What are your feelings on the snow pack on the east side of Oregon. Will it benefit the deer and elk or are we going to see a big die off. I am worried about a freeze where we see that thick crust of snow where the animals cant get around and the big predators can.
Snow pack
- Thread starter whtelk
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huntindude
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I'm in the central part of the state and for right now it's not that bad, we have above average snow packs up high but the lower elevations are not too bad yet. the north eastern part of the state is more of a concern though I'm prety sure.
silverlake176
Active Member
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I'm in the south-central part of the state in Klamath Falls and we've got hit really hard this year with snow. I'm also really concerned with the possibility of a bad freeze. Hopefully the snow will taper off and the animals can get through the winter around here.
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huntindude
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LAST EDITED ON Feb-06-08 AT 11:09AM (MST)[p]That's what ODFW wants us to think. they tell us feeding does no good because they don't want to spend the money to feed, they just want to study how many animals died and cut the tags back 1%. come look at the deer hanging around where I'm feeding alfalfa to cattle and tell me feeding doesn't work, they're fat as pigs. Colorado is feeding big time in the Gunnison Basin and if you've ever hunted deer in Colorado you'd know that they know something we don't.
I know plenty of ranchers including my family that feeds elk / deer on our/their property. Yes it cost people money, but it helps. If every oregon hunter gave ranchers $50 year for hay, I think the winter would be a lot easier on the animals. But that isn't going to happen. The ranchers would do a lot more, if they could afford to...
muleyman
muleyman
HighDesert
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Severe Winter this is just a good old fashioned winter. My god look back to 1992/1993 winter that was horrendous. I mean 10 feet of snow in Klamath Falls that is when we should have done something. We lost 70% of the the Oregon Deer herd that year. Used to be 3000+ tags in the steens before that year now 15 years later we are down to 300. 500 tags for the trout creeks now 50. That winter combined with the cougars and add in the loss of habitat because of Junipers. Yeah it is serious.
This winter is just above average. I mean me and my dad talked about this winter and its effect on deer. He has been going through these winters for over 55 years. Riding trains between Klamath Falls and Bend. This is minor compared to what is usually there. My grandfather for over 60 this is nothing compared to the 60's and 70's according to them. There is hardly anything on the Lost River, Fort Rock, Warner, Malheur, and Jordan Valley winter ranges. Yeah there are a few feet up in NE but nothing like they are getting in colorado and Utah. There will be about a 5-10% winter die off just like every year. But we are not going to suffer like colorado and Utah are. I have heard predictions of 50%+ in parts of colorado and Utah. We will have lots of water this year and a great green up. Good horn growth and a great fawn survival rate. Just wait guys this is not a bad thing it is a good thing.
Just get out and kill the Predators while you guys can. for every coyote you kill that will be between 5-10 more deer that make it every year. Cougar is 52 deer per year added to the herd. Start doing the multiplication 100 coyotes and we are talking 500 to 1000 deer. per year.
50 cougars that is 2600 deer per year. that survive we get rid of that many eyery year and we talking compounding assistance to your deer herds. so for the first year 2600 the next year you take out another 50 that is 2600 from the previous plus another 2600 add in life expectancy of 7-10 years for a cougar and that number gets big real fast. and you are talking over 50,000 deer in 6 years.
Take a chainsaw out with you when you go for a drive cut down 50 Junipers. Junipers are usually only 8-10" in diameter they go down fast. a Juniper uses between 20 and 100 gallons of water everyday 365 days in a year and yeah that is alot of water so lets go median 50 gallons of water a day. You are talking for taking out those 50 trees almost 1000000 gallons of ground water that go back to the springs yearly. This last year alone I personally cut down over 850 junipers small ones big ones did not matter they went down 2 of the springs were dry before this last big storm they had water running out of them
See everyone talks a great game what they could do. I always have a chainsaw in the back of my truck. Look at the maps see where there used to be an old spring at surrounded by junipers go in there and take them out and guess what your spring will be back within 1-2 years. I have seen it personally this year. More springs mean deer are spread out more and are less vulnerable. This year I have set a number of 1000 junipers that hit the ground. What is 200 dollars for gas and bar oil and a few chains and a little bit of hard work. Not very dang much for all the good it does.
So there is my opinion. God this winter could be so good for everyhting if their were not as many junipers in this state.
Dave
This winter is just above average. I mean me and my dad talked about this winter and its effect on deer. He has been going through these winters for over 55 years. Riding trains between Klamath Falls and Bend. This is minor compared to what is usually there. My grandfather for over 60 this is nothing compared to the 60's and 70's according to them. There is hardly anything on the Lost River, Fort Rock, Warner, Malheur, and Jordan Valley winter ranges. Yeah there are a few feet up in NE but nothing like they are getting in colorado and Utah. There will be about a 5-10% winter die off just like every year. But we are not going to suffer like colorado and Utah are. I have heard predictions of 50%+ in parts of colorado and Utah. We will have lots of water this year and a great green up. Good horn growth and a great fawn survival rate. Just wait guys this is not a bad thing it is a good thing.
Just get out and kill the Predators while you guys can. for every coyote you kill that will be between 5-10 more deer that make it every year. Cougar is 52 deer per year added to the herd. Start doing the multiplication 100 coyotes and we are talking 500 to 1000 deer. per year.
50 cougars that is 2600 deer per year. that survive we get rid of that many eyery year and we talking compounding assistance to your deer herds. so for the first year 2600 the next year you take out another 50 that is 2600 from the previous plus another 2600 add in life expectancy of 7-10 years for a cougar and that number gets big real fast. and you are talking over 50,000 deer in 6 years.
Take a chainsaw out with you when you go for a drive cut down 50 Junipers. Junipers are usually only 8-10" in diameter they go down fast. a Juniper uses between 20 and 100 gallons of water everyday 365 days in a year and yeah that is alot of water so lets go median 50 gallons of water a day. You are talking for taking out those 50 trees almost 1000000 gallons of ground water that go back to the springs yearly. This last year alone I personally cut down over 850 junipers small ones big ones did not matter they went down 2 of the springs were dry before this last big storm they had water running out of them
See everyone talks a great game what they could do. I always have a chainsaw in the back of my truck. Look at the maps see where there used to be an old spring at surrounded by junipers go in there and take them out and guess what your spring will be back within 1-2 years. I have seen it personally this year. More springs mean deer are spread out more and are less vulnerable. This year I have set a number of 1000 junipers that hit the ground. What is 200 dollars for gas and bar oil and a few chains and a little bit of hard work. Not very dang much for all the good it does. So there is my opinion. God this winter could be so good for everyhting if their were not as many junipers in this state.
Dave
Dave, good post but I'm curious where you got your #'s for the amount of water western juniper can soak up each day?
In a moderately stocked stand of 30 trees/acre wj will extract 2 inches of soil water in a dry year and 5.6 inches in a wet year. So if your in an area that has a 14 inch average rainfall, a 20% canopy cover of wj can result in a loss of 2.5-3 inches of precipitation annually.
Managing western juniper enchroachment is a big part of my job so I'm always interested in any information about that species.
Your dead on about improving the flow from natural springs.
Also, western juniper can be a critical browse for big game and they're really using it this winter in my neck of the woods.
I do believe in putting wj on the ground but I also like to leave a few for cover and browse.
In a moderately stocked stand of 30 trees/acre wj will extract 2 inches of soil water in a dry year and 5.6 inches in a wet year. So if your in an area that has a 14 inch average rainfall, a 20% canopy cover of wj can result in a loss of 2.5-3 inches of precipitation annually.
Managing western juniper enchroachment is a big part of my job so I'm always interested in any information about that species.
Your dead on about improving the flow from natural springs.
Also, western juniper can be a critical browse for big game and they're really using it this winter in my neck of the woods.
I do believe in putting wj on the ground but I also like to leave a few for cover and browse.
Califelkslayer
Long Time Member
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Interesting! Why the spread of Juniper and decrease in sage and bitterbrush??? I'm just curious.
robinsg61le
Active Member
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Where I live in Harney County has been hit hard with snow. Our local Cyote flyer reports seeing many more deer trapped in the mountains this winter than in winters past.
Most of us agree that this is the harshest winter since 92-93, which clearly took its toll on animal numbers.
I believe it would be wishful thinking to say that everything will be just fine. I look for a fairly dramatic decrease in animal numbers. That doesn't mean that hunting will be bad either... Especially for trophy hunters. The mature bucks in the 3-8 year range should have the best chance of survival.
Most of us agree that this is the harshest winter since 92-93, which clearly took its toll on animal numbers.
I believe it would be wishful thinking to say that everything will be just fine. I look for a fairly dramatic decrease in animal numbers. That doesn't mean that hunting will be bad either... Especially for trophy hunters. The mature bucks in the 3-8 year range should have the best chance of survival.
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scoutdog5
Guest
Robin, unfortunately, there aren't many 3-8 year old bucks in most units. ODF&W absolutely depends on decent fawn crops to provide some bucks for the 74,000 mule deer hunters in Oregon. Could be big trouble in 2008.
Scoutdog
Scoutdog
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huntindude
Guest
True story, can you imagine how much better our hunting would be if guys could just bring themselves to let those yearlings go.
As if Oregon deer hunting wasn't bad enough many units will be worse this year and even some guys who would pass on forkies will shoot a spike . what do you want to bet ODFW doesn't cut tags much at all, they have a budget and X amount of tags will be sold somewhere. drives me nuts.
As if Oregon deer hunting wasn't bad enough many units will be worse this year and even some guys who would pass on forkies will shoot a spike . what do you want to bet ODFW doesn't cut tags much at all, they have a budget and X amount of tags will be sold somewhere. drives me nuts.
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huntindude
Guest
Monument is lower elevation than I am and the snow has been gone for weeks here, it's around 4000 feet now before you have any snow in Crook county anyway.
