Preference point

[mushrat]

So if I put in first choice muzzy tag, dont draw it but i do get my second choice rifle tag then choose to return the second choice tag do i still get a preference point or do I lose it when I return the tag

 

[HiMtnHntr]

Second choices don’t use preference points.

 

[callsalot]

The way I understand it you get a preference point period if you don't draw your first choice. Maybe someone can confirm.

 

[montezumarchery]

So if I put in first choice muzzy tag, dont draw it but i do get my second choice rifle tag then choose to return the second choice tag do i still get a preference point or do I lose it when I return the tag

Why would you put in for that second choice rifle tag if you are planning on returning it anyway?

But yes, you could turn the second choice tag without affecting your points.

 

[mushrat]

To have the same app for a group app

 

[TKMulePacker]

Colorado needs to do away with this tag return stuff. because of this.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Colorado needs to do away with this tag return stuff. because of this.

YUP. Been saying it for years. People are playing the system and then people wonder why point creep is through the freaking roof...

 

[nripepi]

YUP. Been saying it for years. People are playing the system and then people wonder why point creep is through the freaking roof...

I don't think what the OP is doing affects point creep as it is a 2nd choice tag if he draws it and returns it or someone draws it and hunts it. It just is what it is. Now for those returning first choice tags, that is a separate discussion.

 

[Mallardsx2]

I don't think what the OP is doing affects point creep as it is a 2nd choice tag if he draws it and returns it or someone draws it and hunts it. It just is what it is. Now for those returning first choice tags, that is a separate discussion.

I agree with you.

 

[TKMulePacker]

I dont care if it affects point creep or not. When people use colorado as a backup plan with 95% intentions of returning a tag, they are potentially taking that tag away from someone else who may have really enjoyed their time in the woods with that tag. Instead it gets returned in thrown into the sh!tshow that is the reissue process.

 

[nripepi]

I dont care if it affects point creep or not. When people use colorado as a backup plan with 95% intentions of returning a tag, they are potentially taking that tag away from someone else who may have really enjoyed their time in the woods with that tag. Instead it gets returned in thrown into the sh!tshow that is the reissue process.

That is a separate issue and can be said about many tags that are returned. I doubt this specific situation with one in a party not wanting a 2nd choice tag while others do happens that often to be a big concern and there currently is not a good option to stop it unless you halt all returns or make people use points for 2nd choices.

 

[SDBugler]

I dont care if it affects point creep or not. When people use colorado as a backup plan with 95% intentions of returning a tag, they are potentially taking that tag away from someone else who may have really enjoyed their time in the woods with that tag. Instead it gets returned in thrown into the sh!tshow that is the reissue process.

I totally agree!!!
A returned tag goes into the ridiculous reissue process. Many of these hard to draw tags go to a youth or someone that has no points invested. I believe in some states they reach out to the next person in line that "should have" drawn the tag based on points and the original draw process. I wish CO would at least require you to have the min # of point that it took to originally draw the tag and then use them.

Years ago my son was trying to draw a specific unit with double digit points. He was always either not draw in the min point pool or was one point behind for several consecutive years. Every year one or two of the tags would get returned and he had no better chance to get them than any other person.

 

[nripepi]

I totally agree!!!
A returned tag goes into the ridiculous reissue process. Many of these hard to draw tags go to a youth or someone that has no points invested. I believe in some states they reach out to the next person in line that "should have" drawn the tag based on points and the original draw process. I wish CO would at least require you to have the min # of point that it took to originally draw the tag and then use them.

Years ago my son was trying to draw a specific unit with double digit points. He was always either not draw in the min point pool or was one point behind for several consecutive years. Every year one or two of the tags would get returned and he had no better chance to get them than any other person.

That is a separate issue, the issue at hand is a 2nd choice tag that anyone in the world could draw with 0 points. Apples and oranges.

 

[Mallardsx2]

That is a separate issue, the issue at hand is a 2nd choice tag that anyone in the world could draw with 0 points. Apples and oranges.

Meh, let them man rant. For once its someone else bitching about that issue instead of me. lol

But, your right....for now.

 

[Bluehair]

I totally agree!!!
A returned tag goes into the ridiculous reissue process. Many of these hard to draw tags go to a youth or someone that has no points invested. I believe in some states they reach out to the next person in line that "should have" drawn the tag based on points and the original draw process. I wish CO would at least require you to have the min # of point that it took to originally draw the tag and then use them.

Years ago my son was trying to draw a specific unit with double digit points. He was always either not draw in the min point pool or was one point behind for several consecutive years. Every year one or two of the tags would get returned and he had no better chance to get them than any other person.

Yes, and it even happened with a sheep tag.

 

[nripepi]

Yes, and it even happened with a sheep tag.

That was illegal the way I read the rules unless there is some loophole on the season already started.

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

It wasn't illegal the next five were contacted and all turned it down

 

[nripepi]

It wasn't illegal the next five were contacted and all turned it down

I definitely am not in the know so will not call you out on that statement but why the heck would each of the five turn down that tag? There are no points for desert sheep so it is more than once in a lifetime, they will likely never draw the tag in the future, the season was open for a month, the cost was $345, the tag on the open market likely sells for how much?

 

[Thill]

There has to be a good story behind that tag - I am with you, no way anyone should have turned that tag down when it was offered.

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

I definitely am not in the know so will not call you out on that statement but why the heck would each of the five turn down that tag? There are no points for desert sheep so it is more than once in a lifetime, they will likely never draw the tag in the future, the season was open for a month, the cost was $345, the tag on the open market likely sells for how much?

Desert tags are once in a lifetime

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

Number 4 under license requirements

 

[Bluehair]

That was illegal the way I read the rules unless there is some loophole on the season already started.

It may be legal, but that doesn’t mean it’s not bullshit If there’s any silver lining, it seems to have gone to someone who was at least actively applying for dbs.

But next time one comes up on the list I’m definitely calling orion to get his magic algorithm working for me. I’m a believer.

 

[nripepi]

Desert tags are once in a lifetime

So? The odds are currently 0.4% and likely would get worse over time. It would take over 100 years to have a 50% chance to draw a tag at 0.4%. Can these 5 people all not do math?

 

[nripepi]

Number 4 under license requirements

View attachment 138292

So they could have spent $350 to hunt a 50K sheep tag and if they didn't get a sheep could apply again the next year for the same tag with the same odds and no retribution? It makes it even crazier they turned down the tag then. It is once in a lifetime if you harvest!!!

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

It's once in a lifetime harvest or not same as moose

 

[SDBugler]

There has to be a good story behind that tag - I am with you, no way anyone should have turned that tag down when it was offered.

Maybe they had already made other commitments that they couldn't back out of?

 

[Gadjet]

It wasn't illegal the next five were contacted and all turned it down

This still blows my mind.

 

[elkhuntr]

I dont think it went to the next 5 guys in line because there are no points for desert sheep. So with that they wouldnt of known who the next 5 guys were is how I understood it. There is no way 5 guys turned that tag down! I know the guy that got it on the reissue list and killed a big ram with his bow!!!!

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

They claim they know because they keep track of the random number assignment. Same way they know the order of all the tags drawn. The same way they know which order to call all the same point holders for a a returned elk tag.

 

[MrDoe]

It's once in a lifetime harvest or not same as moose

Wrong

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

Statistically you will never draw either one of those tags let alone two in a lifetime. I don't think a desert tag has never not been filled so it is basically once in a lifetime because nobody is eating that tag. Also, I'm not aware of any bull moose tags that have gone unfilled

 

[MrDoe]

Statistically you will never draw either one of those tags let alone two in a lifetime. I don't think a desert tag has never not been filled so it is basically once in a lifetime because nobody is eating that tag. Also, I'm not aware of any bull moose tags that have gone unfilled

You’re still wrong as usual

 

[MrDoe]

Statistically you will never draw either one of those tags let alone two in a lifetime. I don't think a desert tag has never not been filled so it is basically once in a lifetime because nobody is eating that tag. Also, I'm not aware of any bull moose tags that have gone unfilled

Colorado Parks and Wildlife

Colorado Parks and Wildlife is a nationally recognized leader in conservation, outdoor recreation and wildlife management. The agency manages 42 state parks, all of Colorado's wildlife, more than 300 state wildlife areas and a host of recreational programs. CPW issues hunting and fishing...

cpw.state.co.us

Let me know if you need me to teach you how to read these.

 

[MrDoe]

Colorado Parks and Wildlife

Colorado Parks and Wildlife is a nationally recognized leader in conservation, outdoor recreation and wildlife management. The agency manages 42 state parks, all of Colorado's wildlife, more than 300 state wildlife areas and a host of recreational programs. CPW issues hunting and fishing...

cpw.state.co.us

Let me know if you need me to teach you how to read these.

Here’s the link for moose. Again if you need someone to teach you how to read these hit me up.

Colorado Parks and Wildlife

Colorado Parks and Wildlife is a nationally recognized leader in conservation, outdoor recreation and wildlife management. The agency manages 42 state parks, all of Colorado's wildlife, more than 300 state wildlife areas and a host of recreational programs. CPW issues hunting and fishing...

cpw.state.co.us

 

[nripepi]

Maybe they had already made other commitments that they couldn't back out of?

5 people for a month who all were residents? They just messed up and didn't offer it to the next five in line because it didn't take points is my guess and didn't read the rules closely. Could be wrong but I am doubtful 5 turned it down.

 

[Thill]

Statistically you will never draw either one of those tags let alone two in a lifetime. I don't think a desert tag has never not been filled so it is basically once in a lifetime because nobody is eating that tag. Also, I'm not aware of any bull moose tags that have gone unfilled

Unfortunately I had a buddy that did not fill his bull tag near hot sulfur the year after the big fire. Only had a chance at a small bull. So it does happen, but again I can’t believe the next desert ram guys all turned down that tag.

 

[oldmossback]

YUP. Been saying it for years. People are playing the system and then people wonder why point creep is through the freaking roof...

second choice tags do not effect points creep

 

[Mallardsx2]

second choice tags do not effect points creep

I am aware of that.

However, point creep is through the roof because people are turning in tags and because points are not taken for A-list tags. Both of which will hopefully see some form of change going forward.

Not sure if they decided to take points on choices 1-4 or just take points on choice 1 only or what the official recommendation to the commissioners will be. The Draw process working group was all over the place in their meeting....

 

[oldmossback]

I totally agree!!!
A returned tag goes into the ridiculous reissue process. Many of these hard to draw tags go to a youth or someone that has no points invested. I believe in some states they reach out to the next person in line that "should have" drawn the tag based on points and the original draw process. I wish CO would at least require you to have the min # of point that it took to originally draw the tag and then use them.

Years ago my son was trying to draw a specific unit with double digit points. He was always either not draw in the min point pool or was one point behind for several consecutive years. Every year one or two of the tags would get returned and he had no better chance to get them than any other person.

Colorado does reach out to the next tag holder in line on units that require more than 5 points. If no one wants it, then it hits the leftover list. I have been contacted 3 times and asked if I want the tag

 

[oldmossback]

I totally agree!!!
A returned tag goes into the ridiculous reissue process. Many of these hard to draw tags go to a youth or someone that has no points invested. I believe in some states they reach out to the next person in line that "should have" drawn the tag based on points and the original draw process. I wish CO would at least require you to have the min # of point that it took to originally draw the tag and then use them.

Years ago my son was trying to draw a specific unit with double digit points. He was always either not draw in the min point pool or was one point behind for several consecutive years. Every year one or two of the tags would get returned and he had no better chance to get them than any other person.

So if your son saved all those points and actually got the tag and some life changing event happened 30 days before season and he could not go, you think he should lose all his points???

 

[SDBugler]

Colorado does reach out to the next tag holder in line on units that require more than 5 points. If no one wants it, then it hits the leftover list. I have been contacted 3 times and asked if I want the tag

I know at least twice there was a tag available on the reissue list. One year he was at the min point needed to draw as a NR and the other year he was one less than min but never received a call (and these were with 10+ points). Granted he was a NR and they may have been ressy tags that were returned (so likely called the next 5 on the ressy side).

My point of my post is that ANYONE even someone with 0 points could then acquire that tag even though others have been putting in their time and money over the years actually applying and trying to draw that tag.

Since the first couple years of the new system I have quit looking at the reissue list because as a NR it is almost impossible to get a tag over the phone if you can't be waiting on the doorstep of a license agent.

 

[SDBugler]

So if your son saved all those points and actually got the tag and some life changing event happened 30 days before season and he could not go, you think he should lose all his points???

I'm not complaining about returning the tag and keeping points. My comment was related to how they reissue that tag and how a tag worth 10+ points can go to someone with 0 points even though there are a lot of guys with significant number of points that tried to draw that tag and didn't.

 

[Mallardsx2]

So if your son saved all those points and actually got the tag and some life changing event happened 30 days before season and he could not go, you think he should lose all his points???

I think they/he should. Sorry not sorry.

In order for the system to work, people need to lose their points when they get a tag. You lose your place in line. It’s fair and a risk everyone should know and accept.

 

[Crampy]

Statistically you will never draw either one of those tags let alone two in a lifetime.

Exactly.

No way CPW legitimately contacted 5 guys and they all turned down that OIL desert ram tag that went to reissue. Highly unlikely that they could find five people that stupid - all in a row.

CPW probably had an intern call 5 guys, two hours apart.

The guys who apply desert, do so because they know it is a no-points system. They know the long odds and know it is OIL. And at those odds, they know they need to take the tag last minute, even if they can only hunt it one weekend.

 

[oldmossback]

I'm not complaining about returning the tag and keeping points. My comment was related to how they reissue that tag and how a tag worth 10+ points can go to someone with 0 points even though there are a lot of guys with significant number of points that tried to draw that tag and didn't.

They call the next 5 inline for any 5+ point tag and if they all refuse it goes to the list. By the time all that happens it is usually close to or into the season already at which time I sure wouldn't want to burn my points with no time to prepare

 

[oldmossback]

I think they/he should. Sorry not sorry.

In order for the system to work, people need to lose their points when they get a tag. You lose your place in line. It’s fair and a risk everyone should know and accept.

Well, I guess we can all agree to disagree. I think the ability to return a tag should be a little more strict but not SOL. It is easy for some to say at this stage but when life happens that decision would suck.

 

[oldmossback]

I know at least twice there was a tag available on the reissue list. One year he was at the min point needed to draw as a NR and the other year he was one less than min but never received a call (and these were with 10+ points). Granted he was a NR and they may have been ressy tags that were returned (so likely called the next 5 on the ressy side).

My point of my post is that ANYONE even someone with 0 points could then acquire that tag even though others have been putting in their time and money over the years actually applying and trying to draw that tag.

Since the first couple years of the new system I have quit looking at the reissue list because as a NR it is almost impossible to get a tag over the phone if you can't be waiting on the doorstep of a license agent.

Try getting them online? I agree the new system does suck! but other than calling the next 5 guys in line what would be a solution? It would have to be a solution that would generate $$ like a raffle or auction or CPW would not go for it I am sure. Id be fine with a weekly redraw for reissue tags....

 

[Gadjet]

Try getting them online? I agree the new system does suck! but other than calling the next 5 guys in line what would be a solution? It would have to be a solution that would generate $$ like a raffle or auction or CPW would not go for it I am sure. Id be fine with a weekly redraw for reissue tags....

I think the CPW is making this more complicated ( and unfair in a lot of cases) than it should be. In my opinion the CPW should simply do a redraw with only the people that actually applied for the tag that's been turned in.

 

[Crampy]

at which time I sure wouldn't want to burn my points with no time to prepare

desert BHS don't have points.

No way 5 idiots in a row refused that tag. Anyone with half a clue understands there is no way they would ever get offered that tag again.

 

[WesternSky]

desert BHS don't have points.

No way 5 idiots in a row refused that tag. Anyone with half a clue understands there is no way they would ever get offered that tag again.

Dont take it out of context. He was replying to a comment about a hunt that would require points like deer/elk.

On the dbh, a lot of people put in because they feel like they should but dont really have a strong desire to hunt them. With the limited time for serious hunter friends to talk them into it, they turn down the tag. At least i hope that is what happened…

 

[oldmossback]

I think the CPW is making this more complicated ( and unfair in a lot of cases) than it should be. In my opinion the CPW should simply do a redraw with only the people that actually applied for the tag that's been turned in.

I would be fine with that as well as long as there was time remaining to scout / prepare

 

[TKMulePacker]

Maybe for tags that take 15+ points (or 10+,) that get returned, if they cant find someone to take the tag in the first 5 contacted, they just remove the tag from the pool and no one gets it. That would certainly remove any questioning, whining and complaining in regards to that issue. This circumstance probably occurs less than 20 times a year with the very high end tags so who cares about lost revenue. Would also screw with the dudes that make $$ from the reissue captcha (or whatever thats called, dont care) programs. Or better yet, CPW should hold an online auction for said premier tags nobody wants, just do anything besides throw them into the fray of the reissue process.

 

[Mallardsx2]

This circumstance probably occurs less than 20 times a year with the very high end tags so who cares about lost revenue.

You obviously didn't look at the same reissue list that I did. lol

 

[JakeH]

. Or better yet, CPW should hold an online auction for said premier tags nobody wants, just do anything besides throw them into the fray of the reissue process.

This blows me away, you would rather give a rich guy even more opportunity for those tags then an average Joe that is dedicated enough to put the time in to trying for the tags.

I've personally pulled 2 very good tags off the re-issue list (20+ points, and 10+ points) that I will likely will never have the opportunity to hunt again and am very grateful for it.

I have also pulled numerous low points tags for myself or family as well.

Leave the re-issue list alone, or better yet put it back into the completely random uploads like they started with, but I would rather have what we got then nothing at all.

 

[sb2017]

I don't think what the OP is doing affects point creep as it is a 2nd choice tag if he draws it and returns it or someone draws it and hunts it. It just is what it is. Now for those returning first choice tags, that is a separate discussion.

It takes the tag out of the hands of someone who genuinely wanted it and gives it a one way ticket to the reissue goat rodeo.