Israel?
- Thread starter Zigga
- Start date
440
When you're firing weapons hiding behind soft targets they're going to get shot or killed. That's why they do it to show the world what happened to them. Just like they do to us when we bomb a terrorist and there's always a doll or teddy bear in the photos.
So it's quite simple really stop waging war and people will stop getting killed.
You've tried to exploit the overwhelming numbers angle, now you're playing the less armed angle, and the more deaths angle. It's all in their control it's their choice you can't be that stupid.
Even Eldorado pointed out how well armed Hamas is. How many hundreds of missiles did they fire on Israel in the last attacks? HUNDREDS If Israel fired an equal number into Gaza how many THOUSANDS would they have killed? Yet they didn't. WHY?
Israel learned a long time ago tit for tat doesn't work in the middle east, and turning the other cheek doesn't work either, so in order to survive they fight to win. That may not be to your liking but it seems to have extended their time on earth.
Websites don't fire rockets people do...... a cop has the right to defend himself but it's not OK if you're an Israeli now who's letting the facts get in the way ....... Why not join Hamas I'm sure a smart guy like you could be a suicide bomber in no time then you could take care of them yourself.
When you're firing weapons hiding behind soft targets they're going to get shot or killed. That's why they do it to show the world what happened to them. Just like they do to us when we bomb a terrorist and there's always a doll or teddy bear in the photos.
So it's quite simple really stop waging war and people will stop getting killed.
You've tried to exploit the overwhelming numbers angle, now you're playing the less armed angle, and the more deaths angle. It's all in their control it's their choice you can't be that stupid.
Even Eldorado pointed out how well armed Hamas is. How many hundreds of missiles did they fire on Israel in the last attacks? HUNDREDS If Israel fired an equal number into Gaza how many THOUSANDS would they have killed? Yet they didn't. WHY?
Israel learned a long time ago tit for tat doesn't work in the middle east, and turning the other cheek doesn't work either, so in order to survive they fight to win. That may not be to your liking but it seems to have extended their time on earth.
Websites don't fire rockets people do...... a cop has the right to defend himself but it's not OK if you're an Israeli now who's letting the facts get in the way ....... Why not join Hamas I'm sure a smart guy like you could be a suicide bomber in no time then you could take care of them yourself.
T
triggerman308
Guest
Best idea I've heard all night!
4
440sixpack
Guest
If you two were as smart as you think you are you'd support a policy with palestine which will not end with israel's demise.
With a palestinian state there is a chance, without it there is no chance for israel. there have been 91 empires rule what you call Israel, 92 is gauranteed if you stick to the road you're on.a few nuclear weapons and american borrowed money can't win a fight without world support and a billion muslims ready to die. you're going to have to have it proven to you before you get it. kind of a pattern you're getting good at isn't it.
Got to love this, Netanyahu and AIPAC want to say anti-semite so bad they can taste it. everyone hates them because they're jews, slam that card down. Whaaaaaa.
http://www.boston.com/news/world/eu...settlements/YNTE3c9GPvFEXo4ovtOQxK/story.html
Stay thirsty my friends
With a palestinian state there is a chance, without it there is no chance for israel. there have been 91 empires rule what you call Israel, 92 is gauranteed if you stick to the road you're on.a few nuclear weapons and american borrowed money can't win a fight without world support and a billion muslims ready to die. you're going to have to have it proven to you before you get it. kind of a pattern you're getting good at isn't it.
Got to love this, Netanyahu and AIPAC want to say anti-semite so bad they can taste it. everyone hates them because they're jews, slam that card down. Whaaaaaa.
http://www.boston.com/news/world/eu...settlements/YNTE3c9GPvFEXo4ovtOQxK/story.html
Stay thirsty my friends
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440sixpack
Guest
Agreed, but to some americans the fact the jews are the chosen ones will prevent them from realizing anything could ever happen to a nation of jews. until it does.
Well that and history and facts annoy them.
Stay thirsty my friends
Well that and history and facts annoy them.
Stay thirsty my friends
If they created a free Palestinian State over there tomorrow within a year or two things would still be going on. You believe what you want but the problems in the area have always been generated outside Palestine. People are frustrated and want this resolved but the forces of darkness have no intentions of allowing that to happen. The Palestinians are pawns and moved at will.
The terrorists are gaining ground every single day and use our own morality, world opinion, deception, and fear as a weapons against us.
Why can't we eliminate Al Queda? Why do they continue to receive funding? Where from? For the same damn reasons. And now they've grown and expanded their cells because they know terrorism is the hardest to combat force of terror on the earth. They reside among the people strike at will and use innocent people as their shields and reap havoc on society. We helped free the Libyan people and they killed our ambassador just to send a message with another arm.
See a new refined form of warfare is terrorism in that you get your opponent so afraid that they become paralyzed and can't fight. If they strike you show the world how merciless you are, by a few random acts of violence. Set off a few bombs around the world that kill folks. Some think they aren't being effected, yet the reality is much different in that, it plays with your mind. These acts imbed fear in society. Do that enough times and fear consumes people and then when the times right you immobilize them with a ruthless strike and take what you want.
In fact they give it to you, hoping to be left alone. It's exactly what happens on a battlefield only they're doing it to society with untrained civilians a more emotional and easily manipulated prey. Everybody in the liberal public and press thinks this is the solution and will result in peace and that right there is where the deception angle comes in, It's only the start of things to come.
The terrorists are gaining ground every single day and use our own morality, world opinion, deception, and fear as a weapons against us.
Why can't we eliminate Al Queda? Why do they continue to receive funding? Where from? For the same damn reasons. And now they've grown and expanded their cells because they know terrorism is the hardest to combat force of terror on the earth. They reside among the people strike at will and use innocent people as their shields and reap havoc on society. We helped free the Libyan people and they killed our ambassador just to send a message with another arm.
See a new refined form of warfare is terrorism in that you get your opponent so afraid that they become paralyzed and can't fight. If they strike you show the world how merciless you are, by a few random acts of violence. Set off a few bombs around the world that kill folks. Some think they aren't being effected, yet the reality is much different in that, it plays with your mind. These acts imbed fear in society. Do that enough times and fear consumes people and then when the times right you immobilize them with a ruthless strike and take what you want.
In fact they give it to you, hoping to be left alone. It's exactly what happens on a battlefield only they're doing it to society with untrained civilians a more emotional and easily manipulated prey. Everybody in the liberal public and press thinks this is the solution and will result in peace and that right there is where the deception angle comes in, It's only the start of things to come.
T
triggerman308
Guest
440, do you actually think giving the Palestinians their own state will make them settle down and play nice? Do you really think they will be satisfied with that.
I can tell you, they will never be satisfied until Israel ceases to exist. Their agenda is the complete annihilation of the jews.
The jews are ruthless because they are fighting for their lives against people who don't value life. People who teach their children that it is honorable to be a martyr and blow yourself up to kill a few jews, and you and eldo support this mindset. You are misguided and confused.
I can tell you, they will never be satisfied until Israel ceases to exist. Their agenda is the complete annihilation of the jews.
The jews are ruthless because they are fighting for their lives against people who don't value life. People who teach their children that it is honorable to be a martyr and blow yourself up to kill a few jews, and you and eldo support this mindset. You are misguided and confused.
RELH
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 17,500
Eldorado, Time and history being against Israel is only your personal opinion and only worth that. Time will be the deciding factor.
Up to 1776 most countries, including the two great world powers at that time, France and England, felt the same about this country. They gave very little chance of the American colonies being able to wage a war with England and gaining our freedom from them. Will power and determination proved those countries wrong and France only stepped in to help after George Washington won a major battle to prove they were capable of winning the fight with aid from France.
Gen. Santa Anna also felt the same about Texas and determination and will power handled him his own neck to barter for Texas winning their freedom from him and his large army.
I feel the people in Israel have that same will power and determination to not only survive, but progress even though they are out numbered by their enemies. The holocast taught them one thing that will drive them to the bitter end if need be. One reason they have the motto "Never Again".
I am tired of this country fighting the wars for Sadia Arabia and Kuwaite so they can keep their oil wells. I respect the Jews in Israel being willing to put their own boots on the ground and only ask for the equitment to fight the wars they have won over great odds that were against them.
I guess that is where you and I are different, you support Muslim countries that want our aid and then turn around and kick us in the groin, and I prefer backing a country that has the guts to do their own fighting as opposed to most of the Muslim countries
RELH
Up to 1776 most countries, including the two great world powers at that time, France and England, felt the same about this country. They gave very little chance of the American colonies being able to wage a war with England and gaining our freedom from them. Will power and determination proved those countries wrong and France only stepped in to help after George Washington won a major battle to prove they were capable of winning the fight with aid from France.
Gen. Santa Anna also felt the same about Texas and determination and will power handled him his own neck to barter for Texas winning their freedom from him and his large army.
I feel the people in Israel have that same will power and determination to not only survive, but progress even though they are out numbered by their enemies. The holocast taught them one thing that will drive them to the bitter end if need be. One reason they have the motto "Never Again".
I am tired of this country fighting the wars for Sadia Arabia and Kuwaite so they can keep their oil wells. I respect the Jews in Israel being willing to put their own boots on the ground and only ask for the equitment to fight the wars they have won over great odds that were against them.
I guess that is where you and I are different, you support Muslim countries that want our aid and then turn around and kick us in the groin, and I prefer backing a country that has the guts to do their own fighting as opposed to most of the Muslim countries
RELH
T
triggerman308
Guest
440 and eldo's position on the matter speaks loud and clear where they stand!
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440sixpack
Guest
Youe opinion shows your lack of understanding. or maybe you're just stupid, that's not a hard sell.
Boskee you're trying to hold a displaced and occupied population responsible for our problems with the muslims. did you ever think maybe if those people were treated as human both Israel and the US would have less trouble with them? we gave Israwel the hammer and they love smashing the arabs fingers with it, then you have the nerve to say it's the arabs fault for resisting the occupation and apartheid they exist under. if you weren't so biased you'd see the comedy of your position.
I say Israel started it but the palestinians aren't going about resolving it as best they could. seeking UN recognition is a proper start. so anyone with an IQ over 20 will agree this is a bad situation and peace would be the best way to resolve it agreed? the world is not content to take your position that it's hopeless and the arabs should just be killed, with this fact in mind what is your excuse for Israel not halting the illegal settlements and restarting the peace talks ? no more BS stories or excuses give an answer.
Stay thirsty my friends
Boskee you're trying to hold a displaced and occupied population responsible for our problems with the muslims. did you ever think maybe if those people were treated as human both Israel and the US would have less trouble with them? we gave Israwel the hammer and they love smashing the arabs fingers with it, then you have the nerve to say it's the arabs fault for resisting the occupation and apartheid they exist under. if you weren't so biased you'd see the comedy of your position.
I say Israel started it but the palestinians aren't going about resolving it as best they could. seeking UN recognition is a proper start. so anyone with an IQ over 20 will agree this is a bad situation and peace would be the best way to resolve it agreed? the world is not content to take your position that it's hopeless and the arabs should just be killed, with this fact in mind what is your excuse for Israel not halting the illegal settlements and restarting the peace talks ? no more BS stories or excuses give an answer.
Stay thirsty my friends
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440sixpack
Guest
Correct, and that's why Israel has gone into overdrive with new building to make that impossible.
Peace talks would only strengthen the Palestinians hand, let the world see them as something other than terrorists. Israel is poking the palestinians with a stick trying to pull them into continued confrontation, if that fails at least a two state solution won't be possible.
I think even the wignuts as slantheaded as they are see this, that's why they won't attempt to excuse the new building.
Stay thirsty my friends
Peace talks would only strengthen the Palestinians hand, let the world see them as something other than terrorists. Israel is poking the palestinians with a stick trying to pull them into continued confrontation, if that fails at least a two state solution won't be possible.
I think even the wignuts as slantheaded as they are see this, that's why they won't attempt to excuse the new building.
Stay thirsty my friends
T
triggerman308
Guest
The real comedy of this whole situation is that you two slantheads think that if we give the palestinians there own state, then they will cease all aggression towrads Israel and there will be PEACE THROUGHOUT THE LAND!!!! I can't keep from laughing at you two naive numbnuts.
You two really are stupid.
You two really are stupid.
Odd how some here are quiet about Israel's abusive policies and practices against the Christian community.
http://972mag.com/israels-not-so-stellar-record-on-treatment-of-christians/43325/
http://972mag.com/israels-not-so-stellar-record-on-treatment-of-christians/43325/
Think about this I've spent more time on the ground over there than you have hunting deer and elk in your entire life by a days afield count. Not just in Israel but in the area since we have been active over there for quite a while. Now I would think you learned something about hunting in the time you've been doing it? Given that I was dealing with individuals that were involved in defense in the area one may think I could learn a few things too.
I'm done trying to reason with you two. Let's relate this to the time you kept telling me that you had a tight chambered gun and based on what you said I told you it wasn't or you wouldn't be able to chamber the cartridges you said would work. I told you to call your gunsmith which you did and you found out the reality of what "cutting a tight chamber meant". Turns out I was right and I had told you what it was. You admitted it and learned something. Experience is a good teacher if you open your mind and learn from things. My experience benefitted me in that instance and I think it may here as well. I may be totally wrong but wanting to save lives is commendable on all our parts.
Since the events in Syria are unfolding in a different manner with more players than originally thought, seems that forces outside that area are controlling things to keep democracy from taking hold. More than just a couple players are involved and are all doing, what's in their best interests. Al Queda is in the picture, now with one of it's arms. Funny how so many interests are involved not just the ones they let you know of isn't it. Arms are being supplied by a few factions. think that qualifies as "outside involvement". Think any of those interests are involved with terrorism? Gee let me see aren't some of these same factions involved in Palestine?
Palestine has been controlled by outside involvement longer than Syria. So you believe what you want but what I posted above will most likely play out and If you think terrorism isn't at work there's nothing I'm going to say that will change your mind. It's fingerprints are all over the whole mess. See when you're getting information from the guys involved in the issue, you usually get a pretty good idea what's going on especially when they're the ones carrying out the orders. My opinion is based on an extended timeframe not just current events. Now I know things have changed since I was going over there, but seems like the issues are exactly the same as they've always been, only the players have changed. The only new factor is Iran's enrichment program and that's not helping. Iran's clearly showing the world that they think they're a player and taunting Israel in the process. I'll bet it's doing great things for recruitment on the terrorist front, wonder how many liberal American's they've signed up to help take us down.
You and Eldorado are thinking that UN action will save things when in reality it will only agitate the situation more by making Israel feel more alienated. Hey we're all entitled to our opinions, mine from my outdated experience and Eldorado's and yours from your sources. You two think your method is going to work we'll see how it plays out. It may play out your way but I'll bet you it plays out more aligned with my thoughts. Soon the day of reckoning will be upon us and then we test everyone's resolve, if Israel feels like they stand alone, they'll do the only thing that will protect it's future. That may not set well with you two but I doubt they'll give it much thought. The threads of the world of Islam have been woven in this since day 1, decades ago that's not bias moron that's fact. What part of both at fault don't you comprehend?
I'm done trying to reason with you two. Let's relate this to the time you kept telling me that you had a tight chambered gun and based on what you said I told you it wasn't or you wouldn't be able to chamber the cartridges you said would work. I told you to call your gunsmith which you did and you found out the reality of what "cutting a tight chamber meant". Turns out I was right and I had told you what it was. You admitted it and learned something. Experience is a good teacher if you open your mind and learn from things. My experience benefitted me in that instance and I think it may here as well. I may be totally wrong but wanting to save lives is commendable on all our parts.
Since the events in Syria are unfolding in a different manner with more players than originally thought, seems that forces outside that area are controlling things to keep democracy from taking hold. More than just a couple players are involved and are all doing, what's in their best interests. Al Queda is in the picture, now with one of it's arms. Funny how so many interests are involved not just the ones they let you know of isn't it. Arms are being supplied by a few factions. think that qualifies as "outside involvement". Think any of those interests are involved with terrorism? Gee let me see aren't some of these same factions involved in Palestine?
Palestine has been controlled by outside involvement longer than Syria. So you believe what you want but what I posted above will most likely play out and If you think terrorism isn't at work there's nothing I'm going to say that will change your mind. It's fingerprints are all over the whole mess. See when you're getting information from the guys involved in the issue, you usually get a pretty good idea what's going on especially when they're the ones carrying out the orders. My opinion is based on an extended timeframe not just current events. Now I know things have changed since I was going over there, but seems like the issues are exactly the same as they've always been, only the players have changed. The only new factor is Iran's enrichment program and that's not helping. Iran's clearly showing the world that they think they're a player and taunting Israel in the process. I'll bet it's doing great things for recruitment on the terrorist front, wonder how many liberal American's they've signed up to help take us down.
You and Eldorado are thinking that UN action will save things when in reality it will only agitate the situation more by making Israel feel more alienated. Hey we're all entitled to our opinions, mine from my outdated experience and Eldorado's and yours from your sources. You two think your method is going to work we'll see how it plays out. It may play out your way but I'll bet you it plays out more aligned with my thoughts. Soon the day of reckoning will be upon us and then we test everyone's resolve, if Israel feels like they stand alone, they'll do the only thing that will protect it's future. That may not set well with you two but I doubt they'll give it much thought. The threads of the world of Islam have been woven in this since day 1, decades ago that's not bias moron that's fact. What part of both at fault don't you comprehend?
T
triggerman308
Guest
PEACE!!! really eldo. Think about this real hard. These two ethnic groups have been fighting for nearly 3000 years. Thats thousand not hundreds. They aren't about to stop now. No matter who get what land ok'ed by the UN. Fighting is part of who they are and it ain't gonna stop.
The muslims want the jews dead and the jews will defend themselves to the last man. Peace my azz!
The muslims want the jews dead and the jews will defend themselves to the last man. Peace my azz!
Z
ZIGGER
Guest
.....and then in 100 years the jews can enjoy palestinian casinos......
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440sixpack
Guest
Triggerdork there is no gaurantee a palestinian state would bring peace, but it is gauranteed no palestinian state will be the demise of Israel. have it your way , I just wish I could opt out of my share of the 10 million a day.
My you bible thumpers dodged that christianity story like a politician. what about it? while you're what about the blood libel and all that crap with the jews? your history with the jews isn't all you crack it up to be and vice versa if I recall the vatican and Nazi relationship. maybe Manny could get you up to speed if he didn't hate muslims so much he can't be objective.
I guess you figure the jews suck, it's just the muslims suck worse. isn't superstition wonderful?
Stay thirsty my friends
My you bible thumpers dodged that christianity story like a politician. what about it? while you're what about the blood libel and all that crap with the jews? your history with the jews isn't all you crack it up to be and vice versa if I recall the vatican and Nazi relationship. maybe Manny could get you up to speed if he didn't hate muslims so much he can't be objective.
I guess you figure the jews suck, it's just the muslims suck worse. isn't superstition wonderful?
Stay thirsty my friends
Building more settlements will not make Israel safer. It will assure the making for another war.
http://news.yahoo.com/israel-approves-1-500-more-settler-homes-east-174221516.html
http://news.yahoo.com/israel-approves-1-500-more-settler-homes-east-174221516.html
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440sixpack
Guest
No problem, we have deep pockets.
Stay thirsty my friends
Stay thirsty my friends
Apparently you two twinks must have missed the news over the weekend. Hamas & Palestinians were marching in the streets carrying fake rockets chanting death to Israel. Death to Israel! Death to Israel! You must have over looked that Eldorado.
Then we have Iran warning Israel that they were going to destroy them! Kind of defies your so called peaceful intent theory. Wasn't just a short time ago Hamas was firing Iranian Rockets on Israel?
Seems prudent for Israel to build the settlements when they know it gives them a military advantage when the Palestinians & Hamas keep demonstrating and screaming they want them dead. Why wasn't Abbas stopping them?
Another article stated that an Israeli general stated that if they fire on Israel again we're going to deal with them in a much harsher manner and there will be hundreds more casualty's. Seems like he's running scared Eldorado.
Then we have the TOPPING ON THE SUNDAE..... OBAMA giving Israel bunker buster bombs and other sophisticated armaments..... Gee why would we do that??
Don't worry 440 OBAMA'S going to be getting more from you to pay for it! Everyone knows you have deep pockets! Eldorado you must be pleased to know Obama is giving more arms to Israel. Guess that relationship isn't as rocky as you two thought.....Hmmm wonder why....
Then we have Iran warning Israel that they were going to destroy them! Kind of defies your so called peaceful intent theory. Wasn't just a short time ago Hamas was firing Iranian Rockets on Israel?
Seems prudent for Israel to build the settlements when they know it gives them a military advantage when the Palestinians & Hamas keep demonstrating and screaming they want them dead. Why wasn't Abbas stopping them?
Another article stated that an Israeli general stated that if they fire on Israel again we're going to deal with them in a much harsher manner and there will be hundreds more casualty's. Seems like he's running scared Eldorado.
Then we have the TOPPING ON THE SUNDAE..... OBAMA giving Israel bunker buster bombs and other sophisticated armaments..... Gee why would we do that??
Don't worry 440 OBAMA'S going to be getting more from you to pay for it! Everyone knows you have deep pockets! Eldorado you must be pleased to know Obama is giving more arms to Israel. Guess that relationship isn't as rocky as you two thought.....Hmmm wonder why....
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440sixpack
Guest
I see you must have missed the article saying Israel approved ANOTHER 1500 homes on Palestinian land , stopping any chance at peace. care to justify it?
You also failed to answer why the Vatican has called for the palestinian UN vote to pass and requests that Palestine be given the chance at their own homeland.
So you're smarter than 95% of the world and your own god. isn't that special. spin it like you spin it you're on your way to yet another loss.
Stay thirsty my friends
You also failed to answer why the Vatican has called for the palestinian UN vote to pass and requests that Palestine be given the chance at their own homeland.
So you're smarter than 95% of the world and your own god. isn't that special. spin it like you spin it you're on your way to yet another loss.
Stay thirsty my friends
Some observations:
1) It's sad that some here have no problems using American tax dollars to support Israel's intransigence or wars but have an issue using those tax dollars to support the needy back home.
2) It's dismaying that some here have no problems with U.S. interests taking a back seat when it comes to Israel. You would think that U.S. interests should always prevail.
Eldorado
1) It's sad that some here have no problems using American tax dollars to support Israel's intransigence or wars but have an issue using those tax dollars to support the needy back home.
2) It's dismaying that some here have no problems with U.S. interests taking a back seat when it comes to Israel. You would think that U.S. interests should always prevail.
Eldorado
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440sixpack
Guest
They don't love the jews, they hate the muslims. as long as the jews kill arab kids they're good with it, after all there might have been a terrorist in that house an american bomb hit so it's worth it.
How about cutting Israel off to cut some expenses? you won't hear Obama or Boehner talk about that in the fiscal cliff debate. Israel is hands off, if anything we'll pay more.
Stay thirsty my friends
How about cutting Israel off to cut some expenses? you won't hear Obama or Boehner talk about that in the fiscal cliff debate. Israel is hands off, if anything we'll pay more.
Stay thirsty my friends
I ask you, why wouldn't the Muslim world care about the opinion of the Vatican? Think about it. Then think about the theology involved in the Muslim and Christian religions. The Vatican actually is a recruitment tool for Fanatical Muslims but I doubt you get that drift either.
They been fighting this battle for thousands of years and it doesn't mean anybody's smarter obviously because they can't find peace. Until each side embraces the others right to live peacefully it simply isn't going to happen. The UN approval means nothing to the factions. If Allah embraced it then things would change in a millisecond, but he's not here so they teach only his word in the stricter sects and therein lies the root of the issue. Progressive Muslims teach tolerance for other religions and people strict sects don't
They been fighting this battle for thousands of years and it doesn't mean anybody's smarter obviously because they can't find peace. Until each side embraces the others right to live peacefully it simply isn't going to happen. The UN approval means nothing to the factions. If Allah embraced it then things would change in a millisecond, but he's not here so they teach only his word in the stricter sects and therein lies the root of the issue. Progressive Muslims teach tolerance for other religions and people strict sects don't
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440sixpack
Guest
He's sending them weapons because AIPAC wants them. when AIPAC says jump congress cracks plaster.
So the pope, by far the top dog in the christian faith says palestine should be included in the UN and he wants peace talks to resume between Israel and Palistine. the pope, who god speaks through says this and the best you can do is that jibbersh?
What does AIPAC and it's minions know that the pope doesn't ? normally I wouldn't include the wishes of superstition into a debate but since this is 100% about religion I don't know how else you can debate it.
I guess gods will is trumped by AIPAC and Netanyahu in the US . oh well, I understand I don't give a crap what your god wants either.
Stay thirsty my friends
So the pope, by far the top dog in the christian faith says palestine should be included in the UN and he wants peace talks to resume between Israel and Palistine. the pope, who god speaks through says this and the best you can do is that jibbersh?
What does AIPAC and it's minions know that the pope doesn't ? normally I wouldn't include the wishes of superstition into a debate but since this is 100% about religion I don't know how else you can debate it.
I guess gods will is trumped by AIPAC and Netanyahu in the US . oh well, I understand I don't give a crap what your god wants either.
Stay thirsty my friends
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440sixpack
Guest
Once agian you only think you're smart. the joint chiefs serve the secretary of defense who serves at the pleasure of the CIC. the joint chiefs are nothing more than advisors.
Obama cracks plaster when the jews squeak because he can't do anything without congress, and AIPAC owns congress. do the math again.
Stay thirsty my friends
Obama cracks plaster when the jews squeak because he can't do anything without congress, and AIPAC owns congress. do the math again.
Stay thirsty my friends
Yes the joint chiefs advise the secretary and the president who make the decisions. Think their input may be considered in the middle east right now or are we going to let Obama and Panetta or AIPAC do the battle planning? That would be interesting wouldn't it? Lets not forget the intelligence information that we rely on in the equation think that has some bearing. Some decisions actually get made where political contributions don't factor into the plan. Think going to war may figure into one of those instances. Think congress looks at political contributions when making war decisions get serious. You believe everything's about the money when the reality says otherwise. Yes money influences politics but Obama is hardly an AIPAC fan is he. Kind of hard to hand pick a candidate from the Muslim Brotherhood and keep AIPAC happy when the choice he made supports terrorists that oppose Israel. Oops that distorted sense of logic gets you again.
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440sixpack
Guest
What we give Israel or Turkey does not constitute war, they're tools of war. and congress would double it in a heartbeat.
Obama would stand up to Netanyahu if he could, politically it would be suicide for him and many in congress who stood with him. AIPAC is the strongest lobby in America, it cannot be underestimated how much power they hold. give them some credit, they've got you by the short hairs and you can't even explain why.
Here, one of the few in congress not owned by AIPAC had the balls to speak freely last month.
Stay thirsty my friends
Obama would stand up to Netanyahu if he could, politically it would be suicide for him and many in congress who stood with him. AIPAC is the strongest lobby in America, it cannot be underestimated how much power they hold. give them some credit, they've got you by the short hairs and you can't even explain why.
Here, one of the few in congress not owned by AIPAC had the balls to speak freely last month.
Stay thirsty my friends
RELH
Long Time Member
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- 17,500
LAST EDITED ON Dec-19-12 AT 02:33AM (MST)[p]You got me laughing my head off now. If that is what you call peace in that part of the world, I would hate to see what a war is like there.
Those ragheads start killing each other off when they are not trying to kill Jews off. Carter never had much influence on bringing peace to that area. What did bring some peace was that fact that Israel was able to kick the crap out of a few invading muslim countries at the same time at different borders.
Heck Carter even failed big time on trying to get our people back from being hostages in Iran. He was so chicken livered that Iran knew he would not invade over our embassy hostages. But they knew Regan would come in with a vengence they did not want to test.
RELH
Those ragheads start killing each other off when they are not trying to kill Jews off. Carter never had much influence on bringing peace to that area. What did bring some peace was that fact that Israel was able to kick the crap out of a few invading muslim countries at the same time at different borders.
Heck Carter even failed big time on trying to get our people back from being hostages in Iran. He was so chicken livered that Iran knew he would not invade over our embassy hostages. But they knew Regan would come in with a vengence they did not want to test.
RELH
Carter initiated the historic peace treaty between Egypt and Israel. It was a coup for U.S. interests in that it removed a formidable adversary from the Arab-Israeli conflict.
Clinton initiated the 1st significant peace accord between Israel and the Palestinians. It effectively moderated Fatah to accept the concept of a negotiated peace.
Now is there a comparable effort by any Republican Administration to bring peace other than signing Nixon's disengagement accords signed after the 1973 War?
Eldorado
Clinton initiated the 1st significant peace accord between Israel and the Palestinians. It effectively moderated Fatah to accept the concept of a negotiated peace.
Now is there a comparable effort by any Republican Administration to bring peace other than signing Nixon's disengagement accords signed after the 1973 War?
Eldorado
Eldorado they both did some wonderful things yet in the end they both failed (not because of what they did), but it's the underlying currents over there that always drive out the process. You just can't seem to grasp that the people there aren't the REAL issue. These guys have shown they can live in peace yet it always blows up. That's the part you young guys can't fathom.
Now your down to blaming people and trying to make an illogical situation logical. Nixon was the first president to actually get us to reopen dialogue with China in a meaningful way he is credited with that in History and was a much more remarkable achievement than the other two's. Yet he failed us as a President with the cover up. So stop the crap.
When fanatical Muslim sects are taught and almost brainwashed from birth into believing Christians and nonbelievers are evil and must be eliminated because they're nonbelievers and it offends your god it takes on different meaning. These guys shoot their wives and daughters in the head for not following their beliefs in the home. Wake up. This isn't exactly correct but the gist is there, because it's more involved than that.
Look at how many have tried and failed yet you and 440 think this is going to happen. It's never going to happen until you get the outside influences out of the picture. Everybody knows it except the pie in the sky journalists. You guys think the press has it right? Guess again it's been proven hundreds of times over. Why can we make peace after world wars and yet can't here? It's time to wake the hell up and quit living in fantasy land. History and statistics support what we're trying to tell you two, but you're so dug in that you won't admit it. The fact is if peace comes we'd all be happy but some force in the equation doesn't want peace and until that force does it's all just wasted effort and BS. Here let's try a different approach you two prove us wrong.
Now your down to blaming people and trying to make an illogical situation logical. Nixon was the first president to actually get us to reopen dialogue with China in a meaningful way he is credited with that in History and was a much more remarkable achievement than the other two's. Yet he failed us as a President with the cover up. So stop the crap.
When fanatical Muslim sects are taught and almost brainwashed from birth into believing Christians and nonbelievers are evil and must be eliminated because they're nonbelievers and it offends your god it takes on different meaning. These guys shoot their wives and daughters in the head for not following their beliefs in the home. Wake up. This isn't exactly correct but the gist is there, because it's more involved than that.
Look at how many have tried and failed yet you and 440 think this is going to happen. It's never going to happen until you get the outside influences out of the picture. Everybody knows it except the pie in the sky journalists. You guys think the press has it right? Guess again it's been proven hundreds of times over. Why can we make peace after world wars and yet can't here? It's time to wake the hell up and quit living in fantasy land. History and statistics support what we're trying to tell you two, but you're so dug in that you won't admit it. The fact is if peace comes we'd all be happy but some force in the equation doesn't want peace and until that force does it's all just wasted effort and BS. Here let's try a different approach you two prove us wrong.
440 I know what Aipac does just like you do. It seems that you finally accepted reality in what you understood early on, we're going to support Israel, which has been my position all along.
The widely circulated press release about us sending weapons to Israel was just another move in the game. Israel has the capability to disburse those weapons so that again elevates the threat. The fact is they're probably using this as a warning and at the same time moving supplies into the region for what may be coming. If Iran's as progressive as you think, they'll see the reality of what's coming and get to the table. The ships being offloaded speak volumes as to what's coming and the carrier strike groups only reinforce the picture.
They will give them some time, lets hope they see the signs and decide to face reality. The game has moved to another level. It's their move now lets hope they make one of the only smart ones they've got left.
The widely circulated press release about us sending weapons to Israel was just another move in the game. Israel has the capability to disburse those weapons so that again elevates the threat. The fact is they're probably using this as a warning and at the same time moving supplies into the region for what may be coming. If Iran's as progressive as you think, they'll see the reality of what's coming and get to the table. The ships being offloaded speak volumes as to what's coming and the carrier strike groups only reinforce the picture.
They will give them some time, lets hope they see the signs and decide to face reality. The game has moved to another level. It's their move now lets hope they make one of the only smart ones they've got left.
Boskee,
What are these outside influences you constantly speak of? The only true outside influence is the U.S. Now, Iran is involved in the region because of the military presence of the U.S. in countries near (Israel) and around it (Afghanistan, Qatar, Turkey).
You will not end terrorism overnight but you can begin to deny the oxygen that fuels the hate in that region which is the issue of the occupied territories. The seething enmity against Israel and the U.S. is because of the continuing occupation. The establishment of a Palestinian state would greatly diminish that anger and through time resentment against both Israel and the U.S.
The Palestinians would not be stupid to allow terrorists to work out of a Palestinian state as it would mean severe Israeli retaliation and world condemnation. Believe it or not that most Palestinians want to live simply in peace in their own homeland.
Eldorado
What are these outside influences you constantly speak of? The only true outside influence is the U.S. Now, Iran is involved in the region because of the military presence of the U.S. in countries near (Israel) and around it (Afghanistan, Qatar, Turkey).
You will not end terrorism overnight but you can begin to deny the oxygen that fuels the hate in that region which is the issue of the occupied territories. The seething enmity against Israel and the U.S. is because of the continuing occupation. The establishment of a Palestinian state would greatly diminish that anger and through time resentment against both Israel and the U.S.
The Palestinians would not be stupid to allow terrorists to work out of a Palestinian state as it would mean severe Israeli retaliation and world condemnation. Believe it or not that most Palestinians want to live simply in peace in their own homeland.
Eldorado
4
440sixpack
Guest
It's ok not to try, because trying is the first step to failure. we get it wingnuts.
If peace with the palestinians is not reached which will run out first? our credit or the worlds patience? palestinian numbers are increasing, and world opinion is shifting in favor of them. it's us against the world and we're a debtor nation. do the math if you can.
Stay thirsty my friends
If peace with the palestinians is not reached which will run out first? our credit or the worlds patience? palestinian numbers are increasing, and world opinion is shifting in favor of them. it's us against the world and we're a debtor nation. do the math if you can.
Stay thirsty my friends
LAST EDITED ON Dec-19-12 AT 12:29PM (MST)[p] Eldorado keep an open mind, how do you explain Abbas bowing to Hamas & Iran? If he truly was the leader of his people why not just keep the terrorists out of Palestine, like you suggest ( he can't). That's where the smoke and mirrors comes into it and why the Palestinians have always been sheep.
It's not just the occupation, that clearly didn't help I agree, but the guys pulling the strings don't live there, never have. That's why it never gets resolved. Very rich factions are all playing behind the scenes over there and that's why it keeps going on. Some of these same factions fund terrorism and have for years. You and I want the same thing over there a peaceful resolution, I just understand why it's more difficult than you want it to be to some extent. You're right about them wanting to live in peace on both sides.
One Example, Bin Laden's father was very wealthy builder and had given him a ton money early in life that he moved and later used to help fund Al Queda. But we know Al Queda has received money from many other sources throughout the region drug money included and other means. Decades of oil revenues have created vast wealth throughout the region, vast multi generational wealth, Muslim wealth, and strict sect fanatical Muslim wealth......more money than we can imagine so who do we want to play with that we don't like...... It's easy to buy things with wealth like that even lives.
It's not just the occupation, that clearly didn't help I agree, but the guys pulling the strings don't live there, never have. That's why it never gets resolved. Very rich factions are all playing behind the scenes over there and that's why it keeps going on. Some of these same factions fund terrorism and have for years. You and I want the same thing over there a peaceful resolution, I just understand why it's more difficult than you want it to be to some extent. You're right about them wanting to live in peace on both sides.
One Example, Bin Laden's father was very wealthy builder and had given him a ton money early in life that he moved and later used to help fund Al Queda. But we know Al Queda has received money from many other sources throughout the region drug money included and other means. Decades of oil revenues have created vast wealth throughout the region, vast multi generational wealth, Muslim wealth, and strict sect fanatical Muslim wealth......more money than we can imagine so who do we want to play with that we don't like...... It's easy to buy things with wealth like that even lives.
Boskee,
Abbas has kept the West Bank essentially terrorist free. He has no control what Hamas does in Gaza. He has called repeatedly for negotiations but has been repeatedly rebuffed by Israel. This political fallout has lead to the rise of Hamas at the expense of the moderate Fatah. Whether intentional or not, Israeli policy has effectively marginalized Abbas as a suitable peace partner. Abbas is now thrust to give lip service to Hamas and others for fear of losing credibility and even power. But make no mistake, Abbas is the best hope that Israel has to end 60 years of enmity between the 2 peoples. The truth is that Israel has always had the keys to a lasting peace. The question is will Israel use those keys to bring peace?
Eldorado
Abbas has kept the West Bank essentially terrorist free. He has no control what Hamas does in Gaza. He has called repeatedly for negotiations but has been repeatedly rebuffed by Israel. This political fallout has lead to the rise of Hamas at the expense of the moderate Fatah. Whether intentional or not, Israeli policy has effectively marginalized Abbas as a suitable peace partner. Abbas is now thrust to give lip service to Hamas and others for fear of losing credibility and even power. But make no mistake, Abbas is the best hope that Israel has to end 60 years of enmity between the 2 peoples. The truth is that Israel has always had the keys to a lasting peace. The question is will Israel use those keys to bring peace?
Eldorado
I doubt it but I wish that wasn't the case. Based on recent events would you if your family's safety was at stake? Would you sit & negotiate peace with any party that can't assure or control a lasting peace. I'm not being flip with you that's the reality of the damn mess. All we can do is hope they find a way.
4
440sixpack
Guest
The elephant in the room is the illegal building, there is no path for a two state solution if it continues. until Israel bows to world pressure , even from us, there is NO chance at peace.
AIPAC doesn't want a two state solution, they don't want peace they want the palestinians gone. if this is not the case say why the building continues as the peace taslks stall because of it.
Everything else you can discuss about this conflict is useless until this roadblock to peace is addressed. who is blocking peace negotiations and why? answer it without riddles, if you don't have an excuse you're comfortable with then maybe you should take that as your sign.
Stay thirsty my friends
AIPAC doesn't want a two state solution, they don't want peace they want the palestinians gone. if this is not the case say why the building continues as the peace taslks stall because of it.
Everything else you can discuss about this conflict is useless until this roadblock to peace is addressed. who is blocking peace negotiations and why? answer it without riddles, if you don't have an excuse you're comfortable with then maybe you should take that as your sign.
Stay thirsty my friends
The settlements are clearly an obstacle to peace but should not inhibit peace talks. Abbas understands that if he allows the settlements to scuttle negotiations, Israel will always have a ploy to impede any peace talks. By calling for talks regardless of Israel building more settlements, Abbas denies Israel a powerful tool in its arsenal to block peace. The settlements will have to be negotiated anyways. The trick is to get Israel to the peace table.
Eldorado
Eldorado
4
440sixpack
Guest
As long as dumb azz americans are willing to cough up cash and military aid inspite of antyhing Israel does they will not negotiate. our own government condemns Israels actions as they hand them the cash. priceless.
We can keep it up a while longer so I don't see much hope until we go broke. should I say we admit we're broke.
Stay thirsty my friends
We can keep it up a while longer so I don't see much hope until we go broke. should I say we admit we're broke.
Stay thirsty my friends
dirtygrass
Active Member
- Messages
- 623
440sixpack,
What crimes has Israel committed and against who? I was always hunting during history class.
What crimes has Israel committed and against who? I was always hunting during history class.
LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-12 AT 07:40AM (MST)[p]Eldorado you make a lot of sense. But if they would give Gaza to Israel you'd have a better shot at it. The Palestinians want Gaza and Gaza is at the root of the issues. If Israel can control Gaza then they can protect all.
Now we have new issues to deal with since Assad gave a missile system to Iran who knows all hell is about to break loose. This was a dumb move on Iran's part because it only elevates the weapons Israel may have to use to suppress the threat. So now by waiting for diplomacy to work (which was prudent) we now face a bigger threat, since Iran seized the opportunity to bring in new weapons. So now the country furnishing missiles to Hamas has new missiles..........They made the worst move they could make to help the peace process on both fronts. So much for the leap of faith....see how that outside influence stuff works. Bing, bang, BOOM, and BBBBBBOOOOOOOOOMMMMBBBB, aren't too far off now are they! Iran better get smart or they're going to get real dead!
gee 440 looks like the old guy was few dozen moves ahead of you on the chessboard on this one too. Let's hope they wise up quick.
One can never underestimate the power of good intell, The Israeli's had it figured out OBAMA once again like Benghazzi, not so much. Maybe he'll learn to listen to those who know, instead of showing them how easy it is for the Arab world to snooker him.
Now we have new issues to deal with since Assad gave a missile system to Iran who knows all hell is about to break loose. This was a dumb move on Iran's part because it only elevates the weapons Israel may have to use to suppress the threat. So now by waiting for diplomacy to work (which was prudent) we now face a bigger threat, since Iran seized the opportunity to bring in new weapons. So now the country furnishing missiles to Hamas has new missiles..........They made the worst move they could make to help the peace process on both fronts. So much for the leap of faith....see how that outside influence stuff works. Bing, bang, BOOM, and BBBBBBOOOOOOOOOMMMMBBBB, aren't too far off now are they! Iran better get smart or they're going to get real dead!
gee 440 looks like the old guy was few dozen moves ahead of you on the chessboard on this one too. Let's hope they wise up quick.
One can never underestimate the power of good intell, The Israeli's had it figured out OBAMA once again like Benghazzi, not so much. Maybe he'll learn to listen to those who know, instead of showing them how easy it is for the Arab world to snooker him.
4
440sixpack
Guest
What crimes has Israel committed and against who? that has to be a joke, very funny. if you're asking about convictions , well our money and power has prevented that. the UN vote will make it harder for us to shield Israel from here forward though.
Since you didn't go to school have someone start by reading you the story of Deir Yassin in 1948. we can work up from there.
Stay thirsty my friends
Since you didn't go to school have someone start by reading you the story of Deir Yassin in 1948. we can work up from there.
Stay thirsty my friends
4
440sixpack
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-12 AT 07:05PM (MST)[p]A big " F " YOU to the organization which created the state of Israel. and yet some wonder why the jews have always been unpopular.
Get your checkbooks out wingnuts thanks to you they're our liability .
http://news.yahoo.com/israels-netanyahu-vows-build-jerusalem-203945740.html
Stay thirsty my friends
Get your checkbooks out wingnuts thanks to you they're our liability .
http://news.yahoo.com/israels-netanyahu-vows-build-jerusalem-203945740.html
Stay thirsty my friends
Relax a whole lot may happen over there before this damn mess is finished. We need them as much as they need us right now especially in that area.
Think about it. They've been there a lot longer than we have that has benefits in times like these. Bigger things are at stake than a damn housing development.
Think about it. They've been there a lot longer than we have that has benefits in times like these. Bigger things are at stake than a damn housing development.
dirtygrass
Active Member
- Messages
- 623
Typical Liberal response!
