Six point bull kinda.

A

alpinebowman

Active Member
Messages
494
okay guys, Here is the scenario. I was up on the mountain over the weekend and before I had been up there for an hour me and a buddy crossed pathes with a six point bull that I was able to lace with and arrow at 26 yards. after I shot him once I shot another arrow at him and wasn't sure if it hit him but me and my friend still ended up watching it die. Before we got to the bull we went and got people and packs to start the task of carrying out the animal. when we found the bull it did indeed have 2 holes in him and the second one appeared to only hit it about 9 inches in front of the back leg and 2 inches up in the belly. The second shot was bad but my fist one was a double lunger so I didn't care all that much. well half way through boning the elk out 3 more hunters came down the mountain and asked if we shot this elk and of course I did I had the arrow and holes to prove it. It ends up that this hunter is the one that put the arrow in the gut and had been tracking it from the next canyon. well after much deliberation we decide to do a best 2 out of 3 coin toss for this bull and I end up losing. I am glad we were able to work this out civily but I still think I should get the bull since I know my shot killed it for sure. So what would you guys do.

alpinebowman

>>>---shots that are true pass right through--->
 
Sounds like Democracy won in the mountains.

Kudos to both of you. I respect and admire the other hunters persistence in chasing the gutshot bull.

I know these situations can easily get out of hand with tempers flaring. You guys both took a chance with winning/losing the coin toss, even if you think it is yours.

Look at the bright side, your hunt goes on. Karma on your side is a good thing. Looking forward to seeing that 7x8 you'll be posting. :)

Chef
"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"
 
I'd look at it in a positive light. You got to shoot a bull, probabbly got to take some photos, didn't have to clean and pack him out, and best of all you get to keep hunting. The coin toss thing sounded like a fair way to resolve the situation.
 
thanks chef I have had a couple of people give me that karma response, but I will have to preceed my 7x8 with the pictures of this bull for now.


alpinebowman

>>>---shots that are true pass right through--->
 
Another bright spot is you put the bull down and out of any suffering that he may have endured. If you had not there is no way of know if the other hunter would have ever caught up to him to finish the job. Wishing you luck.
 
I forgot to mention is that this was the first elk I had ever killed so that made the loss that much worse. I am looking forward to hunting more though. I can at least say I have killed an elk now. And I don't have to wait another year to do it. I just can't beleive how cool it is to have an elk on the ground. WHAT A RUSH BABY.


alpinebowman

>>>---shots that are true pass right through--->
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-07-05 AT 04:57PM (MST)[p]You handled it very well. Like was said, you never know if the other guy would have found it, but you did the right thing by putting it down too. Maybe you should have challenged him to a shooting contest for the bull, since it sounds like you would have won. Good job and keep at it.
Andy

Any pics???

Did you go to Bingham and graduate in 1998?
 
I commend you on your sportsmanship and your understanding.
My father had a similar situation occur when the deer he hit fell in front of another hunter and he fired a shot at the deer and then claimed it.
The way you and the other hunter handled it was about as fair as it could have been. You also get to continue the hunt and you desrve one thats bigger. Good Luck!
 
By rights... It was yours. A gut shot animal is as likely as not to never be found. The only reason there was any debate is you killed it. If I'd gut shot an animal (weapon doesn't matter) and tracked it to where a guy was dressing it out after a heart lung shot, I shake the guy's hand, offer some congradulations and apologize for my poor handiwork.

That being said, what's letter of the law and good practice don't always co-incide. You handled it well. Good trade would have put a rear quarter in the hands of the loser. You get a 1/4 and have your tag in your pocket.
 
similar situtaion:
couple years ago hunting with my dad, we seperated to hunt down through some cover, after a few minutes heard a shot, waited, moved a little down hill, saw some deer emerge from some brush and timber below me, 3 - 4 does and a small antlered buck with an obvious wound showing on the top of his shoulders, still looked pretty lively to me, I put the crosshairs where you are supposed to and fired, waited a few more minutes, dad shows up, I ask him if he had shot at a deer, he said no and asked if I shot, I said I had. we went down to where the deer had been when I shot and shortly found a blood trail and then a dead buck with a wound on top of his shoulders (probably not fatal) and a hole through both lungs (mine), we dressed him out and stood around talking for a few more minutes. then over the next 10 - 15 minutes 3 different guys walk up and we asked each one if they had shoot at this buck, finally the third guy said yes he had, I told him the buck was his and he gladly tagged it in our presence. I would have tagged it and taken it home if the guy that drew blood had not shown up. If I had not shot that deer it would have been on private - posted land long before he ever caught up to him.
 
You did the right thing. Maybe its just me, but shooting an animal that was already wounded by another hunter just wouldn't feel right. I know its all meat in the freezer in the end, but knowing you took an animal that was 100% your doing would be more satisfing.

A similar thing happened to me when I first moved to Ut. I made the mistake to go on the spike only hunt. I fully lucked into one on a steep slope at a 100yds, I got a steady rest and shot him right in the shoulder he spud around and started doing the 3 legged gant down the hill, he went down the hill maybe 20 yrds and then started tumbling. Right when he started to tumble, some other guys started shooting, I thought thay were shooting at some elk I couldn't see. But after the bull died and he was only about 200 yrds from me and about 400 yrds from them and they almost beat me to the dead spike I knew something was up. They claimed they have be stalking this spike all morning, They fully claimed they shot first and it fell when they shot among other total bs, they must of shot 8-10 times. but there was only one bullet hole in the bull right in the right shoulder, they missed every shot as it rolled down the hill. I just figured if these jackass Utards are going to get that worked up over a spike, then they can just have it. I ended up getting another one the last day of the season a lot closer to the road. It all worked out for me hopfully it will for you too.
 
I was there when Alpinebowman made the kill. That will teach me to tuck my release under my sleeve. If I hadn't I may have had an arrow in him too. It was awesome to watch him drop at 90yds. We actually got a front and back 1/4, 100 lbs. of deboned tasty elk. Man thats goooood!
 
I have always thought that the animal would belong to whoever drew first blood. In this situation I feel that the right thing happened, had the other hunters not put forth the effort they did then the bull would be yours. Kudos to all involved, that is the way things should be resolved.

Drummond
 
I think you made the right move. Sometimes these things get pretty ugly. Your good turn will be rewarded in the future. You will get another chance and hopefully it will be a bigger bull.
 
In wyoming who ever kills the animal gets the animal--by the law. By the way, if a warden had walked up while you were deboning it, he would have asked why you hadn't tagged it. If the tag isn't filled out, the animal can be confiscated and the hunter often fined.

You worked it out with the other guy, ended up with some of the best meat in the country, and get to keep hunting. Not a bad deal.
 
andymam, yes I did graduate from bingham in 98.

mmwb I realize I should of tagged it but it being my first elk I totally spaced it with all of the excitement. this should definitly teach me a leason.had I tagged it I would have claimed it for sure.

alpinebowman

>>>---shots that are true pass right through--->
 
You did the right thing! I admire people that can have a discussion over a point of contention and work it out in a mutually agreeable manner. Communication and flexibility will always pay off. NICE JOB! You not only have shown good sportsmanship, but true intelligence.
 
I agree with Colville. A quarter would have been a great gesture on the other guy's part. But, lke the others have said...you killed a bull, got pics, and get to keep on huntin. Great sportsmanship! And, you will always have the memory of the hunt and being a gracious sportsman. Good Luck getting another great bull.
 
I don't know if you did the right thing or not. You sure handled it great. I also admire you for being that way.
 
Reminds me of a story. Early one opening morning I was minutes away from setting up on a 6-point bull when WWIII started. I heard a loud thwack and the elk finally ran off. I got up to these derelicks from Minnesota and they asked if I wanted a small 5-point that they had shot because it came over the hill wounded. Little did they know I had been watching the heard for the last hour and knew that no 3-legged 5 point crossed a draw, climbed 4,000 feet in elevation to cross a ridge and get shot by them. I asked if the 6-point got hit and they said they didn't know for sure. After their first shot the elk gathered and they started heard shooting, accidently hitting the 5-point in the arse and the bigger bull got away. These idiots weren't even going to acknowledge hitting the 5-point in their ridiculous volley of lead. I could write a book on bonehead stories like this.
 
I was always brought up in almost 100 years of hunting -first blood was first blood-but I always hunted with either a lot of family or good friends.
I remember about 30 years ago we had this favorite ridge we always hunted and we fan out and parallel it. I always liked to be the low man and every other person had their favorite spot also. Sure enough about halfway thru the hunt I hear 2 shots way up high and immediately set down. After about 15 minutes of no crashing thru the trees or Yips and yells from fellow hunters I headed towards the road. About a hundred yards from the road I look up on the the opposite ridge and their must of been about 5 or 6 guys perched up there like buzzards and in the meantime I come accross this fresh track and there is blood in it. Well I got my head down like a hound dog and walk right up on this buck laying 10 yds from the road and about 10 ft from me. He Jumps up and starts running right down this old dirt road and I take one broad side snap shot and jump behind this big Pine tree cause WWIII is about to start with those hunters up on the ridge seeing that buck running right down the road. As the buck was running away I could see nothing but red on his butt and they cracked about 4 or 5 shots at him. One guy comes bailing off the ridge yelling " I got him" as the buck disappears down this canyon. I met up with him and told him the buck was crippled when I saw him and was pretty sure I poked a hole in him too. So anyway we find the buck and there isn't any holes in him from the side they were shooting from. So the hunter leaves in disgust and I start gutting him out, needless to say I paunched him and I thought one our other hunters shot him right in the ass. I just get done and here comes this young kid with the sweat rolling off him and is packing this rock that must weigh 5 pounds all covered with blood. And he tells me he's the one that shot him in the butt. So I just told him "Yep, he's yours." I think he was pretty amazed I said that and helped him drag him back up to the road. He was a nice 24 inch 4 point and needless to say the kid was pretty excited.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-12-05 AT 10:08PM (MST)[p]Here are a couple of pictures of the bull.


elk2.jpg



elk3.jpg


alpinebowman

>>>---shots that are true pass right through--->
 
Hi, all.
I'm new to this forum, but not to hunting. My husband and I are Idaho Archery Education instructors. So if you are wondering where I am getting my information, it comes from our class, which is the International Bowhunter Education course.

Alpine (and anyone else who cares to read),
There is what in bowhunting is called the "rule of first blood". It is also known as the Unwritten Law of the Bowhunter. It is exactly as follows....

The "rule of first blood" establishes a fair way to determine who can claim an animal that has been shot by two hunters. Although it may not have legal grounds, its strength and enforcement lie directly with understanding and true sportsmanship by all responsible bowhunters. The first hunter to place an arrow in the animal's vital area which draws enough blood to leave a trackable trail, and thus has a good chance of bringing the animal to his or her posession may claim the animal. Conversely, if the first hunter feels that the wound was superficial in nature and recovery of the animal was not likely, that hunter should give up claim to the game if another hunter brings it to the ground.

I think you did the right thing by not making a huge deal out of the situation. You don't always know who you are dealing with. It has happened before that when things get heated people react in ways that they wouldn't normally do. When weapons are involved it can get real scarey. Glad to see that you were able to walk away without a fight or any injury to anyone. Congrats on your first elk and may there be many more in your future.

Hikchick
 
As a archery education instructor here in Idaho I have heard many stories like this and am always amazed at how well they turn out. Congrats to you for being a good bowhunter and sportsman!!!!!!! I know it might hurt but at the same time you will look back and know you did the right thing and be glad you lost the coin toss. I know of a fellow (will call him rob) that drew a once in lifetime bighorn sheep tag here in Idaho. Rob hired a good guide and off he went into the backcountry. He and his guide found a good ram and decided to go after it, it was skylined on a ridge and they got in easy rifle range of about 200 yards. He took a steady rest and fired. At the shot the ram went down hard. Rob knew he made a good shot but in his mind he thought he herd a second shot at almost the same time, but dismissed it as a ehco off the canyon wall. Robs guide heard and thought the same as well. When they got to the ram they noticed not one but 2 holes in it. Each comming from different sides of the ram. They looked around an noticed 2 men heading ther way up the towards them on the opposite side of the ridge that the ram was standing on. Sure enough it was another sheep hunter and his guide. The guides were not from the same outfitter but knew of each other. They all taked about it and all decided to have a coin toss. Rob won the toss and took the ram home. He says that to this day he wishes he would have lost the coin toss and was able to shoot a ram that was all his. With time and after several elk under your belt you will think the same. Good luck Jason aka idahoelkinstructor
 
I was 16 on my first bowhunt. I grew up in Utah and hunted Mockingbird hill up by strawberry. That place was like a drug to me, I longed for it everytime I was away. I would scout and scout preseason and see those velvet big boys hangin in the quakies. The first morning of the hunt the hill was crawling with guys but I had done some major scouting and knew the escape route many bucks used when spooked. On opening day, a great big ol' three point (24-26" wide) came runnin up the trail with his tongue hangin, obviously running from other hunters. I pulled back my ol' XI silverhawk and let one fly. The arrow hit high and back but I will tell you I have never seen more blood fly from the major artery (caudal?)along the spine. The buck went straight downhill as fast as he could through a thick stand of quakes. Blood painted the bleached tree trunks all the way down, it was an easy trail. Well, 5 minutes later I walked upon my first trophy with an older man in his 40's standing over him. He proceeded to tell me that my shot was bad and not fatal and that he humanely finished off the running buck with his 90 pound bow through the neck. A feeling ran through my veins I have never felt nor have felt since; disgust, hate,and envy. Holding back my tears, I asked if I could take a picture with the deer, he replied "No, it is going on the wall and you shouldn't touch the velvet"
It is all but a scar now that has taught me to go way back into the wilderness were this won't ever happen again, and it hasn't, but if it does, especially if the other huntert is a 14 year old as excited as I was, the outcome will be different. So if you are reading this post old man and that was you back in the'94-95 era, I hope you are truly proud of that buck that adorns your wall.
 
thanks for all of the stories guys I appreciate all of the great comments and stories. It is good to know so many of us in the field can get work things out when we need to. here's to hopeing it won't happen again to any of us but if it does just remember to be civil and it will always work out in the end. good hunting to all

alpinebowman,

>>>---shots that are true pass right through--->
 
Great pictures Alpine!

Glad you were able to snap a few off of you and your first bull elk. A sure dandy at that. Even if the antlers don't hang on your wall, you have the pics, the sportmanly story to go with it, and a valuable lesson that you have brought and shared with us.

Thanks.

Chef
"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"
 
Alpine

Lots of good thoughts. I too commend you on your sportsmanship.

One way of looking at it is always in the others boots. Gut shots are fatal(normally) and not that difficult to track (unless too many folks running around on the mountain. Normally you just let them bed and expire in 4-8 hours. They don't usually go far.

So now I guess what I'm saying is if it was your gutshot and the other guys helped ya a bit, you'd be thankful too. I know I would. I also know that I'd have been able to recover it on my own without help. So, IMHO it belongs to the first to draw blood.

Like others say, you'll be repaid many times along the way.

Thanks for being a great representative out in the field!!! I know in my younger days I may not have been as gracious or easy to get along with!

PS if required we hope you got all the pertinant data to have meat without a tag.

Jeff
 
Firstblood has always been my rule of thumb although I have never been in that situation. Sounds like you did indeed handle it civily. Congratulations.
 
Did the coin toss thing with a trophy buck my brother shot. There should have never been a coin toss as there was no doubt my brother killed this buck. The guy was a prick, and later we found out he tagged the buck with his wifes tag. Very long story that I posted years ago on this forum. In hindsight, we should have never let this guy take the buck.

cabinfever
 
I bet it was tough to see the last flip go the other guys way. I sure admire you for doing what you did.

I hope it was their first elk if not they should have let you take it.

I had a 185 class mulie taken away from me at gun point when I was 16 on the muzzleloader hunt. I had hit the buck twice and was right behind hit when the other guys shot it. I was by myself and their was three of them and they took it at gun point. I can still remember that deer and like BBB I hope they enjoy looking at the buck they stole from a 16 yr old kid.
 
i do not know what would happen if this ever happened to me! i know for sure i would not go down with out a fight though, i would not simply give my deer away! hoever, you did the right thing!
Casey
 
Casey

Just remember there are 2 sides to the story. What IF you were the first one to shoot it. What IF you were the last one to shoot it.

I know exactly how you feel though.

Jeff
 

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