Spike hunts running concurrent with Big bull hunts

BlueMountainAdventures

BlueMountainAdventures

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Hey guys, just want to get everyones input on this issue.

I dont get why ODFW has 2 spike hunts in the trophy units. One of them runns at the same time as big bull hunts. Lets see, a hunter waits 10-15 years for a good bull tag with only 20-50 tags available, he starts hunting and there are 300-400 spike hunters runing around everywhere!?
I know alot of you just want to hunt and see big bulls, even though all you got is a spike tag. But lets look dee into this. My opinion alot of spike hunting groups apply individualy for big bull tag. 1-2 guys in the group get it every year. Rest of them get spike tags. A hunter with a spike tag sees a huge bull, dumps him, big bull tag slapped on it, and they think they are good. Next year same thing.....I know this for a fact!
As a guide and Outfitter I have guys brag to me about that while I am out hunting. They dont know I am a guide though.
So, here is my thoughts....Big bull hunts first season, spike hunters second season! PERIOD. Give the hunters that have waited a decade or more a good quality hunting experience!

INPUT INPUT INPUT

I am going to go to the commision meeting is Salem in June and present this.
 
I doubt they will reduce the "opportunity" since that's why those spike hunts are there. If you can shift the spike hunts to a different date, they may go for it.
 
+1 Bob,

I am one of the lucky ones that gets to dump a spike this year. Only because my Dad drew his bull tag and I want to hunt with him and do what I can to help him get a big bull. If a spike gets in my way, then I fill my freezer. If not, oh well. Number 1 reason is getting Dad a big bull. I could come home empty and be happy. Bob, you are so correct on your theory of the people drawing 1 bull tag and its first come first serve with his spike hunting buddies. Saw it myself in 07 when I had my tag. Good thing my Dad is competent enough to kill his own bull and doesn't have to rely on his spike hunting buddies, which seems to be the norm in the area.

What I dont get is with the other opportunities to hunt in that area, people draw tags to hunt spikes.....to me that seems more like a camping trip more than a hunting trip. IMO..... There are lots of units that a guy can hunt every other year and kill a branch bull,,,,,,if they get out of their truck!


DO AWAY WITH SPIKE HUNTS PERIOD!
 
I guess this is over my head, how does having a spike hunt help with older muature bulls when your killing the krop of up and coming bulls....

why not make it a general hunt...
 
A few reasons to keep spike hunts:
1. ODFW needs $ to manage wildlife.
2. Spike and branch bull hunters should not be bumping into each other. At least I know where I would hunt in that unit and no spike or buck hunter would be there.
3. Pressure on spikes may keep them from doing any breeding. That is if any spike was brave enough to be around a herd of cows and a cow let him breed her. Study has been done in Starkey Experimental Forest.
4. We don't need to add anymore pressure to our wildlife by moving the dates of the spike hunts.
5. It will be interesting to see with the mandatory reporting, but I would assume very few spikes are taken in Mt. Emily during archery season. These allows opportunity with little success.

At some point everyone will have to understand we will not all get our way or be happy as a whole. An example is some like ATV's; while others would like to see them banned. The same goes for people who can no longer hike into deep holes to hunt big bulls. At some point we all will have to face the fact that our bodies will not always take us into the best hunting areas. We should just enjoy being able to get outdoors to hunt and enjoy nature. The same goes for professional athletes who can not play at those levels till their 90 years old. At some point you just have to accept the fact it will not be like in your younger years.

I think people who believe in science and the Starkey Experimental Forest would be for spike hunts. It seems like most hunters claim they want science when it comes to removing predators, but not when it comes to anything else. So which is it going to be? Do we really think we can convince ODFW and the Commission to use science for one thing and not another? Do we really think with the cost of things nowdays that ODFW can throw out all the hunts that hunters what; while still being able to do what they do?

I'm sure everyone thinks I'm for any doe and spike hunt and don't care how many tags they give out. I actually would like to see high quality units managed as really trophy units. I'm just trying to show people soem reasons why the department may do the things they do. I'm no expert, but try to keep up with what I can. Sure there needs to be some changes, but the bio's are doing what they can. There are a lot of factors out there that throw up hurdles for bio's to do their jobs and I think they handle it very well. Just my

Even if you stop all spike hunts, do we tell people they can no longer hunt deer during the archery season in those units? They could still shoot a bull and pack it out at night. What about bear and lion hunters? A poacher will always be a poacher. We can't say that ending spike hunts will end poaching in quality units.
 
Here are some thoughts from other people on an Oregon hunting website:

?Quantity over quality = complaints
Quality over quantity = complaints
ODFW decision making= complaints

How do we keep the current hunters interested and continue recruiting new hunters? That is the real question if we want to be hunting in Oregon in 20 years.......Will less opportunity grow more hunters and feed the consuming fire? No.
Quantity of opportunity is what the average guy wants. The ability to draw a tag and spend his 3.5 days of hard earned vacation time in the deer woods once a year. It is the average category that buys the majority of the tags.? Limbhanger

?Quality is what you make of the hunt. I know I want to hunt every year for deer and elk and if that means spike only then so be it. To say go for quantity that is what gets money for management and youth involved. It also keeps us old guys buying license and tags.

The Quality of the hunt is based on good friends and family in the woods doing what we love.? Old Soldier

?Here is something I believe we are going to have to deal with, if we really want to see an increase in our big game populations in the future ( I am obviously ignoring the impact of wolves for the purpose of this discussion).

I will use the Ochoco Unit for this discussion, but it is equally valid in virtually all of Eastern Oregon.

In 1965, there were the following seasons in the Ochoco unit between August 1 and December 31:

Antelope.....7 days
Deer.........23 days
Elk.......... 16 days (I believe that is correct)

Total days of hunting between August 1 and December 31, 46 out of 153 days. During those days when hunting was not open, the woods were basically devoid of human activity, with the exception of a small amount of logging. Road densities were approximately 1 mile of road per square mile, with large unroaded areas throughout the unit.

In 2009:

Youth Elk Hunt No. 1..........7 days
Youth Elk Hunt No. 2.......153 days
Private land cow hunt......122 days
Rifle elk hunts..................23 days
Bow elk hunts..................30 days
Deer Rifle hunts...............12 days
Deer bow hunts...............30 days
Rifle antelope hunts.......... 9 days

Total days of hunting between August 1 and December 31, 153 of 153 days.

Add to that turkey hunting and shed hunting in the spring, a huge increase in non-hunting related recreational activities on the unit, road densities that exceed 3 miles of road per square mile in most parts of the unit, and it is no wonder our big game populations are in serious trouble.? scoutdog5
 
Blacktail,

How does having spike hunts pressure them not to breed when the rut is 99% over at the time of the rifle hunts? Just curious? Was doing the math and it didn't add up. Not saying you are wrong, just looking for a "scientific" explanation.

Trust me, I have hunted Walla Walla twice in the last five years and both times we were as deep as you can get and there were spike hunters. HMMMM, or as BMA said so correctly, were they just trying to fill their buddies big bull tag?
 
>Blacktail,
>
>How does having spike hunts pressure
>them not to breed when
>the rut is 99% over
>at the time of the
>rifle hunts? Just curious? Was
>doing the math and it
>didn't add up. Not saying
>you are wrong, just looking
>for a "scientific" explanation.
>
>Trust me, I have hunted Walla
>Walla twice in the last
>five years and both times
>we were as deep as
>you can get and there
>were spike hunters. HMMMM, or
>as BMA said so correctly,
>were they just trying to
>fill their buddies big bull
>tag?

I'm talking about spike hunters in those units during the archery season. I'm not sure about Walla Walla, but I have been in the Wenaha and got away from ALL hunters very easily. I was in there with one of the raffle tag holders this past year. We had the whole place to ourselves it seemed like. Walla Walla I think may have more roads that can make it easier access for people. That may have been your problem. I have heard of other guys with that tag say they get away from people. I guess it changes day-to-day and year-to-year.
 
Archery/Rifle hunters dont kill many spikes in these units. Thats not the problem. Its the pressure and what it does to the big bulls in these units. Having spike hunters running at same time as big bull season condones poaching.

When I report a party hunting kill OSP tells me "sorry, we have to catch them in the act" so, thus my thinking of having all the spike hunters competing with each other, AFTER the big bull season is over. We can NEVER eliminate poaching, but why make it easier for them, and give Oregon a good name for Quality Bull hunts. We got the bulls, genes and country, now we just need common sence management for wildlife, not managing for $$$$.

Look at Oregons deer herds. Case in point as far as Biologists Knowledge of situations is concerned.
 
Wow, I didn't think that anyone in their right mind would buy a general archery tag to hunt spike only when a guy can drive a couple hours south or east and have a much better hunt. I can see a few buddies getting general archery tags to hunt with a buddy that drew the big bull tag. Basically a caller until they come across a spike. But are there actually people who do an all mighty spike hunt? Imagine all the nice bulls those spike hunters call in and they can't shoot! Talk about a di*k tease! That's like going to the whore house and forgetting your wallet at home.

Best thing would be to do away with the archery general tag and move the rifle spike tags to the week after the big bull hunt like BMA suggested. This whole damn state is pretty much open to general archery, no legit reason to have the big three units open to spike only. And as far as the pressure thing on the spikes for not breeding. There are enough big bulls in those units that that spike is gonna earn that cow he might get the chance to breed. Personally, I dont see this happening. He would have too many horn holes in his arse to figure out what to do next.

Bob, you are asking for a lot if you want common sense in ODFW. Remember, these people have degrees from college so they know best:)Most of them think they are on another level than us hunters who see the real damage being done. I will take common sense over book smart any day!
 
I agree that they should be broke up its not going to reduce any ones chances and it will keep people honest.

If there is any proof of a man in a hunt it is not whether he killed a deer or elk but how he hunted it.
 
I any of you happened to speak or listen at the HUNTER HEARING at the Capitol in Salem this past winter; then you would know most hunters think common sense is research and science. Every hunter that spoke at that "HUNTER HEARING" to our House Reps told them we want science and research to manage our wildlife. Where were all of you when that happened? Do you not agree with the rest of the hunters in this state? Not to mention about every hunting organization from Oregon was there and stated the same thing. I think the few of you on this board are going to have a hard time changing the minds of other hunters and hunting organizations.
 
Blacktail,
Guess I was busy working and missed that meeting. We can all see that you are touting "science". Explain what their Scintific research has done right so far?? You keep harping SCIENTIFIC & RESEARCH.......lol, ya..uh huh fly over 1-2 times a year.....thats their research. I was just up in Starkey Exp forest.....5 bulls out of 29 tags......PRIME hunting weather.....is that a REAL scientific study? HELL NO!!!!!

Oh ya.....most of their FLY OVERS have been canceled lest few years, due to budgets. So, they just drive around and do a POD (probability of detection) and base EVERYTHING from that SCIENTIFIC study! $$$$EVERYTHING is going up BIG time for 2010. Get ready guys!

AGAIN.....anyone ever seen ODFW out hiking in the woods? I did this summer......a wolf study in Wenaha. THAT ONLY ONE EVER!
 
Would be really curious to know what the other states around Oregon do differently to manage their game. Is there a way we could sub out our game management to other states. Bet it would prevail.....no wonder I apply for points in five other states!
 
I was there

>I any of you happened to
>speak or listen at the
>HUNTER HEARING at the Capitol
>in Salem this past winter;
>then you would know most
>hunters think common sense is
>research and science. Every
>hunter that spoke at that
>"HUNTER HEARING" to our House
>Reps told them we want
>science and research to manage
>our wildlife. Where were
>all of you when that
>happened? Do you not
>agree with the rest of
>the hunters in this state?
> Not to mention about
>every hunting organization from Oregon
>was there and stated the
>same thing. I think
>the few of you on
>this board are going to
>have a hard time changing
>the minds of other hunters
>and hunting organizations.


If there is any proof of a man in a hunt it is not whether he killed a deer or elk but how he hunted it.
 
I hunted the Mount Emily last year for branch bulls and I ran into a man that was at full draw on a 6 point I was following. Turned out he didn't have the branch tag his hunting partner did and there were 4 guys in that party and only 1 guy had the tag. Got in a very heated discussion and it nearly became a blue mountain butt whupping for him. OSP was notified but like said before,,they have to catch them in the act.
 
CASE IN POINT! Eliminating Archery spike hunting and moving the Rifle spike hunters to the week after rifle big bull hunt will HELP this party hunting. But not only that, its all the added pressure on the big bulls that ruins it for guys who wait 10+ years for the tag.

Guys! Lets get a petition going to get this changed. Anyone interested in this email me. bob@#####.com.
Leave me phone number, address and name and a statement that you support getting this changed.

Time somebody does something about this. I will work on this after hunting season is over, and get the ball rolling.

Any help or input is well needed. Thanks!

Bob
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-03-09 AT 07:55PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-03-09 AT 07:51?PM (MST)

BMA you are wrong on a couple points.

#1 Some of us will wait 15+ years to hunt this once in a life time tag.

#2 There should not be a spike hunt in those areas PERIOD. The wolves will need something to eat.

#3 Another point you haven't factored in is what these "prime tags" will be like in 10-20 years. With the wolves, lack of predation control, stupid spike and cow hunts one better have 10 or more points or you ain't gunna have a trophy hunt. I'm guessing in about 5 years our beloved trophy units will be JUST LIKE IDAHO'S old trophy units.........VACANT OF GAME.........

If you don't believe me just talk to an Idaho old timer. Oregon is in terrible shape from muleys to elk and will only get worse having STUPID hunts during STUPID times and simply managing for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

ODFW needs to read a couple Game Management Manuals from let's say...just about any other state. Most have trophy elk and deer...what does Oregon have?????...I'm not sure.

I hope you got my sarcasm BMA.

HK
 
ODFW says that those three units are not managed for trophy quality. The tags are limited because of low population poor calf recuitment. In the experimental forest at one time all the mature bulls were removed and only spikes were left and the rut lasted for 75 days with few cows being bread, compared to 30 something days with mature bulls and a much higher percentage of cows being bread. Read this at one point on the experimental forest web site. As far as people hunting for a spike during archery/rifle season what a good way to learn what the animals do when pressured. I drew Mt Emily archery tag this year and I wish I had been there a couple times during previous seasons. I was putting in for Walla Walla and was planning to scout this way. If you are close to drawing the big bull tag I recommend it. Or you can just hire Bob or John and let them find the bulls for you. In Mt Emily this year I saw a ton of people not all hunting, but a lot of people grouse or bear hunting should this be limited to? I know I was getting tired of hearing shots. I did see one spike in the back of somebodys truck not for sure where it was killed. I did get a 250ish 6x6.
 
Bugle,
I am not implying eliminate every hunt going on at same time as big bull hunt. But I think you know what I am meaning. I was up on Mt Emily 2 evenings glassing.....saw 49 bulls. from spikes to 380". Not many were spike hunting up there last season.....snow scared most of them off the Mountain. Headed up to camp tomorrow till end of season, so be curious how many of our hunts/stalks will be ruined by a spike hunter going down same ridge in dark with a flash light hunting the hell holes for a "spike".
 
Even if spike hunts are moved; poachers could say they are hunting lions, bears, or yotes. Do you really think changing the spike hunts will change anything? I don't.
 
Sorry blacktail slayer, but eliminating or moving spike hunts during the archery season would help eliminate some of the poaching...and some of the frustration we face when hunting a once in a life time tag and having spike "hunters" running all over the place. It is absolutely STUPID to have those hunts at the same time. And if you want to scout, do it preseason. Using the spike hunt for scouting IMO is being rude to the few guys who actually drew their tag after waiting 13+ years.

HK
 
The only way to fix the problem is to remove the over educated idiots in charge of making these decisions. Oregon should have terrific trophy hunting opportunites and yet the DOF&W continues to screw it up. Lets also remove the rifle hunts durring the archery season which are numerous and even run durring the trophy archery hunts.... It is just plain ignorant!
 
I meant to write this on the my original post but forgot. I agree the spike hunters should not be out there the same time as bug bull hunters during rifle season, the big bull tag should be the longer of the two seasons but should come before the spike season. I personally if hunting spike only would not put much effort into hunting down in some of those canyons and would do what ever I could to help a hunter who did draw the tag fill it. During archery season since there is only 1 season it would be tougher to seperate the 2. But maybe at least limit the time a spike hunter could be in the unit like they have down in a couple area with traditional bow they can hunt some areas for the first week then compounds are let in but only make so you could only hunt a spike the first week and that is it. That will never happen though. At least if you are going to hunt/scout leave your calls in the truck or camp dont try running the elk around so you can see the bull that is bugling. Be courtious to the hunters who did draw. And ask yourself if you would want people doing what you are doing when you draw the tag. If you dont want people to ruin your hunt by chasing or calling to the elk dont ruin theirs. Now that I dont have any points to draw any of these tags for awhile I would like everybody who has points put in for something easy to draw like silver lake or tioga or any archery cow tag that will eat up points so I can draw again quicker. PLEASE
 
Bugle,

VERY well said. I was thinking of spike archery hunters first two weeks of season. Come on guys, lets be honest.....you that spike hunt in the trophy units do it to see or even shoot a BIG bull. YOU DO NOT GO THERE TO KILL A SPIKE!!!!
 
Spike hunts before the "big bull" hunts is even more stupid. Seriously guys think like a poacher and you'll realize how stupid it is to give one guy a "big bull" tag and his buddy a spike tag that runs two weeks earlier. Eliminate the spike tags in those 3 units and start some spike only tags in other units where we don't have many breeder bulls. Those 3 units are going down fast and the "spike hunters" are not helping.

Just say NO to spike hunts!

HK
 
Does anybody ever go to the odfw public input meetings in your area? I used to until I got into my plumbing apprenticeship and had class on tuesday nights. All the meetings in my area were on tuesdays when they had them I plan on starting again now that I am done with class. The more people's voices herd about this we might be able to get it stopped not real likely but anything is possible. Mt emily 1210 tags, Wenaha 660 tags. Walla Walla 660 for a total of 2530 tags all for spike rifle hunts and archery tags are unlimited. Sad for some to maybe lose an opportunity to hunt but that is way to many tags for spikes. Let our voices be herd!
 
hey bugle2me,

seen your plumbing:-(, should start that apprenticeship over!!!:)
 
Bull n rut

Looks who's talkin I've seen yours too! What's your number? Oh yes be sure to let your dad judge his own bull. If it looks 320 probablly only 280 :) Good luck should be a good hunt
 
My opinion, the poaching arguement aside, the bull season should be a quality hunt. I've considered the Snake Unit because I have enough points, you can get away from folks and I prefer horse hunts cause to me thats elk huntin. Why haven't I hunted it??????? The spike season right before it.

I fully support having the bull season first!!!!!!!!
 
I didn't bother reading every single post on the line, so pardon me if this has already been said....

I completely agree in seperating spike/mature bull hunters in the selected trophy units in NE Oregon. Both in Bow/Rifle seasons. I don't live in the area or guide there, but the time that was spent noticed a large contingency of people who say they love to hunt there every year to chase the bulls around. I ran into several known shady suspects that my buddy identified as being on the wrong side of the law and several parties hunting with one bull tag. Is there a large problem, absolutely but until ODFW changes thier thinking on opportunity vs. quality it's worthless.

My personal feeling on the matter:

Bow Season: 1st two weeks open to spike hunting in selected units, after that is big bull only tag. There are plenty of neighboring units all over the state that allow any elk if that's what people want with archery.

Rifle: Seperate the two hunts in either fashion letting the big bull first or last in the mix.

Waiting 10+ years means I'd like to have a quality hunt, not just the right to shoot a branch bull in the same worthless rat race everyone else is in and illegally participating in. This is the exact reason I still have my points, I'm waiting for something to change, until then I'll hunt out of state.

tc
 
What about 3 point and better state wide? Mule deer also... I am for it, whats your guys pros and cons? To me this gives these young bulls and bucks a chance to grow and learn.
 
PM sent back. So how were all the spike hunters? Any of them helpful? 3pt and better would not be a bad thing wish they would have done it a few years ago in some areas.
 
" VERY well said. I was thinking of spike archery hunters first two weeks of season. Come on guys, lets be honest.....you that spike hunt in the trophy units do it to see or even shoot a BIG bull. YOU DO NOT GO THERE TO KILL A SPIKE!!!! "

I know a cpl guys that have Archery hunted Wenaha continuously for decades. They now hunt spikes. When one ( or both) have branch tags, only the tag holder hunts the branch Bull.

Unfortunately BMA, your assertion that all spike hunters in these units are liars and poachers is off the mark. Not everybody party hunts.

(These 2 guys had 4 branch bull tags between them in 5 consecutive years)
 
The spike hunters definitely hurt the hunt. After Dad missed the big one opening morning, we screwed up and talked on our radios too much which won't happen again. Mine is the Rhino and it pinpoints where I am. Seen a spike in the same area as the big one and the next day we had six spike hunters and one big bull hunter join us that morning. The spike hunters and the branch hunter ran all over the hillside that day with people guiding them with radios the whole time. The spike hunters lasted about an hour and they gave up. I talked to these guys before daylight and told them we had two branch tags and had two good bulls in this area and to respect that and hunt elsewhere. But since most people have no idea how to hunt and have to use radios to find information, I knew we were in for a long week.

The branch tag hunter that jumped in front of us that morning, had his brother in law on the finger across from the hillside radio him around the elk for half a day til he was flat worn out. I told this idiot that you cannot go onto the same hillside as the elk in that brush and get one unless he runs you over or your Cameron Hanes. Told him he needed to shoot 4-500 yards across the canyon. He said he couldn't shoot that far....what a waste of a tag!!! The best part about it is that the brother in law using his radio to guide this guy to the elk was a damn cop....go figure!!! I made the comment over the radio that it was illegal to guide a hunter using a radio so they were very clever and change radio channels...Oh no, not like my scan won't find the new channel! That night I drove out to a canyon not far from camp right at dusk and radioed back to camp and asking my Dad if he sees those bulls on the opening, acting like we were bedding some down. He replied back and the bait was set....you guessed it, those idiots were hunting that canyon the next morning. They shot and wounded a small five point and never found it. Don't know how, I crossed the blood trail and he was leaving a silver dollar blood spot in the snow every three feet. The idiots gave up and went back to camp. I cruised over to their camp the next day to see if they were going to get back on the trail, and they were packed and gone!

We gave that area a day to settle down and then tried it again but mother nature let the snow fall and it snowed the rest of the time and you could not see 100 yards. That is a hard tag to eat!

I waited ten years for my tag and was successful but didn't have the weather we had this year but my Dad waited 12. Not worth it for the pressure and the BS a guy has to deal with on this type of hunt. I will get my chance again to hunt this area, but my Dad most likely won't. That's what pisses me off the most. So yes, confirmed, ready for spike hunts to just flat disappear or a least move. I think next year I will draw a spike tag and return the favor and hopefully when I screw up someones hunt, its a person that has done it himself...two wrongs = a right...sometimes!
 
Wapitibob.......thanks for putting words in my mouth. I NEVER said ALL spike hunters are poachers. That would be a bold and stupid statement. get your facts straight!
Or maybe I hit a nerve with you???
 
I'm sure everyone will jump all over me for asking this question, but can you elaborate more on the illegality of using a radio to guide someone toward an animal? I understand that it is illegal from an airplane, but am I to understand it is also illegal to ?radio guide? from a vantage point?
 
>Wapitibob.......thanks for putting words in my
>mouth. I NEVER said ALL
>spike hunters are poachers. That
>would be a bold and
>stupid statement. get your facts
>straight!
>Or maybe I hit a nerve
>with you???


i acually took it the same way, and dont know a single person who has ever had a spike tag for the big "4" units!
re- read your post and correct yourself if thats not what you meant! --- just saying.......
 
Ok, maybe I confused some of you. I am not implying that all or even most spike hunters kill big bulls for others. I do know groups that do this. And my point is eliminating the chance in these top units for this happen. Poachers are poachers. With a spike tag or shooting them in December. We can not, and will not EVER eliminate poaching, but reducing the opportunity to "poach" or "party hunt" will help ALOT! That was all I was trying to say. Sorry to confuse some of you.

Another note, Spike hunters ruined a few peoples Big bull hunts in Walla Walla and Mt Emily last week. I personally had my hunter 490 yards from a 370" class bull on opening morning, and had spike hunters skyline themselves an hour after daylight right behind us, and blew the bulls out of there. He had his crosshairs on the bull, but was shaking too bad to pull off that shot, so we were waiting for him to settle down, then BOOM.....the bulls took off! So, ya.....having 300-400 spike hunters chasing spikes at same time as big bull hunters that have waited 10-15 years to draw a tag is the DUMBEST thing ODFW has allowed in recent years!

Chris......tell about your Walla Walla experience.......
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-09 AT 10:33PM (MST)[p]It flat out sucked! I will never discuss anything over a radio again. People listen to these damn things on scan because they have no clue how to find elk themselves. Branch bull hunters and spike hunters both were the problem this year in Walla Walla. They look the part though, like they just bought out Cabelas with their accessories. In my post above I talked about guiding someone to elk with a radio. After thumbing through the synopsis, I can't find anything to support my biotch, just from an airplane...Guess I am wrong but IMO its not ethical. Guess I was taught to actually hunt, track, think like an elk, go where elk would go. Not oh, there are some elk 1000 yards away, guide me to them since I am not hunter enough to do it alone!

From an airplane or a high point across the canyon, it's the same thing!
 
Sorry, Hunter Bob but those weren't spike hunters and they also didn't scare off nearly as many elk as the guy who drove an atv out on the top of the mountain before daylight. Any idea who that could've been. I also think you need to learn how to judge animals because from what I hear it was a 320 bull not a 370 bull
 
So funny you should make that comment about Hunter Bob, Samuraished! I just sent him a pic text of a 340 bull my buddy got in montana and Bob knocked it out of the park. He guessed 340! Going going....gone!!! No BS and that was a little cell phone....LMFAO :p
 
Ya, I was on an ATV headed out a ridge while rest of the world was in bed! Lets see, I got up at 2:30 am, so to make sure not to spook my bull I was watching. I dont care what bulls I scared taking the atv out there, cause I was not hunting those bulls. I live with the elk, and dont just "hunt elk", I hunt "THE BULL". And correct, there was a 315-320 bull in there too, but he was not a shooter. Dont know who you are, and dont really care. I know elk, deer and bear. My business speaks for itself. You got to get up early to beat me out there!

Bull_n_rut, thanks man for the pics and the reply! You know me fairly well, but not enough to take sides. You just say it the way it is! See you in Portland?
 
Ok, so if Hunter Bob can judge animals, then that must mean he's trying to fill everyone full of bs. It's one or the other. Don't forget there was other people there. How do you think the customers felt that were being told that there's so many huge bulls running around and then one goes home with a 280 bull and the other goes home empty handed. Doesn't sound like the business is doing to much talking. Here's an idea, maybe Hunter Bob should tell it for what it is and people might have a little more respect. Oh, and I also don't see how getting out of bed that early makes 370 bulls appear on the hillside, unless lack of sleep makes it where you can't see clearly
 
Well, for one......I cant pull the trigger on the 370 bull for him. He had him in his crosshairs! You seem to know alot, so call him and ask him how big BIG really is.
Oh ya, another thing.....gov tag holder has talked to several people that has seen that bull, they all said 370-380, so I guess I am pretty damn close! In two evenings before season started, I saw 49 bulls. several of those were 330-380.
Sorry you are bitter towards me. I do my best to provide good hunts. I cant make EVERYONE happy.

If you are THAT intersted in tearing me apart on here, tell me your reasoning! I have ALOT of people that were up there that know me, and they can ALL verify everything.

(FYI......it was bigger than 280)
 
Hey Samuraished, why don't you just politely say your beef with Bob and quit beatin' around the bush. He's a professional, he'll probably answer your questions. A lot of people think they see big bulls in there but they never seem to kill them....
 
+1 Drannan

Sami, don't know what your deal is, but lets get it off your chest. You will feel better when you talk about it. Two sides to every story, so grow a pair and start your story! :) Lets see what kind of credibility you have to back up your scoring ability...please...curiosity is killing me!!!
 
Bob with all the outfitters tags for the three trophy tag units post pictures.Iam sure with all 330 to 380 bull you know of you must have a lot to pictures and stories to tell.
 
Yes, I have some pics of big bulls. I rarely get Outfitter tags in these units though. I have to compete against other outfitters for the one tag every other year given to one of us.
Alot of you dont have a clue how the outfitter tag system and USFS permits works. Its not like you think.....
 
i know one thing, SAMURAISHED does know mt emily VERY WELL, in fact i have a pic or two of a big dead bull,that he was a major part of getting on the ground, on my computer- obviously i wont post it without permission. and he knows how to find them big sheds!


now BLUEMTN, lets see those pics:)
 
Guiding illegal huh? How come that is no suprise! What pics? you can look at my website. Will be updated later this year. I know a few shed hunters, I am too busy guiding Spring bear hunters that time of year. Shed hunting is alot of fun! I saw two big bull sheds last week while glassing bulls. One was a triple eye guard bull. Still down there....

I am not doubting Samuraished skills or ability. None of my business....he started in on me. For what??? Guiding in "his" honey holes? Sorry, but I guide LEGAL!

I knew one of you guys that were "guiding" in there would get all riled up on here! BINGO!

Its ok, cause I dont have to be hush-hush or constantly looking over my shoulder! I have nothing to worry about. I am licensed, permitted, Insured & Bonded.

Get over it "Michael Peterson" I guide all over NE Oregon, nothing you can do about that. We are here to provide a "LEGAL" service to those that want to go with a guide.
 
Bob, first of all I'll apologize for attacking you like I did. Second, I have helped put some big bulls on the ground but I don't really consider it guiding when the hunters are my dad, brother, uncle and cousin all on seperate years. I could go on and on about how I know the area so well or the size of the bulls my family has killed but I'm not trying to make myself look better than you. I have no problem with you guiding up there. I wish you the best with it. The problem I do have is that your trying to make it something its not. You are going to get business no matter what, simply because there are people that are going to draw the tags that aren't lucky enough to be able to learn the area on their own. There is no reason to throw out these rediculous numbers. I would think it would be better for you to tell it how it is and then your hunters can have a better experience. Then people will respect you and your business more. I have sat on those same points and seen large numbers of bulls, im not doubting you on that. But it might be easier to believe the rest if you just said you saw several 330 bulls. You are in a lucky position where you get to spend time in the hills and get paid for it. People believe what you say. So with that comes the responsibility of showing some honesty and integrity and being a REPUTABLE guide.
 
Thanks, apology accepted. I dont over hype it. I tell people my true thoughts. Like.....I rather have a Mt Emily bull tag, versus Wenaha. Why? Maybe cause I know Mt Emily better, but after being in Wenaha alot this past hunting season, we only saw a handfull of bulls over 330". Up on those glassing points you mentioned today.....saw 6 bulls. One was a big topped 345-350 bull, that had weak fronts and weak G-3. If you have glassed this as much as you seem to have, you will know this bull. I have seen him 3 times. I have not seen that 370" bull for awhile.

As you have stated, I live in these units. Lucky enough to spend more time up there than most people. I will be up there again tomorrow.

Please feel free to contact me, maybe we can go up there together sometime. I know you dont want to hear it, but Mt Emily is still my favorite big bull unit in Oregon.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-23-09 AT 09:43PM (MST)[p]"Please feel free to contact me, maybe we can go up there together sometime. I know you dont want to hear it, but Mt Emily is still my favorite big bull unit in Oregon."




Ahhhh, man love:) See guys it all works out in the end when we try to get along....just don't be renaming any mountains up there after a certain one in Wyoming:7

Now back to the spike issue....Bob, what do we have to do to wake up ODFW on this?
 
Chris, I thought you were going to start Guiding? You said something about calling your outfitt something like "BROKE BACK MOUNTAIN OUTFITTING"???? lol

Seriously, I wanted as many people that are interested, to contact me so I can get a list going of hunters that want spike/big bull dates fixed. So spread the word, maybe you guys can get a contact list with phone numbers of people that support this. I am sure alot of people will oppose this idea.
 
That's it! I couldn't think of the name of that movie. So you seen it huh? :)

Guiding would be my dream job. Hopefully I will test the waters with you someday. This year would of been perfect except for the little guy being born right before bow season and my Dad having a Walla tag.

I will do some word spreading and see what I can dig up on this side of the mountain.
 
LOL......no.....didnt see it!

Its a good job, but has its moments. Ya, spread the word! Looked at the 2010 Regs.....no big changes so far. But that can change this spring. Year round cougar hunting statewide! Yay.....thats what, 2 more cougars killed now?
 
Surprise, it's like ODFW strives to protect the cougars from the deer and elk. I ran into an ODFW guy at coast when fishing. He asked if we caught anything. Told him no and he proceeded to tell me that he hadn't checked a single silver all day. I asked him if he had any explanation why nobody was catching fish.... Silence....I told him he better have an early retirement set up cause pretty soon they will be managing seals, cougars, and wolves. I said that might take about five people and to just keep managing himself right out of a job. He didn't like me very much:)
 

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