Mountain Horses

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bcpse

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Im just starting to research on which horse I want to buy, I will be using it for hunting, hunting only! What are some good breeds they are know for non gun shy and just good horses for packing and hunting.
Thanks
Bridger
 
Any quarter horse will do. Its more about the time you spend with them than the breed. You cant put it in the pasture all year and expect them to do well on the mtn hunting or packing.

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I prefer Fox Trotters. They are incredibly smooth and not as wide as a quarter horse.

The distinguished characteristic of the foxtrotter is the foxtrot gait; the horse walks with the front feet and trots with the hind feet. This extremely sure footed gait gives the rider little jar since the hind feet seem to slide into place. The foxtrot is a rhythmic gait and the horse can maintain it for long periods of time with little fatigue. The Missouri Fox Trotter also performs a rapid flat foot walk and a 'rocking chair' canter.

The Missouri Fox Trotter travels with his head and tail slightly elevated giving the animal a graceful carriage. The rhythmic beat of their hooves, along with the nodding action of the head, give these horses an appearance of relaxation and poise. Old timers call the Missouri Fox Trotting Horse a 'people' horse that was bred to be gentle, loving and willing to please.

Missouri Fox Trotting horses are extremely intelligent and have the heart and stamina to attempt any task asked of them. Their versatility and conformation allows them to pull a surrey, work cattle, run barrels or travel miles and miles. Because of their stamina and smooth ground covering gaits, they have also become very popular with field trial competitors and those involved in the sport of long distance trail riding.



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There are no big bucks in Utah! LOL
 
D13er for the win...

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Disclaimer:
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Course it depends on the terrain but in really rough country, where you're putting a lot of hard miles on, the heavy quarter has proven itself over the years. A lot of the Canadian boys break-down a regular quarter pretty darn quick. Heavy quarters are not something your daughter is going to pole bend on but you did say, "only for hunting".

I'll offer another tidbit: One good one of any bred is light-years better than a bronc of any kind. Disposition trumps a lot of other traits, IMO.

DC
 
The purchase of a horse, to use exclusively for hunting is just plain stupid.....sorry, I simply couldn't come up with a better word.

You can't just pen it up and use it when you want to go hunting.

It will need to eat, chit, need shoes, vet care, grooming, stall space, heat in the winter, training on a regular basis, pack gear, a horse trailer and a CHITLOAD of etc, etc, etc.

It costs about $250 a month, on average, to keep a horse in todays world......and one moderate vet bill can double that.

A good pack horse requires more training time than a stupid dog.......so does a good packer.

If you are NOT experienced with horses in the first place, you better rethink the whole idea.

There is a lot you need to know. And a hundred things that will go wrong.
Doctoring a cut.
Shoeing a horse.
Properly packing a horse.
Repairing equipment.
Trailering a horse.
Finding a lost horse.
Treating yourself for bites, kicks, stepped on toes, busted gun stocks.
Burying a horse.

You would save money renting a horse AND a wrangler, 2 or 3 times a year.
 
Nickman hit the nail on the head. Buying a horse "for hunting only" is not very smart. I own horses ane ride several times a week. I use them for hunting as well. It takes a lot of time with the hores to get them tuned up for a hunting trip. Be prepared to replace shoes, doctor cuts, treat colic and handle rodeos if you take them hunting. If you will use a horse all year, it is a great thing to own and use a horse. If you only ride one week a year you are in for a lot of trouble.

Phantom Hunter
 
250$ a month is a little high, mine cost a dollar a day during the winter, and the price of hay during the summer, plus shots and worm medicine, in ten years Ive had to go to the vet three times. Im probably lucky, and there is a lot of truth in what nickman said, they can be a real pain when your hunting, big animals with lots of energy.
 
>mine cost a dollar
>a day during the winter,
>and the price of hay
>during the summer,

Here's a good rule of thumb. A horse will eat its weight a month. Therefore a 1000 pound horse will eat approximately half a ton of hay each month. Piper, I don't know where you buy decent horse hay for $60 a ton but I bet you get what you pay for.


Decent well-broke saddle horse $1500
Saddle $500
Alfalfa grass hay $120 a ton
One ride in a Care-flight helicopter for your kid that was crushed by the "well-broke" horse and had the saddlehorn driven into his pancreas, surgery to repair internal injuries, 11 days in intensive care, months of rehab, life changing dietary needs - PRICELESS!

If you're not a VERY experienced horseman with more need than just for hunting forget the hayburning stable nag. And whoever it was that used the words "smart" and "horse" in the same sentence should be horse whipped.


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LAST EDITED ON Sep-29-10 AT 11:04AM (MST)[p]nickman....do you have your horse its own little bedroom in your house, yes most of your arguement has a valued point but a horse needing a heater is a little obscured.
If your going to buy a horse dont just buy it to hunt you cant just pull a horse out of the pen and say lets go if it hasnt been used in 10 months...

oh ya....fox trotter...they dont need heaters! :)
 
OK.........maybe heat was a bad choice of words, when what I meant was a place where a horse can be protected in the winter.
It amazes me how many people own horses and provide them with NO shelter at all. You can drive anywhere in this country and see horses corraled in just an open field in 100 degree weather or 0 degree weather.

Pisses me off, actually.
 
yes i agree.we have a little barn for the horses up here where it gets -20 that is needed... i just had to raz ya a lil thought it was kinda funny. no hard feelings.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-29-10 AT 03:35PM (MST)[p]+a million on the Foxtrotters. They are extrememly sure footed and they have a very smooth ride. My trotters generally travel an average of 3-4 miles an hour depending on their conditioningand difficulty of terrain. They can go much faster but thats a general rule of thumb. I have a 3 year old right now that I take most places my tried and true 15 year old goes. As for any breed I'm sure you could find an absolute pile of crap but from what I have seen in the hills, they are a great choice for endurance and getting to your destination safely, quick and comfortable.
I would agree if all you want to do is hunt with them a couple times a year then horses,mules,llamas whatever may not be the right way to go.
They ARE expensive also.

Me and big red a couple weeks ago. (3 years old, rides like a caddy)
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Sit tall in the saddle, hold your head up high, keep your eyes fixed to where the trail meets the sky...
 
Well, started with a quarter horse, but since have graduated to a tennessee walker. Quick feet, big, gaited. Most guys have it right it takes a whole lot more time and money to keep horses. Off season riding, training, feeding.

However I have enjoyed ever minute of it. There has been a lot of guys doing this for years that once they see us on our walkers they want one.

We can do somewhere in the 8MPH and still sit in saddle and drink a beer. So they are smooth.

We keep shoes on year round cause we ride pretty much year round. So it runs about $100 per month per horse.



Outside of a horse is good for the inside of a man.
 
NVbighorn -your right, where I board them it cost a dollar a day for six months plus the price of hay for about 3 months, (100$ plus per ton) and thats probably a better deal than most.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-29-10 AT 07:38PM (MST)[p]I would ride it almost every day I would keep it next to my house in about 6 acres with other horses, I would take it on trails with my friends and stuff it wouldnt just set tell opening day! lol! I know its going to cost some $$ to maintain but I think its worth it! I was just wondering what breeds were more common for mountain riding. Thanks for all the great info! also the horse will be on friends or familys property that they know how to deal with horse problems so I will learn as I go but i am in good hands that way!
 
SWbuckmaster and 30inch, are Tennessee Walkers and Foxtrotters good to use as packing horses? It seems to me that 8 mph and 4 mph is a little fast when packing a horse and your load would bounce and shift. I can see the advantage of a horse that moves out and has a lot of endurance due to his gait. You could cover a lot of ground. But just how good does that work with packing an elk out or other heavey loads?

I've used quarter horses for years and mine are heavy and slow. Which is how I personally like it. I like to smell the roses and look at the scenery but sometimes I can see where covering a lot of ground is beneficial. Fast or slow is a personal preference but like someone said above, disposition is better than any other trait. You can have good or bad in any breed so its basically up to the style of horse and riding you prefer. If you do decide to jump into the life of owning horses then I suggest hanging out with people who have them already and learn everything you can about them before you buy one. Take riding lessons from someone who knows how to break, train and fix problems horses develope. Don't live with a problem but learn to correct it. Hope this advice helps you out. fatrooster.
 
Although everyone has there own opinion I prefer a quarter/draft cross. If you can find one with dark feet they don't need shoes, they are very calm and built like a tank. I routinely pack mine with 300lbs. and they can go all day. Mine are about 15 hands and 1400 lbs. Just built really stout and solid. I have had a lot of horses over the years and for trail riding and hunting which is all I do with mine they are fantastic!
 
for all of the inexperienced who want a critter for hunting, take some good advice, save yourself a lot of trouble, and get an old, gentle, hard footed, tough as nails, long eared MULE. find someone who knows, ie a lifelong outfitter, cattle rancher etc, that lives near you and have them help you find the right one.

with the right mule you can:
run em bare foot
feed em mid to low quality
not touch em for 10 months out of the year

and then go catch em, take em to the hills and they will not let you hurt them or yourself, they will carry you around in steep nasty coutry, pack elk, not spook, stay fat on sparse mtn grass.

i have helped several of my friends do this very thing and 10 years later they have not regretted it.
 
Not that you care what another person thinks but if you want horses the biggest thing you better be willing to do is put in the miles. I have been around horses my whole life, we ride them year round, and they pack game out every year, so it is no problem for them. I trust the horses enough I put my kids on top of the pack saddle when packing elk out, but I also lead a pack horse all the time. If I have room in the trailer for an extra horse it goes no matter what time of year it is. Horses are expensive, but a lot depends on the owner, I shoe my own, I have stitched up horses on many occasions, I built my own pack saddle and bags, and my horse was $300 but I train my own horses. If you are willing to do all of that all year round horses are the path for you, if not maybe a Hondahorse will be better. And in my opinion a big stout quarter horse is hard to beat in the mountains.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-10 AT 08:30AM (MST)[p]As far as the walkers. We have a mountain saddle horse that we normally pack on cause he is rougher to ride. We did pack a bull on one of the walkers this year and had a 10 mile pack out job. We normally just take it slow when packing that kind of load becasue of the shifting antlers and such.

However it was getting close to dinner time, we were out of whiskey, so we picked up the pace because I seen the antlers where not moving at all. We gaited out of there for the last couple of miles and the antlers never bounced, moved or nothing.

We even made a little video for a old cowboy friend that would call BS. But he believs now.

Anyways we dont always gait, we slow down and smell the roses alot. But when we want to get it on - we can and it does not beat you up.

I killed my bull at 3:30 in afternoon this year, I was 12+ miles from trailhead, it was flat and good trail. Anyways when I got pics and everything it was 4:30 when I got in the saddle. I rode out gathered 2 pack horses, saddled them up then back to my bull with about 10 minutes of daylight left.

The one it the pic is 17 hands which is my buddies, mine is 16 - 2, so we have tall horses, go over dead falls easily with tall horses.

Happened to know a mule skinner that had absolute hell cause he had his mules, never touched them till time to elk hunt, bronc city, anyway I say no thanks to slow, hard headed, dumb animals like that.
 
Everyone has shared some great thoughts here.....pros, cons and which direction one might head. FYI, Foxtrotters, Walkers, any gaited horse can slow down and walk with a slow quarter horse. One thought would be if you get a couple you probably want the same height horses so they can walk out and travel the same speed comfortably.


Sit tall in the saddle, hold your head up high, keep your eyes fixed to where the trail meets the sky...
 
READ IT ALL, THE VALUABLE INFORMATION IS TOWARD THE END, REGARDING THE INTERACTION OF MULES AND THEIR OWNERS.

Never had the guts to own but here's she says:

Mule Psychology 101: Mule's Are Better
By Cindy K. (McKinnon) Roberts

This has been an on going argument between horseman and mule person since the beginning time. My experience with mules have been unique and rewarding. Hopefully, the following information will answer your questions.
It must be love. All I know is...from the moment I laid eyes on this beautiful and intriguing creature, it captured my heart. It literally took possession of my soul....then my wallet. First the ears, then the bray. It was too much. I became "mule struck". I was so spellbound from communicating with this hybrid, I instantly new that I had to free them from any pain and suffering. My friends said, "Snap out of it!" It was too late. My ?mule sense? developed so quickly that I realized my passion with mules would never end. It soon turned into a crusade to educate people about the saddle mule and a better way to train them. This is what prompted me to film and produce The Behavior & Training Of The Saddle Mule Video.
My friends thought I was nuts. All those years of riding beautiful horses and now they are convinced that I am living in a mule fantasy world. You see, every ?cowboy? has an idea as to what equine beauty is. To the educated horseman, it is athletic ability a wide jaw, large eyes, alert and small ears, round full hips, straight legs, refinement, excellent muscle, quality feet as well as a good temperament. With the exception of the ears, the same holds true for the mule. An educated mule person has high standards for developing quality saddle mules. There is a commitment with professional mule breeders, to develop the mule breed to being the best show quality possible.

The mule being a hybrid, is sterile and cannot reproduce. They have 63 chromosomes, which do not pair off evenly as they do in other species. So your grand champion show mule is not able to
stand at stud for a nice stud fee. This is the frustrating part about hybrids.

Interestingly, Mother Nature has passed on absolute traits to the mule. Their extreme intelligence came from their sire, the jack. Their athletic way of going comes from the horse mare. Amusingly, the mule is able to bray only on the exhale. Where as a donkey (his sire) can bray (hee-haw) while breathing in and out. A well developed mule has acquired the definitive features from his jack and yet has the style and grace from his mare. Since the horse mare raises the mule from birth, it is essential to select a mare with an easy and pleasing attitude. In my opinion, inferior breeding produces ugly mules. Poor breeding will produce poor quality stock...in mules as well as horses.

For those of you that desire for captivating conversation over dinner tonight, I have include the following dazzling mule history: During the ruling of King Ferdinand (around 1480) throughout Spain, there was a law proclaiming it unlawful to ride a mule! This was because the resident farmers were neglecting their breeding programs for horses. As a result, poor quality horses were being produced. It was important too have excellent horses for breeding stock, so that the royal family and their knights had superior animals for battle. Vanity was the true reason for the King and Queen to be seen only on beautiful horses. While the farmers and peasants in Spain were ?mule struck?, the royal horse population suffered. This prompted the "no mules law". Due to the ban on mules, world explorer Christopher Columbus, had to get a special permission from the King, just so he could ride his very own mule. You see, Columbus had back problems, and the mule was his ride of choice.

Years later, our first President-Commander and Chief, George Washington became our first mule breeder in the United States. George Washington wrote to the King of Spain inquiring about the possibility of purchasing good quality breeding stock. The King responded by sending him two Andalusian jacks and jennets as a gift. One of the jacks died during his long voyage to America but the others arrived safely at Mount Vernon in December of 1785. The surviving jack was named ?Royal Gift?. Some time later, Marquis de Lafayette sent General Washington a black Maltese jack named ?King of Malta? and several jennets. These animals were bred with his Andalusians to become the foundation of American Mammoth Jackstock. At 14 hands, (56 inches) the Maltese jack was considerably smaller than ?Royal Gift? who was 16 hands (64 inches) and considered a superb jack by all accounts. At last, the Spanish embargo ended in 1813 and new bloodlines were then imported from Spain, allowing Majorca and Malta to strengthen the foundation laid by George Washington. And that is how the mule got his ?big start? in America.

The mule has played a very big role throughout the development of the United States. They were used as teams for work and transportation and usually were selected as mounts by men of the frontier. The famous 20 Mule Team Borax is an excellent example of an American legend made during the 1880s. However, life was risky on the desert trail back then. The Native American Apache people liked to steal the white man?s mule to kill and eat. This was a real threat, as the Apache Indians liked mule meat as much as he hated the white man.

The mules were an asset to the U.S. Army Calvary Units. Mules were used during the Civil War to transport the cannons and other artillery. They were valued because of their superior strength and stamina. They are able to withstand harsh environmental conditions and terrain. They will not spook and run away as horses will. This was extremely important while in cr itical times of battle.

My grandfather rode in the last U.S. Calvary and was assigned a mule. He photographed U.S. Army mules and later became an artist. I only wish he would have lived long enough to see what I have been able to do with my mules.

Mules were used for packing missiles into the mountains of Afghanistan from 1979-1989 during the war against the Russians. At that time, the United States was giving aid to Afghanistan and shipped mules from Dallas, Texas to the Pakistan border. Hub Reese of Galatin, Tennessee was the main supplier for shipping pack mules o Afghanistan. Many mules were killed in the mountains as a result, but they were helping Afghanistan during their time of need. Mules possess a keen sense of awareness to them. They are able to scent water for more than a mile away. They can detect danger from enemy attack simply because they can feel vibrations from the ground through their feet. They have superior hearing. This is why they are beneficial to third world nations.

Mules require less feed as compared to a horse of the same size. Generally, a mule will eat as much as 30% less, so it is economical to keep a mule. They will not overeat and founder as horses will. To ?founder? is a critical health condition as a result from overeating fresh, lush pasture or feed. Usually a horse is useless after foundering themselves.

Mules are sure footed and are able to travel through rocky and intense terrain where a horse is unable to go. I like to think of it as having four wheel drive. Many truck owners would rather have four wheel drive as an option, but some people are cheap and won't pay for it. They will make do with their two wheel drive trucks and hope for the best. With a mule, it is the same logic. You get what you pay for. A good mule is going to cost you, but they never lose their value and you cannot always replace a good mule. It takes time. When purchasing an equine for trail riding and you are thinking of that four wheel drive
option, you better go for it, reach deep into your wallet and buy a decent mule. If you buy from a reputable dealer, you should be able to get one that comes with a warranty too.

I have ridden through dangerous rocky hillsides many times with my mule ?Rawhide? and have never gotten into trouble with her. We have ridden through bear and cougar habitat. I have ridden her through heavy traffic (at fairs and events in the city) and through crowds at concert events and she has always been calm. She will not spook at gunfire or fireworks. She too will let you know if she likes what she is doing...or NOT. Rawhide has been exposed to many things and that is what makes her an excellent mule.

I receive compliments from people about how well trained my mule is. I have trained her and many other mules and that is a great feeling to get a compliment about your mule....especially if it is coming from a horse person.

Mules are calculating creatures. They are extremely smart. They see the world in black and white. You have to be direct with the mule, as you don't want to bore him. If a mule refuses to do a task, it is for a good reason. A mule cannot be worked to death like a horse can. So the term ?stubborn as a mule? is not really a true statement. Mules that have been trained properly will respond favorably and do the requested task. However, many people, especially horse people, do not know how to train a mule. That is why there are mules that have ?quirks?....because a mule never forgets his experiences. A smart mule trainer knows this. That is why it is important to teach things to your hybrid properly. If you are unable to do this, then you are better off sending your mule to a professional mule trainer and pay the price.

Mules are judgmental animals. They will not tolerate ill treatment. Badly treated mules usually end up at the sale barn, because they have a bad attitude. Mules are not forgiving like horses are. Many ignorant people have been killed by ?outlaw? mules. You see, owning a mule is comparable to being married. You would rather have a good marriage and enjoy your time spent together. The same concept holds true for your mule. Mules know if you like them or not. You have to develop a friendship and bond with your mule first before you are able to work together. And if you do not allow this to grow into a true friendship then you and your mule can get into some nasty disagreements, which can easily lead to you divorcing your mule. And I have seen some really ugly mule divorces over the years.

Rawhide and I have been together for more than 20 years. It is common for mules to stay in the same family for many years. I met a mule that was forty one and never was sold. He remained with his original family and the great grandchildren were now riding him. A decent mule makes a wonderful baby-sitter for young children.

Mules cannot be forced into doing things they do not favor. That's a trait in the mule that most people fail to honor. Mules have to like what they are doing, or they simply will not do it. Quite simply, it has to be their idea. Otherwise, they will continually ?scheme? and act up to avoid doing something they don't like. Inefficient trainers that attempt to use force on these animals, soon develop dangerous habits and that is how you create an outlaw mule.

To appreciate the mule's mind and athletic ability, take time out to learn about his parents, and you will find that you still don't know all there is to know about the mule. My friend recently confessed that she did not become a better parent until she bought her first mule. She said she learned everything about her kids by getting to know her mule. Pretty clever.

I choose to understand the mule and his point of view...I respect his independence. I believe they are complex creatures that are often times misunderstood. Hopefully, from here on out, you will remember...to look into their heart and then proceed to move forward with this thought. Mules are individuals. It is vital to understand their distinctive personalities. Designing an effective and humane training program for your mule will help you to develop a partner for life.
 

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