Scoring Question

hunter1975 · Sep 18, 2006

LAST EDITED ON Sep-18-06 AT 10:52PM (MST)[p]Does anyone know how to score this? Where do you start measuring the point length. Where is the H4 mass measurement? These are the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th points.

bobcatbess · Sep 18, 2006

IMAGINE OR DRAW A LINE STRAIGHT ACROSS THE MAIN BEAM,THATS YOUR STARTING POINT!!!

A BUCK WITH 4 POINTS PLUS/MINUS THE BROWTINES WOULD BE CONSIDERED TYPICAL,AN EXTRA POINT/POINTS WOULD BE CONSIDDERED A NON-TYPICAL POINT/POINTS!!!

A 6 POINT BULL IS CONSIDERED A TYPICAL!!!

IF A BULL WAS A 6 x 7,THE EXTRA 7TH POINT WOULD BE CONSIDERED A NON TYPICAL POINT!!!

THE ONLY bobcat!!!

Dub · Sep 18, 2006

Score what?

hunter1975 · Sep 18, 2006

Sorry, here is the picture

SneakAttack · Sep 19, 2006

H-4 should come between the g-4 and g-5. I assume it is the same even when it's palmated, but I'm not sure. Cool bull. Let's see the rest of him.

Bambistew · Sep 19, 2006

get a pencil and a staight edge draw light lines and extend the edge of the main beams through the palmation and then measure to the line to determine point lenght. Your "H4" measurement is the smallest circumfrence between the points.

I agree lets see some more pictures!

Dahlmer · Sep 19, 2006

h4 is the smallest mass measurement between the g4 and g5. Point length is measured from the edge of the main beam (where the point breaks from the main beam)...in this case I'm not sure how you would measure from a palmated antler. My guess would be you draw an imaginary line where the beam would likely pass through and go from there.

hunter1975 · Sep 19, 2006

Thanks for your comments. According to the papers I printed I should draw a line from both sides of the point for a starting point for tine length but I'm not sure if the Palmation is considered part of the main beam or part of the point. In this case that will shorten the G5 dramatically, but I'll get a good H4 measurement on mass. I'll probably have to contact an official measurer to know for sure. I'll post some pictures when I get the good ones developed from the mountain. It was a fun hunt.

huntindude · Sep 19, 2006

I'm an OM and yes you draw a line as close as you can guess to where the main beam would be on a normal antler and measure your point lenght from there. I've never had to score a antler just like that but I believe you would take your H4 behind the abnormal point at the smallest place, so go behind the palmation. I would call that more of a crown point than a G5 but if I were scoreing it I'd call B&C to be sure.

hunter1975 · Sep 19, 2006

The 5th point and palmation is identical on both sides. If you follow the vain of the horn on each 5th point they come off of the main beam perfectly inline with the rest of the points. This should make them a typical point and the bull should be a typical 7X7. So the question is where to take the mass measurement and start point measurements. Either the Palmation should be considered part of the main beam or part of the point. I don't know which. I may have to get it scored for kicks just to find out. I'm just glad he's a nice bull. I'll post pictures when I get them.

Thanks for your input.

257Tony · Sep 19, 2006

Where is D-cup when we need him???

lve2143 · Sep 19, 2006

Hell Tony,
Where's a good D cup in the
middle of a working day when you
need one. Know what I mean.
Sorry,
Larry

huntindude · Sep 19, 2006

Yes the palmation would be included in your point length measurement because you draw a line down low where your main beam should be, so if you measure the mass there also that would be double scoring it and that almost never is done. I think what you're calling the G5 is an abnormal or crown point and therefore you would move the H4 behind it , as I said if I were scoring it I'd check but I think I'm right, either way it is a 7 point as all points count.

hunter1975 · Sep 19, 2006

So does that mean that the abnormal point would still count as a typical?

Dub · Sep 19, 2006

Looks like some great character, but we've got to see the rest. Looking forward to it.

Dub

hunter1975 · Sep 19, 2006

Just Posted...."My 06' Utah Bull"

huntindude · Sep 19, 2006

To get credit for the abnormal point you would have to score him non typical as the typical chart would deduct those points. I just noticed you said the palmation was the same on the other side, that may make a difference. sometimes if a point like that is the same on both sides it could be considered normal. I still think what I've said is right but I remember in our OM training we had whitetail antlers with problems like this and the B&C reps argued about the proper way to score them. I'd like to say I'm 100% sure on this but it's not as clear cut as one might think that's why B&C tells us to send pictures to them and they'll make the call on an animal like this. I'd like to know for sure myself, any other OM's around here?

D13er · Sep 19, 2006

I just looked at the pictures of your bull. Since that G5 has a match on the other side and since both come off the top of the beam, they are normal points making it a typical 7x7. Your H4 will be taken at the smallest point between g4 and g5. The webbing will not be included in the length of g5. Draw a base line pretending that g5 wasn't there then measure length from that line.

JB

hunter1975 · Sep 19, 2006

That is what I figured B&C would say. It is a little tough to draw the line to measure the G4 this way? Also, does this mean the center line of the main beam would extend into the middle of the webbing rather than down where the main beam centerline is normally, maybe adding a little more to my beam length?

White is starting point for measuring line
Black is measuring line

D13er · Sep 19, 2006

that all looks correct except for the main beam length. Picture the beam without g4 and g5 and draw what the beam would look like without them. The center line of the imaginary beam will be MB length.

JB

hunter1975 · Sep 20, 2006

The way the typical G4 and G5 point should be measured treats the palmation as part of the main beam or it would not be considered a typical point. If that is the case the centerline of the main beam where the palmation starts and ends should be halfway between the palmation?

Thanks for your comments?

D13er · Sep 20, 2006

huntindude · Sep 20, 2006

Since you have a matching point on both sides D13er is right so you have a typical bull, I think what he's saying is move your black line down and imagine the main beam as it would look with no palmation for your main beam length. then if you measure your points from the white line you wont double measure the palmation which makes sense.

csutton7 · Sep 20, 2006

I always believed the main beam line for tine length measuring should be more natural curve from between the 3rd & 4th points to past G6---I always thought that palmation didn't hurt tine length and did help circumference greatly----but not being an official measurer maybe I'm off base---chris

huntindude · Sep 20, 2006

Chris,
Palmation hurts your score most of the time because it usually shortens the points and unless it's even on both sides the deducts take away the extra mass anyway. the way the B&C system works anything abnormal most often works against you. even most OM's admit they're learning all the time but if you didn't think palmation hurts point length maybe you're measureing from the center of the beam and not the edge? that's the most common mistake I see, I've even seen outfitters do it on hunting shows.