NR special draw license went WAY up...

[Buckfever34]

As a NR that hunts in WY every year, this is a punch in the gut.


I would assume this will push some hunters to start sitting out a year to grab a point to avoid the special draw and just apply in the regular with a point in some units.

The silver lining is that, at least in the area I hunt, this should allow the tag to be all but guaranteed in the "special" for several years to come.

Just sharing information...credit to EHJ on the article I copy/pasted below...

More Price Increases in Wyoming​

By Guy Eastman​

A new year has brought an ugly surprise for non-resident big game applicants in Wyoming. A very steep price increase is on the very near horizon for the “Special Draw” applications for non-resident deer, elk and antelope licenses. In addition, the prices on sheep, moose, goat and bison were also hiked for the new year as well.
The news is not all bad however, the “Regular Draw” prices for non-resident applicants where held steady as well as all resident license and preference point pricing.

As sure as time itself, a price increase was bound to happen at some point. Particularly considering the fact that the regular versus special draw has grown into parity, and in some cases the regular, cheaper draw actually had better odds over the past few years for a few hunts, which had the opposite of the intended effect on applicant behaviors, the logical decision was to increase the price of the special in an effort to push more applicants in to the cheaper draw and out of the special drawing.
The net effect is non-resident special elk went from $1,283 to now $1,965, a 53% net increase, while the special deer application went from $677 to $1,216, a net increase of 79%, and the special antelope license saw the steepest increase of more than 93%, from $629 to now $1,215. Needless to say, this will surely generate a substantial increase in revenue for the department from desperate non-resident hunters.

While these price increases might seem logical to some, the increase in non-resident prices for sheep, moose, goat and bison is more suspicious. In an interesting twist, last year the Wyoming Legislature decreased the non-resident allocation for these tags by about 35% on average. This year the state increased the price for these tags by about 50%, what a coincidence some might say.

In the end, the price for a non-resident sheep tag in Wyoming will rise by about 30% from $2,335 to $3,017. The non-resident moose license saw the largest increase from $1,997 to now a whopping $2,767, an increase of nearly 40%. The goat and bison licenses increased by 27% and 36% respectively. At these rates, every non-resident sheep tag sold equals nearly 20 resident sheep tags in revenue, not bad for the Department’s budget. I guess that 90/10 cut doesn’t hurt too bad after all.

The fact remains, this sport is getting ever more expensive no matter how you cut it. As more and more states continue to struggle with big game management more and more pressure is put on the Wyoming draw system, and I don’t see any end in sight for this trend. Buckle up, this is going to be a very rough year for draws and costs and it could just be the beginning.

 

[yotebuster17]

This won’t help draw odds at all in the top tier units. Miiiight make a small difference in mid to low tier units though.

 

[Sparks Shooter]

People will complain.......and then pay up. This wont affect draw odds at all.----SS

 

[SS!]

Meh

 

[SS!]

What hasn’t went up in price? Wages are up too. Stop your crying. Most vacation spots have had a price increase, why should Wyoming be different? You don’t like the price, don’t go on vacation to shoot an elk in WY.

If you can’t afford your vacation in WY every year you can find somewhere else, don’t go every year or make more money. Your choice.

 

[Buckfever34]

What hasn’t went up in price? Wages are up too. Stop your crying. Most vacation spots have had a price increase, why should Wyoming be different? You don’t like the price, don’t go on vacation to shoot an elk in WY.

Make more money.

LOL, who's crying?

As I said, sharing information...nothing more, nothing less.

 

[mulecreek]

Thank God Eastman's said something about this, otherwise no one would have heard about it. Surprised it wasn't discussed on a thread or two here.

 

[DaveD]

Thank God Eastman's said something about this, otherwise no one would have heard about it. Surprised it wasn't discussed on a thread or two here.

Funny how many people don't hear about things until application time.

 

[SS!]

LOL, who's crying?

As I said, sharing information...nothing more, nothing less.

If you’re sharing info from guy eastman that means you follow him which automatically makes you a crybaby. Punch in the gut!

 

[Togwotee]

As others have said it won't help the odds on the top units. mid range ones I expect it will. greed is a constant factor you have to accept.

While I have no problem getting hosed on the price. but I do resent the moving of the goalpost. I've drawn my sheep and moose tags in WY and I'm glad I'm done with that, when they cut the quota in half all the guys with 20 points got the rug pulled out from under them and that was a hose job. save the money you're getting screwed out of and go to Canada where you get something for your money.

 

[WiBuckslayer523]

Guy said the regular price draw may have better odds????

 

[yotebuster17]

As others have said it won't help the odds on the top units. mid range ones I expect it will. greed is a constant factor you have to accept.

While I have no problem getting hosed on the price. but I do resent the moving of the goalpost. I've drawn my sheep and moose tags in WY and I'm glad I'm done with that, when they cut the quota in half all the guys with 20 points got the rug pulled out from under them and that was a hose job. save the money you're getting screwed out of and go to Canada where you get something for your money.

I don’t know that greed is the right word for it. The G&F is essentially a non profit, they aren’t taking the excess home. They are trying to keep up with ever increasing issues with ever decreasing funding. I spend more money then I care to even think about on taxes every year, but the money is send to state G&F agencies that is earmarked for them causes me to lose zero sleep. If you wanna get mad about govt overspending, add up all of your taxes (don’t forget sales and property taxes) and figure out what you pay those A holes every day 365 days a year for the limited services you get in return. That’ll make a $600 elk tag increase seem pretty small, and like I said it goes to something I care for vs god knows where with he rest

 

[Buckfever34]

Guy said the regular price draw may have better odds????

I think what he is referencing is the fact that in many areas there had been so many more applications on the "special" side that the "regular" odds were starting to level out or even flip in some areas.

I am sure G&F is hoping that this will eliminate that.

Also, to clarify, I am not complaining about any of this. As an out of stater that lives a long ways away from mulies I gotta pay if I wanna play. That's a fact. "Punch in the gut" was probably a poor choice of wording on my part. Yes, everything is more expensive--

I have now applied for and drawn the "special" license for many years in a row. No changes in WY's fee structure will change this application strategy for me. As I stated above, I am kinda excited about the change because it should all but guarantee a tag for a few years to come. Last year it had dropped from 100 percent to 98 percent. I fully expected to be one of the 2 outta 100 that had to stay home-lol.

 

[WiBuckslayer523]

Gotta pay it if we want to hunt out there. Maybe we w skip Deadwood this year lol

 

[WiBuckslayer523]

Maybe not

 

[wweaver79]

This is why even with a "real job" I still have my part time lawn/landscaping gig. It is not getting any cheaper. Things are going up fast- trucks, food, tags all of it. I will keep working hard and keep going no matter what it is. Those hills are not getting shorter I want to get it all in now, then get old and fish more.

 

[Bob D.]

The January/February 2024 Eastman's Journal that I just received in the mail says the "total special elk tag cost is a whopping $1,335."

So I'm glad to see they didn't get it wrong everywhere.

 

[WapitiBob]

I think what he is referencing is the fact that in many areas there had been so many more applications on the "special" side that the "regular" odds were starting to level out or even flip in some areas.

I am sure G&F is hoping that this will eliminate that.

Game and Fish had nothing to do with the increase.

 

[jm77]

Game and Fish had nothing to do with the increase.

Not so sure about that, Bob. The director, through the Task Farse made it happen. Nesvik could have put a stop to it.

 

[BuzzH]

Not so sure about that, Bob. The director, through the Task Farse made it happen. Nesvik could have put a stop to it.

Correct.

First things first, Nesvik being on that task farse was a direct conflict of interest. Its shocking the Governor allowed him to participate (well, not really considering who we have as a Governor).

Second, there was NO WAY Nesvik was going to say anything to stop, or even slow down a fee increase.

 

[DaveD]

The January/February 2024 Eastman's Journal that I just received in the mail says the "total special elk tag cost is a whopping $1,335."

So I'm glad to see they didn't get it wrong everywhere.

That's on top of the regular license fee so just over 2k total.

 

[Togwotee]

I don’t know that greed is the right word for it. The G&F is essentially a non profit, they aren’t taking the excess home. They are trying to keep up with ever increasing issues with ever decreasing funding. I spend more money then I care to even think about on taxes every year, but the money is send to state G&F agencies that is earmarked for them causes me to lose zero sleep. If you wanna get mad about govt overspending, add up all of your taxes (don’t forget sales and property taxes) and figure out what you pay those A holes every day 365 days a year for the limited services you get in return. That’ll make a $600 elk tag increase seem pretty small, and like I said it goes to something I care for vs god knows where with he rest

Of course it's greed. not necessarily by the game commission but by the resident hunters. the plan is to cut the quota in half and charge at least double for what is put out. they've done it on sheep and moose and they're not going to rest until they get deer, elk and pronghorn as well. they don't want to pay the lost nonresident revenue so they pile it on us.

As I said greed is a constant you have to deal with. this is classic greed and it's not just in WY and it's not just in hunting. but the good part of it is while the residents are laughing about it it puts their plan to cut deer, elk and pronghorn tags in jeopardy. because the lost revenue that would cause cannot be placed entirely on the backs of the NR, there are only so many millionaires to fleece and they don't buy high priced crap tags.

As far as the drawing odds go this will be very interesting. there's only a handful of elk tags in WY worth $2000 and I don't have the points for any of them. so outside those few top tags I expect the guys who pony up the big bucks to do well this year in the drawing.

 

[BuzzH]

I bet every single general special NR elk tag will be drawn at the special fee.

It's not that big of increase and already happens now.

 

[DaveD]

I bet every single general special NR elk tag will be drawn at the special fee.

It's not that big of increase and already happens now.

You are probably correct but I do wonder about the East Region. That one might be close.

 

[BuzzH]

You are probably correct but I do wonder about the East Region. That one might be close.

Enough outfitters will tell their clients they better apply for it or they won't draw.

However, you're probably correct, that one could be close. South and West special general will sell out in the initial draw.

 

[elkassassin]

I Can Tell You How to Save A Little Money:

Don't Go To Deadwood!

Gotta pay it if we want to hunt out there. Maybe we w skip Deadwood this year lol

 

[jm77]

Of course it's greed. not necessarily by the game commission but by the resident hunters.

I try my best to get along, but this is quite possibly one of your dumbest statements yet. Resident hunters had zero, zilch, nada to do with this increase.

 

[Togwotee]

I didn't say resident hunters were behind the special tag increase. I said they were behind the allocation cut . and the allocation cuts to the NR deer, elk and pronghorn allocation you're pushing for will force more increases in NR tag fees. disagree?

 

[WapitiBob]

Indirectly, Non residents who continued to apply and drive up demand for $1300 Elk licenses. And we’ll continue doing it at $2000.

 

[DaveD]

I didn't say resident hunters were behind the special tag increase. I said they were behind the allocation cut . and the allocation cuts to the NR deer, elk and pronghorn allocation you're pushing for will force more increases in NR tag fees. disagree?

Blaming an entire group for one thing they really don't have control over doesn't make sense. The reality is small groups on both sides are vocal but they don't always represent the masses.

 

[jm77]

I didn't say resident hunters were behind the special tag increase. I said they were behind the allocation cut . and the allocation cuts to the NR deer, elk and pronghorn allocation you're pushing for will force more increases in NR tag fees. disagree?

So you edited your comment to fit the narrative. No one is talking allocation on this thread, it's about the fee increase. Residents had nothing to do with that.

 

[Bookhead]

I voted against special tag increases for non residents in the public comments

 

[Togwotee]

Au contraire, are you sure the state isn't raising fees to recover some of the money lost from the NR sheep and moose tag cut? and the lost preference point fees from the guys who bailed once they realized they were screwed. I know some myself.

No matter how you want to play the nutshell game the state lost NR revenue , and now it's getting it back.

But my real point was the proposed cuts to the deer, elk and pronghorn allotments should they go through will blow your mind if you think these price increases are bad. double everything on day one and work up from there. that's greed.

 

[jims]

My guess is that outfitters had a lot more to do with the nonres fee increases than did Wyo res.

 

[lostinOregon]

Guy said the regular price draw may have better odds????

The odds in the regular will plummet

 

[BrianID]

$1200 for a pronghorn tag is crazy. Especially considering the how the pronghorn herds are doing in many areas of the state. I'm sure the special pronghorn tags will sell out in higher demand areas. Max point pronghorn units will stay max point for special pronghorn. I'm expecting many of the low demand areas to have left over special licenses.

I like hunting pronghorn and spending $1200 on a tag isn't a big deal to me but I'm even hesitant to pay that price. I could just buy a landowner tag in NM, save a bunch of travel time (time = $$) and have a better chance at a really big pronghorn.

These price increases just make hunting as a nonresident in Wyoming more of a rich man's sport. Very few of the nonresidents paying special prices will be middle class guys working blue collar jobs. This is a good deal for outfitters because it will shift more tags to their clients.

 

[BuzzH]

The odds in the regular will plummet

Maybe for elk, but any special fee pronghorn and deer tags not drawn will go into the regular fee pool. Might be a push or even better odds in some cases.

 

[lostinOregon]

I was thinking elk buzz, I am not sure how deer antelope will work out.

 

[Deercy]

Charge whatever. Regular is still cheap. Lots of options. Wish I was just buying tags for myself, instead of two freeloader teenager sons. My budget would possibly allow a special antelope. Oh well. What's wrong with waiting a bit longer. 1200 to hunt my favorite area, that I've never hunted with my own tag, twice with my boys on random luck, would be worth a lot.

 

[GeorgeE]

Wait until it goes 90/10… I say ditch Eastman’s, Hunt’n Fools and put it in the tag account…It’ll all work out in the end…

 

[Stillwater165]

$1,215.00 for a goat ……….. holy stupidity! Used to be basically begged to shoot them, the more the merrier…….. now look where we are !

 

[Moe]

Just move to the state you want to hunt in the most. Wyoming, maybe?

 

[WapitiBob]

Question: How did the bill raising the special license fees come about?

Answer:

The Wyoming Legislature, Game & Fish Commission and the Governor created a task force to study and put forth recommendations regarding wildlife and licensing issues. One very important idea studied by the WWTF was to create an outfitter only draw. The idea of an outfitter draw was studied in depth by the WWTF and ultimately it just didn’t have the support as a viable alternative. The WWTF recognized very early in the process the significant financial contribution to Wyoming’s tourism industry by outfitted non residents. We have also seen a huge increase in demand for Wyoming’s limited non resident licenses. The best example is our G & F department has received over 30,000 applications for non resident elk licenses for 7,250 total full price licenses the last two years.

This increase in applications has caused significantly harder draw odds. The difference between the special license fees and the regular license fees just wasn’t enough. The large volume of non resident applicants speaks volumes about the quality of Wyoming hunting and our licenses are under priced. In any business if your are turning away 75% of potential customers its obvious your product is severely under priced.

The bill recently passed by the legislature was put forth and supported by the WWTF by a super majority vote of 16-1-1. The regular license fee which is 60% of the available quota does not go up thus widening the gap between the special and regular license fees. Our logic was a wide gap between the two types of licenses would certainly benefit the outfitted client willing to pay much higher fees for better draw odds.

 

[grizzly]

$1200 for a pronghorn tag is crazy.

+1 I'll post $3k for a sheep tag any day, but an antelope isn't worth $1200 to me

 

[BuzzH]

Sheep are over-rated and most will be lucky to hunt 1-2 with tags they draw.

 

[dvolmer]

Charge whatever. Regular is still cheap. Lots of options. Wish I was just buying tags for myself, instead of two freeloader teenager sons. My budget would possibly allow a special antelope. Oh well. What's wrong with waiting a bit longer. 1200 to hunt my favorite area, that I've never hunted with my own tag, twice with my boys on random luck, would be worth a lot.

I guarantee that regular won’t be cheap for long. It will be up to the old special cost in no time.

 

[PleaseDear]

Pretty much everyone I talk to is doing the Pricey $ee for elk just to get out of the Wyo game.



I'm just gonna roll the dice and stay with my Cheapie Fee for elk, the 2-3 times I've done the Pricey $ee, over 17 years, I've felt so guilty if I Skunked out!


Oh, well.



Robb

 

[Conrad8899]

I voted against special tag increases for non residents in the public comments

I didnt like the idea either if WG&F needed the extra money there was other ways to get it....

 

[jims]

Every nonres that purchases pref pts each year adds an addition $ price to the tags they finally draw.

In retrospect, this adds to the importance of nonres by providing an even higher % to the WG&F license budget.

Everyone knows the influence and time spent in every TF meeting arguing over lobbying outfitter interests. Notice that the TF only lasted one year! If a similar group is established in future years it may be good to have several task force members that actually support every interest group (especially public residents and nonres hunters)!

It would be wise and a lot more powerful if Wyo res and nonres public hunters united forces to battle set aside outfitter and landowner tags in future years!

 

[treedagain]

Au contraire, are you sure the state isn't raising fees to recover some of the money lost from the NR sheep and moose tag cut? and the lost preference point fees from the guys who bailed once they realized they were screwed. I know some myself.

No matter how you want to play the nutshell game the state lost NR revenue , and now it's getting it back.

But my real point was the proposed cuts to the deer, elk and pronghorn allotments should they go through will blow your mind if you think these price increases are bad. double everything on day one and work up from there. that's greed.

I guess I am confused? So a state should not put residents 1st? Then charge accordingly to non-resident hunters any short fall in revenue? Do I like the increase? No.. will it stop me from applying? No..
Get over it. Deal with it. Or move on to another state.

 

[Chesterwyo]

It seems like every time there is a price increase the odds tend to get worse. People speculate that the increased cost will make people bow out, so they go ahead and pay the money and apply. There’s no limit to what states can charge for an elk tag.

 

[BuzzH]

It seems like every time there is a price increase the odds tend to get worse. People speculate that the increased cost will make people bow out, so they go ahead and pay the money and apply. There’s no limit to what states can charge for an elk tag.

Elk are also over rated and a lot more work than hunting deer or pronghorn.

But, you're right people will pay what it takes to hunt them.

 

[Chesterwyo]

Elk are also over rated and a lot more work than hunting deer or pronghorn.

But, you're right people will pay what it takes to hunt them.

Absolutely correct. Elk are the only animal that the “fun” evaporates once they are on the ground. Even if you have horses, or kill one near the road. IMO.

 

[Buckfever34]

Just move to the state you want to hunt in the most. Wyoming, maybe?

LOL.....I hear ya. If it weren't for a career and family I'd be there in a second.

I love it out there and have a lot of friends that live in Wyoming.

 

[SS!]

LOL.....I hear ya. If it weren't for a career and family I'd be there in a second.

I love it out there and have a lot of friends that live in Wyoming.

Guy Eastman is not your friend

 

[Buckfever34]

Guy Eastman is not your friend

Never met anyone from the Eastman family.

 

[Bookhead]

Elk are also over rated and a lot more work than hunting deer or pronghorn.

But, you're right people will pay what it takes to hunt them.

True statement. Forest carp

 

[BuzzH]

True statement. Forest carp

Well, as of now, its about all Wyoming has going for it big game wise. Of course, that could change via a couple bad decisions and a bit of political pressure in about a heartbeat.

Pronghorn and deer are in the tank.

 

[Bookhead]

Well, as of now, its about all Wyoming has going for it big game wise. Of course, that could change via a couple bad decisions and a bit of political pressure in about a heartbeat.

Pronghorn and deer are in the tank.

Yep they will find a way to screw it up. I enjoy deer hunting out of state much more then hunting here

 

[elks96]

HAHA. Last night my wife asked if she could pay for the NR Special and draw a tag as a resident. She has not drawn a tag yet despite applying for tags with over 60% success rates.... She loves hunting lopes enough that she would sacrifice all other tags and opportunity for a lope tag... I know this is likely a rare and extreme example, but I certain she would spend all her hunting money every year on a single good lope unit.

 

[BigChiefJ]

You're looking at this all wrong. NR Special Elk is about $2000 of free meat!

 

[Togwotee]

I guess I am confused? So a state should not put residents 1st? Then charge accordingly to non-resident hunters any short fall in revenue? Do I like the increase? No.. will it stop me from applying? No..
Get over it. Deal with it. Or move on to another state.

Look at what percentage of WY's fish and game budget comes from NR hunters and tell me WY doesn't put residents first. and tell me how cutting the NR quota in half decades after the game starts isn't putting residents first. don't cry for the residents they're doing fine. and I didn't say they couldn't do it or I couldn't deal with it.

I would deal with it by paying the new special tag price if I thought it would help me. but in the max point pool on the tag I want special odds have been running half what regular odds have been. and I expect the special odds to drop even more this year. on less desirable tags I expect the special odds to increase dramatically. if not this year then next, the guys that really want the tags will get purged this year.

 

[mulecreek]

Elk are also over rated

WTF!

 

[grizzly]

Sheep are over-rated

Blasphemy!

Elk are also over rated

Agreed. I don't care to ever have another elk tag. Sheep and deer for me!

 

[SS!]

I’ll trade you guys sheep meat for elk meat any day of the week.

 

[Wiszard]

The increase for deer is the only one that really effects me. I couldn't see myself paying the special fee for any of the big game species as long as I have other states to hunt to fill the year gaps. It just really depends on how badly you want to hunt a particular species and, obviously, how much money you can spend on hunting. I'm not upset with Wyoming....its just a bummer. My Dad and I went special on deer for 3 years in a row...got drawn each time so we beat the odds. I enjoyed each hunt we had and he may only have a few more left in him so I'll pay the money when I can.

We only live so long guys....hunt as much as you can.

 

[jims]

I guess it’s a matter of $ and priorities. There are a lot of great trips that can be made for the price of a special elk tag plus travel expenses, lodging and all the years paying for pref pts.

 

[jims]

States may sell every nonres tag but may lose their pants as more and more nonres drop out of applying and paying for pref pts. There may also be fewer new recruited applicants willing to start paying expensive pref pt fees if draw odds are horrible and it’s so expensive for tags.

With that said, the WG&F could actually loose more budget in the long run by charging more for nonres tags plus pref pt fees.

 

[DaveD]

States may sell every nonres tag but may lose their pants as more and more nonres drop out of applying and paying for pref pts. There may also be fewer new recruited applicants willing to start paying expensive pref pt fees if draw odds are horrible and it’s so expensive for tags.

With that said, the WG&F could actually loose more budget in the long run by charging more for nonres tags plus pref pt fees.

The way the numbers have steadily increased, I doubt it. I think they are quite a ways away from pricing themselves out. I don't make a lot of money but I find ways to pay for tags out west because it's what I love. I umpire baseball and work part time jobs to pull it off. Many others I know are the same.

 

[jims]

How many nonres families are willing to pay high pref pt fees for their kids plus parents with the expenses of nonres tags plus pref pts? As I mentioned earlier there will be fewer nonres willing to do this as time passes.

 

[BuzzH]

How many nonres families are willing to pay high pref pt fees for their kids plus parents with the expenses of nonres tags plus pref pts? As I mentioned earlier there will be fewer nonres willing to do this as time passes.

Thousands and thousands...every single year.

 

[SS!]

How many nonres families are willing to pay high pref pt fees for their kids plus parents with the expenses of nonres tags plus pref pts? As I mentioned earlier there will be fewer nonres willing to do this as time passes.

I buy preference points for friends that do not hunt and have no interest in hunting. I have full intention of point sharing here in a few years. I don’t find it expensive at all compared to taking the family out to dinner for one meal. Hell that’s one hour of entertainment that you’ll **** out later. I’ll buy points for all my kids for every state once they are eligible. It all comes down to priorities.

Making more money is easy. What’s not easy is making up a missed hunting season.

 

[yotebuster17]

States may sell every nonres tag but may lose their pants as more and more nonres drop out of applying and paying for pref pts. There may also be fewer new recruited applicants willing to start paying expensive pref pt fees if draw odds are horrible and it’s so expensive for tags.

With that said, the WG&F could actually loose more budget in the long run by charging more for nonres tags plus pref pt fees.

NR applications will NEVER go down. Mark my words.

 

[jims]

Expensive nonres licenses and pref pts may be affordable for you but what about 85% of nonres with families with kids that barely can afford them? Try talking average Joe hunting wives into expensive pref pt and license fees in the scenarios you mentioned above.

Like I’ve been saying for years, nonres youth across the country are losing interest in hunting states like Wyo because parents can’t afford the cost plus odds of drawing nonres tags have gone through the roof.

In reality, how much does it cost each year for a nonres family with 3 youth plus a father to apply for multiple pref pt species in Wyo? Each youth is $330 and adult is $490 plus other fees. That is $1,480 just to apply for all species each year. $1,480 buys quite a few dinners!

Over 10 years that is $14,800 and doesn't include the cost of multiple hunting licenses, travel, etc. Obviously once the 3 kids reach 18 they also will be charged $490/year to apply.

So much for college funds for nonres blue collar youth if they want to hunt Wyo. Unfortunately, this prices a lot of average Joe nonres youth families out of applying for tags. Compound this with the unlikelihood of drawing high demand tags and a lot of new families starting out say forget applying in Wyo. It isn't worth applying since it's so expensive and we'll never draw tags!

Each family that quits or doesn't apply for tags is not contributing $14,800 to the WG&F over 10 years. This adds up in a hurry if you consider how many families with kids pull the plug or have no desire to start applying for the first time. The WG&F is the real loser in lost revenue.

Obviously, the prices will never drop and draw odds will likely never improve over time. It definitely is something to consider as Wyo prices out the average Joe family.

It certainly is sad to see the hunting heritage across the Western US for nonres youth hunters faltering! Nonresident hunting opportunity that was available to the older generation is slowly but surely slipping away. Wyo is raising their middle finger to the average Joe nonres family and doesn't seem to care!

Wyo residents are tickled to death with nonres picking up the tab paying an even greater proportion of the WG&G budget! Wyo res tag fees are dirt cheap....nice!

What Wyo res don't realize is how many nonres continue to join them by moving to Wyoming? Wyo res draw odds for limited tags will continue to drop and there will be more and more Wyo res hunting general deer and elk units.

 

[SS!]

Expensive nonres licenses and pref pts may be affordable for you but what about 85% of nonres with families with kids that barely can afford them? Try talking average Joe hunting wives into expensive pref pt and license fees in the scenarios you mentioned above.

Again it comes down to priorities. If you can’t afford a few hundred dollars in points for your future vacations than you’re not providing for your family. Maybe spend less time watching tv, looking at monstermuleys. Find a mind distraction that makes you money.

Most people have to save for vacations. Out of state hunting is a type of vacation (like all hunting) so boo hoo on the cost of points. Buying a point is the same concept as putting aside money for a future vacation.

 

[Deercy]

Expensive nonres licenses and pref pts may be affordable for you but what about 85% of nonres with families with kids that barely can afford them? Try talking average Joe hunting wives into expensive pref pt and license fees in the scenarios you mentioned above.

Like I’ve been saying for years, nonres youth across the country are losing interest in hunting states like Wyo because parents can’t afford the cost plus odds of drawing nonres tags have gone through the roof.

In reality, how much does it cost each year for a nonres family with 3 youth plus a father to apply for multiple pref pt species in Wyo? Each youth is $330 and adult is $490 plus other fees. That is $1,480 just to apply for all species each year. $1,480 buys quite a few dinners!

Over 10 years that is $14,800 and doesn't include the cost of multiple hunting licenses, travel, etc. Obviously once the 3 kids reach 18 they also will be charged $490/year to apply.

So much for college funds for nonres blue collar youth if they want to hunt Wyo. Unfortunately, this prices a lot of average Joe nonres youth families out of applying for tags. Compound this with the unlikelihood of drawing high demand tags and a lot of new families starting out say forget applying in Wyo. It isn't worth applying since it's so expensive and we'll never draw tags!

Each family that quits or doesn't apply for tags is not contributing $14,800 to the WG&F over 10 years. This adds up in a hurry if you consider how many families with kids pull the plug or have no desire to start applying for the first time. The WG&F is the real loser in lost revenue.

Obviously, the prices will never drop and draw odds will likely never improve over time. It definitely is something to consider as Wyo prices out the average Joe family.

It certainly is sad to see the hunting heritage across the Western US for nonres youth hunters faltering! Nonresident hunting opportunity that was available to the older generation is slowly but surely slipping away. Wyo is raising their middle finger to the average Joe nonres family and doesn't seem to care!

Wyo residents are tickled to death with nonres picking up the tab paying an even greater proportion of the WG&G budget! Wyo res tag fees are dirt cheap....nice!

What Wyo res don't realize is how many nonres continue to join them by moving to Wyoming? Wyo res draw odds for limited tags will continue to drop and there will be more and more Wyo res hunting general deer and elk units.

Nonresident youth don't NEED to hunt out of state. My kids are entitled enough. I do apply them, but its a privilege. My dad did absolutely nothing for me as far as hunting. He gave me food and clothes and a place to sleep. He thought my hunting was a waste of time and money. He's a solid character. I'm late to the game on western hunting, as far as opportunities in the more coveted species go, but my kids have all the opportunities to hunt they NEED right here. Those Wyoming expenses will be amazing when we turn them into experiences. Until then I'll shell out the cash.

 

[WapitiBob]

$125 for E/D/A points, is not that bad.

 

[SS!]

Why should any state sell the points for less than what the market is wiling to pay? Should we have the resorts in Mexico and Costa Rica lower their prices so Jim from CO can afford it? Good grief.

 

[BuzzH]

I bought/buy my NR nephews their points and tags here for them. That way I don't have to try to figure out what to get them for Christmas and Birthdays.

Points for NR youth are $10 for DEA, Sebastian needs to stop with the lies. Plus NR youth license fees are dirt cheap.

 

[Deercy]

When my boys are classified as adults, they will have 6 points in deer, elk, and antelope. Way, WAY, more than I had. All for 180. In the meantime, if they draw a lucky random tag for one of those low draw odds tags, it's cheap. I'm 41 and have only hunted cows in Wyoming. My lucky boys will hunt it multiple times by the time they are that age. Headed out to ice fish for some of those delicious walleye as soon as my wife gets home from the airport. More opportunity! The days of multiple moose and sheep tags seem to have disappeared, crowds are an issue, tags aren't cheap, but I'm easy to please. A good campfire, a chewy piece of backstrap, some intermittent cell service, and a leftover elk tag, or a low level deer tag, and my focus is sharp.

 

[jm77]

Expensive nonres licenses and pref pts may be affordable for you but what about 85% of nonres with families with kids that barely can afford them? Try talking average Joe hunting wives into expensive pref pt and license fees in the scenarios you mentioned above.

Like I’ve been saying for years, nonres youth across the country are losing interest in hunting states like Wyo because parents can’t afford the cost plus odds of drawing nonres tags have gone through the roof.

In reality, how much does it cost each year for a nonres family with 3 youth plus a father to apply for multiple pref pt species in Wyo? Each youth is $330 and adult is $490 plus other fees. That is $1,480 just to apply for all species each year. $1,480 buys quite a few dinners!

Over 10 years that is $14,800 and doesn't include the cost of multiple hunting licenses, travel, etc. Obviously once the 3 kids reach 18 they also will be charged $490/year to apply.

So much for college funds for nonres blue collar youth if they want to hunt Wyo. Unfortunately, this prices a lot of average Joe nonres youth families out of applying for tags. Compound this with the unlikelihood of drawing high demand tags and a lot of new families starting out say forget applying in Wyo. It isn't worth applying since it's so expensive and we'll never draw tags!

Each family that quits or doesn't apply for tags is not contributing $14,800 to the WG&F over 10 years. This adds up in a hurry if you consider how many families with kids pull the plug or have no desire to start applying for the first time. The WG&F is the real loser in lost revenue.

Obviously, the prices will never drop and draw odds will likely never improve over time. It definitely is something to consider as Wyo prices out the average Joe family.

It certainly is sad to see the hunting heritage across the Western US for nonres youth hunters faltering! Nonresident hunting opportunity that was available to the older generation is slowly but surely slipping away. Wyo is raising their middle finger to the average Joe nonres family and doesn't seem to care!

Wyo residents are tickled to death with nonres picking up the tab paying an even greater proportion of the WG&G budget! Wyo res tag fees are dirt cheap....nice!

What Wyo res don't realize is how many nonres continue to join them by moving to Wyoming? Wyo res draw odds for limited tags will continue to drop and there will be more and more Wyo res hunting general deer and elk units.

If youth aren't getting opportunities to hunt and they want to, then their parent needs kicked in the pants.

I'm not sure what @jims is trying to accomplish with his short stories, but it's not working.

 

[jims]

Yep nonres youth don’t need to hunt out of state. Glad to hear things have changed and you are sharing time in the outdoors with your sons.

How much are nonres youth moose and sheep pref pts? The prices I quoted were to apply for all species. They all add up!

Midwest nonres youth can hunt but can they hunt big game species that aren’t available in their home state?

How many nonres blue collar youth apply for Wyo sheep and moose pts? My guess is that if it were cheaper more youth would apply. The price has pretty much eliminated blue collar nonres youth. Does that make sense…only rich nonres kids that can afford extremely high pref pt/license fees plus $15,000 guided hunts apply?

Obviously states are going to sell every nonresident high demand tag. How many posts have we all read about nonres hunters drawing high demand tags so they no longer have to pay high pref pt fees for them, their families, and nonres hunting buddies.

The point I’m making is that the WG&F loses revenue with every nonres hunter, family, friends that drop out of the pref pt system. This is consistent revenue generated every year without selling any tags.

I can guarantee that there also is a chunk of nonres hunters/families, and buddies that would start off paying for pts for the first time if pts and tags were cheaper…lost WG&F revenue.

Just because Wyo raises license and pref pt prices doesn’t necessarily mean that their revenue will continue to rise at the same rate.

My guess is that in the long run the WGF would gain higher nonres pref pt revenue if nonres continued to buy pref pts (rather than dropping out) and the rate of new pref pt applicants continued to increase at the same rate with lower priced tags and pref pt fees.

i could be selfish because I personally like the new special price and pref pt fees. I save and pinch pennies exactly as many of you do to hunt and fish every year. That is actually one reason I’m still working and not retired!

My thoughts are unselfish and in concern of youth and new nonres hunters just starting out. I look back at all the incredible opportunities I had as a nonres growing up. Those options seem to be swallowed up by the wealthy that can hunt every year.

My caution is nothing more that to consider long term impacts to the nonres hunting heritage 20 years from today.

 

[Chesterwyo]

You’ve created a new demographic amongst the American Populace. “Blue Collar Youth”

 

[Deercy]

Yep nonres youth don’t need to hunt out of state. Glad to hear things have changed and you are sharing time in the outdoors with your sons.

How much are nonres youth moose and sheep pref pts? The prices I quoted were to apply for all species. They all add up!

Midwest nonres youth can hunt but can they hunt big game species that aren’t available in their home state?

How many nonres blue collar youth apply for Wyo sheep and moose pts? My guess is that if it were cheaper more youth would apply. The price has pretty much eliminated blue collar nonres youth. Does that make sense…only rich nonres kids that can afford extremely high pref pt/license fees plus $15,000 guided hunts apply?

Obviously states are going to sell every nonresident high demand tag. How many posts have we all read about nonres hunters drawing high demand tags so they no longer have to pay high pref pt fees for them, their families, and nonres hunting buddies.

The point I’m making is that the WG&F loses revenue with every nonres hunter, family, friends that drop out of the pref pt system. This is consistent revenue generated every year without selling any tags.

I can guarantee that there also is a chunk of nonres hunters/families, and buddies that would start off paying for pts for the first time if pts and tags were cheaper…lost WG&F revenue.

Just because Wyo raises license and pref pt prices doesn’t necessarily mean that their revenue will continue to rise at the same rate.

My guess is that in the long run the WGF would gain higher nonres pref pt revenue if nonres continued to buy pref pts (rather than dropping out) and the rate of new pref pt applicants continued to increase at the same rate with lower priced tags and pref pt fees.

i could be selfish because I personally like the new special price and pref pt fees. I save and pinch pennies exactly as many of you do to hunt and fish every year. That is actually one reason I’m still working and not retired!

My thoughts are unselfish and in concern of youth and new nonres hunters just starting out. I look back at all the incredible opportunities I had as a nonres growing up. Those options seem to be swallowed up by the wealthy that can hunt every year.

My caution is nothing more that to consider long term impacts to the nonres hunting heritage 20 years from today.

My point is the blue collar youth don't need to hunt moose and sheep. In Kentucky as a youth, I hunted what was available. Arrowheads, deer, squirrels, starlings... when I got to the stage of life where girls and gym was important, I hunted deer for a few mornings and evenings. Then as I settled down in my mid twenties, I got serious again. Deer from September to January. Hounds for coons and bunnies, turkeys spring and fall. All as a resident. My first nonresident experience was a blacktail hunt in Washington in 2012 at the age of 31. I decided to hunt the west, and moved to Colorado. I've hunted cows in Wyoming twice, one of my boys has gotten lucky with antelope twice. Hunted Nebraska for an afternoon for deer, and several eastern whitetail hunts. Oh, and a bear hunt in Washington. That's extra. Colorado, with all its flaws, has put out a lot of cheap opportunities. Wyoming is the dream that has no timetable. We had nine tags in Colorado last year, using points for only 2. Killed 7 animals.

 

[DaveD]

Yep nonres youth don’t need to hunt out of state. Glad to hear things have changed and you are sharing time in the outdoors with your sons.

How much are nonres youth moose and sheep pref pts? The prices I quoted were to apply for all species. They all add up!

Midwest nonres youth can hunt but can they hunt big game species that aren’t available in their home state?

How many nonres blue collar youth apply for Wyo sheep and moose pts? My guess is that if it were cheaper more youth would apply. The price has pretty much eliminated blue collar nonres youth. Does that make sense…only rich nonres kids that can afford extremely high pref pt/license fees plus $15,000 guided hunts apply?

Obviously states are going to sell every nonresident high demand tag. How many posts have we all read about nonres hunters drawing high demand tags so they no longer have to pay high pref pt fees for them, their families, and nonres hunting buddies.

The point I’m making is that the WG&F loses revenue with every nonres hunter, family, friends that drop out of the pref pt system. This is consistent revenue generated every year without selling any tags.

I can guarantee that there also is a chunk of nonres hunters/families, and buddies that would start off paying for pts for the first time if pts and tags were cheaper…lost WG&F revenue.

Just because Wyo raises license and pref pt prices doesn’t necessarily mean that their revenue will continue to rise at the same rate.

My guess is that in the long run the WGF would gain higher nonres pref pt revenue if nonres continued to buy pref pts (rather than dropping out) and the rate of new pref pt applicants continued to increase at the same rate with lower priced tags and pref pt fees.

i could be selfish because I personally like the new special price and pref pt fees. I save and pinch pennies exactly as many of you do to hunt and fish every year. That is actually one reason I’m still working and not retired!

My thoughts are unselfish and in concern of youth and new nonres hunters just starting out. I look back at all the incredible opportunities I had as a nonres growing up. Those options seem to be swallowed up by the wealthy that can hunt every year.

My caution is nothing more that to consider long term impacts to the nonres hunting heritage 20 years from today.

In reasons to your previous comments and the tagged... Why would you add moose and sheep for the kids? Kind of a ridiculous argument you are trying to make imo. Antelope, deer, and elk get kids excited. At $10 per point it is extremely affordable and then the permits are reduced price. I don't agree with everything the state has done but they treat kids very well imo.

 

[Sparks Shooter]

Why are divorces and hunting Wyoming so expensive???-----SS

 

[BuzzH]

Why are divorces and hunting Wyoming so expensive???-----SS

Because they're both worth it.

 

[Rie bread]

Even better cause both make the other one easier!

Because they're both worth it.

 

[DaveD]

Even better cause both make the other one easier!

You guys may have married the wrong woman... my wife chips in every year to make hunting in Wyoming easier every year. Of course she likes a tag herself occasionally.

 

[Rie bread]

You guys may have married the wrong woman... my wife chips in every year to make hunting in Wyoming easier every year. Of course she likes a tag herself occasionally.

Only married once my man. She’s my shooter in archery elk season

 

[SS!]

You’ve created a new demographic amongst the American Populace. “Blue Collar Youth”

I’m still laughing about this

 

[Homer]

Thank God Eastman's said something about this, otherwise no one would have heard about it. Surprised it wasn't discussed on a thread or two here.

It was far from a secret.......

 

[Chesterwyo]

I’m still laughing about this

I pulled my son out of school, and mounted a Lincoln Welder to the trunk of his Kia. Told him he’s going to have to burn some stick if he wants to be able to afford his deer and elk tags.

 

[Snoopdogg]

I'm glad I stopped points in Wyoming for all species a while ago. I'll miss hunting speed goats too, but luckily there are other states to fill my big game needs.

 

[AZGuy]

+1 I'll post $3k for a sheep tag any day, but an antelope isn't worth $1200 to me

Tough times with your boy in office, eh? I hope it goes to 4K a tag. Any gentle reminder the producers can lend the complainers is good by me. Vote responsibly

 

[AZGuy]

How many nonres families are willing to pay high pref pt fees for their kids plus parents with the expenses of nonres tags plus pref pts? As I mentioned earlier there will be fewer nonres willing to do this as time passes.

It’s going up, don’t kid yourself.

 

[mulecreek]

It was far from a secret.......

No sh!t?

 

[P.T. Jeffers]

Fight amongst yourselves, I guess, but the crux of the problem is a severely bloated bureaucracy (WYGFD) that basically serves only a few entities such as the land barons and the outfitters and that connived task 'farce'. There are more red shits skulking around the landscape vs. actual critters. Ask yourself if the hunting and fishing is better now then 10 years ago?No, it's not yet there are 100's of shiny new green 3/4 pickups loaded to the gills driving all over the state. Want things to get better? Cut about 50% of the WYGFD workforce and make the Director be an elected position. Nesvik sucks more then even that Arizona migrant who was a phoenix golfing buddy of the previous Governor

 

[Sparks Shooter]

Fight amongst yourselves, I guess, but the crux of the problem is a severely bloated bureaucracy (WYGFD) that basically serves only a few entities such as the land barons and the outfitters and that connived task 'farce'. There are more red shits skulking around the landscape vs. actual critters. Ask yourself if the hunting and fishing is better now then 10 years ago?No, it's not yet there are 100's of shiny new green 3/4 pickups loaded to the gills driving all over the state. Want things to get better? Cut about 50% of the WYGFD workforce and make the Director be an elected position. Nesvik sucks more then even that Arizona migrant who was a phoenix golfing buddy of the previous Governor

I totally disagree with this. The "redshirts' I've met were stand up guys, not skulking anywhere. One visited my camp and shared an elk stew lunch with us. He gave us some ideas of where to look for bucks, checked all our stuff, and wished us good luck. Sounds like you might have had a bad encounter?

I'd say hard working, low paid game wardens and other field staff are FAR from the crux of any problem. That's just my opinion as a NR outsider who doesn't matter.------SS

 

[jm77]

It was far from a secret.......

No sh!t?

Yeah, @mulecreek that one went right over his head.