nvnative79
Active Member
- Messages
- 479
Sandoval rehires fired Nevada wildlife director
- Thread starter nvnative79
- Start date
Thanks NVB
Here is a copy of another email I received today.
Subject: RalstonFlash--In first substantive act as governor, Sandoval reinstates Wildlife boss canned by Gibbons
Gov. Brian Sandoval today appointed Ken Mayer as acting director of the Wildlife Department. Mayer had been summarily fired after the election by ex-Gov. (love how that sounds) Jim Gibbons after some commission members more rabid than any animal they sanctioned slaughtering wanted him out. Mayer is widely respected.
Alas, the commission still has a say in the permanent replacement. But Sandoval has a say in who stays on the commission.....
It's good to be the governor.
Here is a copy of another email I received today.
Subject: RalstonFlash--In first substantive act as governor, Sandoval reinstates Wildlife boss canned by Gibbons
Gov. Brian Sandoval today appointed Ken Mayer as acting director of the Wildlife Department. Mayer had been summarily fired after the election by ex-Gov. (love how that sounds) Jim Gibbons after some commission members more rabid than any animal they sanctioned slaughtering wanted him out. Mayer is widely respected.
Alas, the commission still has a say in the permanent replacement. But Sandoval has a say in who stays on the commission.....
It's good to be the governor.
O
onthewall
Guest
Great! Back to the californication of Nevada. Can you say continued mule deer decline?
S
sandsavage
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Jan-04-11 AT 04:26PM (MST)[p]
I personally feel he was doing a great job using science and biologists to manage the wildlife of Nevada.
i guess what i like best about him is his stand against the current comission and their single species approach to game management.
I personally feel he was doing a great job using science and biologists to manage the wildlife of Nevada.
i guess what i like best about him is his stand against the current comission and their single species approach to game management.
NVBighorn
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 9,458
>Great! Back to the californication of
>Nevada. Can you say continued
>mule deer decline?
Well Lent, Raines, Laughlin and company have the answer to the deer problem. Use domestic livestock to graze the sh!t out of everything and the deer will bounce right back. I don't know, maybe the deer are there but they're hiding behind all the grass.
>Nevada. Can you say continued
>mule deer decline?
Well Lent, Raines, Laughlin and company have the answer to the deer problem. Use domestic livestock to graze the sh!t out of everything and the deer will bounce right back. I don't know, maybe the deer are there but they're hiding behind all the grass.
O
onthewall
Guest
Ot
So you are against ranching, I got that. Are you pro predator?
Laughlin has tried to do something for mule deer, using the almighty heritage fund to thin coyotes and lions strategically. Is that a bad thing? Tell yourself, what have you done for the mule deer herd?
So you are against ranching, I got that. Are you pro predator?
Laughlin has tried to do something for mule deer, using the almighty heritage fund to thin coyotes and lions strategically. Is that a bad thing? Tell yourself, what have you done for the mule deer herd?
O
onthewall
Guest
RE: Ot
Quiz for all you board bashers
1. What big game species is the most hunted in Nevada?
2. What big game species is the most cared about in Nevada?
3. What big game species has been put on the back burner?
4. What species should most of hunting revenue go too?
Think about it........Answer to come.
Quiz for all you board bashers
1. What big game species is the most hunted in Nevada?
2. What big game species is the most cared about in Nevada?
3. What big game species has been put on the back burner?
4. What species should most of hunting revenue go too?
Think about it........Answer to come.
NVBighorn
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 9,458
RE: Ot
I'm against ranching? You, my friend, have no idea what you are talking about. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada.
Have you read the wonderful Mule deer recovery plan that was authored by people who are NOT biologists and who completely ignored those who are?
I'm against ranching? You, my friend, have no idea what you are talking about. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada.
Have you read the wonderful Mule deer recovery plan that was authored by people who are NOT biologists and who completely ignored those who are?
RE: Ot
your funny onthewall, Ill bet this, given a choice most hunters in Nevada would take a bighorn sheep or bull elk tag over a buck deer tag, it wouldn't even be close. Most of us care about all people, not just a select few, and most of us enjoy all species of big game. There is a reason half of Nevadas land is now dominated by cheat grass, (hint) its not because of elk, antelope or native sheep. (answer will come soon)
your funny onthewall, Ill bet this, given a choice most hunters in Nevada would take a bighorn sheep or bull elk tag over a buck deer tag, it wouldn't even be close. Most of us care about all people, not just a select few, and most of us enjoy all species of big game. There is a reason half of Nevadas land is now dominated by cheat grass, (hint) its not because of elk, antelope or native sheep. (answer will come soon)
NVBighorn
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 9,458
RE: Ot
Ok Offthewall, I'll sort of play your game. Obviously you feel the answer is mule deer. I would tend to agree with all except number 3. Think about this. The biggest revenue generator for NDOW from and for big game is mule deer tag sales. If it was a simple matter of flipping a switch (like so many armchair biologists believe) to generate more deer, and thus more revenue, wouldn't you think NDOW would do it? If you could do some simple fix in your business or job that would allow you to easily make more money, wouldn't you do it? Don't you think if they could just make a change and double or triple their revenue and get everyone off their ass they would do it?
(answer to come)
Ok Offthewall, I'll sort of play your game. Obviously you feel the answer is mule deer. I would tend to agree with all except number 3. Think about this. The biggest revenue generator for NDOW from and for big game is mule deer tag sales. If it was a simple matter of flipping a switch (like so many armchair biologists believe) to generate more deer, and thus more revenue, wouldn't you think NDOW would do it? If you could do some simple fix in your business or job that would allow you to easily make more money, wouldn't you do it? Don't you think if they could just make a change and double or triple their revenue and get everyone off their ass they would do it?
(answer to come)
B
bearman
Guest
RE: Ot
LAST EDITED ON Jan-05-11 AT 10:29AM (MST)[p]This is to funny! Now we need to get the idiots removed from the Commission and the joke of a mule deer restoration committee. We need to get people that have a brain. We need to work on all wildlife. They have an agenda and its not mule deer its ranching. Lets be gone with the worst commission in the history of Nevada!!!!!
Paul you are 100% right. There are about ten people in the state that think this commission is right and one of them didn't get reelected because of it. I cant wait for the next commission meeting. Change is in the air. These guys should go back to their desk job in the city.
LAST EDITED ON Jan-05-11 AT 10:29AM (MST)[p]This is to funny! Now we need to get the idiots removed from the Commission and the joke of a mule deer restoration committee. We need to get people that have a brain. We need to work on all wildlife. They have an agenda and its not mule deer its ranching. Lets be gone with the worst commission in the history of Nevada!!!!!
Paul you are 100% right. There are about ten people in the state that think this commission is right and one of them didn't get reelected because of it. I cant wait for the next commission meeting. Change is in the air. These guys should go back to their desk job in the city.
B
bearman
Guest
RE: Ot
+1 amen
+1 amen
W
WhiskeyMan
Guest
"RE: Sandoval rehires fired Nevada wildlife director"
Just returned from my Washoe County antelope hunt along with a thorough review of the new NV Records book. I also talked to a few good hunters. Northern Washoe ain't the place anymore.
I've never seen such few and dink bucks anywhere. I can't believe it. Same from the Sheldon hunters. This area was one of the best in the west for 85" goats 25 years ago. Looks like G & F is selling tags to fund their agency during these days of drought, poor fawn recruitment, a few bad winters. Mostly yearlings and 2.5 year olds as herd bucks........one after the other.
The book shows few bucks from Washoe lately. Many more from untraditional counties in Nevada. The tide has turned.
The mulies in this 2010 book were laughable. A few whoppers.....and many 165" bucks filling the books. Ditto the antelope pictures and entries.
NV Dept of Wildlife is now simply selling tags to fund their agency and lowering their buck:doe management ratios accordingly. Employment of the agency employees comes first........the quality of deer and antelope that NV used to be known for is a clear second.
Somebody needs to be fired.......right now.
Just returned from my Washoe County antelope hunt along with a thorough review of the new NV Records book. I also talked to a few good hunters. Northern Washoe ain't the place anymore.
I've never seen such few and dink bucks anywhere. I can't believe it. Same from the Sheldon hunters. This area was one of the best in the west for 85" goats 25 years ago. Looks like G & F is selling tags to fund their agency during these days of drought, poor fawn recruitment, a few bad winters. Mostly yearlings and 2.5 year olds as herd bucks........one after the other.
The book shows few bucks from Washoe lately. Many more from untraditional counties in Nevada. The tide has turned.
The mulies in this 2010 book were laughable. A few whoppers.....and many 165" bucks filling the books. Ditto the antelope pictures and entries.
NV Dept of Wildlife is now simply selling tags to fund their agency and lowering their buck:doe management ratios accordingly. Employment of the agency employees comes first........the quality of deer and antelope that NV used to be known for is a clear second.
Somebody needs to be fired.......right now.
S
sandsavage
Guest
RE: "RE: Sandoval rehires fired Nevada wildlife director"
So wiskeyman, are you suggesting that the biologists and NDOW employees dont care about wildlife at all and they only manage the animals for a job? Have you not noticed a decline in deer herds all over the west? So does that mean that all western states are under the same management techniques? Wow Man!You must be friends with Scott Raine and his group of idiots.
So wiskeyman, are you suggesting that the biologists and NDOW employees dont care about wildlife at all and they only manage the animals for a job? Have you not noticed a decline in deer herds all over the west? So does that mean that all western states are under the same management techniques? Wow Man!You must be friends with Scott Raine and his group of idiots.
fullcurl74
Active Member
- Messages
- 368
RE: "RE: Sandoval rehires fired Nevada wildlife director"
>Just returned from my Washoe County
>antelope hunt...
It's no wonder you didn't see any good bucks. Antelope lost their horns quite some time ago.
>Just returned from my Washoe County
>antelope hunt...
It's no wonder you didn't see any good bucks. Antelope lost their horns quite some time ago.
In_the_Shadows
Active Member
- Messages
- 169
RE: "RE: Sandoval rehires fired Nevada wildlife director"
Looks like onthewall fell "off!" HAHAHAHA
Its lonely at the top.... just the way I like it.
Looks like onthewall fell "off!" HAHAHAHA
Its lonely at the top.... just the way I like it.
O
onthewall
Guest
RE: Ot
Get off the pipe piper. Yes, habitat is a big part of the equation and so are predators. And no, most people apply for deer tags. The reason for cheat grass is the B.L.M has a let it burn policy. They spent a lot more watching it burn than re-seeding.
Get off the pipe piper. Yes, habitat is a big part of the equation and so are predators. And no, most people apply for deer tags. The reason for cheat grass is the B.L.M has a let it burn policy. They spent a lot more watching it burn than re-seeding.
RE: Ot
"Ill bet this, given a choice most hunters in Nevada would take a bighorn sheep or bull elk tag over a buck deer tag, it wouldn't even be close."
I believe my economics professor would refer to this as scarcity. I believe you are partially correct with this point. However, for many hunters, who do not happen to live in a particular area inhabited by sheep or elk, the expense is not feasible. On the other hand, mule deer inhabit nearly every mountain range in the state. I agree that mule deer are struggling, but range conditions can't be blamed on grazing alone. An example that I think fits the bill perfectly is the fire between Harrison pass and the Ruby Marshes. This area was solid PJ forest and crucial deer habitat. I have yet to see and livestock capable of this type of devastation. I suppose the hundreds of thousands of acres of cheat grass in areas 6 & 7 are also from grazing. With these large islands of inhabitable land, the deer no longer have quality transitional areas to build up their fat reserves for winter. If grazing hurts anything, I believe it would be small springs and water sources.
As far as predator removal goes, I feel that routine flying for coyotes in winter range is imperative. With the popularity of predator calling at an all time high, coyotes have become smarter and wearier than ever. Flying the vast sagebrush flats is a very effective way to remove significant numbers of coyotes. As far as poisoning crows and magpies?.I haven't seen many studies done on this and don't have an opinion. However, I do know that I never want to see the sage grouse on the endangered species list as this could possibly shut down a lot of Nevada?s hunting opportunities.
Some of the sportsman?s groups who use private funding and volunteer work are imperative to Nevada?s wildlife in my opinion. When they build a guzzler for sheep, every living organism in the area reaps its benefit. When they transfer antelope from one area to another, antelope, hunters, and wildlife viewers benefit. The same can be said for any flying these groups dollars support. Many of these flights count multiple species at once, and in some cases, without these dollars, species would not be counted at all.
I have no dog in the fight, and can see both sides point of view. I do wish that there wasn?t such a ?line in the sand?, and everyone could work together for the good of Nevada?s wildlife....
"Ill bet this, given a choice most hunters in Nevada would take a bighorn sheep or bull elk tag over a buck deer tag, it wouldn't even be close."
I believe my economics professor would refer to this as scarcity. I believe you are partially correct with this point. However, for many hunters, who do not happen to live in a particular area inhabited by sheep or elk, the expense is not feasible. On the other hand, mule deer inhabit nearly every mountain range in the state. I agree that mule deer are struggling, but range conditions can't be blamed on grazing alone. An example that I think fits the bill perfectly is the fire between Harrison pass and the Ruby Marshes. This area was solid PJ forest and crucial deer habitat. I have yet to see and livestock capable of this type of devastation. I suppose the hundreds of thousands of acres of cheat grass in areas 6 & 7 are also from grazing. With these large islands of inhabitable land, the deer no longer have quality transitional areas to build up their fat reserves for winter. If grazing hurts anything, I believe it would be small springs and water sources.
As far as predator removal goes, I feel that routine flying for coyotes in winter range is imperative. With the popularity of predator calling at an all time high, coyotes have become smarter and wearier than ever. Flying the vast sagebrush flats is a very effective way to remove significant numbers of coyotes. As far as poisoning crows and magpies?.I haven't seen many studies done on this and don't have an opinion. However, I do know that I never want to see the sage grouse on the endangered species list as this could possibly shut down a lot of Nevada?s hunting opportunities.
Some of the sportsman?s groups who use private funding and volunteer work are imperative to Nevada?s wildlife in my opinion. When they build a guzzler for sheep, every living organism in the area reaps its benefit. When they transfer antelope from one area to another, antelope, hunters, and wildlife viewers benefit. The same can be said for any flying these groups dollars support. Many of these flights count multiple species at once, and in some cases, without these dollars, species would not be counted at all.
I have no dog in the fight, and can see both sides point of view. I do wish that there wasn?t such a ?line in the sand?, and everyone could work together for the good of Nevada?s wildlife....
B
bearman
Guest
RE: Ot
You obviously have not been to a state wildlife meeting. The line in the sand in very clear the SMALL group of idiots have no clue what they are talking about and want no wildlife in Nevada except deer. And have no clue how to have more of them. As for cheat grass it was planted for for cattle. Predator's can have an impact on wildlife but some forget they are part of nature and should be here to do there part.
You obviously have not been to a state wildlife meeting. The line in the sand in very clear the SMALL group of idiots have no clue what they are talking about and want no wildlife in Nevada except deer. And have no clue how to have more of them. As for cheat grass it was planted for for cattle. Predator's can have an impact on wildlife but some forget they are part of nature and should be here to do there part.
RE: Ot
LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-11 AT 07:06PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-11 AT 07:04?PM (MST)
I don't think cheat grass was ever planted, crested wheat is planted mostly for cattle but not cheat, it was believed to have come from bags of feed that came from Asia, but it would have likely shown up anyway at some point. It became so widespead because of the overgrazing that was rampant around the turn of the century, land that had evolved for thousands of years, was now subject to grazing by millions of non native cattle and sheep, it took some time but much of the native bunchgrass and other plants were eventually overtaken by other plants and brush . The brushy plants that deer favor live only so many decades, they did not evolve to be so wide spread naturally, plus the climate in Nevada during the last half of the last century was much drier and warmer than the first half, so we have dead and decadent brush and lots of cheat. Nowdays we also have many exotic plant to go along with the cheat from Asia, so make no mistake, the glory days of the 40s 50s and 60s will never return, it was a one time deal, and 1080 poisen and predator control was only a small part of what happened. The open range in Nevada will never be as productive as is once was, but on the bright side, it has evolved to favor antelope and elk far more than it did half a century ago.
LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-11 AT 07:06PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-11 AT 07:04?PM (MST)
I don't think cheat grass was ever planted, crested wheat is planted mostly for cattle but not cheat, it was believed to have come from bags of feed that came from Asia, but it would have likely shown up anyway at some point. It became so widespead because of the overgrazing that was rampant around the turn of the century, land that had evolved for thousands of years, was now subject to grazing by millions of non native cattle and sheep, it took some time but much of the native bunchgrass and other plants were eventually overtaken by other plants and brush . The brushy plants that deer favor live only so many decades, they did not evolve to be so wide spread naturally, plus the climate in Nevada during the last half of the last century was much drier and warmer than the first half, so we have dead and decadent brush and lots of cheat. Nowdays we also have many exotic plant to go along with the cheat from Asia, so make no mistake, the glory days of the 40s 50s and 60s will never return, it was a one time deal, and 1080 poisen and predator control was only a small part of what happened. The open range in Nevada will never be as productive as is once was, but on the bright side, it has evolved to favor antelope and elk far more than it did half a century ago.
B
bearman
Guest
RE: Ot
The land is very good for antelope and elk and not just in Nevada. When I was a kid it was rare to see antelope. I don't believe elk have anything to do with the deer decline. I believe we should work with what we have and expand on the wildlife that will like Sheep, antelope and elk. I'm not saying forget about deer, we should do all we can for them. We could have double the elk in Nevada very easy.
The land is very good for antelope and elk and not just in Nevada. When I was a kid it was rare to see antelope. I don't believe elk have anything to do with the deer decline. I believe we should work with what we have and expand on the wildlife that will like Sheep, antelope and elk. I'm not saying forget about deer, we should do all we can for them. We could have double the elk in Nevada very easy.
RE: Ot
You can't make deer thrive, if the habitat is there and a good string of weather comes along they will multiply. It really is too bad sportsmen and women in Nevada don't have more elk to enjoy, the habitat is there and a huge percent of the land is publicly owned. I remember someone that used to say how his dad was guiding in Colorado, how the deer were doing so poorly,it was discusting, the elk were to blame, and the Colorado wildlife dept was full of idiots and so on. That was a dozen years ago or so, funny thing, just a few years ago Colorado was rewriting the record-books with mule deer, for bucks it was as close to the good old days as we will likely ever get to see, and at the exact same time Colorado also had record numbers of elk. Interesting to see how that same person is so involved with the direction Nevada is going.
You can't make deer thrive, if the habitat is there and a good string of weather comes along they will multiply. It really is too bad sportsmen and women in Nevada don't have more elk to enjoy, the habitat is there and a huge percent of the land is publicly owned. I remember someone that used to say how his dad was guiding in Colorado, how the deer were doing so poorly,it was discusting, the elk were to blame, and the Colorado wildlife dept was full of idiots and so on. That was a dozen years ago or so, funny thing, just a few years ago Colorado was rewriting the record-books with mule deer, for bucks it was as close to the good old days as we will likely ever get to see, and at the exact same time Colorado also had record numbers of elk. Interesting to see how that same person is so involved with the direction Nevada is going.
W
WhiskeyMan
Guest
RE: Ot
"So wiskeyman, are you suggesting that the biologists and NDOW employees dont care about wildlife at all and they only manage the animals for a job? Have you not noticed a decline in deer herds all over the west? So does that mean that all western states are under the same management techniques?"
I'm not suggesting it.....I'm very directly saying it. Notice I didn't say anything about overall deer herd decline (like you mistakenly did). Nor did I say anything about antelope numbers decline. I said AGE CLASS!!! An G & F dept is funded by license sales. This makes them very similar to a business. They ain't traditional government.
When they manage for 40 bucks/100 does.......or an average buck harvest of 3.67 years old......based on a 1980's deer herd of 250,000 animals.....that is fine. That management made NV famous. When the deer herd (for whatever reasons) dwindles to 125,000 animals, then they must cut the number of buck tags issued down to a similar ratio in order to maintain the same age class or b/d ratio. They haven't done that...........cuz they don't wanna down size their agency size and payroll and bills by that same proportion. Hence......the trophy hunting quality takes a hit in NV.
Sounds like NV has more goats now than ever. But their destructive need to keep their full-sized 1980's agency plus raises, new trucks, and coffee-pots has manipulated their small, short-sighted minds to keep issuing high numbers of tags in Northern Washoe County. I looked at 40+ bucks......half were yearlings (not legal) and most of the rest were 2.5 year olds. Congrats NV DOW for managing this formerly pristine trophy area into the ground. Enjoy your new trucks.
"So wiskeyman, are you suggesting that the biologists and NDOW employees dont care about wildlife at all and they only manage the animals for a job? Have you not noticed a decline in deer herds all over the west? So does that mean that all western states are under the same management techniques?"
I'm not suggesting it.....I'm very directly saying it. Notice I didn't say anything about overall deer herd decline (like you mistakenly did). Nor did I say anything about antelope numbers decline. I said AGE CLASS!!! An G & F dept is funded by license sales. This makes them very similar to a business. They ain't traditional government.
When they manage for 40 bucks/100 does.......or an average buck harvest of 3.67 years old......based on a 1980's deer herd of 250,000 animals.....that is fine. That management made NV famous. When the deer herd (for whatever reasons) dwindles to 125,000 animals, then they must cut the number of buck tags issued down to a similar ratio in order to maintain the same age class or b/d ratio. They haven't done that...........cuz they don't wanna down size their agency size and payroll and bills by that same proportion. Hence......the trophy hunting quality takes a hit in NV.
Sounds like NV has more goats now than ever. But their destructive need to keep their full-sized 1980's agency plus raises, new trucks, and coffee-pots has manipulated their small, short-sighted minds to keep issuing high numbers of tags in Northern Washoe County. I looked at 40+ bucks......half were yearlings (not legal) and most of the rest were 2.5 year olds. Congrats NV DOW for managing this formerly pristine trophy area into the ground. Enjoy your new trucks.
mevertsen
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,281
RE: Ot
WhiskeyMan -
I am not sure where you are getting your numbers, but you are wrong in the number of tags that are issued in recent years compared to the 1980's.
In 1988 - there were 51,011 deer tags issued.
In 2009 - there were 16,728, the fewest EVER deer tags issued.
The 2009 statewide average buck to doe ratio was 31 bucks per hundred does and 48 fawns per hundred does. Obviously there are units that will be higher and lower than average in those numbers.
I am not understanding where you get the information that the number of tags, has not been reduced, and the buck to doe ratio is no better.
As for antelope -
The state has been increasing the amount of antelope and antelope tags for many years.
In 1981 - there were 745 antelope tags.
In 2009 - there were 2757 antelope tags.
Washoe County is still producing a higher than statewide average of 15" + bucks.
Sheep numbers and tags have increases, elk numbers and tags have increased.
Yet the deer population declines.
The bottom line is the habitat is changing to allow other species to thrive while deer decline. It is happening all over the west. Urban sprawl, cheat grass (which, from what I was told was brought in by sheep ranchers for faster recovery of feed after a wildland fire), highways, mining expansion, etc, etc, has taken away from the deer what we can never put back.
Mule deer are very sensitive and do not adapt well to change, where as sheep, elk and antelope can cope with things a lot better.
WhiskeyMan -
I am not sure where you are getting your numbers, but you are wrong in the number of tags that are issued in recent years compared to the 1980's.
In 1988 - there were 51,011 deer tags issued.
In 2009 - there were 16,728, the fewest EVER deer tags issued.
The 2009 statewide average buck to doe ratio was 31 bucks per hundred does and 48 fawns per hundred does. Obviously there are units that will be higher and lower than average in those numbers.
I am not understanding where you get the information that the number of tags, has not been reduced, and the buck to doe ratio is no better.
As for antelope -
The state has been increasing the amount of antelope and antelope tags for many years.
In 1981 - there were 745 antelope tags.
In 2009 - there were 2757 antelope tags.
Washoe County is still producing a higher than statewide average of 15" + bucks.
Sheep numbers and tags have increases, elk numbers and tags have increased.
Yet the deer population declines.
The bottom line is the habitat is changing to allow other species to thrive while deer decline. It is happening all over the west. Urban sprawl, cheat grass (which, from what I was told was brought in by sheep ranchers for faster recovery of feed after a wildland fire), highways, mining expansion, etc, etc, has taken away from the deer what we can never put back.
Mule deer are very sensitive and do not adapt well to change, where as sheep, elk and antelope can cope with things a lot better.
BigFin
Active Member
- Messages
- 693
RE: "RE: Sandoval rehires fired Nevada wildlife director"
>Just returned from my Washoe County
>antelope hunt along with a
>thorough review of the new
>NV Records book. I
>also talked to a few
>good hunters. Northern Washoe
>ain't the place anymore.
>
>I've never seen such few and
>dink bucks anywhere. I
>can't believe it. Same
>from the Sheldon hunters.
>This area was one of
>the best in the west
>for 85" goats 25 years
>ago.
Wow, I guess we were hunting a different part of Washoe County than you were. Here are two Sheldon bucks taken in the last four hunting seasons. These were higher end bucks, but not the biggest we saw, seeing some bigger, but never able to relocate.
If you draw a Sheldon pronghorn tag and do not find a buck exceeding 80", you are either extremely unlucky, quick on the trigger, or didn't hunt very hard.
The biggest thing that has changed on the Sheldon from when I lived in NV (1985-1990) is the number of horses has went through the roof. Not sure how NDOW can control those, when they are governed by the Federal Wild Horse and Burro Act, and have prevented the state from taking control over those range maggots.
And yes, the deer quality looked down significantly, but so did the habitat quality, something I attribute to Federal Agency management priorities, not NDOW.
I have hunted Nevada six times in the last ten years, for deer, elk, and antelope, and I cannot believe how the cheat grass has completely taken over many of the old winter ranges where I would call predators. Very sad to watch. Again, this is all BLM ground, so I am not sure how NDOW is the party to blame for such range conditions being how they are.
Just my perspective, but NDOW seems to be doing one hell of a good job trying to manage wildlife that was already living in marginal habitat due to drought. When you consider how adversely fires and cheat grass cycles have destroyed winter ranges, it amazes me that there are any quality animals in Nevada.
"Hunt when you can - You're gonna' run out of health before you run out of money!"
>Just returned from my Washoe County
>antelope hunt along with a
>thorough review of the new
>NV Records book. I
>also talked to a few
>good hunters. Northern Washoe
>ain't the place anymore.
>
>I've never seen such few and
>dink bucks anywhere. I
>can't believe it. Same
>from the Sheldon hunters.
>This area was one of
>the best in the west
>for 85" goats 25 years
>ago.
Wow, I guess we were hunting a different part of Washoe County than you were. Here are two Sheldon bucks taken in the last four hunting seasons. These were higher end bucks, but not the biggest we saw, seeing some bigger, but never able to relocate.
If you draw a Sheldon pronghorn tag and do not find a buck exceeding 80", you are either extremely unlucky, quick on the trigger, or didn't hunt very hard.
The biggest thing that has changed on the Sheldon from when I lived in NV (1985-1990) is the number of horses has went through the roof. Not sure how NDOW can control those, when they are governed by the Federal Wild Horse and Burro Act, and have prevented the state from taking control over those range maggots.
And yes, the deer quality looked down significantly, but so did the habitat quality, something I attribute to Federal Agency management priorities, not NDOW.
I have hunted Nevada six times in the last ten years, for deer, elk, and antelope, and I cannot believe how the cheat grass has completely taken over many of the old winter ranges where I would call predators. Very sad to watch. Again, this is all BLM ground, so I am not sure how NDOW is the party to blame for such range conditions being how they are.
Just my perspective, but NDOW seems to be doing one hell of a good job trying to manage wildlife that was already living in marginal habitat due to drought. When you consider how adversely fires and cheat grass cycles have destroyed winter ranges, it amazes me that there are any quality animals in Nevada.
"Hunt when you can - You're gonna' run out of health before you run out of money!"
W
WhiskeyMan
Guest
RE: Ot
mevertson,
You still are missing my point.....by miles.
I hunted 012-014 goats in August/Sept for 2 weeks. And I've spoken with quite a number of hunters on that hunt plus afterwards. I hunted out-of-the way places and have B & C animals to my credit, too. What a disaster. I remember when I lived in NV in the 1980's and any kind of a decent hunter produced mid-80's goats in a week. But.....no more.
Soooooooo...my opinion isn't based on G & F massaged numbers......but personal hands-on experience. They are issuing waaaaaay too many tags in N. Washoe. The current book shows an unusually high proportion of goats from Elko, Lander, Humboldt, and Pershing Counties from what it used too. Most big goats used to come from Washoe.......not from genetically inferior areas.
I also hunted elk in NV 081 this last fall. Great hunt, great numbers of mature bulls.
But since goat pops have changed in the same manner as muleys have in the last 15 years of drought and winter kills all over the west.........I question whether or not to use my 10 deer points in NV these years. I just don't trust NVDOW any more. I have EXTENSIVE experience hunting deer in NV.......but I think mismanagement of AGE CLASS has taken over as the NVDOW mantra. If they can destroy northern Washoe antelope...........then they can destroy their former deer state.
Look in this latest edition of the book and compare it to 1980-1995 editions.......and then make your conclusion.
I'm out.
mevertson,
You still are missing my point.....by miles.
I hunted 012-014 goats in August/Sept for 2 weeks. And I've spoken with quite a number of hunters on that hunt plus afterwards. I hunted out-of-the way places and have B & C animals to my credit, too. What a disaster. I remember when I lived in NV in the 1980's and any kind of a decent hunter produced mid-80's goats in a week. But.....no more.
Soooooooo...my opinion isn't based on G & F massaged numbers......but personal hands-on experience. They are issuing waaaaaay too many tags in N. Washoe. The current book shows an unusually high proportion of goats from Elko, Lander, Humboldt, and Pershing Counties from what it used too. Most big goats used to come from Washoe.......not from genetically inferior areas.
I also hunted elk in NV 081 this last fall. Great hunt, great numbers of mature bulls.
But since goat pops have changed in the same manner as muleys have in the last 15 years of drought and winter kills all over the west.........I question whether or not to use my 10 deer points in NV these years. I just don't trust NVDOW any more. I have EXTENSIVE experience hunting deer in NV.......but I think mismanagement of AGE CLASS has taken over as the NVDOW mantra. If they can destroy northern Washoe antelope...........then they can destroy their former deer state.
Look in this latest edition of the book and compare it to 1980-1995 editions.......and then make your conclusion.
I'm out.
B
bearman
Guest
RE: Ot
You must not know how the system works as most people don't. The wildlife commission votes in the number of tags. In Elko I have tried to get less tags for deer but some of the other people on the board at the time want opportunity more than quality.
You must not know how the system works as most people don't. The wildlife commission votes in the number of tags. In Elko I have tried to get less tags for deer but some of the other people on the board at the time want opportunity more than quality.
W
WhiskeyMan
Guest
RE: Ot
Because the Record Book is the most commonly used reference for determining the quality of trophies being harvested recently in each county, if you don't have a summary of teeth age data available to you. But, age data doesn't tell you the size of the rack.
Because the Record Book is the most commonly used reference for determining the quality of trophies being harvested recently in each county, if you don't have a summary of teeth age data available to you. But, age data doesn't tell you the size of the rack.
mevertsen
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,281
RE: Ot
>Because the Record Book is the
>most commonly used reference for
>determining the quality of trophies
>being harvested recently in each
>county, if you don't have
>a summary of teeth age
>data available to you.
>But, age data doesn't tell
>you the size of the
>rack.
UMMMMM....
Ok..... So.....
Antelope mature early - genrally 5 years is mature for an antelope. If we have a good fall and winter, and a good spring and summer with good moisture, then it is not out of the question to have a 3 year old buck get into the high 70's inch mark. So we have a lot of good bucks get taken, inlcuding a lot of young ones, and then follow that with a harsh winter that kills a lot of fawns and yearling bucks, and then a dry spring and summer. Then we have a lot of older bucks being taken that don't score nearly as well as the young bucks from the year before
The age class just went up, but the score just went down. According to what you are saying though, is that the score is a better tool for determining how tags should be allocated?
Yup, makes plenty of sense.
>Because the Record Book is the
>most commonly used reference for
>determining the quality of trophies
>being harvested recently in each
>county, if you don't have
>a summary of teeth age
>data available to you.
>But, age data doesn't tell
>you the size of the
>rack.
UMMMMM....
Ok..... So.....
Antelope mature early - genrally 5 years is mature for an antelope. If we have a good fall and winter, and a good spring and summer with good moisture, then it is not out of the question to have a 3 year old buck get into the high 70's inch mark. So we have a lot of good bucks get taken, inlcuding a lot of young ones, and then follow that with a harsh winter that kills a lot of fawns and yearling bucks, and then a dry spring and summer. Then we have a lot of older bucks being taken that don't score nearly as well as the young bucks from the year before
The age class just went up, but the score just went down. According to what you are saying though, is that the score is a better tool for determining how tags should be allocated?
Yup, makes plenty of sense.
nvnative79
Active Member
- Messages
- 479
RE: Ot
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-11 AT 10:11AM (MST)[p]There are animals killed every year that make the record book that are not entered. Some people could care less about scores.
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-11 AT 10:11AM (MST)[p]There are animals killed every year that make the record book that are not entered. Some people could care less about scores.
NVBighorn
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 9,458
RE: Ot
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-11 AT 10:41AM (MST)[p]Ok Whiskerman, I have a couple of thoughts. Not really trying to argue with you. You said:
"The current book shows an unusually high proportion of goats from Elko, Lander, Humboldt, and Pershing Counties from what it used too. Most big goats used to come from Washoe.......not from genetically inferior areas."
What on earth makes you think those are genetically inferior? Simply the fact that there are so many good antelope coming from those areas says they are not. If you think about it, 25 years ago there were almost no antelope in a lot of those areas. Churchill, Lander, Pershing are good examples. Back in the 60s and 70s and 80s there were almost none in Churchill County. Through transplants there are now very viable populations within an hours drive of my home in Churchill County. And a lot of really nice bucks. Same with parts of Lander and Pershing. So I don't think you can just look at the numbers of overall bucks in the book from Washoe county and draw the conclusions you are.
I don't have the desire to do it any more but at one time I would have taken your challenge and actually counted the bucks from Washoe county in the pre 1990s decades, by decade, and compared them to each decade since. I would also take out the bucks in recent decades from Churchill, Pershing, Lander counties so as to not skew the percentages. If you do that and compare the shear number and overall quality of entires from Washoe and Humbolt Counties in the record book it MIGHT tell a different story. You have to include Humbolt because it has ALWAYS been a major antelope county and MANY book bucks have come from there for years. I may be wrong. I don't know if a count would bear out what I am thinking. But before you can go off spouting all this stuff I think you should have some data rather than just basing it on your opinion.
Another thing, what data do you have that supports what you say about NDOW wages, raises, number of personnel? Also do you expect them to work for nothing? There is this common resentment that since they are doing "what we would all like to do" they should be paid poorly. What do you do for a living? Do you work for less because you like your job? And the truck comment was laughable. The coffee pot comment was downright mean spirited.
Now, back to the real subject of this thread. Thank god we have a governor who will stand up to Lent and company. Anyone who thinks that several members of the current wildlife commission is anything short of a bunch of belligerent bullies needs to go online and listen to some recorded meetings. Case in point is August 2009 where they bulldozed right over the top of all the county advisory boards and put Lent back in as chairman. Or watch the December 2010 meeting where one commissioner brow beat Dr Wolff while she tried to present her findings on bighorn sheep disease. It was embarassing to think they are supposed to be representing us.
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-11 AT 10:41AM (MST)[p]Ok Whiskerman, I have a couple of thoughts. Not really trying to argue with you. You said:
"The current book shows an unusually high proportion of goats from Elko, Lander, Humboldt, and Pershing Counties from what it used too. Most big goats used to come from Washoe.......not from genetically inferior areas."
What on earth makes you think those are genetically inferior? Simply the fact that there are so many good antelope coming from those areas says they are not. If you think about it, 25 years ago there were almost no antelope in a lot of those areas. Churchill, Lander, Pershing are good examples. Back in the 60s and 70s and 80s there were almost none in Churchill County. Through transplants there are now very viable populations within an hours drive of my home in Churchill County. And a lot of really nice bucks. Same with parts of Lander and Pershing. So I don't think you can just look at the numbers of overall bucks in the book from Washoe county and draw the conclusions you are.
I don't have the desire to do it any more but at one time I would have taken your challenge and actually counted the bucks from Washoe county in the pre 1990s decades, by decade, and compared them to each decade since. I would also take out the bucks in recent decades from Churchill, Pershing, Lander counties so as to not skew the percentages. If you do that and compare the shear number and overall quality of entires from Washoe and Humbolt Counties in the record book it MIGHT tell a different story. You have to include Humbolt because it has ALWAYS been a major antelope county and MANY book bucks have come from there for years. I may be wrong. I don't know if a count would bear out what I am thinking. But before you can go off spouting all this stuff I think you should have some data rather than just basing it on your opinion.
Another thing, what data do you have that supports what you say about NDOW wages, raises, number of personnel? Also do you expect them to work for nothing? There is this common resentment that since they are doing "what we would all like to do" they should be paid poorly. What do you do for a living? Do you work for less because you like your job? And the truck comment was laughable. The coffee pot comment was downright mean spirited.
Now, back to the real subject of this thread. Thank god we have a governor who will stand up to Lent and company. Anyone who thinks that several members of the current wildlife commission is anything short of a bunch of belligerent bullies needs to go online and listen to some recorded meetings. Case in point is August 2009 where they bulldozed right over the top of all the county advisory boards and put Lent back in as chairman. Or watch the December 2010 meeting where one commissioner brow beat Dr Wolff while she tried to present her findings on bighorn sheep disease. It was embarassing to think they are supposed to be representing us.
nvnative79
Active Member
- Messages
- 479
RE: Ot
Here is some info from the 2010 record book on antelope
Washoe: 106 enteries before 1990 / 155 after
Humboldt: 54 / 137
Pershing: 0 / 39
Elko: 8 / 57
White Pine: 6 / 9
Lander: 0 / 10
Eureka: 0 / 9
Nye: 3 / 9
Mineral: 1 / 3
Lincoln: 3 / 5
Here is some info from the 2010 record book on antelope
Washoe: 106 enteries before 1990 / 155 after
Humboldt: 54 / 137
Pershing: 0 / 39
Elko: 8 / 57
White Pine: 6 / 9
Lander: 0 / 10
Eureka: 0 / 9
Nye: 3 / 9
Mineral: 1 / 3
Lincoln: 3 / 5
mevertsen
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,281
RE: Ot
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-11 AT 02:29PM (MST)[p]>Here is some info from the
>2010 record book on antelope
>
>
>Washoe: 106 enteries before 1990 /
>155 after
>
>Humboldt: 54 / 137
>
>Pershing: 0 / 39
>
>Elko: 8 / 57
>
>White Pine: 6 / 9
>
>Lander: 0 / 10
>
>Eureka: 0 / 9
>
>Nye: 3 / 9
>
>Mineral: 1 / 3
>
>Lincoln: 3 / 5
Edited...
Didn't realize NVnative put these numbers up.
Thanks for the numbers - shows that Washoe is still producing a high number of good quality bucks.
Not sure what WhiskeMan is talking about with the quality sliding still. And not sure why there is a problem with other counties producing exceptional animals.
Happy Hunting.
Marcial
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-11 AT 02:29PM (MST)[p]>Here is some info from the
>2010 record book on antelope
>
>
>Washoe: 106 enteries before 1990 /
>155 after
>
>Humboldt: 54 / 137
>
>Pershing: 0 / 39
>
>Elko: 8 / 57
>
>White Pine: 6 / 9
>
>Lander: 0 / 10
>
>Eureka: 0 / 9
>
>Nye: 3 / 9
>
>Mineral: 1 / 3
>
>Lincoln: 3 / 5
Edited...
Didn't realize NVnative put these numbers up.
Thanks for the numbers - shows that Washoe is still producing a high number of good quality bucks.
Not sure what WhiskeMan is talking about with the quality sliding still. And not sure why there is a problem with other counties producing exceptional animals.
Happy Hunting.
Marcial
nvnative79
Active Member
- Messages
- 479
RE: Ot
I was just throwing those numbers out there for people to see.
There is no problem I think it is a GOOD thing that the Antelope, Elk and Sheep herds have all increased over the years.
I was just throwing those numbers out there for people to see.
There is no problem I think it is a GOOD thing that the Antelope, Elk and Sheep herds have all increased over the years.
nvnative79
Active Member
- Messages
- 479
RE: Ot
No problem Marcial, After reading Whiskey man comments I thought I would post those numbers up for people that don't have the record book to look at.
No problem Marcial, After reading Whiskey man comments I thought I would post those numbers up for people that don't have the record book to look at.
M
mesamuley
Guest
Is this the utah forum?
W
WhiskeyMan
Guest
RE: Ot
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-11 AT 10:50PM (MST)[p]NVBH,
Your right....I shouldn't have listed Humboldt County as genetically inferior as it has always been a good producer of big goats. Must have had too much Ambien that night. Humboldt now is somewhat like Washoe used to be, only weaker. Elko, Lander, Church, White Pine, Pershing, etc.....are traditionally genetically weak for big goats compared to Washoe. You can't argue with this as nvnative posted data supporting this. One more thing. Although the big bucks are gone.....the genetics stay behind. Even if only passed on thru a 2.5 year old BIG BAD WASHOE COUNTY HERD BUCK.......wooooooohoooo.
Genetically superior areas are exceedingly rare and one of natures rare treasures and should be managed for trophy status only. G & F depts should sell tags to support their new trucks and photocopiers and computers elsewhere.
nvnative.......waaaaay too much time on your hands, partner. But since you have it.....why don't you post the antelope data before/after 2005 to support my position?? I said recently, not pre and post 1990.
Also, for you offended gov't workers on this thread.........I happen to be a gov't man, too. Would you believe this?
Not trying to continue a lively discussion here. But if you naysayers think you are gonna sway me when I know very directly what the facts is.......you are pissin' up a rope. I have extensive experience hunting the west for 35 years. Got my bigguns.....and also paid for G & F dept trucks.
Just for your viewing pleasure NVBighorn.......here is a bonafide record book goat I saw on my Elko County elk hunt in November 2010. My point in showing this is.......given larger population numbers........there can be an occasional whopper in genetically inferior units. Don't mean that's a trophy unit, tho.
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-11 AT 10:50PM (MST)[p]NVBH,
Your right....I shouldn't have listed Humboldt County as genetically inferior as it has always been a good producer of big goats. Must have had too much Ambien that night. Humboldt now is somewhat like Washoe used to be, only weaker. Elko, Lander, Church, White Pine, Pershing, etc.....are traditionally genetically weak for big goats compared to Washoe. You can't argue with this as nvnative posted data supporting this. One more thing. Although the big bucks are gone.....the genetics stay behind. Even if only passed on thru a 2.5 year old BIG BAD WASHOE COUNTY HERD BUCK.......wooooooohoooo.
Genetically superior areas are exceedingly rare and one of natures rare treasures and should be managed for trophy status only. G & F depts should sell tags to support their new trucks and photocopiers and computers elsewhere.
nvnative.......waaaaay too much time on your hands, partner. But since you have it.....why don't you post the antelope data before/after 2005 to support my position?? I said recently, not pre and post 1990.
Also, for you offended gov't workers on this thread.........I happen to be a gov't man, too. Would you believe this?
Not trying to continue a lively discussion here. But if you naysayers think you are gonna sway me when I know very directly what the facts is.......you are pissin' up a rope. I have extensive experience hunting the west for 35 years. Got my bigguns.....and also paid for G & F dept trucks.
Just for your viewing pleasure NVBighorn.......here is a bonafide record book goat I saw on my Elko County elk hunt in November 2010. My point in showing this is.......given larger population numbers........there can be an occasional whopper in genetically inferior units. Don't mean that's a trophy unit, tho.
W
WhiskeyMan
Guest
"Somebody's taking themselves a little too serious."
Ugly comment, dude. Anytime someone gets the best of you in a lively discussion.......you move to discredit them for mental/behavioral issues? Wooooow.....
Ugly comment, dude. Anytime someone gets the best of you in a lively discussion.......you move to discredit them for mental/behavioral issues? Wooooow.....
NVBighorn
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 9,458
No, you just crack me up the way you act like we should be taking your word for all this vast experience and knowledge you supposedly have blowing smoke about inferior genetics and record books and coffee pots. This is the frickin internet, Mr. Nine Posts. You truly are taking yourself a little too serious. Just like me, you're nobody on the internet.
W
WhiskeyMan
Guest
Are you saying that to qualify as a successful western trophy hunter that a person must have 4000 posts on this terrific, world-class forum that allllll great hunters read and that 4000+ posts on this loser, nothing-better-to-do forum is what defines a successful trophy hunter above all else?
Deep, man. Just deeeeeeeeep.
Please post up some pics, data, personal hunt data......or anything to support your position.
Deep, man. Just deeeeeeeeep.
Please post up some pics, data, personal hunt data......or anything to support your position.
NVBighorn
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 9,458
>Are you saying that to qualify
>as a successful western trophy
>hunter that a person must
>have 4000 posts on this
>terrific, world-class forum that allllll
>great hunters read and that
>4000+ posts on this loser,
>nothing-better-to-do forum is what defines
>a successful trophy hunter above
>all else?
>
Absolutely not sir! Like I said, I'm nobody on the internet. We're all nobody on the internet.
>Deep, man. Just deeeeeeeeep.
>
>Please post up some pics, data,
>personal hunt data......or anything to
>support your position.
Likewise. You've offered nothing but your opinion, a lot of criticism, proclaimed to have hunted antelope and elk in Nevada in 2010 and a name in your profile that doesn't seem to match any tags drawn in Nevada this past year. Like I said, we're all nobody.
>as a successful western trophy
>hunter that a person must
>have 4000 posts on this
>terrific, world-class forum that allllll
>great hunters read and that
>4000+ posts on this loser,
>nothing-better-to-do forum is what defines
>a successful trophy hunter above
>all else?
>
Absolutely not sir! Like I said, I'm nobody on the internet. We're all nobody on the internet.
>Deep, man. Just deeeeeeeeep.
>
>Please post up some pics, data,
>personal hunt data......or anything to
>support your position.
Likewise. You've offered nothing but your opinion, a lot of criticism, proclaimed to have hunted antelope and elk in Nevada in 2010 and a name in your profile that doesn't seem to match any tags drawn in Nevada this past year. Like I said, we're all nobody.
B
bearman
Guest
This web site is filled with mostly young kids that have no clue what they are talking about. Then you have maybe .5% that really spend time out and have done research to know what they are talking about. I have had two antelope tags in that part of the state in the last four years. The hunting was great I wanted a 86 inch or bigger goat. I found a couple each hunt but wasn't able to seal the deal with my bow.
W
WhiskeyMan
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Jan-16-11 AT 08:55PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-16-11 AT 08:50?PM (MST)
LAST EDITED ON Jan-16-11 AT 08:28?PM (MST)
"Likewise. You've offered nothing but your opinion, a lot of criticism, proclaimed to have hunted antelope and elk in Nevada in 2010 and a name in your profile that doesn't seem to match any tags drawn in Nevada this past year."
NVBighorn, you seem to subscribe to the belief that if you discredit me, then what I'm saying just isn't true. It is true.........I WAS THERE!
I spent 2 weeks vacation and several thousand dollars, used up 11 pref points, talked to several other hunters on the hunt, talked to one hunter with SEVERAL book goats, reviewed all of the NV record books going back decades, used to live in northern NV, spoke to many residents back then about 012-014. I also have taken buck pronghorns in 6 western states over the last 34 years.......most of which scored between 75 and 88. I hunt at least 2 states every year, and have hunted the Rocky Mtn states extensively. These are my bonafides, partner.
I also work for the government now (so do you NVBH.......right??), and know very well that in this economy that they will do ANYTHING to keep from laying off and downsizing their people. The agency comes first above everything else. Most western G & F depts share this same philosophy. Look at all species in UT and also how WY has ruined its few trophy deer units and MANY desert elk units that were great trophy hunts a decade ago. This is a nationwide trend with government agencies of all sizes and types if you read the news.......SURVIVAL OF THE AGENCY PEOPLE COMES FIRST! This includes converting a former terrific trophy unit into an "opportunity" unit.......even when trophy hunters are paying their bills. 140 buck tags in 012-014 is waaaaaaay too many given the current population. I also only saw about 25 bucks per 100 does/fawns.
012-014 is "shot out" for older bucks compared to the decades past. And the Sheldon is not far from the same. I blame NDOW for not cutting back buck tag numbers enough to maintain the trophy status of these once terrific units. Yet NDOW still brags about trophy quality in their state. Sheeesh.
And yes, I'm smart enough not to post my actual name when registering on this forum. Too many twisted, lunatic, forum-addict stalkers on the net.
Here is one of the best bucks I saw on my 012-014 hunt. This barrel-chested buck was in unit 012. 15 1/2+ inches.
LAST EDITED ON Jan-16-11 AT 08:28?PM (MST)
"Likewise. You've offered nothing but your opinion, a lot of criticism, proclaimed to have hunted antelope and elk in Nevada in 2010 and a name in your profile that doesn't seem to match any tags drawn in Nevada this past year."
NVBighorn, you seem to subscribe to the belief that if you discredit me, then what I'm saying just isn't true. It is true.........I WAS THERE!
I spent 2 weeks vacation and several thousand dollars, used up 11 pref points, talked to several other hunters on the hunt, talked to one hunter with SEVERAL book goats, reviewed all of the NV record books going back decades, used to live in northern NV, spoke to many residents back then about 012-014. I also have taken buck pronghorns in 6 western states over the last 34 years.......most of which scored between 75 and 88. I hunt at least 2 states every year, and have hunted the Rocky Mtn states extensively. These are my bonafides, partner.
I also work for the government now (so do you NVBH.......right??), and know very well that in this economy that they will do ANYTHING to keep from laying off and downsizing their people. The agency comes first above everything else. Most western G & F depts share this same philosophy. Look at all species in UT and also how WY has ruined its few trophy deer units and MANY desert elk units that were great trophy hunts a decade ago. This is a nationwide trend with government agencies of all sizes and types if you read the news.......SURVIVAL OF THE AGENCY PEOPLE COMES FIRST! This includes converting a former terrific trophy unit into an "opportunity" unit.......even when trophy hunters are paying their bills. 140 buck tags in 012-014 is waaaaaaay too many given the current population. I also only saw about 25 bucks per 100 does/fawns.
012-014 is "shot out" for older bucks compared to the decades past. And the Sheldon is not far from the same. I blame NDOW for not cutting back buck tag numbers enough to maintain the trophy status of these once terrific units. Yet NDOW still brags about trophy quality in their state. Sheeesh.
And yes, I'm smart enough not to post my actual name when registering on this forum. Too many twisted, lunatic, forum-addict stalkers on the net.
Here is one of the best bucks I saw on my 012-014 hunt. This barrel-chested buck was in unit 012. 15 1/2+ inches.
I remember, northern Washoe county was the place for big antelope bucks around 20 years ago, I remember that, and I saw some of those bucks and talked to people that hunted there. I also have no doubt that they give way too many tags out to maintain that quality.
B
bearman
Guest
I was here and hunted in the 70' through today. I do agree there was probable more B&C bucks but there are still great ones out there. Once again the wildlife commission sets the number not the NDOW.
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