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idelkslayer

Active Member
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Hello all,

I am new to the forum, just found it yesterday.
Anyways, just to introduce myself. I am a lifelong and devoted idaho resident. I have lived in almost every region of the state at one time or another and just recently moved to southeast idaho. I worked 5 years as a carpenter for framing contractors and general contractors before going to the University of Idaho and I graduated last year.

I have hunted in Units: 1,2,4,7,8,8A,11,66A,76. So if you have any questions about those areas I'll try to help you out.
Every year I hunt deer, elk and black bears.
 
Do you want a bonus point/preference point system?

This answer will determine if you are accepted here. Go

Joking... welcome aboard.
 
Welcome to MM. Look forward to seeing you here on the site. I hunt Idaho every year for black bear in the northern part of the state also. Best of luck on all your hunts this year and welcome aboard!!!
 
I noticed that Bonus point discussions have been frequent and heated on this forum in the past. While I don't want to create an arguement I will take a moment to give my opinion.
To begin I will do as others have done and give my drawing history, in 15 years of hunting Idaho (since age twelve)

I have drawn 4 xtra doe tags(>90% odds and one year I still didn't draw), 1 cow elk tag (2 years I didn't draw).

I have failed to draw the following Bull moose, Bull Elk, Antlered Deer.

I do not support a Bonus Point system.
Now to the mathematics. (actual numbers not pulled from my nether regions)

I have run a simulated calculation of a "theoretical contolled hunt" with 10 tags and 100 applicants. In the best case scenario the people who put in the longest, draw the tags. so after one year 90 original applicants remain. then 80 and so on. In this scenario the last ten(of original 100)require ten years to draw and their odds were raised from 10% to 18% over the course of ten years. (taking ten years to draw is statistically the same as not having bonus pts.)

After the original "ground floor" people are gone (and assuming they dont reapply) a first timer has a 1.8% chance of being drawn; after 5 years 9.5% and 10 years 18%. That is the best case scenario so lets go to the next step.

In this case only five of the original 100 draw each year and 5 others draw from the remaining applicants. It will take 10 years to achieve 10% odds, (which statistically under the current system you would draw by then anyways, I know it doesn't always happen that way) It would take 20 years to achieve 19% odds. so roughly 15 to 20 years to double your odds and still no guarantee that you will draw.

And this still assumes that no more than 100 people apply and no one ever reapplies once they have drawn the tag and that tag numbers never get reduced.

The bottom line is that with a bonus system you are almost guaranteed to not draw a tag for at least 10 years and after that your odds are not much improved from a random system. The bonus point recieved just makes you feel better.

Now if I were a non-resident, I would not put in in Idaho except in high odds units. It is deplorable to require you to buy a license just to put in (it's a blatant money grab). That said if you do apply in Idaho you have the same odds of being drawn as a resident, until the 10% quota is filled.

Idaho's compromise (for residents and non-residents)is that if you don't draw then you can still do general hunts. Other states sacrifice that ability by using points to restrict you to not be able to hunt every year, I prefer to hunt every year.

It is unfortunate to go 10, 15, 20 years without drawing a coveted tag, especially if it is in your home unit. I belive we can increase the odds of drawing in these areas if we increase the wait limit to reapply after you draw. instead of 2 yrs lets make it five in high demand areas. Or limit everyone to applying for only one species per year. (it would suck but I would prefer that over bonus pts)

The most aggravating thing for me when I don't draw is when some one who did draw doesn't buy their tag before the Aug. 1st deadline, these people should be penalized by a double wait time to re-apply. If they can't commit to that hunt then they shouldn't apply. Or how about limiting how many times you can draw in a given area?

The real trouble with starting a bonus system is that once it is in place you can never remove it. In north Idaho we witnessed every year, all the washington and oregon hunters who didn't draw came to Idaho to hunt, and I hear them say they wish it was like this at home. My friends in Southern Idaho say the same things about all the Utah hunters coming north because they didn't draw in Utah.

I dream of mountain goats and bighorn sheep but I know I may never draw the tag in Idaho. But if you look at the odds in bonus systems states then it could take 20 years and roughly $2000.00 to draw a tag. I might as well just save my money for twenty years and go on a hunt in British columbia or alaska. (I know I won't find a sheep hunt for 2000 dollars but over the course of 20 years I can definetly save enough money to pay for a hunt in those places)

Besides the antlerless tags I've drawn, I only hunt general seasons and 90% public land. I see big bulls occasionally but have only managed to kill spikes, I have been able to kill a couple nice bucks and several small ones. I don't feel cheated, I feel like Idaho has the best system, and there are other problems that could be addressed to improve hunting.

If you are a trophy hunter and want a premium tag then apply for bonus points in a state that has them. We need at least one state where bonus points aren't in place, and I'm proud that Idaho is that place.
 
I have long said that if they are going to stay with no point system, they need to increase the waiting period if a tag is drawn. And, there is no reason we can't explicitly say that you have to wait 5 years for unit 45, 54, 40 etc and 3 years for 44, 42, etc and 1 year for early 39 etc. Everybody knows the best hunts with the hardest odds....

Your analysis is spot on with the percentage math, it's just that no system ensures that your odds never increase unless applicants fall, whereas a system you are at least given a better chance to draw each time you fail. These animals that we all covet are owned by you, me, everyone. It's a crime that a public animal in a home unit can literally never be hunted if you don't get lucky, and your odds never increase.

Anyways, I welcome a reasoned opinion...
 
I was all set to welcome you aboard and (living in Poky) ask where you now are......but I went to BSU. They may not allow us to be friends.


Within the shadows, go quietly.
 

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