SF088...getting crazy

[nripepi]

The problem is there is no "fair" way to go from the flawed system without "harming" someone. Define fair.

Current system (PP 75%): Fair to those who have invested 20++ years in the system. Unfair to relatively new hunters.

Initial proposed change (BP^2): Unfair to those who have invested 18-22 years in the system. Fair to 22+. A little better for newer hunters, but still "unfair".

Buzz's 50-50. A little unfair to 22+ point holders. Little change in fairness to to 18-22 point holders. Still unfair to newer hunters, but a little better than current or proposed.

Go to totally random: Very unfair to long time PP holders. Most fair to everyone else.

And no matter what other option you come up with, there will be winners and losers.

If you care most about those who've invested the time (a smaller percentage of all hunters)- the current system is best. If you care about all hunters- totally random is best. The BP^2 and 50-50 are options in between.

Buzz has proposed a system that has strengths and weaknesses like any of the options. It isn't inherently bad. You just have to pick your poison- and with so few tags and so many demanding them, there will always be losers.

I would just say that NONE of the options are "stupid". They are all compromises benefitting some and not others.

Extremely well said, probably the fairest assessment I have seen.

 

[BradA]

I have read through part of this and if I am understanding it correctly in five years from now for residents only it will go to a bonus point system for sheep, goat and moose. Is that correct in my understanding? Or does this apply to NR as well ?

 

[hossblur]

Anyone ever done the math on the amount of money wasted and time spent on the ponzi schemes of points?

Notice, as usual, and as Buzz friend Newberg points out, point schemes were set up by grey beards to benefit grey beards.

Imagine a world with straight up random draws. New kids have same odds as old dudes.

No need for points brokers, point sharing, app strategy. Just simply put in 1app, 1 chance.

 

[jm77]

If anyone cares to, go look at the PP totals going into the 2023 draw. Attrition in the first year and the next 5-10 years is huge. These simple math equations being used to estimate the number of years to draw are way off.

That could possibly explain why residents are now drawing their second bull moose tag since the PP system began. That's with a 5 year waiting period! Bull tags are being drawn with as little as 12 points.

With OIL in place and a possible 50/50 hybrid, resident youth and new point holders will draw, assuming they stay in the game and utilize easier to draw areas, which they will.

 

[hossblur]

If anyone cares to, go look at the PP totals going into the 2023 draw. Attrition in the first year and the next 5-10 years is huge. These simple math equation being used to estimate the number of years to draw are way off.

That could possibly explain why residents are now drawing their second bull moose tag since the PP system began. That's with a 5 year waiting period! Bull tags are being drawn with as little as 12 points.

With OIL in place and a possible 50/50 hybrid, resident youth and new point holders will draw, assuming they stay in the game and utilize easier to draw areas, which they will. The beauty of the hybrid system, is those that draw random use their points too.

The qualifiers are hilarious.

So as long as they try for the lesser areas, or worse age classes, and IF they can survive the ever increasing cost, then they "could" draw.

But if they desire the same areas, age class, as old guys, then, well, too damn bad.?

There is no "beauty" in any point system. Unless your and old guy.

 

[LIK2HNT]

If anyone cares to, go look at the PP totals going into the 2023 draw. Attrition in the first year and the next 5-10 years is huge. These simple math equation being used to estimate the number of years to draw are way off.

That could possibly explain why residents are now drawing their second bull moose tag since the PP system began. That's with a 5 year waiting period! Bull tags are being drawn with as little as 12 points.

With OIL in place and a possible 50/50 hybrid, resident youth and new point holders will draw, assuming they stay in the game and utilize easier to draw areas, which they will.

“Easier to draw” areas are the key. It amazes me that people complain about not drawing when they only try for the top unit with the worst odds.

 

[Teepee]

If memory serves me correctly, the preference point system in Wyoming was originally set up such that 100 percent of the tags went to maximum PP holders. After a few years, it was changed to the current 75/25 process. Wouldn't seem like a big leap, given the change in parameters (# of sheep & moose decline & increase in hunters), to switch to a 50/50 split. I think that was also discussed back in the mid 1990s before the current 75/25. An irony of the situation is that the chief G&F biologist was against the original preference point system because he thought we would run out of hunters after 10 years. In his defense, he couldn't have anticipated a significant pneumonia die off of the sheep, along with moose populations getting hammered by wolves & grizzlies.