nonresidents gonna pass on Utah this year?

NVdrhntr

Active Member
Messages
418
So, how many of you non-utahns are going to pass on the Utah draw this year? To be honest, I'm seriously thinking about it.
With the new fee's and regs on having to buy a hunting license first before applying, I'm trying to decide if it's worth it.
I've been applying for me and my kids for years, but that's a chunk of change now.
Before you all say I'm just not a serious hunter, or I don't want to contribute to wildlife, I'll admit up front I think it's too much money. We'll see.
Does anyone know if you have to buy a license if you are only going to apply for a bonus point?
 
I hear ya, I'm in the same boat. 5 non-res deer points.......I already have to buy a license in Nv to apply :) Who knows, me and the old man are still talkin about it.




If huntin is a sport.....Well your lookin at an athlete!
 
You and me too. I've got 5 points as well. I'm not going to buy a license to have the opportunity to go hunt an over-crowded 5 day season! Sorry but way too short of a season for that kind of money.

Steve
 
What happened to "I'd be willing to pay more" or "I'd be happy to only hunt every 3 or 4 years" if the it would help hunting? This is what I've been saying would happen. Now every one down low on the ladder is complaining. Well we're gonna hear a lot more complaining in the future when special interest groups keep pricing and regulating more and more hunters out of the pool so we can "improve hunting", for the wealthy, because they'll be the only one's that will be able to afford to hunt!
Wes
 
I've not read whatever you've said before, and you sound a little pessimistic, but THIS IS HAPPENING!! We need to regulate the number of predators, manage for people and increase opportunity. If we don't, we will be just like Europe, where everyone can hunt...if he's named Baron Von something and has a couple million, plus a castle.
 
With 3 elk points, and no chance of reaching maximum points in my lifetime and a 1 in 1000 chance of drawing for the hunt I want, no, I dont' think I will be applying.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
Can't believe a guy from NV, the absolute most expensive state for nonresidents, would worry about a paltry by comparison $65 license fee!
 
I am in...all part of the game.. will be in southern gen hunt anyways unless I draw an LE BUCK TAG!
RM
 
I am going to have to think about this first. UT does not have that great of animals. There Elk are the best and they give most of those tags to the highest bidder! The LE deer is not as great as some over the counter state tages. It would take me some time to get a elk tag.
 
My wife and I will both apply until we draw since we have quite a few points, $65 plus the $10 application fees are still the best buy in the sport for the quality. Utah at $20 for two species has been too good to be true, I don't blame them for the change at all.
 
I probably can afford those type of fees more then the average guy, but I decided years ago that I would not allow myself to be ripped off by states that will charge you for a hunting license first, and then you have to eat that license because you can not draw a tag for that state.
As for the guys who state, "you are not willing to support the game", most of them are locals and "they" can support the game when they start paying the higher fees and still not draw a tag. I would prefer to pay a higher price for the tag, if I am lucky enought to draw then to allow myself being ripped off by a greedy game dept. who wants me to play their numbers game while they laught on the way to the bank with my money.
This will stop if enought NR hunters stop playing the game and those states have to increase their fees to their residents to make up the difference. The locals would holler enought that they would find a more fair way to sell their game tags. A way that would both be fair to the resident hunter and the non resident. but I really do not see this happening, money is the name of the game and money will win out in the long run.

RELH
 
Well, I have 12 deer points and the only tag I would want for deer is the henry's. But, 12 points doesn't get me in the game
for the bonus point tag. So, that leaves me in with the 600 other apps for the other 1 tag. I would have liked to have the Delores triangle tag but they took that away for the expo.
And, I can tell you after hunting the Pauns this year with friends that there is no way that's a premium tag anymore.
license and tag - 628 dollars.
I don't think so.
I've always been one to say that you have to be in the game "draw" if you want the tag. but, I'm rethinking my position on this one.
I agree with the above post. If they need to raise money,
raise the tag fees only. they will always sell.
It will be interesting to see next years nonresident draw odds and see if the number of applicants went down.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-12-07 AT 09:38PM (MST)[p]I wonder what would happen if all non-residents banned together and didn't put in for Utah Deer or elk. Can you imagine the statement that would make? You know how much money they'd be out? AND it can be done with only one hunting season. The other states that are possibly thinking of doing the same increases will think twice about it for sure. Can we ban together to make a statement? Would it work?

Steve
 
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-12-07
>AT 09:38?PM (MST)

>
>I wonder what would happen if
>all non-residents banned together and
>didn't put in for Utah
>Deer or elk. Can you
>imagine the statement that would
>make? You know how much
>money they'd be out? AND
>it can be done with
>only one hunting season. The
>other states that are possibly
>thinking of doing the same
>increases will think twice about
>it for sure. Can we
>ban together to make a
>statement? Would it work?
>
>Steve


I would but you know there's too many people out there just waiting to take advantage of that situation. If "it" ever did happen it would probably work though.





If huntin is a sport.....Well your lookin at an athlete!
 
You are probably right, but...those that didn't go along with it would only benefit for that one season...and they'd be the reason nothing changes. If they can live with that then so bi it. I could hold out for putting in for a year or two to try to make a difference (not in every state of course!) You'd only have to boycott one state to make it work.

Steve
 
I am dropping out of the UT tag lottery. Too much money for so small of a chance of getting a license. The money would probably be better invested buying lottery tickets so I can win enough money to buy one of the tags they give out to conservation auctions and to the landowners.

At least in WY (while the fees are going up for NR) they will get a tag as a return on their money every couple of years.
 
One item that maybe getting over looked is that you can still hunt Utah if you do not draw the LE tag or the OIL tag.

Your $60-ish hunting license would not go to waste.

You can choose a General Region buck tag-rifle or mzzy or archery is statewide excluding LE units for deer.

You can hunt a spike on most of the LE elk units and get to know the unit very well for the big day the LE tag comes your way. All the General Any Bull and spike units are OTC until sold out....

You could apply in the cow elk draw for fairly cheap and hunt in the unit of your LE bull choice to get to know it better....

It isn't like your screwed out of hunting in Utah if you do not draw your LE or OIL tag.

It is hard NOT to get discouraged, I agree, as I am a non-res in like 2-4 states in any given draw year and it is pricey......

Robb
 
My wife an I are still in. At least for 2008. My son talked like he was not going to put in this year, but he don't have but a couple points.
 
I do think this will effect the odds for the non-residents... bit I dont think it will do much for the residents.
 
I am on the fence on this one with 6 points for deer. I was hoping to draw a bookcliffs tag, but at the rate the point creep is going that could take several more years. I think it takes about 8 points now.

I would rather see higher prices if you draw a tag or a slightly higher entry fee, but I don't want to spend $65 on a license I'm not going to use.

I like the idea of boycotting the state for a year or two, but don't beleive enough people would go along with the idea.

Jody
 
I think it could be a tough pill to swallow, but UT has been way too easy for way too long. $5 on the credit card was way too cheap and easy. I am a resident so it won't affect me much, I will have to buy a license for my wife if I want to keep putting her in, but I don't feel too bad about that.

However, I wish we had just done something like MT or WY where we just charge extra to participate in the Bonus Point program. I don't think it is ethical for a state to sell you a license they know you will not use. I have done this in ID and NV. NV really pissed me off, because after I bought the license I decided I ought to go over and at least hunt chukar one. When I started planning I found out that, to add insult to injury, I also had to buy an upland game stamp.

I think charging for points is more straigtforward than charging for a license you won't use, but I guess the matching federal funds for every license sold are too much for lots of states to pass up. WY seems desperate for NR money, so I imagine they will catch on to this soon too. Get ready folks, it is only going to get worse.

Dax
 
its only 65 bucks for the license, most other states are still more money. i think that appl fee goes up to 10 bucks also, but all in all i rather pay that then front a couple thousand even if i do get it back.. points alone in WY for deer elk and antelope ONLY are more than what you would spend in UT this year... if i didnt drop out of wyoming with their increases the past few years, im staying in with UT. still cheaper than most all other western states, i think most will stay in my opinion.

travis
 
I only have 5 deer points as a nonresident and I am staying in. I think Utah is testing the market with the $65 license to see how it affects their pocket book. If few people drop out ths year, you can expect the license fee to creep up every year thereafter. While I agree $5 was way too cheap, I hate to see such a drastic change. With that said, I might actually draw a tag in my lifetime now that it is too expensive for people to put their nonhunting family members into the draw.
 
$65, are you kidding me. It's the lowest non-res license anywhere.

Arizona charges NRs $150 to put in for the draw.

Idaho charges NRs $141 to put in.

Nevada NRs $142 to put in.

Colorado is now making people buy a hunting license to apply.

And you guys are complaining about a mesely $65.
 
All non-res are out for me this year, but that has more to do with two kids in college than $65.

Even so, it's a tuff choice. I'm not convinced we're always going to have hunting privileges. If ten years from now we're not allowed to hunt anywhere, would you look back on this moment and wish you'd spent the $65 for the chance at one more hunting opportunity?
 
Where do ya'll hunt? We're all non residents in 49 states and if you hunt anywhere you gotta pay something. $65.00 is pretty cheap for the chance to do what we love in the fall. Ski lift tickets are about that. You can spend that gambling in 1/2 an hour. That will buy you 4 gallons of diesel! If you want to hunt in Utah then pay the money. If not, then stay home and hunt around the house. I put in where i can and skip about 47 other states every year.
 
If you Non-Res want to stay home then fine by me. If $65 is making you cry then try putting in NV, AZ, ID and being out $437.75 and no opportunity on Draw units. What you can hunt AZ Archery Deer? Whoopee that will never happen, Idaho gives opportunity to hunt bear, deer, and elk on an OTC tag so that isn't to bad of a deal, but as we all know they don't even give you a flipping point for the 141.50. And then you have to make the trip over there and buy a license for 200-400 just to make the license you bought good. I agree with you on Nevada that maybe upland game to make license good but then they want Stamp Fees. It's a joke, that you Non-Res of Utah complain. We would love to have you out but stay home fine by me.
 
I agree that it is getting more expensive it seems almost every year to apply for non resident tags. Wyoming first instituted a very high PP fee and then raised the prices 2 years later on the tags.

Utah is now making people buy a license and then pay more for points but Utah is still one of the best bargins out there for points even though it will take forever to get anywhere with them.

Colorado charges $25 per aniaml for points if you did not buy a hunting,fishing or tag the year prior.

Oregon,Nevada, California, Idaho, arizona and I think a couple other make you buy a license before you can get points and then there is a fee for that too.

Yep it is getting pricy but I guess it is the game I will play for now.


THE LORD IS MY ROCK
NRA LIFE MEMBER
HUNTING PASS IT ON
 
I feel for the non-residents of Utah. I do not think instituting these non-refundable tag fees is the way to go. I realize it is largely a response to the federal distribution of P/R dollars based on license sales. There are ways to fix that mess, however.
This license fee for non-residents is a direct result of SFW. I don't mean that as a compliment. At least you know there was one resident sticking up for you non-residents! Not that I could be heardd over the clamor of folks thinking they were about to get some easy, "free" money.
Bill
 
I haven't looked at the regs yet this year. Plan to put in over Christmas weekend. $65 is not extreme, compared to other states. I'm in, even though I only have 4 points for deer and moose. I've been thinking about the SE general muzzleloader for next year anyway. Been a while since I hunted muleys.
 
GET USED TO IT ..MONEY IS LIKE BLOOD IN THE SEA WHERE THEIR SHARKS..May increase offen until it catches up with Nevada. its only beer money anyway............soon it will be for all big game each like Wyoming. Whatever it takes...I WILL ALWAYS BUY INTO IT!
RM
 
You know,
You're right. 65 dollars is chump change.
I just realized something about myself. I just don't want to go to Utah and hunt mediocre.
I'll stay home and hunt quality.
 
>can you buy a bonus point
>without buying the license?

No, you have to pay the application fee: $10 and buy a license: $65 for a total of $75 just to apply for a bonus point.

As far as being chump change, I just cant see spending that kind of money for a less than 1 in 1000 chance of drawing the only tag I want. If Utah is out for more money with less applications, they will probably accomplish their goal.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
Well, I'm in for the long haul. I've got 8 points for elk. Once I draw that I'll be in for Mule Deer. Might as well, since drawing a Desert Sheep tag is my only chance to hunt them; no Mexico for this poor boy.
 
$65 is chump change. Spent $40 in gas this morning to go shoot 5 ducks. Like to see them raise it up to $200 - $300 to apply. That would definitely help improve my odds...
 
"This license fee for non-residents is a direct result of SFW"

Ha Ha I am surprised it took 37 posts for someone to say this.
They get blamed for everything!!

I think it should be hard to complain about $65 dollars. I put in for Idaho every year, haven't drawn since 01, and its a lot more for the license and NO pref. points
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-07 AT 09:56PM (MST)[p]My odds are improving with every post.

Sitting on 12 elk points in AZ and that cost a helluva lot more than $65 a year.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-17-07 AT 05:49AM (MST)[p]Think about this: This may improve the odds for hunts where the odds were already dismal. For instance, I would have to be a REAL opptomist to keep giving them $75/year for a 1 in 2000 chance for a tag. However, this may move some people to the hunts where the odds were not so bad, and thereby make it harder to draw those units, so don't count your chickens on improved odds yet.

With guys like me in no man's land (only 3 points) it will be a tough call.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
I'm a Utah resident. I hate to see sportsmen priced out of what we love to do. This is what it cost me to apply in other states.

Arizona buy a approx $150.00 license and application fees.

Nevada buy $150.00 license and with application fees about $200.

Idaho buy $141.50 license, application fees, stamps, etc equal $175

Wyoming since 75% of permits go to the bonus point pool, you have to play. $100 sheep, $75 Moose, $50 elk, $40 deer, $30 antelope, application fees, conservation stamp, equals $330.00 per year.

For years Utah was 10 dollars. No license. You get bonus points. Now $75 dollars. Can hunt general season elk and deer usually. I think Utah has tried to be fair. MO
 
Its kinda tough to toss 9 pts for deer & 9 for goats. Probably stick it out and find some way to use the license.
 
What a blessing it would be to have all the non res hunters bann together and not put in. Trust me I would pay 5 times the fees to keep non res out..
 
With only 1 or 2 tags even available for nonresidents in the area I apply for, that won't happen. Without a doubt, more than that will apply.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
I'm dropping utah - just aren't enough tags available. I have 5 and will never draw Henrys, Pauns, Bookcliffs or Vernon. Plus this is just the start they will increase the cost every couple of years and reduce the tag numbers further (or give them to the clubs to auction off.)
 
Spend the $$$ or stay home! I hope you stay home!! Utah has been invaded for many years by hunters that think this is the place to come and wipe out the 2 point bucks and head home!
 
well,with 7 non-res points for elk,I would have to say Im still in.Hope I draw before the prices go up again.I also hope that the increase in fees will up my odds,but Im not betting on it.
 
>$65, are you kidding me. It's
>the lowest non-res license anywhere.
>
>
>Arizona charges NRs $150 to put
>in for the draw.
>
>Idaho charges NRs $141 to put
>in.
>
>Nevada NRs $142 to put
>in.
>
>Colorado is now making people buy
>a hunting license to apply.
>
>
>And you guys are complaining about
>a mesely $65.

Colorado does NOT require people buy a hunting license to apply. WHat the heck are you babbling about Jim?
Colorado is THE ONLY STATE where anyone can buy an over the counter tag to hunt elk...unlimited in number...Resident or non-resident. NO OTHER STATE COMES CLOSE.
 
I hate to bring up some real facts, but i will anyway.

BAck in the good old days - rior to 2007, the $5 application fee did absolutely NOTHING to secure or improve habitat or grow bucks bulls or rams. It went to a computer company.

It cost a lot of money these days to fix habitat - $100 an acres, plus, even more to buy acreage to protect, and it cost a lot to fly helicopter surveys, protect against poachers, etc.

So, now, everyone who wants to hunt in Utah someday, gets the chance to help pay to grow the herds and habitats, a $65 non res. and $35 resident tag each year. This also brings matching PR funds.

This license money will be spent well. More criters in the future to draw a tag for.

Every year, i get to pay Wyoming about $250 to apply and get bonus points. The issue there that really ticks me off, is that basically, my money is going to help pay the $2 Million direct cost of grizzly and bear managment costs, and also make up for decrease in license sales because of reduced moose, elk, etc. from wolf and grizz predation.


At least your money in Utah is going to grow more elk, moose, deer, bighorns, antelope, bison, etc.

No good answers, i guess i will have to quit drinking and use that money to buy non resident licenses or bonus points, or better yet, let PETA, HSUS, etc. quit paying attorneys to stop wolf delisting, and start paying for managment and elk habitat projects.
 
If the money is going on the ground for the animals we love to hunt it should not be that big of deal. Yes I complain about paying license fees to other States also but once you draw the tags that stops the bleeding and you are in for one hell of a hunt TRUST ME.
 
The difference between Wyoming and Utah is that I will hunt in wyoming in 3 to 5 years. Statistically I won't hunt deer in Utah for 20 years. Same with Nevada - I will pay but I know I will get a tag there in 3-10 years depending on unit. With the paltry number of non-resident tags available through the draw it doesn't make any sense in utah. Worth $5 yeah but not much more unless you have a lot of points already. Utah gives way, way, way too many tags to the clubs to auction off. Wyoming and Nevada dont do that. It is absurd to compare Utah to Wyoming. Read Eastmans article on utah and where the non-resident tags are going - pretty simple to understand.
 
gl7mm,

The Eastman's article you refered to is so full of inacuracies, i hope Mike Eastman will publish my factual rebutal.

For starters, after trashing Utah, the auciton tags, no big bucks, mis treatment of non residents, THE COVER OF THE EASTMANS' ISSUE, IS A TEXAS HUNTER, WITH A MONSTER UTAH BUCK PUBLIC LAND BUCK, 95% CHANCE AN AUCTION TAG !! How is that for Hypocracy at its finest ?

This is also a VERY SIMPLE issue to understand, that Eastman doesn't. Utah's auction tags are 5% of the total offered. So, as the tags generate millions, and millions more in matching funds are invested, the herds have grown dramatically, the total number of auction tags has gone up, the percentage stays the same - 5%.

If you go back 10 to 15 years, under this program, Sheep tags have gone from 8 to nearly 70, trophy elk from 500 to over 2,000, super quality deer from less than 200 to 800, and dramatic improvement in general season quanity and quality for 97,000 hunters. the Henry Mts - now probably the best deer unit in the world, was closed to hunting, so few deer, and so few two point bucks, same with the Book Cliffs. Lots of tag money went to make those units, NOW world class, thus your drawing odds are LONG, everyone wants one of those tags.

so, as an example, when there were 500 trophy elk tags, there were 25 auction tags. When the herds grew, and now there are 2,000 tags, that means there are 100 auciton tags. Utah didn't just print elk tags like Arizona and Nevada are doing, and dramatically decreasing the quality of bulls, Utah invested in the habitat, and grew the base herds.

You are correct from the pure standpoint of yes, in Wyoming, a non resident will draw a deer tag in 3-5 years. IN Utah, the Henries, Pauns. or Book Cliffs might be 1 in 20 or 30.

However, the Utah general season tags, in which the quality of bucks is approaching Wyoming, you could draw a Utah general tag most likely every 2-3 years. A Wyoming hunter shot a 37 inch MONSTER buck on a general season, public land permit this year in Utah.

While other states sit and moan about no money to make things better, the Utah system is a bit like a business. Take 5% of the profits, reinvest them into the company, and grow the business. the 5% of the Auction tags generate almost as much money as the 95% provided in the normal draw. the 95% draw tag money goes into basic day to day operations and managment. The 5% goes to dramatically improve habitat, acquire new habitat, start new herds, and overall increase herds, quality of bucks, bulls, and rams, and more opportunity.

The biggest problem now in Utah, is that when hunting sucked a big one ten plus years ago, only 20,000 hunters applied for the limited tags. Now, that the hunts are WORLD CLASS, over 225,000 people apply, thus, making the odds terrible.

AT any rate, some facts i hope Eastman's will publish, if not, here it is.

Don
 
DON,You can keep talking til your blue in the face. but no matter what you say,a certain percentage of people will never get it....
 
Fullcry,

The important thing is the people who make decision get it, and they support the ideas to invest for the future. If the results were not there, their would be NO support, not from me either

A lot of former critics, once they get the facts, have jumped on Board, and are helping push the train along.

That is why i spend some time on here, lot of good folks have come on board, there are a lot of issues to tackle and we need more people and more money. Every sportsmen should belong to some group.

glad to answer any Qs

Don
 
Just a couple thoughts.
Maybe we should start requiring licenses of ALL people who enjoy wildlife, not just the hunters. Maybe we should require
a license (not just a fee) for all wildlife watchers who enter a state or federal wildlife area or refuge. Why should they get to enjoy the bounties of hunters efforts without having to pay.
this is like using our highway dollars paid with gas taxes to build bicycle paths along our highways. The bicyclists are not paying for those paths the motorists are.
Anyway,
just did a little math on the odds for the henry's rifle hunt.
something you all probably already know but,
total applicants for the 2 nonresident tags 975.
I will have 11 deer points this year. however there are 50 applicants with more points than me. Assuming they all continue to put in until drawn, I will never draw the bonus point tag in my lifetime. Unless tag numbers go up dramatically. So, I am in with the other 974 applicants for the 1 other tag. But the odds are not 1 in 974. for every bonus point an applicant has he gets 1 number for the draw.
total number of bonus points for all apps was 4978.
My odds of drawing this tag? 12 in 4978 or 1 in 415.
Does this sound right?
 
I think it's safe to say that every state has seen a huge increase in applicants for tags-not just Utah.

Utah's general hunts on par with Wyoming???

Lets take a poll.

Who among you would take a general Utah tag over a fairly easty to draw Wyoming tag say-G,H,K,F???

I also found it kind of funny to see that landowner or conservation Paunsaugunt tag buck on the cover of "Eastmans," but it is what it is-a dang nice buck.

Speaking of funny things in magazines, did anyone else get a kick out of the "Sportsman's Voice" (SFWs Publication) plugging one of the Radon's archery bucks as "general season" Ut buck only to see it later in "Muley Crazy" showing it was a Colordo buck?.......

Utah has big elk because of limited hunting, more so than habitat and big $$$ projects...... If you don't kill them they get big. Kind of like the deer on the Henries..the Paunsaugunt....the Book Cliffs....Colorado.....

How many of you think our general Utah deer hunting is better today than it was 10 years ago???


I agree that Utah has made it really easy in the past, and is still a good deal even with the increased costs.

You guys with deer points should stay in the game. Our deer hunting is going to get better if the conservation groups decide it's time. And from what I can tell, there's a change coming......

Might even get as good as Wyoming;)

Just making coversation-don't anybody get their panties in a wad over this post! It's Christmas for crying out loud!
 
The general deer hunting in Utah is bad, real bad, unless you like shooting two points. The deer hunting is worse than it was 10 years ago. So Don one guy out of 97,000 hunters killed a good one. I like them odds. I agree with the last post that limiting the hunting and time to build the herds has made things better, not just the money that is thrown at it. In the 70s there were hardley any elk in the state and look at what is here now. SFW has helped some but they certainly cant take all the credit. The elk herds in Utah have been getting bigger every year long before SFW came around. We are all tax payers and we should all have the same chance of getting a tag on public lands. Money boys should not have preferance over every one else on public lands. How much money is generated with the sportsmans tags in the state. Give more of them if you need to but everyone has the same chance with that route. To me that is more important and ethical than selling tags to the money boys. Buy the way I am a FSW member. SFW have done good things here in Utah but you are heading down the wrong path with the auction tags.
 
One thing I want to keep reminding everyone is this - JUST BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE IS CHARGING IT DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!

Unreal, everyone complained about buying a license to apply when AZ, NV etc made you. Now we suddenly think that is the "norm" so a cheaper license is ok! I am not saying the cost is to high I am simply saying in 10 guys are screwing you but one is only screwing you for half as much that is NOT GOOD!!!!!!

IMO CO is right on, $25 for an elk point, $10 app fees, in my mind that is fair. It will make plenty of money. Beyond that is getting crazy.

That said I will still apply (I have 6 points for elk) but once I draw I may be done. No way I am drawing elk a 2nd time with the 5 year wait.

If everyone raised NR app fees for elk to $5000 and Utah only charged $2500 would you say Utah is still cheaper so it is ok?

Sure $75 to apply is not a lot, but considering the odds for a newbie are way under 1% for most tags it is a lot. That would mean, assuming 1/2% odds you would need to spend $15000 to get 100% odds. I know points increase odds in the future etc - but this is just some food for thought.

WY makes $20,000 in NR app fees for each NR sheep tag they issue. Fair?

I do not mind paying some money but sticking it to NR left and right, chargin huge amounts to apply, and cutting tags is getting old (I am referring to all states).

I love it out west and will always go, no matter what it costs, but I see a big problem in the future and worry about if our kids will be able to hunt big game out west as a NR, in a decent area, more then once in their lifetime. I do not think so.

Sorry to rant just trying to make you think and question what we are being handed, look outside the box.

I CANNOT WAIT to hunt Utah, or AZ for that matter, going to be a great hunt, and higher prices just help me draw more if I stick it out.
 
Prism,

I will double check with Raddon's but they told me that 30 inch buck - archery buck put in the Voice - came of the Utah general season archery. That is why it was in the voice, i will double check and see.

The next issue of the voice will have LOTS of HUGE general season bucks coming out of Utah.

Do sportsmen want more, yes. Will we work for more, yes.

The best data available shows the post season buck/doe ratios on Utah's general season units 250% better than it was 10-12 years ago.
 
Drymountain,

I appreciate your comments, but here are two facts to consider, then reformulate or come up with a better plan.

1. the sportsmen tags, generate zero, or very little revenue for conservation. the application fees go to a Nevada computer company to conduct the draw.

2. We are all taxpayers, correct. However, 99.9% of that money goes into roads, schools, health care, prisons, etc. etc. Very little if any goes into wildlife management or conservation.

So, what is the next best way to get habitat improvement, land acquisition funds, several million dollars each year ?

And, i am fully aware elk herds were expanding before SFW. However, the old Board of Big Game control, had plans to reduce elk to 30,000. The reason that didn't happen was a lot of work.

It was a BIG political fight, one that SFW was in the most, and now elk herds are around 65,000, and with all the habitat work being done, there is a chance to move that number higher, along with more deer.

Merry Christmas to all, it is important for everyone to be involved.
 
First I appreciate the fact that every state has to raise funds if they want to increase hunter opportunity. And we should all be grateful that we have organizations filled with volunteers to help with the desperately needed projects. We have an obligation to support them financially. I have nothing but the greatest regard for those folks. The frustration that comes out in a thread like this in my opinion is that increasingly Non-resident opportunity is being shrouded in auction tags, guide requirements to get a tag, landowner programs etc. The common component is big bucks. A slippery slope that we are getting near the bottom of. And Utah is not alone in that regard. So the residents complain about the Non-residents because they throw their money at those opportunities and buy the best hunts in the state, and the bulk of non-residents (working stiffs) complain because they lose opportunity and on and on it goes. Bottom line I would be happy to pay a reasonable fee every single year - buy a point or a license if I saw a light at the end of the tunnel. I do it in the other states. If the opportunity was there in Utah they could charge fees similar to WY, NV. Let me say it again thank you to SFW and all the other hard working organizations.
 
I got a couple questions.
How do we know that the increased revenue and matching funds from these license sales will go directly into habitat and more animals on the ground?
How do we know that with this increase revenue that the dept. won't divert other funds that would have gone to habitat and hunting species, to other programs.
How do we know they won't take these funds and spend it on fisheries? I like fishing too, but hunting license revenue should go to hunting programs right?
How do we know they won't take these funds and hire new bureaucrats and unnecessary personnel?
HOw do we know that the legislature wont trim and cut general revenue contributions that would have went to the dept. because of this new revenue?
That could definitely happen, I think.
Are there any guarantees that this money will go to more animals on the ground?
 
I am still confused by some of these complaints. I could sympathize with the "Auction Tag" arguement if our elk herds were decreasing. I hunted Utah in the 80's and it was a major event if one even got a cow tag. A 300 bull was unheard of.

So if our herds are improving, due to auction funds, who cares if the sell 10,000 tags to auction. As long as there is improved quality and opportunity, why does it matter?

Now I know that SFW can't take all credit. However, they should get alot of it. I am not convinced by our deer herd quality YET.
But, I am willing to wait it out a few years.

I have heard many, many times, people saying (myself included) that they would be willing to pay double (or more) for a license if it went to our herds. Well NR's here is your opportunity :)
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-07 AT 09:49AM (MST)[p]Don,

Even if the buck was a Colorado deer, I'm sure it was an honest mistake. Just kind of funny though with all of the talk of the good old days for Utah deer are back, etc...

I've been an SFW member for pretty much from the beggining, and have tried to help out where I can. I do appreciate the fact that you're willing to get on here and mingle with the common folk.

That being said, my stance on conservation tags is not going to change anytime soon. We've got too many of them!

Best and Merry Christmas to all.

Woodrufhunter-You've gone LOCO:) It must be the cold temps up there.
 
I know I've said this before, but I'll say it again. If we have 90k deer tags for gen areas thats where the $ should be spent. I dont want to see the wealth tags profit being spent on areas only THEY hunt! The limited numbers of tags are why they are succeeding.
 
One thing to remember. This is not just pick on the non resident. Residents have to buy a 35 dollar license. Non Residents have to buy a 65 dollar license to apply. This law affects EVERYONE who wants to apply or buy a tag. I know in most surrounding states, residents don't have to buy a license to apply for hunts. IF they followed Utah. Nevada,Arizona, Idaho, res license would cost 75 dollars. Points for Wyoming res would be expensive as well. I wish all western states would allocate at least 10% of tags for non residents. We need to try to keep hunting fair and affordable.
 

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