Poll 2 (Nonresident Pref/Bonus Pts)

J

jims

Long Time Member
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3,818
I hate to hi-jack the earlier poll but thought I would start a new poll of my own. As NM tags continue to become increasingly tough to draw it seems fair that applicants that continue to apply for tags should have a little better chance of drawing than someone just starting out.

Many NM residents appear to appose having a pref/bonus pt system; however, I wonder if the same is true about NM nonresidents? Wyoming currently offers nonres a pref pt system while Wyo residents have a standard draw system. This post isn't aimed at focusing on which draw system is best but whether NM res/nonres are interested in a new draw system. Hopefully this post will gain interest!

Please list whether you are a NM resident or Nonresident and whether you are for or against a bonus/pref pt system. Thanks!

Nonresident
yes!
 
Resident
No to pref pt system for residents.

I'm not too thrilled about the prospect of pref pt system for non-res either, as the current system would still allow my non-res family and friends to be included on the same application as me...not that we've done yet, but hopefully someday...
 
Non-resident
NO Points!
New Mexico is already the biggest poacher state I have ever been to, this will only make things worse.
 
This is always a fun one.

I dont really care to much one way or the other.

What we all have to keep in mind is there are so many tags and so many hunters.

Example

unit X 50 tags 1000 people apply There will be 950 that do not get to hunt it.

End of story. No matter what system you come up with that does not change.

What does change is that if it is a good unit that 1000 people goes up every year.

If G&F decides to give more tags it is less of a good unit to hunt and if they get way out of control the unit gets overhunted and its not a quality tag no more.

A preference point system does allow everyone an opportunity at some time to hunt it, but, in a unit like this nobody gets to hunt it every year unless they pony up for a landowner tag if they are even available.

Another thing that I dont understand is when people get concerned about others not showing up to hunt a tag. To me that is the best thing that could happen. That takes one less weapon out of the field and if i ever do draw there makes for a better hunt.

Thats my opinion, I could be wrong. :)
 
NR, no points

typical scenario for a GOOD unit in a state w/ Pref points:

2008, unit X, 50 tags available
0 points, 1000 apps, 1:20 chance

2009,
1 point, 950 apps (19 years to draw)
0 points 1200 apps (43 years to draw)

2010,
2 points, 900 apps (18 years)
1 point, 1200 apps (42 years)
0 points, 1400 apps (70 years)

The draw years are assuming all tags go to point holders which is not the case.
You MUST be in the top 1 or 2 point pools in a pref point state or you're waiting for lightning to strike.
 
NR--NO to Points. At least I have a chance in NM to draw a premium tag. In many states since I don't have max points I will never draw before I die.

Phantom Hunter
 
Wapiti,
Are you saying that you'll have:
1000 total applicants in 2008
2150 total applicants in 2009
3500 total applicants in 2010?
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-09 AT 10:55AM (MST)[p]yes

hmmm, seems like a lot doesn't it?

I guess i could have taken the time to use unit 16D archery or rifle numbers for a realistic approach. Or maybe use Oregon data since I have like 15 years of draw stats.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-09 AT 11:52AM (MST)[p]I know what you mean Bob.
There are like 25 tags for 16D NON-RES Archery, and if there are the same 1000 apps -25 drawn each year with max points ....do the math 1000/25 = 40 years...25 of those apps could apply for 39 years without a chance!
 
resident and yes to a bonus point system, it works. not all tags go to top point holders only a certain percent and it goes down the scale. i know a guy in utah that drew a premium limited entry early bull tag with no points, 0. then drew a pauns limited deer tag the next year with no points,0. i'm from az and had 7 bull tags in 12 years and good tags at that. the system works. not every state has a good system but that doesn't mean we need to base one off of theirs. i for one like the fact that i get a slightly better chance at drawing a good tag than the guy who had it the year before.
 
i also remember when everyone was upset about going to a draw system and that has been great. not only do i feel alot safer out there now but the deer quantity and quality has gone up tremendously. these things do work you just have to give them a chance.
 
NR-NO POINTS;
But YES to UTAH RESidents only; UTAH screwed the rest of us. And yet they get on here and complain when the other states cut their chances. Hipocritical don't you think?
 
What are you talking about Badger????

I am a Utard and frequent the NM Forum, how did I screw you? Also, I have never complained about NM or any other state I can think of. If I dont like the rules I dont apply. Plain and simple. I like the NM forum, but your attitude is not representative of the good folks I chat with on here. What's up?

I say no to points, but if they want to do it, go for it. I just play like most everyone else according to whatever your state wants me to do.
 
I have only met one guy from UT hunting here in NM and he and his father were certainly nice enough. I tried to help them and they got a small 6x6 in the area I sent them during ML season 2 years ago.
They offered to help me if I ever drew Dutton or Monroe. When I finally do, I hope I can find those guys.

I also dont know the problem with UT hunters in NM. I think there are very few. Anytime you start relating the type of person to what state they come from, you got a losing argument.
 
NR
Absolutely no to preference points!
Yes to bonus points. With BP's the odds are weighted to those who stick with it but everyone still has a chance.

As an Arizonan I echo the sentiments on the state of Utah. I prefer not to attack the individuals but rather the institution. With several years of draw stats from both states it's easy to see what they are doing to NR's. Utah residents pull a bunch of quality tags in AZ each year but they seem to think we should attend their "Expo" if we want to obtain one of their quality tags. What a joke! They are the most restrictive state for quality tags drawn by NR's.
 
Oh, I get it now.

Just to be clear, dig back thru the archives and you will find I defended the NR against Expo tags. I said something to the effect I did not like taking away from the NR and making them attend. I said we are all a NR somewhere, so we had to be fair. I let the orgs know I personally disagreed.

NMP you can find me.
 
Resident- Even though I've never drawn an antelope tag here in NM, and I'll probably never draw one, some of the replies I've read have made me look at NM's system differently. 2 months ago I would have wanted a point system, but not any more.
 
Resident
No on the Points. Plus 1 on the Badgers statement. I gave up my points in Utah when they deleted a lot of areas and implemented the money game on NonResidents.
As a matter of fact, Plus 1,000,000 on that statement for Utah.
Stay out of NewMexico and we'll stay out of your point,money game.
 
Holy smokes, I am somewhat amazed at the response so far at this post. I would have thought that nonres would have been all for a bonus/pref pt system.

I'm not sure if many of the guys that are apposed to bonus pts actually understand the bonus pt draw system?

I can understand how a system similar to Colo where only applicants with highest pts draw tags would be unfavorable but a system similar to NV seems mighty appealing. In NV applicants that apply the longest have a better chance to draw and hunters applying for the very first year still have a chance to draw tags. In fact, each year applicants get a bonus pt their pts are cubed in NV. NV also charges a license and other fees to apply which keeps a lot of guys from applying that aren't serious.

I really didn't want to get in a shouting match in regard to which draw system might be the best but I am somewhat amazed at the responses so far apposed to a bonus/pref pt system.

I have been very frustrated trying to draw 1 elk tag in NM in 20+ years while others have drawn multiple tags! With the number of applicants continuing to increase each year it aint going to get any easier! I'm glad NM is considering charging the license fee to apply and hopefully they will take this to the next step by allowing nonres to start a bonus pt system!
 
We understand how bonus points work. Some of us don't like them anymore than pref points. Same animal, different stripes.

Regardless of the system, you only are in the draw with one number If I remember correctly (excepting maybe NV, I don't follow their system).

In AZ with 10 bonus points you get 11 random numbers. They take your lowest number and assign it to you for the draw. They then "draw" a random number and fill tags going "up" from this number. If your number is lower than the draw number you have zero chance at a tag. Yes, you had 11 chances to get a number just above the draw number which is better than the guy with only one. This is the difference in a bonus point vs a preference point system.
Either way, if you're not in the max point pool you still have a chance at one of the at large pool tags. Until you get in the max point pool, you're just one of the many after one of the few.

In NM you're all in the at large pool and in addition, you get 3 chances at a tag. Better than a pref point system and as good as a bonus point system w/ 2 points.
 
jims,

I say no, but I do see the advantages of a point system. There are also big disadvantages. If NM wanted a point system I would agree that Nevada has the best system out there.

As a NR I think it is up to the residents to decide.
 
what? sorry wapiti thats not even close to how az does it. first you do get assigned numbers, one for every point you carry, then they start drawing numbers. they then check your first two hunt choices, if theres a permit availible you are issued that permit, if none are left for your first two choices your numbers go over to a seperate file. they go through this process until every number has been checked. after thats done they repeat that process looking at everyones 3rd 4th and 5th choices. they check every number again issuing the remaining permits as they come up. so in az if you have 10 bonus points, thats like having 50 compared to the 3 you say you get here!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-06-09 AT 08:18PM (MST)[p]I am in WY/UT/AZ/CO/and NV...Each has a little different deal that I half way understand. What I do know is this.

Say you vote in a points system, guess who will set the rules? NOT US! We will not get a say in the type of system we want, NMG&F will set it up!

Take a look at the every other year draw with the Q/HD hunts!
We didn't have a say! Neither do the residents so far!

I also don't like the idea of a state changing the rules half way through the game! You can bet your ass this will happen to!

The ones who may really benifit from points is residents. Most odds are 5 times better for resident versus Non. But again, who will set the points sytem up?

Better off leaving well enough alone IMO
Not arguing with anyone hear, just thinking out loud.
Odds should be twice to the good with up front fees, I hope!
 
IT IS WHAT IT IS!!!! I'm also in the Nv, Ore, Co, Wy, Ut (not Az) game. I only apply in NM and ID when I don't have a really good chance of drawing a quality hunt or two. If they went to a point system, they'd get more of my $$$s as I'd have to apply to keep up. BUT since it's the way it is, I apply for Lottery Hunts when I know I'm getting a tag or two, and better draw odds when I don't.

Just let me know what the rules are, I'm simple that way.

And I have better things to do then get fired up about proposed rule changes.
 
>what? sorry wapiti thats not even
>close to how az does
>it. first you do get
>assigned numbers, one for every
>point you carry, then they
>start drawing numbers. they then
>check your first two hunt
>choices, if theres a permit
>availible you are issued that
>permit, if none are left
>for your first two choices
>your numbers go over to
>a seperate file. they go
>through this process until every
>number has been checked. after
>thats done they repeat that
>process looking at everyones 3rd
>4th and 5th choices. they
>check every number again issuing
>the remaining permits as they
>come up. so in az
>if you have 10 bonus
>points, thats like having 50
>compared to the 3 you
>say you get here!

They only use one number for each pass. The LOWEST number.

"There are 3 phases to the Big Game Drawing ? the Bonus Point Pass, the First-Second Choice Pass, and the Third-Fourth-Fifth Choice Pass. Before each of the three passes in the drawing, each application is processed through a random number generator program. One random number for the application plus an additional random number for each group bonus point (which includes the Hunter Education and Loyalty bonus points) is generated for that application. === The lowest random number generated for an application is used in the drawing process ===. An application receives a new random number for each Pass of the Big Game Draw."
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-06-09 AT 10:37PM (MST)[p]NR-NO! Keep it the way it is.

Hiker

Proverbs 3:5-6
 

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