Ram vs Buck vs Bull

[muleninja]

What is your opinion? 30in (Barbary) Ram equivalent to 200in Buck or 400in Bull. With all the 30" rams hitting the ground I would like to get some perspective. It seems it may just be an outstanding year for Barbary.

 

[5yearcoueshunter]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-14 AT 09:40AM (MST)[p]Agreed, seems like a heck of a year for big Rams!

Personally, I've never taken or even seen any of the 3 trophy class animals you mentioned so definitely hard for me to say how they compare. However from everything I've read about horned animals, it takes a lot less nutrition or genetics to grow horns vs antlers. Seems to me, a 30 in Barbary isn't super rare as long as he has time to become completely mature. I'm guessing 7+ years.
For bucks and bulls however, they need age, nutrition and genetics to reach that class your talking about. There are some areas that will never have a 400 in bull or 200 in buck. And then there are some areas that have the potential, but have bad growing years or are over-hunted.
Could be totally wrong. Would love to hear from more experienced people on this.

Travis

 

[RabidRattleSnake1]

To get a 30" ram you have to be a really good hunter. To get a big buck or bull you have to be a really good hunter, in really good habitat with really good genetics. Not exactly the same deal between the three.

 

[muleninja]

> To get a 30" ram
>you have to be a
>really good hunter. To get
>a big buck or bull
>you have to be a
>really good hunter, in really
>good habitat with really good
>genetics. Not exactly the same
>deal between the three.

That makes sense. How big a ram would compare to a 200" buck or 400" bull in your opinion, all things considered. Most articles I have read state that a 30" public land ram is considered exceptional. 200" seems to be the bar for bucks and about 400" for bulls. Just wondering if that is a fair comparison.

 

[nmarchr]

I think a 400" bull and a 200" buck are more rare here in NM than a 30" ram. I have hunted sheep twice and killed a 25" ram and a 33" ram. Lucky??? Yes, did I bust ass hunting sheep??? Yes! I have hunted deer and elk for over 25 years here in NM and have not killed a 400" bull or 200" buck. Maybe one day, but if I had to bet, I would bet that I kill another 30" ram before I take a 200" deer or 400" bull.

 

[mozey]

Agree with nmarchr. I would love to kill a 30" ram (have yet to do it). I've seen about half dozen 30-inchers over the last decade, but based on the ratio of 30" rams to overall numbers of sheep that I've seen, I think you would need to be closer to the 34" or 35" range to be equivalent to a 200" buck or a 400" bull (maybe even bigger). I've only seen one (confirmed) and maybe one other (unconfirmed) in that range. Just my opinion (probably tainted by my uberjealousness of all the nice rams taken this year...)

 

[muleninja]

I tend to agree with both previous posts. On the other hand how many times have you hunted units that have "potential" to produce 200" bucks or 400" bulls? Maybe a handful in 25 years. Also, I haven't had luck finding a bunch of sheep in the 4 years Ive hunted them, that's hunting about 10 days each year. I guess it is all perspective. The lack of sheep that I see when I hunt is maybe why I think a 30" ram is more on par with a 200" buck.

 

[BloodhoundBrother]

As I stated in my topic that no one commented on, count how many 30" bucks or 200" inch bucks were posted on this nm forum this year compared to 30" rams. Also I bet with the success rate from this year there will be more tags allocated for barbarys within the next two new hunting seasons. Now that sheep have been managed for 5 years, seems like the rate of success and quality have gone through the roof. I wish there was a similar correlation with mule deer

 

[NMPaul]

200" bucks and 400" bulls are very very rare especially on public land.

170"/340" may be similar on public. Does seem to be some good sheep showing up this year.

 

[muleninja]

Why do people covet sheep info so much? At least based on what I have read here on MM, sheep info is the last thing someone would give out. Seems like sheep are much easier to find than people make it out to be.

 

[dang302]

I was thinking exactly what Paul said. +1 Paul!

Muleninja: Sounds like you have put a lot of time in looking for sheep and haven't found them yet (that should answer your qestion right there). When you finally do figure out how to find them, are you going to come on here and tell us all where they are? Then, of course, finding a big one is a different story all together. There is a reason many folks are happy to shoot ewes.

-I have fought tougher men, but I really can't remember when-

 

[muleninja]

>I was thinking exactly what Paul
>said. +1 Paul!
>
>Muleninja: Sounds like you have
>put a lot of time
>in looking for sheep and
>haven't found them yet (that
>should answer your qestion right
>there). When you finally
>do figure out how to
>find them, are you going
>to come on here and
>tell us all where they
>are? Then, of course,
>finding a big one is
>a different story all together.
> There is a reason
>many folks are happy to
>shoot ewes.
>
>-I have fought tougher men, but
>I really can't remember when-
>
I guess for me, a 170" buck or 340" bull seems more feasible than a 30" ram. I guess I need to get more boot leather on the ground down south to find these elusive sheep.

 

[heffe]

Public land Barbary sheep and private land Barbary sheep are two different things altogether.

 

[5yearcoueshunter]

>Public land Barbary sheep and private
>land Barbary sheep are two
>different things altogether.

Agreed!
The same could be said about some private land muley and elk hunts too though. I think this discussion would be public land comparisons only.

 

[dmaxarchr]

I agree with not bein able to compare public with private. I grew up on a ranch in unit 46. There is no public land whatsoever there. The size of bulls, bucks, bears, antelope, and number of turkey's there is unreal on some of these ranches. I think some ranchers don't even know what they've got themselves. Public land is over hunted hands down. I think private land animals are definitely bigger but private is affected by too many lions and predators and can't forget about all the poaching that goes on.

 

[NMdoghunter]

I think most rams, if given time, will make it to 30". That is why you see way more hit the dirt. Most bucks in NM will never break 175" in their prime, even if allowed to die of old age. I am not as familiar with elk, but would guess that a 400" bull in NM is similar to a 200" mule deer, their has to be a perfect storm of genes and habitat, and the animal has to be allowed to reach its prime: extremely rare. I would put a 33-34" sheep in the same category as a 200" buck or 400" bull.