MuleyCrazy

zekers

zekers

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I'm not meaning to offend Ryan Hatch or anyone associated with MC magazine, I hear they are great people, but I wish they would require official score sheets with the pictures. I just bought the Jan/Feb issue because a friends bucks were in it.(I've seen his score sheets).I'm not the best scorer but I can get pretty close. There is way to much pencil whippin in it. It's a shame to see great bucks, bucks anyone would be proud of, given a score of outlandish proportions. I think people get too caught up in having to have a buck score 200 so they can be in the IN crowd. I get excited reading people's stories about their bucks, whatever the score. When I read MC I immediately think WHAT? and start wondering how short G2's and average fronts with average mass score 200. It takes away from a good magazine with a topic that we all love MULE DEER! Sorry, but just had to vent.
 
I think a lot of people agree with your views, and it isn't restricted to just Muley Crazy. I think most of the magazines have people that submit animals with scores that bear no resemblance to the pictures shown. In a recent issue of Eastmans there were some pronghorns shown with scores above the all-time B&C minimum, but at least one looked to be about 13" or so with very average mass. We see it with elk in Trophy Hunter, as well as other magazines and species.

I guess these magazines all take the information provided, and report it as given. I wish they'd look at the photos and just not publish the ones that are obviously a big stretch.

They'd all have way more credibility if they'd publish stuff that makes sense, and not publish photos of guys who can't read a measuring tape.
 
I had the same feeling for quite some time. I think the mentality of "the score" means everything is the root evil. Pictures can be deceiving but it seems to me that 10 to 20 inches is added to almost every buck. I'm not painting everyone with the same brush as some are very accurate with their scoring, however I often compare bucks in the same magazine and they both say they are 180 bucks and one is the father to the other. I think the magazine industry has become quite competitive in the last few years. You often see the same stories and pictures in each of the magazines. But in Muleycrazy's defense, they come up with the monsters each and every publication.

Rich
 
One thing I have to agree with you about,LIO, is that Muley Crazy does have a bunch of very quality bucks in each issue. I have no complaint with them, I think they do a great job and produce a quality magazine I'm glad to purchase. My beef is with the losers who have to inflate the scores of the animals they submit for their own ego.
 
Good post
I totally agree that most magazines and most outfitters for that matter exagerate scores and will typically add an extra 10 inches for muleys and maybe 10-20 for elk.
 
The Muleycrazy crew doesn't need to exaggerate scores. They have so many monster bucks in every issue, I can't see why they would feel it would be necessary. Also, they've seen/scored enough Bucks in their days to be pretty darn accurate. I'm sure most of the scores they print are given to them by the person submitting the pics, or they are estimating from the photos.

Q - What would you do if you were an editor for a Magazine and someone send in pics of their trophy buck and told you it scored 190". Even though you think it's more like a 180" buck, do you print your lower score or do you print what the person told you ?

Later,
 
You have it officially scored (B/C), have the author send in the sheet, with the article, and say no sheet, NO-PRINT. . . You cant tell me that guys that WANT those storys printed dont also have them officially scored, or, in the very least would not do it if it were required for publication. . . Just because it's been officially scored does not mean it has to go in the "book."
 
I think Tfinalshot is right on. It's free to have your buck scored, you don't have to wait the 60 days if you aren't going to enter it, and it would add so much credibility to the mags. It should be just one of the steps to get your story published. Now this IN NO WAY should take away from people's animals and the thrilling hunt they were on. I believe the trophy mentality we are all getting is only going to get worse, and magazines still have to sell stories.
 
zekers,

That is a good idea in a perfect world but remember that B&C OM's volunteer their time and don't need or want to waste there time on under 60 day animals and scoring an animal just so it can go in a magazine with no intentions of being entered. B&C OM's measure animals for B&C entry. Most of those "200inch" bucks wouldn't make the minimum anyway.

JB
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-07 AT 06:40PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-07 AT 06:39 PM (MST)

I have seen many deer in that mag touted as 190 inch that were maybe 160 . The mag simply should not publish a number in such obvious cases. There credibilty goes right out the window. Nice magazine though I do enjoy it.
 
Its in every magazine and very much so on here. You just make a fool of yourself when you exaggerate. Just like those 400-600 pound black bears. Most are under 200. I do wish people would be more honest because when you come across an honest person anouncing his 160 inch buck, he/she probably feels it isn't "worth" it. I would suggest only putting a score on it if it was official. The rest is just garbage anyway. Spreads fall into this category too.
 
As far as Boone and Crockett scores are concerned, I think it would strengthen the integrity of outdoor magazines to require a copy of the original, signed B & C score sheet before publishing the score. Speculation, wishful thinking and a fisherman's measuring tape are used by some of these fellows!

TM
 
How about not even publishing the score and just say "great buck"?
Who cares what the score is? Can't you just look at a critter and say, "NICE" without getting out the tape measure?
 
This is funny, I actually had the opposite happen to me with Muley Crazy. I wasnt to overly worried about the score so I just went off the green score my taxidermist told me which was 191. When the story was published the gross score was only listed as 181. Shortly there after I had him officialy scored at 194 5/8 gross. The pictures of the buck dont do it justice, im not small and I wasnt holding him as far as possible from me to give the proper illusion. Just another point of view.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-07 AT 06:45AM (MST)[p]Simple, MC should not publish scores unless they can confirm by an official score sheet . . . scoring is about antlers and if someone wants to use the BC system as a way to describe their trophy in a public forum, they should insure due respect to the system.

I don't see or read MC but it sounds like an editorial issue to me. I thought that it was the editors job to decide what gets published and what does not. If so, the editor is allowing to be published, information that may or may not be disgracing Boone and Crockett. I'm not saying they are, I dont read the rag, but they are, it's the editors call . . .
 
Tfinal,
If you haven't seen the mag, then why comment???? Sorry dude but you're on glue if you think these mags should demand B&C official scoresheets. All the stories are sent into them by hunters like us. If they started rejecting stories based on 'No ScoreSheet provided' they then would have no stories plain and simple. Why would anyone seek out an official scorer on a deer that they know will not net anywhere near All-time??? Just so they can keep a bunch of photo-scorer pros on MM happy??? We've seen it on this site again and again, sometimes photos don't do justice to the animal. I still recall that Sask buck from a few years back that was posted up that was a 270+ buck. Even the pros on this site said there was no way that buck would go much over 230. Yet, that buck took top honours during the B&C awards period several months later and it was indeed 270+ net (the exact score escapes me at the moment).
Sure there are some scores that look out of whack. Could be that there are some people out there that really don't understand how to score correctly? It may not be their ego at all, it could be something as simple as that is what the taxi told them it'll score and they believe it. For the expert scorers on this site, you probably can tell the number is out of whack, so you ain't being duped are ya? Read the story, enjoy it and move on to the next 200 incher on the next page. ;)
 
It's always fun to read the "disclaimer" ....

"I'm not an official scorer BUT....."

the "BUT" on most occasions should be followed with....

"I wanted my buck to gross over 200" so I shut myself in a room, measured him with a rubber tape and no way am I gonna let an OFFICIAL B&C scorer put a real tape on it"

Ah, yes, those of you that have done that know what I mean. My OPINION, (yes I did say OPINION) or maybe, I should say "SUSPICION" is that many animals pictured in money greedy magazines, (and unfortunately, many times the "shooter" is greedy for fame)are NOT OFFICIALLY SCORED for no other reason than the "unofficial score" looks much better (many times making that 188" or 192" buck gross that magic 200"+)
Call me what you wish, but you can prove me wrong no easier than you can prove yourself right.

bittersweetmuleymeat

Like Grampa always said... "When you start saying you're the man, you're not the man anymore.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-07 AT 01:31PM (MST)[p]bittersweet,
Fully expected you were going to post behind me. You obviously are one of those master photo scorers ain't ya? You asked me MnT's score awhile back and then disagreed with me as you think it should score less. I in no way was looking for the 'greed of fame' as I said several times I personally didn't care what it scored. The fact I hunted this buck for so long and had the personal history with him is what made him a trophy to me. I only posted up the score because you wanted me too. I recall mentioning that I wasn't a professional scorer. Why did I say that? Well, having put the tape on MnT and dealing with the palmation it is one of those bucks that starting points are uncertain. Heck, I went with a conservative measurement, and yet you still disagreed with me all based on some photos. You have never held the rack in your hand. You have never seen it's mass. If I put the tape where I believe I can, I get a 10 1/2 inch H measurement, but I instead play it safe and take a lesser measurement at 6 1/2. Are you a B&C official scorer or do you just think you are good at the ol' photoguess? How far out were you on the latest 'guess the score' that Founder posted up? I was only 3 1/2 inches off. I suppose you were a mere 1/8 of an inch eh? Can't remember if it was you or someone else that kept on posting up on that thread I posted about a potential BC provincial record, but the guy was so anal on his photoscoring that he again and again kept posting, disagreeing with the offical greenscore. Yup, it doesn't matter if the buck has an offical measurer tape it, still gonna be a bunch on MM that know better eh?
 
BC,
Why are you so defensive about this post? Funny YOU should bring your buck in to this discussion. I guess, if you think it's relevant, to a certain extent, so there shouldnt be any reason not to bring it up. Here is the text of our discussion you are refering to...

MY POST....Just curious, (for reference purposes) Thats a very intruiging set of antlers. Curious to see what they do on paper. bittersweetmuleymeat

YOUR REPLY...While I ain't no official scorer, I have learned from a few. I've got MnT grossing 202 inches as a 9x7.

MY REPLY TO YOUR REPLY...WOW, guess I was wrong, I couldnt get him to paper out that much. Congrats, thats a hard one to top. ?bittersweetmuleymeat

What part of "I was wrong" didnt you comprehend? Do you use a different term up there for the word WRONG? "I" coulnt get him to paper out that much, did I say HE DIDNT gross over 200"? Let me say, I would have shot your buck without thinking twice, and I tend to be pretty picky, to say the least. I would have shot him had I never seen or known of him before that day. The story involved is iceing on the cake for you, no doubt about it. You deserved that buck. We arent always "rewarded" for hard work and perseverance, in this case you were.

I didnt "guess" the score of the "guess the score" buck. Good thing, as you have pointed out what a terrible "scorer" I can be. Good job for being so close, (and pointing that out to me) Guess "you're the man"

Also, I dont recall that I was the one dissagreeing with the "potential BC record" although I may be mistaken. It dosent ring a bell, but hey, Ive been WRONG (not correct) before.
The original topic of this post (in general) was how the written/stated scores of bucks (at least SEEM to be) higher than the buck appears in the photos from article/post/video. I really dont think thats an unrealistic observation or "suspicion" if you care to call it that. Lets be reasonable about it, not deffensive.
YOU are the one who brought your buck into the discussion. Maybe YOU WERE RIGHT, Maybe it is relevant to a certain extent.
As a side note, I prefer to shoot fork horns myself. They are easy for me to field judge. Again, congratulations from one dedicated hunter to another.

bittersweetmuleymeat


Like Grampa always said... "When you start saying you're the man, you're not the man anymore.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-07 AT 05:05PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-07 AT 04:53?PM (MST)

Bitter,
You are forgetting to add to the discussion how you called me out when I said deer up here in the Great White North can have big noggins. I believe I said the words '27 inch ears' and you kept on posting and posting on and on how that ain't possible and how I needed to prove it with pics. I believe this was around the same time (within days) of you asking about the score on MnT. Then the fact you post on this thread right after me and use almost the exact term that I had used in the MnT thread, "Well I ain't an offical measurer," and you can see where I might think that you think of yourself as a high and mighty armchair photo scorer. I really could give a rats a$$ what you think any buck scores, including mine, but baiting you into a this thread is a hell of a lot more exciting that reading the 200 threads ongoing about Jim Zumbo. :) :) The point to bringing my buck into the discussion is that from pics you thought it scored different. Now you can throw out words like rubber tapes and such and make yourself sound like you are the Shizit when it comes to scoring, but in reality, using a rubber tape would be giving you a smaller score rather than a bigger score would it not? ;)
I believe we definately need a new rule here on MM and we need to petition all the Horn Porn mags, including Muley Crazy, Trophy Hunter, Eastmans, and Big Buck that it is unacceptable to post or print a story about any buck if the pros on MM disagree with the score. All bucks need to be panel scored because the MM pro photo scorers don't trust the scores if only one offical measurer scored the animal. :)
 
BC,

This is us snickering to ourselves.... Tee, hee, hee...Gotcha again! Like on all the other sights when you back yourself in to a corner and then so predictably sound of your famous rebuttal. (You know the one, go ahead, thats right, clear your throat, the one about you "messing with our heads, molding us like clay, latida....") I won the bet this afternoon on how long it would take you to reply, and what the context of your "statement" would be)
You ARE a smarty pants for sure (But an extremely predictable one might I add)
I still have a few years of (Phsychiatric)schooling to complete before I can play chess with you. (Or is it the other way around?)
Go ahead, say something else funny and predictable, make us laugh some more. Time is all we have down here down South. Lets chat a little bit more on the 27" ears the BC bucks sport. please BC, please... tell us a story!

bittersweetmuleymeat

Like Grampa always said..."When you start saying you're the man, you're not the man anymore"
 
Hey, I just read my own post. Sometimes I amuse myself, and other times, others amuse me.
 
bitter,
You know how I get when I'm backed in a corner. I start crying and I call my mommy. No doubt you've won this time. I'm just the foolish ol' man from the Land of Ice and Snow. I made a mistake. 27 inch ears are only on the caribou that roam outside my igloo. When I make it down south, I'll have to try hunting mule deer. Does it taste anything like seal?
 
canook!
buck1.gif


Later, Brandon
 
Hey Browtine,
You been finding any tine yet??? or are you stuck in that shed season area??? I've been finding a few here and there. I think I'm up to 16 thus far for the year. I found an ancient one today with mass from hell. Sure wish I had of found it 15 years ago. I had to dig it out of the frozen soil. Only have found one big brown thus far, 81 6/8 inch 4 point. 21 inches of mass. I'd post up a pic but I wouldn't want Bitter to play his mind game with me and prove it only scores 40 inches. ;)
 
Hey BC, leave out the score, case closed. I said I dont READ it, I do look at, but just the photos, i never read the storys.

My qustions is this, why even post the score, why not just the picture and the article, and forget score?
 
I think the reason these folks post a score is for advertising. They are in the business of producing big critters. Their livelyhoods depend on being the best. From my point of view, the score doesn't really matter. If these guys can produce big critters or photos of big critters they deserve our business. If you don't like the magazine or the results, don't hire the guide or buy the magazine. Numbers really don't mean much do they?

RUS
 
>Hey BC, leave out the score,
>case closed. I said
>I dont READ it, I
>do look at, but just
>the photos, i never read
>the storys.
>
>My qustions is this, why even
>post the score, why not
>just the picture and the
>article, and forget score?


Exactly! When you pervs look at the centerfold in Playboy (or Playgirl, for those of you on the other side of the fence!), do you have to see the measurements to know that the model is a keeper? No, you can tells by lookin that she is a trophy 2 point.
 
Muley Crazy is the best mag out there. I bet you $$$ if you get right down to it the scores on the bucks are closer than you think. Get over it just cause it's not your magazine.
 
Money, you can't be agreeing with me again -- can you?

I like your example. If ther're nice, they are nice, who cares of they are a 36 or a 34, i never kicked one out of bed for eating crackers!
 
Did somone say Jamie Presly? Heck, I wouldnt kick her out of bed for eating Anchovies and Wasabi!!
Don't print the score? Makes sense in a way, but in all reality, most of us would like to know.
Then again, if our choices are an exaggerated score or no score given. I would prefer "no score given"

bittersweetmuleymeat

My Grampa always said, "When you start saying you're the man, you're not the man anymore"
 
I, like most readers and contributors to the best Mule Deer Mag out there enjoy seeing the scores. If you have ever tried to have a deer officially scored you may have had a hard time getting it done. Depending on where you live it can be difficult. I for one do not want to miss out on an article and pictures so the score can be official. It is impracticle and would cut the Mag at least in half to have a requirement for the official score. I say just look at the pics, enjoy and take the score for what it's worth or what you think its worth. Just my 2 cents.
 
i haven't read all these replys but for those of you who DO read Muley Crazy, they just wrote an article on this SAME issue a little while back. about how it pisses them off when people lie about their bucks' scores. so to say that they just publish whatever people say, is B.S.
 
BCBOY, I havent found crap :( To much snow and its snowing right now!
Pics man, PICS

I cant belive im saying this, But I like moneymans suggestion!
buck1.gif


Later, Brandon
 

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