
Israel's large conventional army would be neutralized in the heavy residential zones of Gaza making their troops and tanks easy targets to highly disciplined and well armed Hamas units. Israel's vaunted air force, especially its helicopters, would be kept at bay with the numerous MANPADS in Hamas' arsenal making ground support practically difficult to nearly impossible.
Even if Gaza were flattened, there would be enough military infrastructure surviving for Hamas to continue fighting. It would be the worst nightmare that Israel could envision and possibly experience. This is why Hillary rushed to the area to arrange a quick truce realizing the danger that Israel and U.S. interests faced.
Eldorado
Even if Gaza were flattened, there would be enough military infrastructure surviving for Hamas to continue fighting. It would be the worst nightmare that Israel could envision and possibly experience. This is why Hillary rushed to the area to arrange a quick truce realizing the danger that Israel and U.S. interests faced.
Eldorado
4
440sixpack
Guest
Anyone who thinks the world will sit by as Israel practices genocide is delusional, no matter how much you'd like it.
Stay thirsty my friends
Stay thirsty my friends
4
440sixpack
Guest
Check this out dipshyts, he's talking about you. 22 years in the CIA and a Ron Paul supporter. WTF huh?
Stay thirsty my friends
Stay thirsty my friends
T
triggerman308
Guest
440, using your twisted sense of logic, no group of people anywhere has the rightful claim to any piece of land. It simply doesn't work that way. The Israeli/ Muslim struggle has been going on for thousands of years before we the USA, the UN, or any other recent authority thought itself high and mighty enough to dictate a mandate.
I think we all see who the ignorant moron is here, and thats you 440! This could all be solved if the muslim jew haters would leave Israel alone and go back to whatever neighboring jew hater nation their ancestors came from. Israel only acts when provoked. But we know this will never happen because the muslims will never stop until Israel ceases to exist, and since you support this cause, it makes you a supporter of genocide. Its funny how we go for months never hearing of any unrest in the region, but it always seems to flair up with the jew haters and their supporters attacking Israel first with rockets and car bombs. Then we have to listen to jew hating bleeding hearts like you whining about getting your azzes handed to you by little old Israel. Pathetic. You want peace...leave Israel alone and go back to where you came from. But that will never happen because its really not about some little strip of disputed land. The real goal of your people 440, is the complete extermination of an ethnic group of people.
I think we all see who the ignorant moron is here, and thats you 440! This could all be solved if the muslim jew haters would leave Israel alone and go back to whatever neighboring jew hater nation their ancestors came from. Israel only acts when provoked. But we know this will never happen because the muslims will never stop until Israel ceases to exist, and since you support this cause, it makes you a supporter of genocide. Its funny how we go for months never hearing of any unrest in the region, but it always seems to flair up with the jew haters and their supporters attacking Israel first with rockets and car bombs. Then we have to listen to jew hating bleeding hearts like you whining about getting your azzes handed to you by little old Israel. Pathetic. You want peace...leave Israel alone and go back to where you came from. But that will never happen because its really not about some little strip of disputed land. The real goal of your people 440, is the complete extermination of an ethnic group of people.
T
triggerman308
Guest
Is anyone else amuzed as I am with 440 and his daily show of intellectual superiority over the rest of us mere mortals. The constant air of some kind of higher level of enlightenment and understanding of the issues that the rest of us just can't quite grasp. Talking down to the rest of us like some wise old oracle, scolding a bunch of children for our lack of understanding. Much too enlightened to believe in some creator or higher being.
All I can do is shake my head and laugh. Thanks for keeping us entertained 440. Were it not for tools like you, life would be much less amuzing!
All I can do is shake my head and laugh. Thanks for keeping us entertained 440. Were it not for tools like you, life would be much less amuzing!
4
440sixpack
Guest
Trigger you're either not as educated as you claim or you deserve a refund. if you can't spell amusing without a Z it's no wonder you can't understand history.
You think I'm talking down to you because you're too ignorant to talk on an adult level, that's not my fault I'm an adult. if you're not Sesame Street probably has a forum you'd feel more comfortable with.
Is it your religion that forces denial and hatred like with Manny or has AIPAC done that good of number on you? well done is all I can say, you pull that antisemite card like a pro.
I'm not sure Israel will fall in my lifetime but I'm sure I'll see our devotion and funding to them fall off and a Palestinian state formed. that's all you can ask.
Stay thirsty my friends
You think I'm talking down to you because you're too ignorant to talk on an adult level, that's not my fault I'm an adult. if you're not Sesame Street probably has a forum you'd feel more comfortable with.
Is it your religion that forces denial and hatred like with Manny or has AIPAC done that good of number on you? well done is all I can say, you pull that antisemite card like a pro.
I'm not sure Israel will fall in my lifetime but I'm sure I'll see our devotion and funding to them fall off and a Palestinian state formed. that's all you can ask.
Stay thirsty my friends
Z
ZIGGER
Guest
"In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man"
4
440sixpack
Guest
Your goal as dictated to you by AIPAC is to keep the palestinians poor and helpless so you can call them worthless savages. who cares about savages right? they have no money or home and they smell bad. unfortunetly unlike in america the savages in Israel have will china and russia to arm them.
What you wouldn't give for some pox blankets right now huh? those little kids look cold after their shacks were bombed.
Stay thirsty my friends
What you wouldn't give for some pox blankets right now huh? those little kids look cold after their shacks were bombed.
Stay thirsty my friends
Z
ZIGGER
Guest
good idea.....did your granny save any??
4
440sixpack
Guest
I rest my case.
Stay thirsty my friends
Stay thirsty my friends
T
triggerman308
Guest
Wooooo! I didn't spell a word correctly. Damn! I'm sure your high and mighty self never committed that error.
So now you're the adult and everyone who doesn't agree with you is a child that you have to talk down to and set straight. I guess because you're much wiser and more enlightened than we intellectual children.
I REST MY CASE!!! 440, you're just a pompous self absorbed pr!ck.
Maybe one day you can teach us all that trick of how you blow smoke up your own azz!
So now you're the adult and everyone who doesn't agree with you is a child that you have to talk down to and set straight. I guess because you're much wiser and more enlightened than we intellectual children.
I REST MY CASE!!! 440, you're just a pompous self absorbed pr!ck.
Maybe one day you can teach us all that trick of how you blow smoke up your own azz!
T
triggerman308
Guest
"the israelies are nothing more than jews from everywhere in the world..."
Lesson #1 for 440...it's Israelis, learn how to spell it correctly and capitalize the I.
Lesson #2 for the enlightened one. You make a comparrison between the jews and the Branch davidians as mere religious sects. There is a difference between the Jewish religion and the Jewish as an ethnic group. It would probably be safe to say that a possible majority of jews do not practice the jewish religion, or are at least not strong adherrants of the faith. Also, you harping on AIPAC is like listening to piper complain about the rich. Amusing (did I spell it right) and annoying at the same time.
Apparently your lack of comprehension of the history of Israel before 1948 has left you a little short sighted in this discission. If you need any more help in the matter, I'm sure many on this board will be willing to help you out.
Lesson #1 for 440...it's Israelis, learn how to spell it correctly and capitalize the I.
Lesson #2 for the enlightened one. You make a comparrison between the jews and the Branch davidians as mere religious sects. There is a difference between the Jewish religion and the Jewish as an ethnic group. It would probably be safe to say that a possible majority of jews do not practice the jewish religion, or are at least not strong adherrants of the faith. Also, you harping on AIPAC is like listening to piper complain about the rich. Amusing (did I spell it right) and annoying at the same time.
Apparently your lack of comprehension of the history of Israel before 1948 has left you a little short sighted in this discission. If you need any more help in the matter, I'm sure many on this board will be willing to help you out.
T
triggerman308
Guest
Ask any educated muslim what their claim to Jerusalem is and they will tell you that... Jerusalem has always been muslim.
This question is for 440. Since Jerusalem existed for centuries before Christ, and Mohammad and Islam didn't come to be til around 632 AD, how is it possible that Jerusalem has always been muslim?
Muslim claim to the Holy Land is nothing more than a lie. A lie created with the goal of taking everything the jews have and with the eventual goal of exterminating the entire race of the Jewish people, i.e. genocide. 440's support of the Palestinian cause is no more than a support of genocide. Didn't think it was possible for someone who claims to be as enlightened and educated as 440sixpack to support something as barbaric as ethnic extermination. But hey, we can all read the writing on the wall.
The Palestinians are no nore than a small cog in the big Islamic machine, with their end goal of exterminating the jewish ethnic group from the face of the earth.
This question is for 440. Since Jerusalem existed for centuries before Christ, and Mohammad and Islam didn't come to be til around 632 AD, how is it possible that Jerusalem has always been muslim?
Muslim claim to the Holy Land is nothing more than a lie. A lie created with the goal of taking everything the jews have and with the eventual goal of exterminating the entire race of the Jewish people, i.e. genocide. 440's support of the Palestinian cause is no more than a support of genocide. Didn't think it was possible for someone who claims to be as enlightened and educated as 440sixpack to support something as barbaric as ethnic extermination. But hey, we can all read the writing on the wall.
The Palestinians are no nore than a small cog in the big Islamic machine, with their end goal of exterminating the jewish ethnic group from the face of the earth.
Eldorado, maybe you need a map to look at how poor a strategic position Gaza is in. The Israeli's could merely blockade the border with Egypt and cut them off from supplies. Then with an aerial assault drive them to the sea. Egypt can't match Israel's air superiority and would pose little threat to them and a few bombs on the earthen Aswan dam and Egypt's drowning. The threat of that will shut Morsi's big mouth! Gaza can't pose any threat to them from the air so given that they could use that as an advantage could simply start to disable them and push them toward the sea at will. The infrastructure you thought an advantage would merely serve to support their military advantage as they bomb it and set it ablaze to show Hamas how powerless they really are. Then they could resort to making crispy critters out of the ground forces that inhabit the ruins to demoralize the troops even further. Nothing like watching a few hundred guys burn before your eyes to show you what fate awaits you if you don't surrender. Given the immense training and discipline of Hamas that should really empower the hell out of them to give up or flee. They have no armor and little to no effective weaponry that Israel can't see with their technology and with dwindling supplies the end result will be the same as before and Israel will win.
Given that military folks have long known about Israel's military advantage in the region it's quite interesting to hear your take on the matter. Given that Israel has worked with us and the Britts to develop some of the most advanced technology in the world It's amusing to hear you think they're so over classed by some ragheads that can't adjust a scope on a rifle let alone figure out how to mount an offensive to overwhelm one of the strongest military forces in the region. If you honestly think Israel is afraid you are misinformed and you don't have to risk ground forces when you can obliterate your enemy from the air. Look at what we did in the first desert storm to an organized well trained military force and Hamas can't hold a candle to the Iraqis. Check & mate it's over with very few losses on the Israeli side and they didn't even bring the big toys out to play.
You believe what you want but we knew things were going to escalate and while we are protecting our interest ( you're correct on that) it wasn't those little Jewish boys that didn't understand who held the power. Sadat, Hussein, Gadhaffi, Mubarek, and Assad all left them alone wonder what they knew that caused them to stay away and let them live in peace. Maybe that's something you may want to ponder a bit and maybe you'll figure out why. They all had bigger military machines yet left them alone...... yet Hamas is a threat...... really it just doesn't add up wonder why?
Given that military folks have long known about Israel's military advantage in the region it's quite interesting to hear your take on the matter. Given that Israel has worked with us and the Britts to develop some of the most advanced technology in the world It's amusing to hear you think they're so over classed by some ragheads that can't adjust a scope on a rifle let alone figure out how to mount an offensive to overwhelm one of the strongest military forces in the region. If you honestly think Israel is afraid you are misinformed and you don't have to risk ground forces when you can obliterate your enemy from the air. Look at what we did in the first desert storm to an organized well trained military force and Hamas can't hold a candle to the Iraqis. Check & mate it's over with very few losses on the Israeli side and they didn't even bring the big toys out to play.
You believe what you want but we knew things were going to escalate and while we are protecting our interest ( you're correct on that) it wasn't those little Jewish boys that didn't understand who held the power. Sadat, Hussein, Gadhaffi, Mubarek, and Assad all left them alone wonder what they knew that caused them to stay away and let them live in peace. Maybe that's something you may want to ponder a bit and maybe you'll figure out why. They all had bigger military machines yet left them alone...... yet Hamas is a threat...... really it just doesn't add up wonder why?
Cornhusker
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,899
Trigger you read like your pretty worked up, perhaps you should check your blood pressure.
Eldorado, Here's a couple more things to ponder:
1) Why would Israel show the world aerial footage of them killing the head of Hamas in a moving vehicle and reveal their capability?
2) Why would Israel show the world that their Iron dome defense system can take down enemy very small incoming missiles with pretty reliable effectiveness? What impact would that system have on aircraft?
Now that you've pondered this why don't you ask yourself why & to whom this message is meant for. Then factor in the fact that Israel has larger weapons delivery systems than those used in their Iron Dome weapons and has had for years, Think they may be telling Iran something and sending the Muslim Brotherhood a message...... something to the effect that we can take you out on the road and in your homes while you sleep and in your well defended palaces 24/7. Think the Ayotollah and the midget Ahmadinejad and the other powers in region can fathom a message this clear and concise. See Israel doesn't fear them because they have the power to destroy them and have had that for years yet they are forced to remind the idiots from time to time that they can extinguish their feeble little existence anytime they
choose. Now maybe you can begin to understand just what Hillary reminded them of and why they're suddenly so compelled to talk about peace. Maybe it's time for Iran to heed the warning, hopefully they're a little better informed and can visualize things better than you.
1) Why would Israel show the world aerial footage of them killing the head of Hamas in a moving vehicle and reveal their capability?
2) Why would Israel show the world that their Iron dome defense system can take down enemy very small incoming missiles with pretty reliable effectiveness? What impact would that system have on aircraft?
Now that you've pondered this why don't you ask yourself why & to whom this message is meant for. Then factor in the fact that Israel has larger weapons delivery systems than those used in their Iron Dome weapons and has had for years, Think they may be telling Iran something and sending the Muslim Brotherhood a message...... something to the effect that we can take you out on the road and in your homes while you sleep and in your well defended palaces 24/7. Think the Ayotollah and the midget Ahmadinejad and the other powers in region can fathom a message this clear and concise. See Israel doesn't fear them because they have the power to destroy them and have had that for years yet they are forced to remind the idiots from time to time that they can extinguish their feeble little existence anytime they
choose. Now maybe you can begin to understand just what Hillary reminded them of and why they're suddenly so compelled to talk about peace. Maybe it's time for Iran to heed the warning, hopefully they're a little better informed and can visualize things better than you.
Continue to believe in the hype of Israeli invincibility. Lebanon 2006 and now Gaza 2012 have shown the limits of Israeli power. No longer can Israel deal pain without itself feeling that same pain. The game has totally changed and failure to understand and accept its tactical and strategic ramifications will only doom Israel and the region to more death and destruction.
Side Note: Iron Dome is extremely expensive and hardly efficient given that hundreds of Hamas' missiles were able to reach their targets.
Given that Israel was unable to defeat the smaller arsenals of Hezbollah or Hamas how does it expect to defeat a more sizable and sophisticated Iranian military without U.S. assistance?
Eldorado
Side Note: Iron Dome is extremely expensive and hardly efficient given that hundreds of Hamas' missiles were able to reach their targets.
Given that Israel was unable to defeat the smaller arsenals of Hezbollah or Hamas how does it expect to defeat a more sizable and sophisticated Iranian military without U.S. assistance?
Eldorado
Eldorado, the only reason their powers are limited is because they aren't using their full capability. They had the bomb long before China and multiple delivery systems that work. Since Iran hates them and wants to eliminate them from the face of the earth and the enrichment program is gaining ground how much restraint do you think they'll use at some point. They are showing all this as a deterrent and hoping to get Iran to stand down. Hopefully it will work but if not we're probably going to go to war again.
You're being naive here thinking that Israel couldn't neutralize any threats from those terrorist organizations. They've been down this road many times before and they know full well the costs involved and each time they prevailed and against superior numbers (and they do have a huge advantage with weapons). I was in the defense industry for many years and they had just about every toy our special forces had and many were of their own design and pretty much had the green light to buy anything they wanted from the state department one of only a few country's that could. That's a lot of capability and those are just small toys with pinpoint accuracy and destruction capability in the scheme of things when they have so much more in their arsenal. Hamas and Hezbollah don't have anything that comes close to that and never will because the arms community know what they are and they can't buy top shelf weapons that could be used against the sellers in the future. I've been retired for a while but that will never change in arms sales. You never arm a potential enemy to be your equal, you always want to have the advantage you can exploit in anything you sell.
I've been over there more than a few times and that's why I used the first desert storm as a reference. They didn't have any issues paying their bills Eldorado and the money on Iron Dome is a drop in the bucket. There are many extremely rich people here that wouldn't hesitate for a second to write checks that you wouldn't believe if Israel needed some money and 50-100 million at a pop. They build things that are on the leading edge of technology and have for decades. They buy armor and other systems that aren't cost effective to produce and install their systems if needed.
Terrorist warfare and military warfare are two different things and Iran will be subjected to a military war, if it gets to that, if for nothing else to serve as a future deterrent to anybody else that thinks they can threaten the world and to bring them to their knees and set them back decades.
That enrichment site will be taken out one way or the other and hopefully it's done in such a way that we don't get involved in another war and they can make some pinpoint hits to eliminate targets of opportunity and hard targets to alleviate the threat.
Hamas attacked them with hundreds of rockets and the world knows it and Iran is threatening them & supplying weapons and that has been well documented many times over..... So tell me in the eyes of the world, think those Israeli's won't garner support for their cause......
Let's hope the sanctions or surgical route prevails if not we're going to be going to war or perhaps Israel will decide to show the world just how much power they really wield and Iran will learn just how poisonous & deadly mushrooms can be even when they're not the biggest ones you have. Bet they'd leave them alone after that wouldn't they and if Obama doesn't wise up that option may be the one they use. He better step up and get it done or they will.
You're being naive here thinking that Israel couldn't neutralize any threats from those terrorist organizations. They've been down this road many times before and they know full well the costs involved and each time they prevailed and against superior numbers (and they do have a huge advantage with weapons). I was in the defense industry for many years and they had just about every toy our special forces had and many were of their own design and pretty much had the green light to buy anything they wanted from the state department one of only a few country's that could. That's a lot of capability and those are just small toys with pinpoint accuracy and destruction capability in the scheme of things when they have so much more in their arsenal. Hamas and Hezbollah don't have anything that comes close to that and never will because the arms community know what they are and they can't buy top shelf weapons that could be used against the sellers in the future. I've been retired for a while but that will never change in arms sales. You never arm a potential enemy to be your equal, you always want to have the advantage you can exploit in anything you sell.
I've been over there more than a few times and that's why I used the first desert storm as a reference. They didn't have any issues paying their bills Eldorado and the money on Iron Dome is a drop in the bucket. There are many extremely rich people here that wouldn't hesitate for a second to write checks that you wouldn't believe if Israel needed some money and 50-100 million at a pop. They build things that are on the leading edge of technology and have for decades. They buy armor and other systems that aren't cost effective to produce and install their systems if needed.
Terrorist warfare and military warfare are two different things and Iran will be subjected to a military war, if it gets to that, if for nothing else to serve as a future deterrent to anybody else that thinks they can threaten the world and to bring them to their knees and set them back decades.
That enrichment site will be taken out one way or the other and hopefully it's done in such a way that we don't get involved in another war and they can make some pinpoint hits to eliminate targets of opportunity and hard targets to alleviate the threat.
Hamas attacked them with hundreds of rockets and the world knows it and Iran is threatening them & supplying weapons and that has been well documented many times over..... So tell me in the eyes of the world, think those Israeli's won't garner support for their cause......
Let's hope the sanctions or surgical route prevails if not we're going to be going to war or perhaps Israel will decide to show the world just how much power they really wield and Iran will learn just how poisonous & deadly mushrooms can be even when they're not the biggest ones you have. Bet they'd leave them alone after that wouldn't they and if Obama doesn't wise up that option may be the one they use. He better step up and get it done or they will.
4
440sixpack
Guest
Trigger for all your ranting you answered nothing.
The jews have no claim on that land whatsoever beyond what the UN gave them, your claim just because jews once lived there makes it thiers is simply moronic.
If we have no provision in our constitution as to which religion is the religion which governs us how can we set as foreign policy which religion we will place on a particular region as ruler? to make it simple for you, how did we decide Israel belongs to jews and jews alone?
Religion is not a criteria for nation building in our constitution so it shouldn't be in our foreign policy either. Capishe ?
Stay thirsty my friends
The jews have no claim on that land whatsoever beyond what the UN gave them, your claim just because jews once lived there makes it thiers is simply moronic.
If we have no provision in our constitution as to which religion is the religion which governs us how can we set as foreign policy which religion we will place on a particular region as ruler? to make it simple for you, how did we decide Israel belongs to jews and jews alone?
Religion is not a criteria for nation building in our constitution so it shouldn't be in our foreign policy either. Capishe ?
Stay thirsty my friends
T
triggerman308
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-12 AT 10:53AM (MST)[p]You still didn't answer the question. How could Jerusalem have always been muslim when Jerusalem existed centuries before islam.
This has nothing to do with jew the religion and more to do with jew the ethnic group.
The almighty UN has the final say-so on who gets what. Yeah OK. BS!!!
This has nothing to do with jew the religion and more to do with jew the ethnic group.
The almighty UN has the final say-so on who gets what. Yeah OK. BS!!!
The blowback from Israel's failed Gaza offensive has begun with Britain and France leading the way to upgrade the status of Palestinian statehood in the U.N. This is a severe rebuke and warning to Israel that the current status quo can't continue. It also implies that it will be much harder for Israel to convince Europe (and to a degree, the U.S.) of the imminent threat of Iran.
Eldorado
Eldorado
NeMont
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 12,632
LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-12 AT 11:39AM (MST)[p]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...864930-395f-11e2-9258-ac7c78d5c680_story.html
I wonder why Germany has announced they will oppose the upgrade for the Palestinians?
Britain is going to show leadership by abstaining from the vote.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012...ain-in-Palestinian-UN-bid/UPI-84771354087800/
Nemont
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...864930-395f-11e2-9258-ac7c78d5c680_story.html
I wonder why Germany has announced they will oppose the upgrade for the Palestinians?
Britain is going to show leadership by abstaining from the vote.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012...ain-in-Palestinian-UN-bid/UPI-84771354087800/
Nemont
Britain is inclined to vote in favor if the Palestinians meet certain conditions.
http://news.yahoo.com/britain-could-support-palestinian-u-n-upgrade-bid-125126287.html
http://news.yahoo.com/britain-could-support-palestinian-u-n-upgrade-bid-125126287.html
4
440sixpack
Guest
Because the Britts are ****** not wanting to have jews mad at them, and Germany? well I wonder why they won't say boo to the jews. They know the vote will pass , why take sides when it could effect business.
Trigger what the hell difference does it make who lived there ? if that's all it takes to calim ownership then you get your azz on the rez the indians can prove they were here first. also, if the UN GAVE Israel to the jews WITH agreements the jews are not honoring why is it the UN who should walk away?
The palestinians say all the jews have to do to bring the them back to the talks is stop breaking the illegal settlement mandates. gee I wonder why the jews refuse to take this step and we ( AIPAC ) fails to acknowledge this little issue? do tell trigger, put your best AIPAC spin on it.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/28/how-europe-will-vote-and-why.html
Stay thirsty my friends
Trigger what the hell difference does it make who lived there ? if that's all it takes to calim ownership then you get your azz on the rez the indians can prove they were here first. also, if the UN GAVE Israel to the jews WITH agreements the jews are not honoring why is it the UN who should walk away?
The palestinians say all the jews have to do to bring the them back to the talks is stop breaking the illegal settlement mandates. gee I wonder why the jews refuse to take this step and we ( AIPAC ) fails to acknowledge this little issue? do tell trigger, put your best AIPAC spin on it.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/28/how-europe-will-vote-and-why.html
Stay thirsty my friends
T
triggerman308
Guest
I have a solution. Give the West Bank and Gaza to the Palestinians if the muslims are willing to vacate Jerusalem!
4
440sixpack
Guest
So this is a religious based issue for you. I was thinking more of just giving the palestinians a place to live outside of apartheid.
Stay thirsty my friends
Stay thirsty my friends
T
triggerman308
Guest
Look at the map in post #17. Palestinians need a place to live, tell them to pick any spot in the green part! The Palestinians want two things, they want whatever the jews have and they want the jews dead! They are a small cog in the giant muslim machine with the goal to eliminate Israel from the face of the planet. If Israel didn't exist they'd disappear and dissolve into the rest of the muslim world.
Do you actually believe giving them their own nation will make the palestinians play nice all of a sudden. I seriously doubt it.
Do you actually believe giving them their own nation will make the palestinians play nice all of a sudden. I seriously doubt it.
4
440sixpack
Guest
I very much doubt a homeland for the palestinians will cure the problem. but it's a place to start and it was intended to be so at the time Israel was given to the jews. nothing has been tried and it hasn't worked.
Todays recognition by the UN will allow war crimes charges to be brought against Israel in the future. that is why Netanyahu and Obama fear it most.
If a a palestinian state is formed israel has a chance, if it is not israel will be what, the 100th? empire to lose that worthless strech of real eastate. the israelies ackowledge this, but your AIPAC hasn't as your attitude reflects.
Stay thirsty my friends
Todays recognition by the UN will allow war crimes charges to be brought against Israel in the future. that is why Netanyahu and Obama fear it most.
If a a palestinian state is formed israel has a chance, if it is not israel will be what, the 100th? empire to lose that worthless strech of real eastate. the israelies ackowledge this, but your AIPAC hasn't as your attitude reflects.
Stay thirsty my friends
4
440sixpack
Guest
As expected Israel moves to expand the illegal settlements as punishment for the UN recognition won by the palestinians. this will insure Israels goal of keeping peace talks from being resumed. our undying love and support will be there with funds for the construction.
Is it any wonder why the UN voted as it did.
http://news.yahoo.com/israel-expand-settlements-uns-palestine-vote-162752875.html
Stay thirsty my friends
Is it any wonder why the UN voted as it did.
http://news.yahoo.com/israel-expand-settlements-uns-palestine-vote-162752875.html
Stay thirsty my friends
azbullhunter
Active Member
- Messages
- 386
The United States needs to stay out of that part of the world. Let us take care of ourselves and let that part of the world take care of their disagreements themselves and our deficit will drop rapidly.
4
440sixpack
Guest
I agree, AIPAC owns us so it's not going to happen. israel isn't our only expense, but our largest so it's a great place to start.
By the way wingnuts, you never answered how many troops did Israel send to Iraq and Afghanistan? did your ( allie ) have your back or not? do tell.
Stay thirsty my friends
By the way wingnuts, you never answered how many troops did Israel send to Iraq and Afghanistan? did your ( allie ) have your back or not? do tell.
Stay thirsty my friends
grosventrehunter
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,862
Are you serious 440? Now what do you think would of happened if Israel would of sent troops into Iraq and Afghanistan? Every extremist in the world would of came to fight, but you already knew that. The United States didn't want Israel there because they knew this too.
4
440sixpack
Guest
So Israel can slip into Iran or Palestine and carry out covert operations but they can't blend in with US forces for active duty?
Ok, jews can't fight in the middle east because everyone hates them , hard feelings are kind of a stange excuse in war setting but ok.
So, how many troops did Israel send to Vietnam? zipperheds don't like them either? just what is an allie to you? do tell.
Stay thirsty my friends
Ok, jews can't fight in the middle east because everyone hates them , hard feelings are kind of a stange excuse in war setting but ok.
So, how many troops did Israel send to Vietnam? zipperheds don't like them either? just what is an allie to you? do tell.
Stay thirsty my friends
Must have been a bitter pill for Israel to swallow seeing Mashaal visit Gaza. A glaring reminder of Israel's shrinking preeminence in the region.
http://news.yahoo.com/hamas-chiefs-gaza-visit-poses-challenge-israel-214012489.html
http://news.yahoo.com/hamas-chiefs-gaza-visit-poses-challenge-israel-214012489.html
4
440sixpack
Guest
You have to give that guy credit, he has brass balls. you know the jews wanted to murder him so bad they could taste it and if they had we would have defended them.
So hey wingnuts, cat got your tongue? how many troops has our most valuble allie sent to help us out? anywhere? seems a little one sided doesn't it?
If you want to make a wingnut shut up ask them a specific question.
Stay thirsty my friends
So hey wingnuts, cat got your tongue? how many troops has our most valuble allie sent to help us out? anywhere? seems a little one sided doesn't it?
If you want to make a wingnut shut up ask them a specific question.
Stay thirsty my friends
So why don't you tell us how this is going to work out? Here's a quote from Eldorado's link. So would you two morons sit down and cut a deal with these guys if your lives depended on it? Speaks volumes about your intelligence doesn't it. Yet Israel's gone to the table many times before. Think the Palestinians are being used as pawns, how many will they use for shields. You guys are cheering for terrorists what's that say about your mentality.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
But a Nov. 21 cease-fire agreement, negotiated by Egypt, has forced Israel to leave Hamas leaders alone and negotiate, albeit indirectly, with the Islamic militant group sworn to its destruction.
It appears unlikely that Hamas would ever agree to sit down for peace talks with Israel. The U.S. and European Union have joined Israel in listing Hamas as a terror organization because of its history of attacks aimed at civilians, including suicide bombings inside buses, restaurants and other public places.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
But a Nov. 21 cease-fire agreement, negotiated by Egypt, has forced Israel to leave Hamas leaders alone and negotiate, albeit indirectly, with the Islamic militant group sworn to its destruction.
It appears unlikely that Hamas would ever agree to sit down for peace talks with Israel. The U.S. and European Union have joined Israel in listing Hamas as a terror organization because of its history of attacks aimed at civilians, including suicide bombings inside buses, restaurants and other public places.
Don't kid yourself Boskee. How long can Israel continue to impede peace before being overwhelmed by the tide of change going on the region. Israel is better served now from a position of strength to reach a fair and equitable peace than to be forced to accept terms not to its liking. It's only a matter of time before Israel has to face up to the inevitability of peace whether it likes it or not. Guys like you only make it worst by denying and delaying that day.
Eldorado
Eldorado
eelgrass
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 31,503
Hamas leader vows never to recognize Israel
Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal, making his first ever visit to the Gaza Strip, vowed on Saturday never to recognize Israel and said his Islamist group would never abandon its claim to all Israeli territory.
"Palestine is ours from the river to the sea and from the south to the north. There will be no concession on an inch of the land," he told a sea of supporters at an open-air rally, the highlight of his three-day stay in Gaza.
"We will never recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation and therefore there is no legitimacy for Israel, no matter how long it will take."
http://news.yahoo.com/hamas-leader-vows-never-recognize-israel-140726192.html
Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal, making his first ever visit to the Gaza Strip, vowed on Saturday never to recognize Israel and said his Islamist group would never abandon its claim to all Israeli territory.
"Palestine is ours from the river to the sea and from the south to the north. There will be no concession on an inch of the land," he told a sea of supporters at an open-air rally, the highlight of his three-day stay in Gaza.
"We will never recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation and therefore there is no legitimacy for Israel, no matter how long it will take."
http://news.yahoo.com/hamas-leader-vows-never-recognize-israel-140726192.html
Seems like I'm not the only one who thinks that Jewish settlements have hurt Israel's standing in the region and more importantly, its relations with the U.S. Looks like former PM Olmert is of the same opinion. Fancy that.
http://news.yahoo.com/israels-olmert-says-country-facing-unprecedented-isolation-212146276.html
http://news.yahoo.com/israels-olmert-says-country-facing-unprecedented-isolation-212146276.html
Eldorado, I thought you were coming around because you thought the cockroaches in Syria should be exterminated. Here's the problem with terrorists they don't ask for ID when they're committing their acts. There's a lot of folks from all different nationality's in and out of many of the places they like to terrorize. So they never focus on just their enemy's and frankly that's part of their strategy. If there's some US citizens or Europeans around it's all good to them. Eldorado answer me this since terrorists plan to hold the world hostage by their methods which country surrenders next if Israel does today?
Look at the different cells expanding all over the middle east & Africa in the quest for power. Once we went after Al Queda they started to develop new cells to make it harder to track and harder to combat. They're causing unrest and leave a trail of death along the way. Eldorado what you don't understand is terrorists simply don't care and while you're a man of your word they're not and it's been proven hundreds of times.
Negotiating is a sign of weakness in their world, and they lead and rule by strength. Outsmarting somebody in any endeavor is a way of life. I'm not talking about the common people here I'm talking about terrorists. It's not people like me that don't understand it's guys like you with no experience that don't. Look at the middle east right now it's a powder keg and it's ready to go off at any moment. I understand your good intentions, but you underestimate their resolve. Mr. Obama thought he was going to get somewhere and they took advantage of him in Libya and will do it again if they get the chance and we can't be that vigilant.
This week we had a post office in Casa Grande AZ blown up by a terrorist from the middle east who was on the Homeland Security's watch list and had committed a crime but wasn't deported. When they went to the guys house he had more bomb making materials and came in through Mexico. Did you hear about it over there? It's true and now the guys in custody. So now we have another issue, is he a lone wolf or part of a cell. In any case he set off the device. Luckily nobody was killed but it blew the hell out of the Post Office. Why in the hell would they target Casa Grande?
They've also managed to get people into our Palo Verde Nuclear power plant as fake contractors employees more than a couple of times in the last few years. They didn't do anything but they breeched security. Ever seen how well armed a Nuclear power plant is? They're pretty heavily armed to deter long and short range threats. They have to be because of what can happen.
You young liberals think the world is full of sunshine and lollipops and I can tell you from being out there nothing could be further from the truth. The worlds a dangerous place and all the unrest in the middle east is just a reminder to those of you that think otherwise. Look at the chemical weapons issue in Syria. If you think they aren't coming here (US) again Casa Grand and Palo Verde prove otherwise. Then when you factor all the other incidents you don't know about, (national security) it shows they're not done with us yet. You've seen the light with the cockroaches but there's many more variety's you haven't even heard of yet. Think those boys in Hamas aren't getting part of their weapons from some of the same people that armed the cockroaches?
Look at the different cells expanding all over the middle east & Africa in the quest for power. Once we went after Al Queda they started to develop new cells to make it harder to track and harder to combat. They're causing unrest and leave a trail of death along the way. Eldorado what you don't understand is terrorists simply don't care and while you're a man of your word they're not and it's been proven hundreds of times.
Negotiating is a sign of weakness in their world, and they lead and rule by strength. Outsmarting somebody in any endeavor is a way of life. I'm not talking about the common people here I'm talking about terrorists. It's not people like me that don't understand it's guys like you with no experience that don't. Look at the middle east right now it's a powder keg and it's ready to go off at any moment. I understand your good intentions, but you underestimate their resolve. Mr. Obama thought he was going to get somewhere and they took advantage of him in Libya and will do it again if they get the chance and we can't be that vigilant.
This week we had a post office in Casa Grande AZ blown up by a terrorist from the middle east who was on the Homeland Security's watch list and had committed a crime but wasn't deported. When they went to the guys house he had more bomb making materials and came in through Mexico. Did you hear about it over there? It's true and now the guys in custody. So now we have another issue, is he a lone wolf or part of a cell. In any case he set off the device. Luckily nobody was killed but it blew the hell out of the Post Office. Why in the hell would they target Casa Grande?
They've also managed to get people into our Palo Verde Nuclear power plant as fake contractors employees more than a couple of times in the last few years. They didn't do anything but they breeched security. Ever seen how well armed a Nuclear power plant is? They're pretty heavily armed to deter long and short range threats. They have to be because of what can happen.
You young liberals think the world is full of sunshine and lollipops and I can tell you from being out there nothing could be further from the truth. The worlds a dangerous place and all the unrest in the middle east is just a reminder to those of you that think otherwise. Look at the chemical weapons issue in Syria. If you think they aren't coming here (US) again Casa Grand and Palo Verde prove otherwise. Then when you factor all the other incidents you don't know about, (national security) it shows they're not done with us yet. You've seen the light with the cockroaches but there's many more variety's you haven't even heard of yet. Think those boys in Hamas aren't getting part of their weapons from some of the same people that armed the cockroaches?
Eldorado I said Israel was wrong for doing what they were doing but from a strategic standpoint it makes sense. But lets say they stop building and turn it over do you really think Hamas is really going to stop? See that's the game and we've done this many times before. No matter what they do unless they're completely out of there it won't work. It's a shell game with no end and that's why we've never been able to negotiate peace over there and never will. Eels post pretty much sums it up and the head of Hamas tells you just that.
You disarm Hamas by supporting Abbas and Fatah. Something Israel has been unwilling to do. Look, Hamas has gained in stature and relevance because of Israel's policy to sideline the moderate Abbas in order to divide and weaken the Palestinians. But the move has actually backfired and now Israel is facing a more dangerous enemy in Hamas. In the end, Israel will have to negotiate with one of these party's and Fatah looks to be the more practical and pragmatic partner if your Israel.
Eldorado
Eldorado
So do you really think these three faction's are the only one's involved? That's always been the issue in that part of the world there's so many players pulling the strings, once you think it's worked out the game changes and the cycles starts again. It's gone on since all this mess started and it's not going to change until we find a way to get terrorism out of the picture.
LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-12 AT 11:54AM (MST)[p]
Eldorado. It's time for you to get off the immoral and illegal bandwagon. It's politics not law. This article was written by David Davenport of the Hoover Institute.
The recent vote by the United Nations General Assembly to accept Palestine as a nonmember observer state is a powerful reminder that what often passes as international law is not really law at all, but is merely politics by another name. In fact, in this case, the U.N. decision runs contrary to international law in ways that not only failed to win the day, but that weren't even considered.
For starters international law has objective criteria for determining whether or not an entity qualifies as a state. The Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States (1933) sets forth what is generally accepted as the legal criteria for the establishment of a nation-state: (1) A permanent population, (2) a defined territory, (3) a government, and (4) the capacity to enter into relations with other states. Essentially all of these questions are still up for grabs in the case of Palestine. The negotiations between Palestine and Israel have yet to define a territory, and a key part of the territory contemplated by the U.N. vote, Gaza, is actually controlled not by the Palestinian Authority, but by the terrorist organization Hamas. Multiple regimes operate throughout Palestine, and its residents are perennial refugees.
So did the U.N. vote create a state even though these criteria were not met (or even discussed)? Legally the answer is ?no? but politically the answer is ?in a limited way, yes.? If Palestine does not meet the required criteria, it is not a state, no matter what the General Assembly might say. The entire atmosphere surrounding the vote was more pep rally than legal process. Those who cast votes did not struggle with the legal criteria for, as Israeli diplomat Abba Eban once said, ?If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.? The actual vote here was very close to that: 138-9 with 41 abstentions. Nations were voting political preferences, not law.
So if the vote did not create a legal state of Palestine, what did it accomplish? By elevating Palestine to nonmember observer state status at the U.N., it falls short of making Palestine a U.N. member, which would be a stronger claim to statehood. Only the Security Council can do that, however, and it has declined to do so. But by calling it a state, the vote does give Palestine access to certain international bodies, most especially the possibility of bringing a matter before international courts and tribunals. This, of course, is precisely what Palestine wanted, since it already attempted to bring a case against Israel in the International Criminal Court, but was turned back because it was not a state. So the vote does provide at least some kind of claim to statehood, or a kind of quasi-statehood, the full implications of which are not yet known.
But ironically, in elevating its status at the U.N., Palestine violated yet another international law, the Oslo Accords. Under this legal convention, Palestine agreed not to change its international status except through the Accords and the peace process they established. By going to the U.N. to seek statehood and define its territory, Palestine has violated this international treaty, and placed its roadmap to peace at real risk. Of course Palestine would say that the treaty violation was a risk worth taking so lengthy and frustrating has the whole process been, but strengthening one?s legal status on one hand by violating international legal agreements on the other hand is more than a little troublesome.
Which brings us back to international law and its discontents. Much of what passes for international law is really at best international norms countries agree to follow, and politics or national interest when they decide not to. As Judge Robert Bork wrote in his book Coercing Virtue: The Worldwide Rule of Judges: ?International law is not law but politics. For that reason, it is dangerous to give the name ?law,? which summons up respect to political struggles that are essentially lawless.? Thanks to the Palestinian statehood campaign and the U.N. vote, the political struggles of the Middle East are now worse, and international law is cast aside and violated in the process.
Eldorado. It's time for you to get off the immoral and illegal bandwagon. It's politics not law. This article was written by David Davenport of the Hoover Institute.
The recent vote by the United Nations General Assembly to accept Palestine as a nonmember observer state is a powerful reminder that what often passes as international law is not really law at all, but is merely politics by another name. In fact, in this case, the U.N. decision runs contrary to international law in ways that not only failed to win the day, but that weren't even considered.
For starters international law has objective criteria for determining whether or not an entity qualifies as a state. The Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States (1933) sets forth what is generally accepted as the legal criteria for the establishment of a nation-state: (1) A permanent population, (2) a defined territory, (3) a government, and (4) the capacity to enter into relations with other states. Essentially all of these questions are still up for grabs in the case of Palestine. The negotiations between Palestine and Israel have yet to define a territory, and a key part of the territory contemplated by the U.N. vote, Gaza, is actually controlled not by the Palestinian Authority, but by the terrorist organization Hamas. Multiple regimes operate throughout Palestine, and its residents are perennial refugees.
So did the U.N. vote create a state even though these criteria were not met (or even discussed)? Legally the answer is ?no? but politically the answer is ?in a limited way, yes.? If Palestine does not meet the required criteria, it is not a state, no matter what the General Assembly might say. The entire atmosphere surrounding the vote was more pep rally than legal process. Those who cast votes did not struggle with the legal criteria for, as Israeli diplomat Abba Eban once said, ?If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.? The actual vote here was very close to that: 138-9 with 41 abstentions. Nations were voting political preferences, not law.
So if the vote did not create a legal state of Palestine, what did it accomplish? By elevating Palestine to nonmember observer state status at the U.N., it falls short of making Palestine a U.N. member, which would be a stronger claim to statehood. Only the Security Council can do that, however, and it has declined to do so. But by calling it a state, the vote does give Palestine access to certain international bodies, most especially the possibility of bringing a matter before international courts and tribunals. This, of course, is precisely what Palestine wanted, since it already attempted to bring a case against Israel in the International Criminal Court, but was turned back because it was not a state. So the vote does provide at least some kind of claim to statehood, or a kind of quasi-statehood, the full implications of which are not yet known.
But ironically, in elevating its status at the U.N., Palestine violated yet another international law, the Oslo Accords. Under this legal convention, Palestine agreed not to change its international status except through the Accords and the peace process they established. By going to the U.N. to seek statehood and define its territory, Palestine has violated this international treaty, and placed its roadmap to peace at real risk. Of course Palestine would say that the treaty violation was a risk worth taking so lengthy and frustrating has the whole process been, but strengthening one?s legal status on one hand by violating international legal agreements on the other hand is more than a little troublesome.
Which brings us back to international law and its discontents. Much of what passes for international law is really at best international norms countries agree to follow, and politics or national interest when they decide not to. As Judge Robert Bork wrote in his book Coercing Virtue: The Worldwide Rule of Judges: ?International law is not law but politics. For that reason, it is dangerous to give the name ?law,? which summons up respect to political struggles that are essentially lawless.? Thanks to the Palestinian statehood campaign and the U.N. vote, the political struggles of the Middle East are now worse, and international law is cast aside and violated in the process.
Now this is interesting. Pres. Peres is of the opinion that current Israeli policy has undermined moderate Palestinian partner's like Fatah's Mahmoud Abbas. Fancy that.
http://news.yahoo.com/israel-grows-jittery-palestinian-uprising-182531555.html
http://news.yahoo.com/israel-grows-jittery-palestinian-uprising-182531555.html
The Geneva Convention protects people under foreign occupation with Israel has shamefully seen fit not to observe. Let's not forget that the biggest violation of international law (not withstanding the Oslo Accords) has been the building of Jewish settlements which continue to this day.
Eldorado
Eldorado
4
440sixpack
Guest
Hamas, who is a radical group only given any power because the Palestinians see no other option, says they do not recognize Israel. true.
Israel keeps the Palestinians in aparthied, does not even want the UN to vote on the matter of should Palestine be recognized by the UN ( which they won byt a landslide ) and it's Hamas who is the problem and Israel is the victim?
Priceless.
Stay thirsty my friends
Israel keeps the Palestinians in aparthied, does not even want the UN to vote on the matter of should Palestine be recognized by the UN ( which they won byt a landslide ) and it's Hamas who is the problem and Israel is the victim?
Priceless.
Stay thirsty my friends
If they had a legal claim in international court they wouldn't have thrown the cases out would they. Moot point
Funny how my position all along to get rid of the terrorists seems to be the stance you're now trying to show me in your link is the way to go and Abbas wants Hamas out of the picture.
Guess the old guy already had it figured out.
If you get the outside influences & militants out of things the Israelis and Palestinians will make peace. If not it's never going to end. Peres is entitled to his opinion like everyone else but Netanyahu holds the office and has the publics support and it looks like being firm is what they want. The fact you can't understand that logic only shows how little you know about the middle east. Fancy that.
Funny how my position all along to get rid of the terrorists seems to be the stance you're now trying to show me in your link is the way to go and Abbas wants Hamas out of the picture.
Guess the old guy already had it figured out.
If you get the outside influences & militants out of things the Israelis and Palestinians will make peace. If not it's never going to end. Peres is entitled to his opinion like everyone else but Netanyahu holds the office and has the publics support and it looks like being firm is what they want. The fact you can't understand that logic only shows how little you know about the middle east. Fancy that.
LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-12 AT 09:07AM (MST)[p]
No what's funny is that now you're posting links and supporting another faction when your guy Obama wants Morsi who wants Hamas. See you have gone completely around to supporting what former Israeli's want. Guess you're not as smart as you think Skippy when you're quoting former Israeli leaders and supporting what they want you managed to undermine the position of your President Obama. I said Netanyahu had control and public support and he will decide.
Now go change your diaper it must be smelling bad since you sat in it! Gee I didn't take too much work at all to get you to change position and come around to posting up what some of the Israeli's want yet they're the issue. What happened to your boasts about Hamas and them saving Palestine? Seems to be a consensus here that terrorism is the issue and you just can't seem to get away from that. FANCY THAT
Don't you and 440 have to go shopping today to pick out your attire for the parade? I'll bet that's something to see you two Twinks strutting down the street hand in hand in pink tights, feather boas, glitter and matching bone pumps high kicking and dancing to the sounds of New York New York! It makes all of us on Monster Muleys proud to know we support equal rights!
No what's funny is that now you're posting links and supporting another faction when your guy Obama wants Morsi who wants Hamas. See you have gone completely around to supporting what former Israeli's want. Guess you're not as smart as you think Skippy when you're quoting former Israeli leaders and supporting what they want you managed to undermine the position of your President Obama. I said Netanyahu had control and public support and he will decide.
Now go change your diaper it must be smelling bad since you sat in it! Gee I didn't take too much work at all to get you to change position and come around to posting up what some of the Israeli's want yet they're the issue. What happened to your boasts about Hamas and them saving Palestine? Seems to be a consensus here that terrorism is the issue and you just can't seem to get away from that. FANCY THAT
Don't you and 440 have to go shopping today to pick out your attire for the parade? I'll bet that's something to see you two Twinks strutting down the street hand in hand in pink tights, feather boas, glitter and matching bone pumps high kicking and dancing to the sounds of New York New York! It makes all of us on Monster Muleys proud to know we support equal rights!
4
440sixpack
Guest
Netanhau's approval rating in Israel runs about the same as Obama's does here. not really the worshiped god you think he is.
But you're right about one thing, Netanyahu's policies are lowering the chances of peace and moving Israelie opinions towards the far right. a few years ago Netanyahu nearly lost and 63% of Israelies favored a two state solution. hard to say how much of this change is from Israelies born in Israel and how much is fanatic jews moving to Israel since being a jew is all being an Israelie amounts to. nevertheless, Israel is on the road to a losing battle enjoy it while you can.
Name one nation which survived apartheid, research it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/23/israeli-poll-majority-apartheid-policies
Stay thirsty my friends
But you're right about one thing, Netanyahu's policies are lowering the chances of peace and moving Israelie opinions towards the far right. a few years ago Netanyahu nearly lost and 63% of Israelies favored a two state solution. hard to say how much of this change is from Israelies born in Israel and how much is fanatic jews moving to Israel since being a jew is all being an Israelie amounts to. nevertheless, Israel is on the road to a losing battle enjoy it while you can.
Name one nation which survived apartheid, research it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/23/israeli-poll-majority-apartheid-policies
Stay thirsty my friends
Getting the terrorists out of the equation will result in Palestine and Israel finding peace, and coexisting not exactly eliminating apartheid but taking a huge step in the right direction from where it's been.
You find fault with the people of Israel running their country yet say nothing about Morsi wanting to only push Islamic beliefs in his new constitution, yet he stands behind the terrorists HAMAS. Looks like Morsi has bigger issues internally than Netanyahu for his stance. Then lets look at how many other leaders in the region were deposed yet Israel's still standing. Those aren't happy folks rioting in Egypt or rebelling in Syria are they? Isn't that ironic.
Maybe Obama's hand picked leader needs to consider governing for all his people instead of just his buddy's and let the Israeli's handle their country.
You really seem to have quite a grasp on the stability and who's losing the battles right now. How's old Netanyahu look now? One would think you'd like him better because you have more in common with him & his people than you think, especially from a comparative historical and personal standpoint. Must be that Fanatical Jew thing again that keeps getting in your way. I guess you're one of those JACK LIBERALS.
You find fault with the people of Israel running their country yet say nothing about Morsi wanting to only push Islamic beliefs in his new constitution, yet he stands behind the terrorists HAMAS. Looks like Morsi has bigger issues internally than Netanyahu for his stance. Then lets look at how many other leaders in the region were deposed yet Israel's still standing. Those aren't happy folks rioting in Egypt or rebelling in Syria are they? Isn't that ironic.
Maybe Obama's hand picked leader needs to consider governing for all his people instead of just his buddy's and let the Israeli's handle their country.
You really seem to have quite a grasp on the stability and who's losing the battles right now. How's old Netanyahu look now? One would think you'd like him better because you have more in common with him & his people than you think, especially from a comparative historical and personal standpoint. Must be that Fanatical Jew thing again that keeps getting in your way. I guess you're one of those JACK LIBERALS.
LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-12 AT 01:09PM (MST)[p]Mursi over reached but it's only a temporary setback for the Muslim Brotherhood. Time is on their side.
Syria is proving a harder nut to crack. The U.S. inspired and funded war against Assad could come back to haunt U.S. interests for year's to come.
Israel continues to bet on policies that have lead it to a dead end. Time to wise up and get real about the changes going on in the region and respond accordingly with practical and pragmatic solutions.
Eldorado
Syria is proving a harder nut to crack. The U.S. inspired and funded war against Assad could come back to haunt U.S. interests for year's to come.
Israel continues to bet on policies that have lead it to a dead end. Time to wise up and get real about the changes going on in the region and respond accordingly with practical and pragmatic solutions.
Eldorado
4
440sixpack
Guest
Boskee I'll give you credit, you don't let the facts get in your way of being an expert.
What is a terrorist? our founding fathers were terrorists as far as the Brits were concerned. just because the US doesn't fund someone doesn't mean their goals are wrong. yes by any definition outside of the occupied populations opinion Hamas is a terrorist organization. but why is Israel considered to be in the same class as N Korea and Iran by the world? maybe their hat is not as white as you think. 12 times more palestinian kids have died sine 2000 than israelie kids in this battle for land.
The palestinians make do it what they have, like rocks and IED's. arm them equal to Israel and see if you respect them more.
Check it out.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
Stay thirsty my friends
What is a terrorist? our founding fathers were terrorists as far as the Brits were concerned. just because the US doesn't fund someone doesn't mean their goals are wrong. yes by any definition outside of the occupied populations opinion Hamas is a terrorist organization. but why is Israel considered to be in the same class as N Korea and Iran by the world? maybe their hat is not as white as you think. 12 times more palestinian kids have died sine 2000 than israelie kids in this battle for land.
The palestinians make do it what they have, like rocks and IED's. arm them equal to Israel and see if you respect them more.
Check it out.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
Stay thirsty my friends
