Like it or not the new late hunts were approved

[Antler1]

http://www.wildlife.utah.gov/news/06-12/board.php

I still think that the waiting period and loss of bonus points should apply to these hunts but what do I care. I am points rich and can get them reinstated if I shoot a pisscutter. Talk about another loophole.

 

[ktc]

I agree Antler1. Mrs. ktc is point rich also. No need to hunt those general season units when a guaranteed 5 point comes along every year. Just think, when you get sick of shooting 5 points and a 478 monster walks out you can call it good.

Another genius way to "improve odds" and move people through.

 

[RACKMASTER]

Southern deer is still a 5 dayer hunt next year too!
rm

 

[basinboy]

I hope they are committed to patrolling the northern region so when guys wait for the shed season to arrive there is still some horns on the ground. what is the fine for picking up a shed before the season starts. If its not hefty people will just pay it and go on.
BasinBoy

 

[HornyMan]

SO no waiting and no loss of bonus points if you draw this tag? I didn't read anything about that on there.

 

[Antler1]

Hunters who draw the permits will be encouraged to take a bull elk with five or less antler points. Hunters who take a larger bull will not be allowed to keep the bull. They'll also lose any bonus points they've accrued, and they'll incur a waiting period that won't allow them to apply for a limited-entry elk permit for five years.

It doesn't exactly spell it out but it implies that the only hunters that will lose points and will incur a waiting period will be the ones that shoot a bull with more then 5 points.

 

[ClorideRUS]

I just don't get it. I can understand them not wanting the game harassed after a hard winter but there's nothing to prevent people from going into the field they just can't pickup sheds.

How many are going to pass up a shed if they see one while out ejnoying the spring? ZERO. About the same number that don't pick up arrow heads on Federal Land.

So now the DWR has another huge Law Enforcement issue on their hands. They ##### about not having enough resource to patrol what they have now, Poachers etc.

Maybe they'll have a special early shed hunt for those that turn in illegal shed hunters.

Oh!Oh! There go all of the posts in the shed forum in the spring.

RUS

 

[huntin100]

I'm sure some will still try to shed hunt. I now in some states if you get caught you get fined and loose your hunting privleges. I wonder how that will affect feed grounds and private land. It did say all land I believe.

 

[huntin100]

One other question. Will bonus points be used or taken into consideration on the management elk hunts. I was also told it could be a 5 point on one side and anything else on the other side. Does anyone know if this is true? Thanks Greg

 

[cantkillathing]

MClaughlin is full of crap, he even stated on the San juan there is 65 bull per 100 cows, right at the objective where you can reach the age objective of 6 to 7 yr old bulls.

Also even if you have max points and apply for this hunt, yes you will get the tag, but the problem is you wont gain a point, so then you fall back a point. So it will be stupid to fall from Max points to the next group and so on.

Still stupid to have this hunt period on the San Juan, our unit can only have 1300 elk, and lets say it is 100 bull to 100 cows, that means we have 650 bulls atleast 200 bulls are on the CWMU's so that is 450 bulls left on the san juan unit, out of the 450 they gave out 92 tags last year, that is over %20 of the bulls killed, do you think the san juan unit can afford to hunt more bulls, there are already people that draw these tags that shoot the big 5X's they are already being shot up. But the san Juan is not at the 100/100 they are at 65/100, it was even stated by our local biologist that this is the count.

Also if any of you were at the SE rack meeting McLaughin admitted that he wants to bring the elk herds to 25 bulls to 100 cows, what an idiot, you cant reach your age objectives doing this.

 

[huntin100]

I have been on the San Juan alot of the past few years. Have not seen one person shoot a 5 point. Seen some 300 class six pointers shot. 65 bulls per 100 cows is too many. 35-50 would be better. They need more cows. I guess we will have to see what the tooth data says. I was told that bonus points may not be used for this management hunt. A person with one, may have the same chance as someone that has 12. Does anyone know if this is correct??

 

[ktc]

I spoke out of turn. However, what does this mean?

Hunters who draw the permits will be encouraged to take a bull elk with five or less antler points. Hunters who take a larger bull will not be allowed to keep the bull. They'll also lose any bonus points they've accrued, and they'll incur a waiting period that won't allow them to apply for a limited-entry elk permit for five years.

If you kill a bigger bull you poached?

 

[cantkillathing]

You must not of been here enough, I seen 3 this year taken, and one last year that was shot by round mountain, 2 the year before, they are being shot, a local shot one 3 years ago, 350 5x5,

Tell me how you can reach the age objective with 35-50 bulls per 100 cows, you can't, not on the San Juan, you have to realize they will not let our herd grow over 1,000 head on the san Juan, and 300 resident head on the flats, the farm land towards colorado. Total of 1300. YOu cant reach the age objective of 6 to 7 year olds. 65/100 should be the lowest ever for the san juan

 

[browtine]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-01-06 AT 03:25PM (MST)[p]
here is a pisscutter 5pt (not broke either)... Unreal that they wont loose points.. JUDAS!!!

http://www.browtine.com/wtf/5pt.wmv

Later, Brandon

 

[ktc]

Hunters are "encouraged"? Is there an option?

Sounds like a nice way to say YOU HAVE TO KILL A MANAGEMENT BULL?

I agree, you kill an LE elk and you lose points. I can see the need, just let opportunist shoot them? Isn't that what they wanted?

 

[huntin100]

Can't kill,
You have a good point on age and population base. There have been conflicting numbers bulls to cows. 65/100 and 100/100. It would be nice to know the truth. I think everyone who draws the management tag should loose their points. I just saw quite a few 300-340 5x5 and 5x6's that genetically would not likly get much bigger. I think they should kill some and get them out of the gene pool.

 

[proutdoors]

That bull looks like he has six points on one, if so he would NOT be a legal bull for this hunt. A 'legal' bull must have 5 points or less on BOTH sides.

 

[Antler1]

>
>Also even if you have max
>points and apply for this
>hunt, yes you will get
>the tag, but the problem
>is you wont gain a
>point, so then you fall
>back a point. So it
>will be stupid to fall
>from Max points to the
>next group and so on.

If that is true it makes more since. I still think it would be better to issue points and take them when a person draws and they wait the waiting period.

In the future when they get the herd to objective and do away with the hunt I can already hear the whining about being behind on points just like the AR301 applicants.

 

[cantkillathing]

That is why we hold rack meetings, what was stupid is if anyone would have attended the SE rack meeting, we had our local biologist there, and he stated 65 per 100, Mclaughlin states 65 per 100 cows, then he got caught up on it and then tried to say 100/100, So the rack board asked the local biologist what the story was and he said 65/100 as of the most recent count.

But then they go to the other rack meetings, such as southern, central, northern, etc. and fill you guys full of crap, because no one is there to call them on there crap. The other Rack meetings had no place to vote on this issue, they know nothing about it. The DWR pulled a quick one to have all Rack boards vote on the issue, so if SE is against and the rest are for it then it will go through, this is bull crap.

The other Rack meeting should have only voted on things in their area's.

What was good about the SE rack meeting they told the DWR that they would not vote on the Phuvant, and west desert, areas because they know nothing about those areas.

All we are going to do, is in 5 years we will be crying about the elk herds, because there are no big bull anymore, Lets just shoot them all, who cares anyway. Right.

 

[cantkillathing]

One more thing, I would agree on the management hunts only if they reduced the other permits, so the number of bulls taken is the same as last year.

 

[huntin100]

Pro, I heard it was a 5x anything. Some said it was 5x5 or smaller. A friend on the northern RAC said it passed as a 5x anything bull. Is this true? Thanks

 

[WARBIRDUM]

Lets say a huge bull has made it past all the rut hunts but he has broken his tine on one side making him a 6x5 that looks now as if he is a management bull and you harvest him.Would this be a legal bull?I can see huge bulls being killed that are busted which are not management bulls but broken bulls during this late hunt.And not lose any bonus points when you do draw this so called management bull tag makes no sense to me.
I dont see this working to well on taking management bulls and also getting applicants through the system any faster.

 

[Silentstalker]

As I understood it yesterday, the bull could not have 6 or more points on either antler. He must be a 5 point or less. That will protect most of the broken bulls. I had to leave before the vote but a friend told me that the waiting period was in place and the points were lost. Maybe he was mistaken.??

I believe the points should be lost and the waiting period in place no matter what bull they kill. This hunt is targeting certain gene pools on these units. Not to help odds or cycle people through the system faster. Have a great day!

Chad

 

[Deerlove]

Chad, it should do BOTH. Why let them keep their pts?

 

[cantkillathing]

A 5X5 or smaller is not a management hunt it is a rag horn hunt, yes there is some big 5x5 but people are going to shoot some rag horn 4x and so on, and these bulls have potential to become bigger bulls, so I dont know why they even clasified it as a management hunt, because management was to take the bigger mature 5x's that ment 5x5, 5x6, 5x7, 5x anything, this was to try and take some of the inferior bulls, but it is know a raghorn hunt which will accomplish nothing but taking more bulls, taking bulls that have potential to be the 400 bull.

 

[rumproast]

No disrespect to my fellow Forumites in Utah, but, man, your state is messed up. It sounds like you've got a bunch of idiots running the show (read: money-grubbin' politicians).

 

[Silentstalker]

I agree with you guy's on the merits of this hunt. It was envisioned by guy's seeing those huge 5x6's, 5x5's, 6x4's etc. The problem is these bulls will be eliminated the 1st year or maybe 2. Then this becomes a cull hunt. These units NEED harvest. whether you want to believ it or not. Some of these bulls must be thinned out in order for the herds to be stabilized. This will not ruin the units. In fact it will help them. There will only be a few tags and these units can handle that for sure.