Muzzleloader distance

[John_The_Bastard]

How about some thoughts and comments on effective distances to shoot deer and elk with muzzleloaders. Especially with open sights.Here in Illinois we use scopes but can't in many states.Open sights are a challenge for us senior hunters. I am talking both primitive and modern using black powder or black powder substitutes.

 

[Founder]

I shoot an open sight muzzleloader and I consider a good shot as 150 yards or less, but would stretch to 180 with ideal setup. What I've found is that when hunting thicker cover, 100 yards is a long shot because of low light and distinguishing the animal.

I hunted a buck a few years ago in Colorado for 9 days. I saw him 4 times, each time within shooting range, but never did get a shot. I could see him in the pines or aspens with binoculars, but with my naked eye and open sights, just couldn't pick him out well enough. It was frustrating!!!

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
Will you LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook! I need a friend....

 

[txhunter58]

150 for me as well. WHEN I get picked to hunt Utah, I will probably put on a 1x scope and try to extend that to 200, but my eyes are the limiting factor on open sights as well

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

 

[heartshot]

My goal is under 100 and I stop at 150.

 

[elkassassin]

If You Ain't Shootin 350-400 Yards you're not Shootin an Ultimate SmokePole!

If you're gonna Fling Arrows 125 Yards....................

If you're gonna Sling Lead 1000+ Yards out of Rifles........

You best Update your Old Hawken as well!







[font color="redhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMsueOnu0kY

 

[John_The_Bastard]

Hey Man,
I am a simple old man, I attempt to be ethical according to where I stand in my own boots, I do not want to shoot something outside my gmu for my tag or even worse kill something in another state. My poaching days are over. I will do my best to stay within my own limited abilities. I totally understand that you are trying your best to somehow measure up to the hunting giants who stretch limitations let alone the truth.
I remain J_T_B

 

[Idahoron]

My traditional rifles would be accurate enough to shoot deer and elk out to 250 yards. My load would have plenty of energy to pull it off. I don't like to shoot past 150 on the first shot. After that first shot my guns are capable to keep pounding them as long as they are on their feet. So far with my paper patched 500 S&W bullets they don't stand much longer after they are hit.

 

[2lumpy]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-05-15 AT 05:53PM (MST)[p]In my experience, an open sight, blade or bead, at 150 yards, will nearly cover half a deer. In Utah we're limited to a one power scope, which actually reduces the size of image and a deer through a 1x scope is very, very small, so even with a cross hair, it's a pretty tricky shoot to put one right in the lung/heart every time. From my personal experience, at least in Utah, I'm toast past 150 yards. Mind you, most of my muzzleloader hunting has been done with the old slow twist barreled rifles and I missed a lot of deer between 100 and 150 yards, some of those shots were from a dead rest, dead calm, laying on the ground, with all the time in the world. I clearly remember missing 3 shots at 147 yards, at a standing buck, over a period of 30 minutes, off a dead cedar tree. I thought, how can I miss a target the size of a half sheet of plywood, but I did!

The fast twist barrels help, no doubt, but you still have the front sight bead to body size issue and the 1x scope issue in Utah.

Have fun John, hunting with a muzzleloader is a great way to hunt.

DC

 

[cabinfever]

Killed a buck at 225 yards with open sights and felt comfortable taking the shot, as I had practiced at that distance. 250 yds for me is my top end.

 

[nfh]

My muzzleloader pistol max range is 25yards. I only hunt whitetail does with it. My accuracy past 25 yards gets bad when you dont have a rest

 

[hank4elk]

Here in NM inlines,sabots & scopes are legal.
I shoot a TC Omega w/Nikon and can get 3" groups @ 200. Hear of folks w/similar set-up shooting way further.
Me, I hunt ACAP...as close as possible,inside 200.Usually way closer.
The scope really helps with the light and the fact that my eyes are 60.....

 

[Cow Tag]

John, Last September, I had a cow elk black powder permit in Colorado. One evening, I watched a big ole bronze cow ease into the oak brush. The sun was reflecting off of her hide so much that it made me squint. The Bushnell rangefinder reported 174 yards. I had an aspen tree for a solid support. She was broadside eating acorns....open sights on a Remington 700 muzzle loader. I would aim and look up and aim and look up---------------finally, I put the rifle against the aspen and watched her eat till it was dark. I could not get up the nerve to shoot at a cow elk at that distance. Looks like the good ole 150 yard mark is my maximum range. I believe that I made the correct decision. Cow Tag

 

[elkassassin]

Hey John!

Check your PM!

>Hey Man,
> I
>am a simple old man,
>I attempt to be ethical
>according to where I stand
>in my own boots, I
>do not want to shoot
>something outside my gmu for
>my tag or even worse
>kill something in another state.
>My poaching days are over.
>I will do my best
>to stay within my own
>limited abilities. I totally understand
>that you are trying your
>best to somehow measure up
>to the hunting giants who
>stretch limitations let alone the
>truth.
> I
>remain J_T_B










[font color="redhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMsueOnu0kY

 

[John_The_Bastard]

Elk assassin.....I returned your p.m. please read my reply.......I am much in agreement with Founders thinking on the distances that I am capable of. On elk I am barely comfortable at 150 yards if the elk is in the open however cover makes a good sight picture go away. An elk standing in aspens at 100 yards seems to get foggy when I try to align the sights. Deer even more so. I believe that a younger hunter with 20-20 vision and practice could extend the range out more.

 

[John_The_Bastard]

Hank,
Here in Illinois we can use sabots and scopes. I have an A@H that happens to shoot great. I bought it from their custom shop when the company was in its infancy. I have practiced with it and my furthest kill was a whitetail at 234 yards. We have late doe season here in another week and I will carry that gun.
J_T_B

 

[cannonball]

That is certainly a wide open question with a lot of variances, but with the criteria you stated, opt with the shorter distances. Let me tell you this story that happened before the "modern guns showed on the scene: We were having a black powder rendezvous one year and I had heard from some of these old buckskinners how far they had shot deer - 200 yards, 300 yards, etc. What a bunch of BS'ers. I asked if I could be in charge of one of the shoots and the group agreed. I kept quiet what I was doing. When that day arrived I set a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood with a target on it at 300 yards. Would not tell anyone what the yardage was. Called it the "de-liar" shoot. I watched some of those buckskinners who claimed to have made these great shots at deer, roll the bullets to the base of the target. The one that came the closest to the bullseye bounced it on the ground to the target and it didn't even make a hole in the plywood. I thought I would split a gut watch so many of the big talkers, fail. With the modern guns that shoot further. Just remember there is a difference between target shooting and hunting. We're all different, so save the animals rather than wound them and know your ability.

 

[Cow Tag]

The Cannon speaks with authority.

 

[Muley_73]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-15 AT 02:04PM (MST)[p]Cannonball,
I was young but I remember that shoot! You forgot to mention that you also set the other rules of the shoot! Like no more than 25 grains of Triple F! I know for a fact those pretty guns Lumpy shot were good out to 200 before this long range hate started to boil up!

 

[projp]

Your original question involved open sights and old people, which I have some experience with. If I have to use open sights, a receiver,(peep), works best. You only have to focus on the deer and the front sight instead of the added problem of the rear sight.

 

[John_The_Bastard]

I used to think like you. I even purchased an adjustable peep. You could increase the size of the aperture. I began having trouble in situations where light was limited. Late...early... or in timber such as aspen groves. I went to sights with bright dots such as those made by tru-glow. This past summer the dots on my encore had dulled so I purchased a new set from truglow. They arrived and I was disturbed as the rear sight dots seemed to me to be too far apart. there was more space between the center dots and the outside dots than the width of the center dot, I feared not aligning them perfectly. I went to the range and got a great surprise. I was able to see the entire target better and as I shot it I realized that I could align it well and shot quite well. When looking at a deer or elk I can see the animal well. The sight does not block much of the animal.
Some shooters are naturally good shots and most of us have to concentrate and go thru a ritual to shoot well. Even good shots occasionally learn something that can help them.
I killed a nice cow elk in late September with this sight. 100 yard shot....I remember double checking my sight alignment before squeezing the trigger.
Your eyes might be different from mine. I wear eyeglasses and have since I was in 5th grade.

 

[projp]

I am glad that you found what works for you. I originally used a very small aperture thinking that it would leave less room for error, but when it got dusk I couldn't see very good. I bought one with a larger hole and this helped, but eventually switching between the two I ended up one day leaving them both back at camp and had to hunt with NO aperture, just the hole in the receiver post that was big enough to drive a truck through. It is seems crazy but I seem to shoot just as good, (or bad), this way as I ever did. I haven't use the screw in part for 20 years. It is amazing how your eye will naturally center things up.

 

[cannonball]

Muley 73 "Cannonball,
I was young but I remember that shoot! You forgot to mention that you also set the other rules of the shoot! Like no more than 25 grains of Triple F! I know for a fact those pretty guns Lumpy shot were good out to 200 before this long range hate started to boil up!"

Muley, You were still in diapers and as I remember your Daddy wasn't even there. I will tell you this though, if he can't shoot a deer where elevation and windage isn't needed, it isn't worth shooting. Even his guns wouldn't shoot 300 yards without an four to eight foot drop. By this time, however, I'm sure he's shooting modern.

 

[John_The_Bastard]

My first peep was one made exactly like you describes. I had the same thing happen to me. I actually drilled out the largest one and once left both screw in apertures in my cleaning kit. I do realize that shooting can be a brain game.....we use what we have confidence in.
J_T_B

 

[txhunter58]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-15 AT 11:38AM (MST)[p]I use a fiberoptic front site and a Williams Rear peep. I purchased an aftermarket "Twilight peep" with a big appeture from Williams and this works in most situation. As stated above, in really low light, I just remove the peep totally and use the "ghost ring" circle that is left. I too do well even with this big of a hole.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

 

[COLOelkman]

You might want to check out some posts by Marley as he's shot longer distances out to 400 yds with open sights and took an elk at nearly 300. I'm itching to shoot my White muzzy's and see how my eyes and sights will do as previously my limit was maybe 150ish. I'd like to get out to maybe 250 but I'm sure that will take lots of practice.

 

[Cahunter805]

250 is my limit with open sights. I sight in 3" high at 100 and test out to 250.
I tend to setup so the top edge of my front bead is right below where I want to hit. Let's me see more of the target at longer distances.

 

[Deerlove]

Took a buck this year at just over 200 yards down hill, that is my max dist.

 

[Z]

Good day...200

Less than ideal conditions, 100-150 all day long.

Scoped, 300 on whitetail and smaller.

 

[John_The_Bastard]

Gentlemen,
Please reference what bullet you are using. I can shoot a long way farther here in Illinois for 2 reasona. One is the legal projectile and the other is the scope.In Colorado I can make a 150 yard kill but am less than comfortable at that distance.
Thanks J_T_B

 

[COLOelkman]

I think the bullet is highly dependant on the gun. In my White's I shoot a Bullshop 460 gr. lead conical, however when I shot my Knight, I shot a TC 375 gr. lead conical. There are several other bullets that perform well relative to lethal performance such as Hornady FPB, Thor's, ???? probably others as well. Very much a trial and error thing. I've usually read a lot about what others shoot in guns the same as mine to try to narrow down the choices as you can sure spend a lot of time and $ with the options available. Not to mention the various powders as well!

 

[hank4elk]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-20-15 AT 06:34PM (MST)[p]250 Barnes TEZ sabot,Nikon BDC scope. 100grns BH 209.TC Omega Z5. On StnyPt sandbags @ range. Consistant 3-4" groups = hunt within 200 ,well with in.
Blew a big hole thru a cow @ 150 yrds.One of the few elk that ever just dropped for me.
I swear I can see the bullet heading to target they are so slow. Bloop!
IMHO, for me, too slow to shoot farther without outside interference....wind,temp.,if I fart, etc...
Still it is nice to know I could. And have track record.
Now I just have to have the bull walk into the open...been saying that for yrs. Hah!!