Sights for Encore (Help)

camo_deerslayer · Jun 1, 2010

Shot my encore yesterday with the .50 cal muzzleloader barrel. My groups at 30 yards were horrible... I hate all the space in between the back sights on this gun.

I live in Colorado, so we have to use open sights. Have any of you guys changed the sights on your Encore's? If so, what do you recommend?

I think I will mount a scope on the barrel, just to get a load worked up. Then I need a sight that allows me to shoot further out. I am WAY more accurate with my bow at 50 yards than this muzzleloader.... kinda scary!

HICntryCO · Jun 1, 2010

LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-10 AT 10:31AM (MST)[p]What loads did you try? The QLA on many T/C makes them shoot conicals poorly sometimes, it can be hit or miss I've heard. My Triumph like's BH209 and powerbelts, the heavier the better so far. As for sights I use the williams peep and a globe on the front, but I'm sure others will chime in with different options.

camo_deerslayer · Jun 1, 2010

I was using 450 Ultimate Conicals from Precision Rifle, 100 grains of Pyrodex RS. I shot consistantly to the right, tried moving the sight... now left... I just don't think I can shoot an accurate group with the fiber optic sights that came on the barrel.

I had an old hawkins mz tht had iron sights, shot it pretty accurate..... but there was no where near the "space" between the rear dots as this Encore has.

Elkhunter96 · Jun 1, 2010

I have an encore, I do well with the Hornday sabots 290 gr(I believe) and 110-120 grains of Triple 7. The next load I build up will be with barnes sabots and black horn powder.

I use a scope though, but I can shoot great groups well out past 100 yds with the Hornady loads. As far as a load goes, give that a try..

Hopefully someone will know of a good after-market open sight that you could use...

txhunter58 · Jun 1, 2010

He has to use conicals elkhunter, and unfortunately he is shooting a gun designed for sabots.

As stated, with the T/C QLAs, you have a challenge finding a conical that will shoot well. I have an Omega with that problem. However, it does seem to shoot bullets with a "cup" on the back. Powerbelts, Hornady FPBs, and thors are the only ones that I can get it to shoot. They seem to seal in the gasses better as the bullet passes through the QLA.

I tried lots of diffent non cup type conicals and they all did dismally. Tried the 460 gr No excuse bullets that everyone raves about and they gave me a 5 to 8 inch group at 25 yards! Some bullets went through the target sideways! Gasses were kicking them sideways as the went through the QLA.

Now I don't know for sure yours will shoot the cup type bullets well, but I will bet it will.

If you want to try a good bullet without spending a lot of money, order a couple of packages of Hornady FPBs in 350 gr. They have shot accurately in every gun I have tried them in and they are cheaper than Thors or Powerbelts. They have killed two elk for me too! My elk load the last two years has been 95 gr of BH 209 and the 350 gr FPB. Shots of 80 yards and 120 yards.

So I suspect it is not your sights. You may have to try different amounts of powder to find the sweet spot. Start at 90 gr, then go to 95, 100, 105, and 110. Bet you will find something in that range that is accurate. No reason to use more powder than that, regardless of the powder you use. Shoot three times with each load at 25 yards. Doesn't matter where they hit, don't change your sites, just see if they group well.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

txhunter58 · Jun 1, 2010

LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-10 AT 07:55PM (MST)[p]
Round 2: sights.

I like a rear peep and a front fine bead fiberoptic sight;

Peep:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...en/common/search/search-box.jsp.form1&Go.x=12

And front sight:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduc...ce=froogle&utm_medium=free&utm_campaign=10635

I don't use the ghost ring that comes with this, just the front sight. This sight is so bright, that in the middle of the day, you have to use the "hood" that reduces the brightness. Works well in low light as well.

With this set up and a solid rest, I can shoot a 4 to 5 inch groups at 150 yards.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

txhunter58 · Jun 1, 2010

Round 3: sighting your rifle

I am not a great shot by any stretch of the imagination with open sights. However, I was able to take my 100 yard groups down from 4-5 inches to 3 inches when I took someones advice and starting using the "6 o'clock hold".

It was just always natural for me to hold the front bead ON the bullseye. However, when you get to 100 yards, even a find bead covers 4-5 inches, so holding consistency suffers. BUT if you place the bullseye on TOP of the front bead, you can hold it in the same place more consistently. Takes a while to get used to, but I promise it will give you smaller groups.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

camo_deerslayer · Jun 2, 2010

txhunter,

Thank you very much for your insight!! I truly appreciate it. I have some power belts that I can try as well. I will find some BH209 to try also.

I think I will mount a scope on the gun to work a load up, then mount up and sight in the peep sight system.

Again, thanks!! I'm pretty green at the muzzleloader thing (as you can tell). Got a quality tag this year in unit 76.... I will turn it in if I can't get real accurate with this gun, or just bowhunt during the MZ season...

Phil

FrontierGander · Jun 2, 2010

If you're hunting elk, 338-348-405-444 are the best powerbelts to use for elk.

245+ for deer are fine as well.

I like the Truglow ghost ring rear sight and the Truglow Globe sight up front.

http://frontiermuzzleloadin.powerguild.net/

txhunter58 · Jun 2, 2010

I feel sure that you can get your muzzy shooting well. And although I really like BH 209, you should be able to get a good load with Pyrodex as well.

Also, forgot to mention. On the rear peep, I replace the screw out peep with a "twilight" peep appeture. Had to order it straight from Williams, but was only about $10. Much bigger appeture than the stock one.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

camo_deerslayer · Jun 7, 2010

Okay.... here's an update!

This weekend I slapped a scope on the muzzleloader and headed to the range. Took some 295 power belts and some Triple 7 powder with me. (Couldn't find any BH209) The "other" bullets I was using last week shot a 8 inch group at 25 yards!!!

Then I shot the PB's with 90 and 100 grains of powder. Both produced about a 1" group at 25 yards!!! Then, I got about an inch and a half group at 100 yards with the PB's and the Triple 7 powder!!! WOW!!

Now, I'll remove the scope and mount a peep sight and get that dialed in for hunting!! (can't use scopes in CO)

Thanks to all for your help and suggestions, especially you txhunter58!!!

txhunter58 · Jun 7, 2010

Will you be hunting elk or deer? Most would consider the 295 PB to be too small for elk. Most consider the 348 to be the smallest elk bullet and personally I used the 405 gr when I used PBs.

But the last two years I have used the 350 gr Hornady FPB and have been very happy with the results. Built tougher than PBs and cheaper than PBs too.

At least you know you can get your gun to shoot, now you can try several bullets.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

camo_deerslayer · Jun 8, 2010

I am going to try some heavier bullets. I decided yesterday to leave the scope on for a little while longer and work up a "heavier" load, as I will be hunting for elk.

320" + elk, that is.... ;0)

txhunter58 · Jun 8, 2010

If that is the case, I would put the 300 Thor bullet on the top of my list of conicals, With 350 FPBs next and powerbelts 3rd.

For that tag, you can't skimp on bullets.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

camo_deerslayer · Jun 10, 2010

I ordered a kit for bullet sizing from Thor. I will give those bullets a try!!

camo_deerslayer · Jun 14, 2010

Update: 6/14/2010

Bought a package of 350 grainn Hornady FPB's and tried them this weekend.. Shot "decent" at 25 yards, but about an 8 inch group at 100 yards... The power belts I tried last weekend shot a 1.5 inch group at 100 yards.. so I'm not sold on the FPB's in my gun!

The FPB's made some "wicked" tears in the paper!! About 3/4 inch tears... Looks like the tail end of the bullet mushroomed out (towards the tip) after it left the barrel... WTF?

Waiting on Thor's now. Hopefully they shoot as good as the power belts do in my gun. I'd rather hunt with the Thors, if I can get them to group....

Phil

txhunter58 · Jun 14, 2010

LAST EDITED ON Jun-14-10 AT 12:26PM (MST)[p]What kind of powder charge were you using for the FPBs? My Omega shoots 90 gr of BH 209 and my Knight LRH shoots 95 gr well. If I used more, the groups opened up.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

camo_deerslayer · Jun 14, 2010

I was using 100 grains of Triple 7...

Maybe I should back down a hair to 90 grains and try it again... Does yours tear the paper like I described above?

txhunter58 · Jun 14, 2010

No, I didn't have a tear. That would worry me that the bullet was not going straight in. What kind of a back for the target did you have? Something solid like a thin sheet of plywood or stiff cardboard gives the best indicator to me of how the bullet is entering the target. Look at the backboard, not just the paper target to assess the bullet hole If you are getting wide holes in a backstop like that, then something is definately wrong with the flight of the bullets.

I would drop it back down to 90 and maybe 95 gr and see what you get. That is plenty of powder for any distance you will be shooting in Colorado.

And while I think Thors are best and FPBs are good too, I wouldn't hesitate to use powerbelts if they shot well. Just have to use from the 338 gr and up as far as weight.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

camo_deerslayer · Jun 15, 2010

I will send you a picture via e-mail of the bullet holes. (If you want) They are pretty interesting... Shot it through a stiff cardboard box. The box has the same holes in it...

It is kind of fun messing with this muzzleloader. (Expensive, but fun)

txhunter58 · Jun 15, 2010

Sure sounds like the bullets were not flying straight. I would see how it does with lower charges. Be interesting to see how the Thors do too.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

camo_deerslayer · Jul 21, 2010

Update....

Can't get the FPB's to shoot AT ALL. BUT, The 348 Powerbelts shoot a 1.5" group at 100 yards!!!

Put the peep sight on the rear, I like it a lot!!!!