Shot or Peppered?

[TFinalshot]

Well now, was he shot or was he "peppered?"

I for one have been peppered, many of you have, but i did not get bb's lodged deep into my face and certainly not a single bb went into my body cavity. reports now are that he was shot at 35 feet! Peppered my ars, that's just plain shot! And now he's had a hear attack!


"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).

 

[HunterHarry]

I used to be an avid duck hunter and have been peppered many times.
Cheyney's hunting partner was SHOT at close range.
HH

 

[Zigga]

The plot thickens.

Isn't it interesting that the VP can cause a hunting/poaching accident from being careless and to some here it's no big deal, "it happens" yet Clinton gets a mouth hug from an intern and we spend, let me see, $30 million or so of our tax money trying to hang him? I find both hilarious, only because no one died. I just wish both sides would see the hummer........I mean humor in it.

 

[Buckrub]

My info. says .28 ga. at 30yards. Probably using #8 shot.
I'd say he was "peppered".
The lawyer should of made everyone aware when he retrieved his down bird that he was back in the hunt. Two "old rich basturds" hunt'in together NEED to be extra careful anyway. And why didn't the dog retrieve the downed bird(any decent dog would have)?
Bottom line, it was an unfortunate accident, but, the "paparazzi", as usual, is blowing it out of porportion!!
"Peppering" happens every year, but, it's the V.P., so it's big news!!! Unfortunately, the non-hunting public will take a negative view and, once again, the media screws the hunters!!
(remember the "Guns of Autumn" and Dan Rather).

 

[Muley62]

I didn't realize that Clinton's exploits were an accident. How do you accidentally get a "mouth hug"?

Hunting accidents are not "no big deal". But they do happen.

 

[TFinalshot]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-06 AT 12:24PM (MST)[p]buck, you must be joking! you think having bb's enter the body cavity to a depth that puts the heart at risk and so deep that the DR.s think its better leave the bb's in the body rather than opperate to remove them is peppered? That's just crazy, he was shot, plane and simple! Cheney f'd up and that's all there is to it.

 

[RACKMASTER]

Zigga (the eco terrorist)
You need some or well any female companionship (what your getting now is not working for you ).
Good to be the KINGS right hand man!!!
rackmaster

 

[Buckrub]

TFShot,
If the heart's at risk it's because he's old , not because of penetration. My son has a couple #8s in his head and they won't remove them because they move so much that it's hard to corner them, and the incision ain't worth it!!!
Assuming the guy had a shirt and vest on I think alot of this is being blown way outta porportion, but, if I'm wrong, I'll stand corrected!!

 

[TFinalshot]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-06 AT 12:46PM (MST)[p]I assume you would say your son got peppered?

You're wrong again. the bb is possibly migrating and may even be in the heart. did you hear the Dr's report today, or are you just speculating?

 

[Zigga]

More excuses please! These are great.

 

[Buckrub]

TFShot,
I guess I'm speculating cause I haven't heard or seen any recent Dr.'s report. If the pellets penetrated the atty's chest cavity, then he was shot almost point-blank.(that's hard to fathom)
It just seems weird that he was not seriously wounded and now it's suddenly a life or death thing. Who's tell'in the truth???
An open choke .28ga.@ 30yds. w/ light shot shouldn't have rendered such damage!!!

 

[DallanC]

Ummm yea, he HAD to have been shot in the chest. Those #8's just magically penetrated though the skin, ribs muscle and into the heart with at least 6" of penetration.

We know the victum also had many face and neck strikes so why in the hell is it so hard to think a pellet couldnt have entered in the neck / jugular and just traveled down into the heart. Skin is mighty thin there and it would only take half an inch of pentration to do... expecially on a 78 year old guy.



-DallanC

 

[RLH]

alla you zigganites need to read a little closer. from everything that i read before this turned into a clown show in the media was that the guy that got shot was the one who messed up. he had somehow circled in front of cheney and another guy and was where he wasn't supposed to be. true, the VP had the gun, but he wasn't the only guy that messed up. this is like blamin' the guy drivin' for runnin' over a jaywalker.

 

[couesmaniac]

I agree with you chris man how can I get a subscription to your magazine I saw it when I was hunting with Jay let me Know please I tried the net but got nothing send me a PM later Clint

 

[Buckrub]

Thanks RLH,
Your take on the whole incident is right on the money!!!!
It's just too bad that the hunting public will also take a hit!

 

[Dmanmastertracker]

I don't totally agree Lark, The guy with the gun has the burden of responsibility in that case. You ALWAYS have control over when you pull the trigger. All I can say is way to go Cheney for being one in two million and scoring a point for the anti's!! Near misses, or hits for that matter in my experience are always caused by negligence on the part of the shooter. Any shooting analyst will tell you, if you are at all unsure of what is down-range, DO NOT SHOOT. Period...

 

[alsatian]

I have heard that the shot pellet in the heart migrated there through the circulatory system. There is a lot of pseudo-information going around. Someone ventured to advance information that the range was 35 feet not 30 yards as has been said before. Is this speculation based on the shot pellet in the heart or new disclosure from principles involved in the event itself saturday afternoon?

Don't jump to conclusions on insufficient evidence people. "ASSUME" makes an "A$$" out of "U" and "ME" everytime.

I hope the injured lawyer recovers with no long term ill effects. I hope Cheney is more careful in the future hunting, but I got to tell you I have been there and can see how such an accident might happen. Thank God I have not in fact been involved in any such accident, but it isn't because I am a superior being to the Vice President or so utterly safe that no accident can never happen. Let's face it, handling fire arms is dangerous and any of us can experience a momentary breakdown in our safety procedures. This should inspire us to increased vigilance, but it is not an event that should stimulate us to thump our chests and assert our superiority over another hunter, not on the facts available today.

 

[TFinalshot]

CAN WE GET BACK TO THE POINT OF MY POST?

WAS HE SHOT, OR WAS HE PEPPERED?

 

[Dmanmastertracker]

Broke skin = shot.

 

[TFinalshot]

Dman - I completely agree with you and all that you've said. I think he was shot and the media should say so and stop saying he was peppered.

 

[Dahlmer]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060213/D8FOC6RG3.html

Sounds like peppered to me. At 30 yards a 12-gauge would be hard pressed to do more than pepper you, can't see a 28-gauge doing significant damage. Not defending Cheney...certainly he has a responsiblity to be aware of his surroundings (that's a cardinal rule of carrying a firearm), but sounds like the press is making more of this than is really there.

This quote from the White House Press Corps maybe explains why.

"After an indecipherable blur of shouted questions, Gregory's voice rose over those of his competitors."

"'Let's just be clear here,' Gregory said. 'The vice president of the United States accidentally shoots a man, and he feels that it's appropriate for a ranch owner who witnessed this to tell the local Corpus Christi newspaper and not the White House press corps at large or notify the public in a national way?'"

They got scooped by a podunk paper in Corpus Christi, Texas...not too good when your the white house press corps.

 

[TFinalshot]

alright Dahlmer, and other's who think he got peppered,

WHEN DOES PEPPERED BECOME SHOT, AFTER HE'S DEAD OR WHAT?

 

[Longun]

Why don't all you yahoo's quit argueing about this go down to the local gun range step off 35 yds and take a crack at each other with a 12 gauge or 28 gauge #8 shot and see if you get peppered or shot. Then come back and tell the results of this one legged ass kickin contest. Don't forget to wear your hunting vests too!! some of the ##### you guys argue about really amazes me.

 

[Dahlmer]

It depends on what your asking? In my opinion if your peppered then you've also been shot...no matter the distance.

If your question is whether or not his life was in jeopardy then he was peppered. Obviously there are a lot of factors to consider (choke, shot, etc.), but if the distance reported (30 yds) is acurate and he's using a 28-gauge shotgun I find it difficult to believe that his injuries were significant let alone life threatening. Chances are if this is you or me, we make a quick trip to the emergency room and they check us over and send us right back home.

I'm not defending Cheney...this is a black eye for all of us. He made a critical error in judgement and he's rightfully being roasted for it, but let's not buy into and promote the hype that he nearly killed a man.

If I hadn't spent some time bird hunting and been peppered a few time myself, I might wonder what in the world is going on. My concern is that the initial news reports would have us believe that Cheney shot him point blank with a high powered rifle.

 

[TFinalshot]

I think longun gets my vote of the 2006 darwin award!

 

[TFinalshot]

Dahlmer, you make some great points. I've been peppered too, but none of the shot broke the skin.

I'm not making any political hay of this mess because I think by now people have made up their minds and a stupid little hunting accident is not going to change a thing. You eithor like the guys in the white house, or you dont.

 

[Dahlmer]

I've never had shot break the skin either, I might feel differently if I had. I'll agree this won't change anyone's opinion one way or the other and it shouldn't either. It does serve as a nice reminder to the rest of us though...things can go bad in a blink of an eye if we're not careful.

 

[Zigga]

Point blank with a .410 or larger would result in a dead body. The guy was shot, not peppered. It's a shame either way.

 

[eelgrass]

Getting hit from 30 yards away with a shotgun is being SHOT. Not peppered. Getting hit by pellets that have lost their energy and are falling out of the sky is my definition of peppered. I've been shooting shotguns for 40 years.

Steve

 

[TFinalshot]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-06 AT 04:02PM (MST)[p]I agree with sigga and sweatgrass for a change . . . LOL!

 

[Chef]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-06 AT 04:05PM (MST)[p]I say he was shot.
Getting peppered would not have made the news.

If Bush SR peppered W it wouldn't even make the news.

Chef
"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"

 

[clyde]

Funny longun!!
He was shot.

 

[neb]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-06 AT 05:27PM (MST)[p]If the shot pellet penetrated the skin and then through the wall of a vein it could the be carried by the vein flow back to the heart and lodge in one of the small crevices in the heart. It could also be carried to the lung tissue and lodge in the small vessels.
I guess you would have to call it a "shot embolus"?
I have seen this in the past in a gunshot to the head. There were several small lead fragments which had been carried to the heart and then lodged in the lung tissue that were seen on the guy's chest xray.

It would not have to be a very deep penetration of the pellet for this to happen and would not require that the chest cavity be penetrated.
I don't think this is very common and you would have to be pretty unlucky to have that complication.
neb

 

[MOUNTAIN_HUNTER]

He was SHOT!!!!

Cause if he was peppered he still wouldn't taste good~

The only MH wondering where this post is going or gone?

 

[mtmiller]

I agree with you longun. Funny #####. Only one way to find out what 30 yards, 8 shot and a 28 guage will do. I am not that interested myself, but if someone wants to tell what it feels like, well, I will listen. funny sheet....

 

[huntindude]

It's true , the guy did have a heart attack from a piece of shot that moved near his heart in the blood. now they are blaming the shootee because he didn't let Cheney know he was coming behind him. still think it's no big deal? it makes all hunters look like Elmer Fudd.

 

[RACKMASTER]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-06 AT 08:51PM (MST)[p]GOOD THING HE WAS NOT EJACULATED(SP?) ON .....
WHAT WOULD THAT BE zigga! SHOT OR PEPPERED!
rm

 

[slider]

I would say if the skin is Pierced,it would not be called Peppered!!! Hmmmmmmmmmmmm THE GUY WAS SHOT!!! Good Luck

 

[D13er]

I've been "peppered" at 50 yards and it hurts like hell. 30 yards is close folks.

JB

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
--Benjamin Franklin 1759

 

[AZBuckSnort]

In my neck of the woods you have these descriptions of incidents concerning shot from a shotgun:

Rained on, peppered, shot, and killed.

 

[Dmanmastertracker]

D13" brownie pounder, he said "peppered", not "peckered". Wrong thread, but there's a good one for you on Boxcar Willie down in the Campfire...

 

[elk_horn]

You guys all need to watch the enterview tonight at 6:00 eastern time with ##### Cheney .. He admits he shot his friend and it was a horrable accident. He also states he is the one to blame. And also states it was the worse day of his life... I think everybody should back off and get the facts first!

 

[TFinalshot]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-06 AT 02:50PM (MST)[p]Hey Elkporn, who has the facts wrong? Cheney shot the guy, it's not a hunting accident, it's a hunting incident, and Cheney is the guilty party. Calling it an accident is like saying that an un wanted pregnancy was an "accident." Getting pregnant, like being shot in the head by your hunting partner is no "accident," it's poor prior planning and complete lack of responsibility. I have compassion, but Cheney is our VP he cannot go around making those kinds of mistakes. Maybe this explains why he never entered the military but is so quick to want our men put in harms way. He cant shoot worth chit and he cant stand up, on his own, and take responsibility. Sure he's going to be on TV, but only because his boss said DO IT, otherwise he's never make the appearance. He?s coward.


"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).

 

[Dmanmastertracker]

Agreed, all Cheney needs to say is "I F-d up". That's it. That doesn't take a whole 1/2 hour TV spot to do. I'll bet my left nut it will go like this; I'm sorry, but, he did this and my aide did that and they told me such and such. BS. Unnecessary.. Just issue a public apology and be done with it.

 

[idabigbuck]

Kind of a ridiculous question if you ask me. Isn't being peppered with a shot gun being shot? I mean, the gun goes off when pointed at you. Whats the difference? Shot, peppered, who cares.

 

[D13er]

Dmasterbator,

Looks like you're loosing a nut.

JB

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
--Benjamin Franklin 1759

 

[TFinalshot]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-06 AT 07:07PM (MST)[p]Maybe, but Cheney had a drink, he admints to that, he was with another woman, also a fact, and he tried to cover it up.

 

[elk_horn]

Tshot you need to get a life there was no cover up! The police were notified in a timeley manner and the Local press was notified as soon as the Fanmily members were notified.. you need to grow up! Cheney has admitted to the shooting and di not cover anything up you are like thje liberal Media.

 

[TFinalshot]

isnt it strange that even the most conservative polititions agree that it was botched ... There obviously is a cover up or it would have been handled just like every other press related issue - i wounder why it's okay for the VP to hunt without a tag, and under after just having a beer - if that does not make you raise your eyebrows, just a bit, than your not awake. I never said he was not sorry, and yes, he FIANNLY did fess up to it (that was a good thing), but still he is the most cowerdly person to ever have been a VP. He never would have said a thing if not for people demanding that he face the public. Me grow up, you should get youre head out of the sand and wake up.

 

[Dmanmastertracker]

Elk_Porn -SPELLCHECK BUDDY!

D13" MANNIPPLES, WHAT DID I LOSE?? IT'S EVEN WORSE, NOW HE: DRANK, CHEATED, HUNTED W/O LICENSE, PECKERED A LAWYER, ETC. ETC.. SOUNDS LIKE A GIRLSCOUTS OUTING TO ME... I THINK THE COVER UP HERE IS THAT YOU WERE THERE TOO!!!!

 

[Dmanmastertracker]

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11349649

A FEW BEERS, OR ONE?????

 

[TFinalshot]

Who cares - not me in the least until the ranch owner, who happens to be the past director of the wildlife department in texas, said that Cheney just "peppered" him. . .

 

[TFinalshot]

alright brokebackrub and RLH, you guys want to explain your posts now, after cheneys interview?

"alla you zigganites need to read a little closer. from everything that i read before this turned into a clown show in the media was that the guy that got shot was the one who messed up. he had somehow circled in front of cheney and another guy and was where he wasn't supposed to be. true, the VP had the gun, but he wasn't the only guy that messed up. this is like blamin' the guy drivin' for runnin' over a jaywalker."


Buckrub (545 posts)
Feb-14-06, 01:32 PM (MST)
14. "RE: Shot or Peppered?"
"Thanks RLH,
Your take on the whole incident is right on the money!!!!
It's just too bad that the hunting public will also take a hit!"

 

[TFinalshot]

And another thing brokebackrub, tell me how you get 200 bb's in your face, neck and chest if youre shot at 30 yards with a 28 gauge shot gun? There's no way that a 28 gauge shoots that tight, there's only 200 bb's in the shell and by the time the shot gets 30 yards the pattern is larger than a guys head and chest. . . Can you explain this?

 

[tylercreek2]

>>> SOUNDS LIKE A GIRLSCOUTS OUTING TO ME...

dman , dude what say we leave the girlscouts outa this , both my girls are in girlscouts , and am fairly certain they'd never shoot anyone ,,,, cepting maybe me

 

[bullcalf]

It sounds like a dumb a$$ gettin ahold of a fire arm. And I don't care if they are a R or a D - if they are that stupid or careless we should put someone else in office. Maybe he was preoccupied with how to get another $65 BILLION for Iraq. What the heck was he doing shootin quail in Texass anyways? who is running the country? Don't say bush because thats a scary proposition.

If it penertratin skin it is getting shot. Bull Calf.

 

[huntindude]

Question is did it take so long to talk to the anyone so he had time to sobber up? or so they had time to figure out if all the witnesses could be killed,or maybe they could tie a towel around Harry's head and say he was an Al quida spy and Cheney was a hero? I'm sort of joking about the killing but with this bunch who knows, they've told so many lies if they were Ponochio they'd need a log truck to haul thier nose around.

 

[mickeyelk]

My question is? Did they arrest the VP and take away his license for a given period of time/plus fine. My home state of Penna has laws that he broke, ie shooting another person while hunting either accidentally or on purpose, not reporting the accident within 24 hours, hunting without a license and the taken of birds while hunting. I can't remember all the game laws, that I have forgotten, but he did break a few too many for me. As we know he got off scott free. Texas law must be different!!!! I bet if I had been the one that did what he did I'd be in worse off shape. Money buys everything. later

 

[walltenthunter]

(1) Drinking beer or for that matter any booze while hunting is a major no-no. Nobody who hunts with me drinks during the day when we hunt.

(2) If you were stopped by a warden and didn't have a Habitat Stamp, what would be the odds you would get off with a warning. Try 0%.

(3) Cheney would not be welcome in my hunting camp, or hunting trip in terms of quail or pheasants, anytime. He just set back responsible hunting 50 years. Slob hunting #101

What we would think this administration would do when faced with rules normal people would be called on to follow. They invent their own rules.

 

[huntsonora]

walltent, that all may be true but I would rather go hunting with ##### Cheney that be taken for a ride by Ted Kennedy, LMAO

Drum

 

[TFinalshot]

Drum, ironic thing is, they both are taking us for a ride! And there's no way off this bus!

 

[RACKMASTER]

walltenthunter...
If GWB(JR) died(HOPE NOT) and Chaney was #1 and drifted your whiney ass to fight in Iraq......How would you feel about that stamp then?
My point is that this is no longer worth the energy!
let it go!!
RM