Starkey Experimental forest

N

nvmuley

Active Member
Messages
450
Is this a good hunt for deer? For elk?
It sure takes a lot of points to draw.

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Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.
 
It is a state wildlife that was high fenced as a research project with RMEF and ODFW. It has some good deer and elk, but like I said it is high fence.

Rich
 
Yes it is a high fence hunt but you can hunt all day without seeing a fence. 40 sq miles if you count the winter feed area. There are some good deer in there but you have to get away from all the elk to find them. I would say there are some 180-190 bucks in there but they cut down the hunt to five days for deer. As for elk they had a rifle hunt for the first time in years last year but i never heard what was taken.
 
So it sounds like a quality hunting experience without to many restrictions or hassles.
As to the high fence, at least 40 sq. miles is a pretty large area. The animals are wild.


thanks

----------------------------------------
Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.
 
yes it isn't by no means a give me hunt but they are there. You also have to agree to wear a tracking system on your person and they watch you hunt from a mother board and see how some of the collared animals react to your presence by foot and atv. You can go to the web site a look at some of the results of their studies. Oh by the way the record books won't let you enter any animals taken inside because of the fence. have a good day.
 
> Oh by
>the way the record books
>won't let you enter any
>animals taken inside because of
>the fence. have a good
>day.

YEP! doesn't matter if it is 40sq. miles it is a high fence hunt. you can do one every year in texas with no points. and there are ranches in texas that are twice as big to do it on. but to each his own, if your into hunting game farms, go for it.
 
Far from a game farm, You telling me killerb that you are to good to hunt the experimental forest if given a chance? give me a break. You must be trying to get on with the eastman's journal or something. LOL
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-07-09 AT 06:05PM (MST)[p]nope, just in the eyes of B&C or P&Y. it doesn't matter how big the fence is. 1 acre or 400sq.miles, it's still a high fence. as long as when your telling your great hunting story it ends with" in the high fenced area" you wont get people as excited as if it wasn't.
oh and i absolutly would NOT hunt there if i had to draw the tag with my points. i believe i could easily draw it right now and there is no way i would burn my points on a "HIGH FENCED HUNT" doesn't matter how big of a bull i could kill. i'd drop down to a lower level of tags first. if you call that being to good,so be it.
i'm not saying their tame, there are huge high fenced areas in texas that are way bigger,their not tame there either. but if you dont like the idea of one of them,then your sure as heck cant stand up for the other--right?
 
From what I've been told from hunters that have hunted it, the elk are harder to hunt than free ranging elk. And your not gauranteed a bull!

Who cares about the record book, it means nothing!
 
>From what I've been told from
>hunters that have hunted it,
>the elk are harder to
>hunt than free ranging elk.
>And your not gauranteed a
>bull!
>
>Who cares about the record book,
>it means nothing!


funny how you compair them to "FREE RANGING ELK"
their not, once again- i'm not saying its a gimme at all. i'm saying if you are against "HIGH FENCED HUNTS" this is one. just because you draw it in a regular state offerd draw system doesn't make it different. they could put axis deer,orex,ibex,wild hogs, whatever. it's o.k. because it's behind a fence..........
 
From what I've been told killing a bull in the Weneha, Walla Walla, and Mt.Emily units is easier than the Exp. Forest!

Killerb would you hunt on a privste ranch?
 
Killerbee I believe I recall seeing your elk you posted last year. maybe a fence hunt would do yuou some good. We won't tell!!
 
killerbee, ODFW dosen't plant animals inside the exp forest in fact they do the opposite. They release herd bulls out into the national forest for breeding and after that maybe some hero like yourself might have a chance at taking something other than a satalite bull. Later, have a great day.
 
>From what I've been told killing
>a bull in the Weneha,
>Walla Walla, and Mt.Emily units
>is easier than the Exp.
>Forest!
>
>Killerb would you hunt on a
>privste ranch?


as long as it WASN"T high fenced yes.big difference. i guided in new mexico anc colorado for 9 yrs.mostlyu on private ranches. there were plenty of times are ranches were DEAD. meaning horrible hunting cause the elk just wern't there at the time. thats not possible on a high fenced area.
 
>Killerbee I believe I recall seeing
>your elk you posted last
>year. maybe a fence hunt
>would do yuou some good.
>We won't tell!!


you must be a helluva big bull slayer, i'd love to see your pics.
 
sorry, i reply'd with a couple quotes and it moved them up the list a ways.
dont confuse me not agreeing with high fence hunting with me thinking i'm super hero hunting guy.
WANTED yes,sure, hunt a box cayon if you wish, i would or an island. THE ANIMALS CAN LEAVE! [well i dont know about some islands] but if the animals can leave they are free ranging,you dont need to compare them to hunbting "regular" elk. they ARE regular elk.
i dont even dissagree with the starkey exp forest. but i dont think it should be included in are regular draw for are preference points. but if they are doing an experiment then they would need to manage the herd. great. and good on anyone who hunts there. but please dont try and pass it off as a great wilderness/public land hunt. it's simply not.
you can try and justify it anyway you want.to each his own. or you could turn it into a personal bashing thread[like the dipsh%t nascar88, by the way if you would ever like to compare hunting pics let me know.] but i'm not bashing anyone, just stating a fact. LOTS of people don't realize that it is in fact a non-excepted hunt for B&C/P&Y. and it doesn't matter to me if your into the books or not. but it is what is excepted as "fair chase" and like i said before. to each their own,but if you dont like the texas canned hunts,you can in no way agree with this one either.
 
I was trying to give NVMuley some info about the exp forest and you jump in and start talking about some texas can hunt. What does that have to do with what we have going on in Oregon? Oregon dosen't even compare to the junk hunts they have in Texas where they bring in animals to put behind the fence. just remember don't apply for the surrounding units either because you know how far a elk can travel and I would't want you taking a bull that even had a chance of growing old behind that big bad fence.
 
I'm dead set against high fence hunts, and I'm a B&C O/M so I also agree with with the fair chase concept. BUT the Starkey Forest isn't a run of the mill canned hunt, you can't hunt the fence, there are areas you can't hunt and you have no baits or other advantages.

B&C if pressured might consider it , they allow bison off Custer Park to be entered and it's about the same thing, but I don't think enough book class animals come off Starkey to matter. I see both sides of this debate, but the fact is the Starkey hunt is a true fair chase hunt in all aspects, the fence is just a technicality not a tool in this case.
 
I agree, A out of state hunter I believe from Mississippi took a nice 9x7 years ago out of the exp forest that would of been a pretty high score but other than that I think most bucks taken are in teh 160-175 class.
 
Thanks for all the comments and replies. It's nice to see we can debate and not hate each other :) It seems like a pretty fair chase hunt, considering everything. The area is large enough that it does not seem to restrict animal movement during the hunt. They are wild animals. Not fed special diets. Yes, it's behind high fences, but what about tracts of land circled by highways and housing developments? They seem almost fenced in or somewhat landlocked.

Just for talk: what about exclusive private land hunts or exclusive reservation hunts that exist just for the wealthy? This seriously restricts hunter competition. Fair chase? Fair opportunity? This does not meet MY OWN PERSONAL criteria for a fair chase hunt. It amounts to money buying the chance at record book animal. And please don't think I'm knocking it, I'm not saying it's wrong. I do not want to downplay another hunter accomplishment. But shouldn't fair chase also means fair opportunity at a chance to hunt?
What about private lands with feed crops put in just to attract wildlife? Fair chase?
Sometimes things are just not black and white.



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Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.
 
NASCAR88 WROTE:I was trying to give NVMuley some info about the exp forest and you jump in and start talking about some texas can hunt. What does that have to do with what we have going on in Oregon? Oregon dosen't even compare to the junk hunts they have in Texas where they bring in animals to put behind the fence. just remember don't apply for the surrounding units either because you know how far a elk can travel and I would't want you taking a bull that even had a chance of growing old behind that big bad fence.



nascar, first off your a f-ing idiot. once again, just cause i dont agree with high fenced hunts doesn't mean i'm calling myself a super hunter, and i will hunt anyware in this state i'm allowed wether you like it or not.
if your trying to give out helpful information to someone you might consider not leaving out the tiny,very small detail that it is behind a fence. would you feel like an idiot if he drew a tag and came over to hunt to find this out later? you probably feel it enough you wouldn't know it.

funny how you act like that little ol' fence does absolutly nothing. so if the fence wasn't there do you still think it would be the quality hunt it is now? seems to me that on the "other"side of the fence you were just complaining the other day about how "horrible"the hunting was. then the tag would only take the 3 points that a regular starky tag takes to draw , not the 5-6 the exp. forest takes. am i wrong?
 
i just re-read the post and if you could fill me in on WHERE i called it a "canned" hunt i would appriciate it. really , from what i read, i've said over and over again that they WERE NOT tame. but i guess i could see how you would confuse the two.
but on another topic, Nascar88 weren't you going to post up a couple pics of all your big bulls you've killed? for some reason i'm guessing probably not.
 
HUNTINGDUDE WROTE:
I'm dead set against high fence hunts, and I'm a B&C O/M so I also agree with with the fair chase concept. BUT the Starkey Forest isn't a run of the mill canned hunt, you can't hunt the fence, there are areas you can't hunt and you have no baits or other advantages.
B&C if pressured might consider it , they allow bison off Custer Park to be entered and it's about the same thing, but I don't think enough book class animals come off Starkey to matter. I see both sides of this debate, but the fact is the Starkey hunt is a true fair chase hunt in all aspects, the fence is just a technicality not a tool in this case.


sorry for the copy and paste, i seem to screw up the "reply with quote"
anyway, i dont believe b&c could even consider allowing it IMO. for an organization they have to have a black and white line to go by. even if some dont consider this a high fenced hunt , there is still a high fence. the can of worms that would open would be to big. and there is no way anyone can say that fence dont matter. look at the other units around there. do any of them have the same quality of hunts? no. thats the difference between a highfence/game farm and free ranging elk. there is no way to garentee bulls get to a certain age, or how many animals get killed by wounding,cats etc... on the exp. forest all of that is VERY well followed and hunts adjusted accordingly. i know f&g try do do it on all units but we all know they cant. like NASCAR88 said" you where a tracking device so they can see where you go and how the animals react" tell me thats just a technicality? it's not
 
I personally wouldn't hunt it. Even if it is harder than a wilderness back country hunt. Hunting is more than high fence's, score books, and trophy's. Ive been archery hunting in Oregon since I was 15, im 22 now. Ive only killed one elk, and that was a cow, back when we could hunt cows, where I hunt. Ive seen some VERY big bulls all on public land during my hunting career. If someone told me that I could kill the biggest bull of my life in that enclosure, not because it's a high fence, but because of pure genetics's and herd numbers, I still wouldn't do it. I would rather kill a 300 bull on public land, than a 400 bull in the enclosure anyday. Hunting is more to me than the trophy, it's the experience. When I look at the antler's on my wall, im remembered of that hunt everyday. What happened, who I was with, everything. If I had a bull on my wall from the enclosure, I would alway's be reminded that yeah, it is a big bull, but it was in a high fence. I couldn't get the same satisfaction out of a high fence hunt I can from a free ranging hunt.
 
40 sq miles with some of it off limits is hardly what a normal high fence hunt is like. as I said I'm against high fence hunts, but this is so large with so few hunters the fence would have little or no impact on your hunt. there is a time to be a good sportsman and there's a time you sound like a nit wit for taking it too far.

B&C probably won't take up this case because nobody cares, but the Custer bison hunt IS in a fenced area but the club has concluded it is a fair chase hunt and allows it. this hunt like the starkey hunt is in a lagre area, with very limited pressure so animal movement is pretty much uneffected.

I very much support B&C's high fence policy, and I don't belong to SCI because of theirs. but keep the debate where it belongs, on high fence hunts not on public land huge enclosures with a handful of hunters. technically high fence? yes? fair chase? yes as well and nobody should have to make any excuses for this hunt.
 
>I personally wouldn't hunt it.
>Even if it is harder
>than a wilderness back country
>hunt. Hunting is more
>than high fence's, score books,
>and trophy's. Ive been
>archery hunting in Oregon since
>I was 15, im 22
>now. Ive only killed one
>elk, and that was a
>cow, back when we could
>hunt cows, where I hunt.
> Ive seen some VERY
>big bulls all on public
>land during my hunting career.
> If someone told me
>that I could kill the
>biggest bull of my life
>in that enclosure, not because
>it's a high fence, but
>because of pure genetics's and
>herd numbers, I still wouldn't
>do it. I would
>rather kill a 300 bull
>on public land, than a
>400 bull in the enclosure
>anyday. Hunting is more
>to me than the trophy,
>it's the experience. When
>I look at the antler's
>on my wall, im remembered
>of that hunt everyday.
>What happened, who I was
>with, everything. If I had
>a bull on my wall
>from the enclosure, I would
>alway's be reminded that yeah,
>it is a big bull,
>but it was in a
>high fence. I couldn't
>get the same satisfaction out
>of a high fence hunt
>I can from a free
>ranging hunt.

i couldn't agree more. i'll take my hard earned public land bull over ANY enclosed bull. JUST SO I DONT HAVE TO SAY" OH, BUT IT WAS IN A HIGH FENCE"...
 
>40 sq miles with some of
>it off limits is hardly
>what a normal high fence
>hunt is like. as I
>said I'm against high fence
>hunts, but this is so
>large with so few hunters
>the fence would have little
>or no impact on your
>hunt. there is a time
>to be a good sportsman
>and there's a time you
>sound like a nit wit
>for taking it too far.
>
>
> B&C probably won't take up
>this case because nobody cares,
>but the Custer bison hunt
>IS in a fenced area
>but the club has concluded
>it is a fair chase
>hunt and allows it. this
>hunt like the starkey hunt
>is in a lagre area,
>with very limited pressure so
>animal movement is pretty much
>uneffected.
>
> I very much support B&C's
>high fence policy, and I
>don't belong to SCI because
>of theirs. but keep the
>debate where it belongs, on
>high fence hunts not on
>public land huge enclosures with
>a handful of hunters. technically
>high fence? yes? fair chase?
>yes as well and nobody
>should have to make any
>excuses for this hunt.


i assume you have little to no knowledge of the size of some of the ranches in texas. the reason i bring up texas alot is obviously that is where high fenced hunting is most common.
block ranches of over 40sq.miles is not un-normal.
if you could answer one little question. if this fence has NO impact, why is the hunting so much better than ALL the surounding units?

just because i compare it to a texas high fence by no means means a 500 acre place, with everything from axes deer,hogs,anything you find in africa. the comparison is made based on these ranches that are BIGGER than 40sq.miles. strickly whietail hunting. they can manage age class,trophy quality,buck-to-doe ratio's. WHICH IS EXCACTLY WHAT THEY CAN DO ON THE STARKEY EXP. FOREST.


so highfence? yes, fair chase? no.

i would challenge anyone to put up this same post in the elk forum or general hunting. give just the facts. and see what 90% of hunters think of it. camo it all you would like to, it's still behind a fence. if you show me a picture of a 350"bull you kill in oregon i would be as excited as you on your kill. the minute you told me it was behind the fence the excitment would leave.

the great thing about the organizations that you represent is the fact that it is cut and dri,black and white. the animal must be harvested under FAIR CHASE and FREE RANGING conditions. it either is or it isn't. in this case it isn't. being an official measurer you know that. even if it's bigger than normal, it's still not free ranging.
can those animals migrats sometimes hundreds of miles to winter often to find a new home ground? nope, rest assured they'll be right there. can an early winter kill off 50% of the herd? nope, so closly regulated feed would be brought in. yes sometimes feed is brought in for wild animals too, but more often than not it = winter kill.
in an attempt to not beat it to death-- you either get it or you dont, your o.k. with it or your not. to each his own,if you decide to hunt it, more power to you. i won't loss any sleep at all tonight knowing people are hunting it. just do everyone a favor and TELL it along with the hunting story that it is a high fence. if you dont think anything is wrong with it, theres no reason to hide it.
the end- written by killerbee- man that was a long friekin post, and i really need a spell checker....
 
Killerbee I don't appreciate you calling Nascar88 an f-ing idiot on here and I know Founder won't either when he sees it. People on here disagree all the time without overt insults and F bombs. I like the arguments on here, I can usually learn something from both sides, but I like it that Founder bans people who can't play by the rules. If I want to hear that stuff I'll go down to the local high school playground and hang out with imature wannabe tough-guy punks, but on here I want witty, intelligent, and spirited debate.

Can anyone think of a decent buck or bull that has come out of the Exp Forest???? I can't and I know several people who have hunted it....I don't think there is any reason for B&C to even consider animals taken here because there may not be any to consider....If there was....I think it it would not fall into the high fence hunt catagory for me. I hate high fence hunting, but this does not seem like a canned hunt. I don't think any of the people that I know who hunted it were even successful.....
 
A few years ago a guy killed a 238 buck, and another killed a 368 bull with his bow! I've been told the archery elk hunt is extremley hard! The elk are very call shy!

If people want to talk about fair chase, what do you guys think about Governers Tags.
 
>Killerbee I don't appreciate you calling
>Nascar88 an f-ing idiot on
>here and I know Founder
>won't either when he sees
>it. People on here
>disagree all the time without
>overt insults and F bombs.
>

"F" can stand for -Frieking, flipping etc.... thus the abreviation,take it for what it's worth, i'll wait patiantly for my private message. i suppose if it isn't supposed to be typed then you broke that rule as well?
read the previous post. i've said over and over again, just cause i dont agree with high fenced hunting doesn't mean i'm claiming to be super hunter . if you dont understand that
your a F lipping -- as well.
apperantly i've stepped on some toes. sounds to me like a few guys look up in their living room and see a bull ,or an unfilled tag, that they think is as acomplished as any other. remember the trophy is in the eye of the beholder. if your happy with it that is all that matters. just dont get mad if the next guy dont see it the same way.
 
>A few years ago a guy
>killed a 238 buck, and
>another killed a 368 bull
>with his bow! I've been
>told the archery elk hunt
>is extremley hard! The elk
>are very call shy!
>
>If people want to talk about
>fair chase, what do you
>guys think about Governers Tags.
>


although i'm not overly excited about them, the animal still can get away. although the way some guys go about it, that chance is small. but the fact is the animal can leave. it's black and white really. B&C can't make an occational exception. that is what makes this topic so simple.
there are some MONSTER bucks/bulls that have been poached over the yrs. some could argue,those animals need the respect they deserve. and i'm sure B&C or P&Y would LOVE to recognize them BUT...... they cant. not killed under fair chase methods.
 
Take it easy Killerbee don't turn into a keyboard warrior. By the looks of you on your post you need to spend more time on the weight pile but thats another story. it sound like you don't know much at all about the exp forest just that you wanted to make your thoughts clear on "canned hunts like texas" or any other hunt with a fence around it. heck we now have a fence on the mexico border, does that make all hunts north of Mexico a canned hunt now. Oh I forgot the anmimals still have a escape route to Canada. Have a good day Killer
 
Is this state that boring that the experimental forest and "TEXAS HIGH FENCE" is all we have to talk about? All the huffing and puffing going on could be contributed to a new thread. Just my .02

Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
 
Yes Oregon is that boring, that's why Oregon is the least important of the 8 states I apply in.

Is hunting usually better on big blocks of private land isn't it? might it be due to limited hunting more than a 3' barb wire fence? to say animals can't get away from a handful of hunters in a 40 square mile area with no hunting zones is stupid, the high fence gives them a better chance of suvival than the 300,000 hunters outside of it thats why they get older. the quailty isn't great, but animals mangage to survive more than a year and a half so as a rule more mature animals are taken.

The term high fence hunt or canned hunt is more suited to smaller private blocks of land with animals raised to be shot. B&C is looking into the TX issue, they realize huge tracks of land are fair chase but it's a tough call as to how you decide the rules. on the bad ones it's not a matter of if you'll kill the buck you've picked out of the brochure it's will it be before or after lunch, hunts like Starkey are nothing like that, they're fair chase .
 
well i will agree to disagree on this matter. like i've said over and over and over again. to each their own. by no means am i saying the animals are tame and the hunt is a gimme. you can go back and read all my replys i've stated this every time. never once calling it a canned hunt. it obvious that i will not convince you or nascar that this is still considered high fence no matter the size. and you also will not convince me it's fair chase and just happens to better than all the areas surounding.
but again, if your o.k. with hunting it than great, that is all that matters. but when you kill your bull/buck on it, if you leave out the fact that it is a surrounded by a high fence then deep inside you also would know it's not the same.

and to nascar88, you make a good point. i guess with there being an 8 foot fence on the mexican border that absolutly makes all of american hunting unethical. in fact hunting anywhere is the same as high fence. yes all continents are borderd by oceans. thus the animals cannot get all the way away from us hunters. i coundn't agree more. it is the EXACT SAME THING, just way diffent.
hopefully your not to big of a fool to notice the sarcasm.
 
49de57cb4f6992b2.jpg
 
Biologist Martin Vavra examines two Rocky Mountain cow elk on the vast Starkey Experimental Forest and Range, which closed Saturday for the winter. Most elk remain wild on the vast research enclosure surrounded by 27 miles of 8-foot fence in northeastern Oregon's Blue Mountains. These were raised by humans almost since birth and are unafraid, but sometimes they can turn aggressive.
LA GRANDE -- Biologists buttoned up the lonesome Starkey Experimental Forest and Range for the winter Saturday, banishing the public from the large fenced wildlife research enclosure until May 1.

Relatively unknown to most Oregonians, the Starkey Project in northeastern Oregon's Blue Mountains encompasses 40 square miles of alpine meadows and pine and fir forests surrounded by an 8-foot fence. It is open to the public from May until November or December.

Field crews plan to spend much of this winter live-trapping and radio-collaring up to 40 Rocky Mountain elk and as many deer inside the fence, one reason the gates have been locked.

"We can't afford to have people driving around when we are trapping," said Martin Vavra, who worries about possible disturbances to captured animals. He is the Starkey Project team leader and supervisory rangeland scientist at the U.S. Forest Service's Forestry and Range Science Laboratory in La Grande.

Field crews expect to feed 450 captive elk and 250 deer inside the fence over the winter. More than 300 tons of hay have been stockpiled against the likelihood of heavy snows. The project ranges from 3,500 to almost 5,000 feet in elevation.

"We have to feed seven days a week. We'll have to feed those elk every single day," said Starkey biologist Brian #####.

The enclosure, 28 miles southwest of La Grande along Oregon 244, is a joint research effort of the U.S. Forest Service and Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife. The fenced area is roughly equivalent in size to half of metropolitan Seattle. It has a $1.1 million annual budget and is staffed by three permanent scientists and a four-person field crew.

Uncertainty now clouds its future, owing to changes in the makeup of Congress, the forthcoming Barack Obama presidency and the sluggish national economy. That's nothing new to project administrators. The project was saved twice over the past decade by public and political pressure after President George W. Bush penciled it out of the federal budget.

The idea for the enclosure came from Jack Ward Thomas, former chief of the U.S. Forest Service and onetime chief research wildlife biologist at the habitat laboratory in La Grande. Thomas launched the Forest Service's shift toward conservation and, after retiring, held down an endowed chair as a Boone and Crockett professor at the University of Montana's School of Forestry in Missoula.




sorry , tried to get the two together. but just a little factual info on the place. nice to see him peting two elk, and i cant imagine having to feed all those mouths 7 days a week for the whole winter.
looks like free range to me.
 
They feed free ranging elk too! You ever seen the feed site by North Powder, you ride in a wagon and feed the elk. What about Jewel on the coast!
 
Well I guess I was wrong, there have been a few good animals taken in there....

I don't really think B&C should consider animals from places places like this for entry in their book....

I also do think that hunting here is fair chase.

I also think that Killerbee will have a hard time on here if this little issue pushes him to call people names who disagree with him.
 
if you re-read the whole thread i think you will plainly see the "idiot" statement was a responce to multiple "if you think you are a super hero......."
also if you could do a search on back issues of eastmans jurnal i believe about 5+/- yrs ago there was an article in it about 3 guys who hunted it a killed 3 really good bulls.
better than average animals have been coming from there every since it opened to hunting. no other reason exept for the fence.IMO
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-09-09 AT 10:12PM (MST)[p]funny how some "call out" name calling or name bashing as long as they dissagree. what about the "hitting the weight room" or the " by the looks of your bull"?
dont get me wrong- i take them both in stride, pretty good ones really + that bull probably is pretty small compered to a trophy room full of high fenced game animals. but if you will at least be consistant?? dont call me out for a name calling {[ when we happen to dissagree]} and pass up the 10 other posts that are the same thing{[ who happen to agree]}. use your head...
 
They kill more big bulls in the Weneha than they do in the pen. In fact more big bulls are probably killed in Sled Springs than in the pen.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-09-09 AT 10:53PM (MST)[p]of course they do in the wenaha- thats why one takes 14 yrs to draw the tag and the other 8.
sled springs-i will find out. i dont think so. but i could be wrong. even if their close, one has 3 times the tags and the other is behind a fence.
 
So are you saying the fence allows them to live longer? that's a bad thing? in the Starkey unit there are so many hunters shooting every fuzzhorn with milk on it's lips I hardly see where getting a chance at a second birthday is bad. I think 25 hunters in 40 square miles is more fair chase than 25 hunters per square mile outside the fence.

It's all about fair chase, I have animals in the book and if I had the chance to hunt the Starkey forest I would and I'd feel they were fair chase as well just not bookable. that's my 2 cents I'm done.
 
Killer, Why don't you spend less time on here typing and more time with your kids if you have any. I think this issue has been tore up enough. I think we know where we all stand on this issue and i can't believe it has went this far from just answering a fellow hunters question. anyway, I think it is time to move it on along. Good luck on your next high fence hunt. Just kiddin settle down. Later
 
Hey check out Killerb entry under general hunting, it just dosen't stop give me a break and let it go. Your running around like a little snitch boy looking for the right answers. It was bad enough all the Oregon boys got their feathers ruffled now you had to go national. LOL
 
nascar, i believe in the othe post i was [ in the general hunting] very strait forward, with just facts and links and many of your own thoughts about it. just curious about what the general population thinks. i even stated that i was going to stay outta that post just to not try and just give my point of view. seems pretty fair to me. if fact so far [only 6 relys] there have been more answer saying they would consider it fair chase than i would have thought.but we'll see where it goes.
 
I think more will say it is a fair chase hunt, but the animal shouldn't be allowed in the books. It isn't like you do this hunt every year. i had tags the first year it opened, they gave out 100 that first year. We went 7 for 7 but nothing real big just average 3 and 4 points at best. Now you need to many points to get in and I'm not willing to not hunt for eight years to pull a tag. i don't know about that though the way the mule deer hunting is going in Oregon I'd might as well build points. Later
 
"better than average animals have been coming from there every since it opened to hunting. no other reason exept for the fence.IMO"

Not other reason? How about the fact that the Starkey is OTC and has one of the highest number per unit of archers than any other? And, that on the inside it's limited to 26 archery tags.

I guess that has no bearing.

I have heard from a lot of hunters that this is a very difficult hunt and that many come home empty handed. The elk will hang in the more open areas making stalking difficult and don't respond to calls. I personally don't believe the fence would affect the hunt one way or another, it's too big. They can easily run away from you and you could not catch them. I would not, however, apply for this hunt due to how difficult I've heard it is. I'm not wasting my points on that. Like someone mentioned earlier, far better and far more bulls are taken from the big three every year.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-10-09 AT 06:13PM (MST)[p]i was talking to a guy today about it. and we were talking about the size 40 sq.miles. SOMEONE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG HERE. i dont know the accual measurment of the unit but would that be the equivalant to 8 miles long by 5 miles wide? or say 10 miles by 4 miles? i do believe thats how it would figure the 40 square miles. like i said feel free to correct that.
but say if it was 8 miles by 5 miles. i cover more ground than that on foot easily on my bivy hunts. and most would have to agree that when we all go hunting on any hunt if we can find animals on the 100+ square miles the other units are surley we could find them in 40.
but it will be intersting to see how the majority feel about it. i do think that alot of "oregonians" are o.k. with it just because it is a state offered hunt through the regular draw system. and dont take a step back to see what in fact it is.

if it wasn't the starky exp. forest, and some guy came on here and said plainly" i went to a high fenced area that was 8 miles by 5 miles and kill the SPIDER bull". we all know that guy would get hammered on this site and any other.i'm sure many of you would be right there in the middle of it. would you agree?

nascar88, i now see why you took so much offence to me calling it a "high fenced" hunt. did you ever post up a picture of your bucks? [i'm assuming bucks by the 3 and 4 points]
 
I hunted this unit in 2005 with my brother-in-law . I am a seasoned archer and I will tell you that it is not a canned hunt. Yes I felt a little weird hunting in an enclosure but the animals there are Wild as they get. I met a couple of guys that were going to hunt outside the fence because the elk were so jumpy. I had a great hunt. My brother-in-law hunted 12 days and ate his tag. The bulls are very vocal until you call to them then they RUN! I hunted a week and killed a 315 bull over a wallow. Am I ashamed to say I hunted the Starkey? No. Would I do it again . Yes. Am I disappointed that I cant enter him in P and Y. No. I have several elk and mule deer that would make it. I don't care! You all need to remember that this high fenced area wasn't created for hunting opportunity. It was to study the interaction between man and elk. I helped with the study and took home a beautiful bull.
By the way Killerbee, NICE set of sheds!
 
> I hunted this
>unit in 2005 with my
>brother-in-law . I am a
>seasoned archer and I will
>tell you that it is
>not a canned hunt. Yes
>I felt a little weird
>hunting in an enclosure but
>the animals there are Wild
>as they get. I met
>a couple of guys that
>were going to hunt outside
>the fence because the elk
>were so jumpy. I had
>a great hunt. My brother-in-law
>hunted 12 days and ate
>his tag. The bulls are
>very vocal until you call
>to them then they RUN!
>I hunted a week and
>killed a 315 bull over
>a wallow. Am I ashamed
>to say I hunted the
>Starkey? No. Would I do
>it again . Yes. Am
>I disappointed that I cant
>enter him in P and
>Y. No. I have several
>elk and mule deer that
>would make it. I don't
>care! You all need
>to remember that this high
>fenced area wasn't created for
>hunting opportunity. It was to
>study the interaction between man
>and elk. I helped with
>the study and took home
>a beautiful bull.
> By the way
>Killerbee, NICE set of sheds!
>

thanks DESERTFLINGER, i'm heading out a 5 a.m in the morning to hopefully find some good sheds from other bulls i've seen in there. but we'll see.
and thanks for your insite to the starky- we all have an opinion and no one needs to get upset when we dont agree IMO.

by the way, founder outta be happy. this thread has broke a record for hottest topic in the oregon section);
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-10-09 AT 09:49PM (MST)[p]one more question- desetflinger and Nascar,or anyone else who have hunted it, in your opinion do you think you could cover the area in 2 days? i guess meaning, if it was the mt. hood national forest an area 40 sq.miles is so thick and big you wouldn't be able to cover it in a week. but if it was in a big burn[ like where i hunted in wyoming this last year] you could cover it with bino and walking in a day or less. so in relation to it's size and terain, what do you think?
 
No you couldn't work it in two days, there is alot of thickets in that area. It is not really a good area for spot and stalk. You have to work the thickets and timber and hope to have time to get on the animal when you jump them. As far as the bucks I have mounted killerb, One is a 27" 5x4 taken about 10 miles from the exp forest and the other is a 26" heavy 3 point taken about 5 miles from the first. Both these where taken in the mid 90's. As far as the buck i took in the exp forest it was nothing special the two from outside the fence are bigger. maybe i will try to figure out how to post pics some day. Sounds like alot of people have problems doing that on this site. Later
 
I've also hunted the Experimental Forest (not ashamed at all) and can attest to it not being a canned hunt. I've hunted with friends who have drawn tags there too, shed hunt, and spent a lot of time there. The terrain is very tough, steep, and nasty in most of the unit. There is no way someone could cover it in two days. In fact, during my archery elk hunt my partner and I spike camped for several days, miles from the nearest road that was open to vehicles. That's right, we SPIKE CAMPED, and for good reason. That fact alone should help those who haven't been there realize the size of the unit. I took a decent bull but nothing spectacular and had the time of my life. I have awesome memories of the hunt, spending time with friends, etc. and in no way feel dissatisfied with the fact that animals aren't P&Y eligible. To each his own though. I know guys who wouldn't consider it but I think most guys on MM after spending some time there would be okay with it.
 
do you know what the dementions are of the unit? it's said 40 sq.miles. but is it 8 miles by 5 miles, 4X10, 6 x 6 1/2??
i dont see it really being big enough to justify a pack-in,bivy style,spike camp. does anyone have a good map of it? i cant seem to get a good one off the website.
 
Congrats on the bull LoveBigRacks!

killerbee, its a very large area, and it is very rugged! Even if they packed in a mile it made there hunt successful! 40 square miles is a lot of land!
 
They change which roads they leave open from year to year to see how the animals react to road traffic. So one year you might be able to drive to where you want to hunt and the next year you might not have a road open within 5-6 miles. Within that 40 sq. miles is their winter feeding area which you can't hunt in. They also have a timber management area they leave closed sometimes. The year we hunted it,the timber management was a walk in area only and this is where we took most our deer. later
 
>Congrats on the bull LoveBigRacks!
>
>killerbee, its a very large area,
>and it is very rugged!
>Even if they packed in
>a mile it made there
>hunt successful! 40 square miles
>is a lot of land!
>
not trying to down on him at all. congrats if he had a fun hunt!
but if you did do a pack in 1 mile that kind of defeats the "it's so rugged and big we had to do a pack in hunt" wouldn't you think. my first assumtion, which is why i asked is it must be kind of square, say 6 miles by 6 1/2 miles, with the interior being roadless, or walk in only like nascar said, thus the reason for the pack in hunt.
i've been on their site alot trying to get as much info as possible. i deffinatly have a better view of it now than when we started this thread. i do think it's a good cause to get knowledge from. i still wouldn't burn my points on it just for the fact it's a high fence. and i dont think i would consider 40 sq.miles ANYWHERE huge. but as i said from the beginning: i'm not saying animals are tame,just from the fence.and to each there own on if we want to hunt it or not. look at it this way, i better your odds by not wanting to apply there.


i have been waiting for my threads in the general forums for 2 website to get over 20 reply's. looks like they are both there. a little later i will post the links to this thread.
 
Talk about beating a dead horse! When does it end? I bet Nvmuley doesn't post on the Oregon thread anytime soon if this is what happens to his threads.


"Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!"
 
I think the horse took a beating then got back up and took another beating and another and another. Killer lets just say the forest is 8x5 miles just to make you happy and we know you wouldn't hunt inside but most wouldn't have a problem with it. We get it. And if a guy wants to make a spike camp so be it, the pack wasn't on your back so what do you care. Just put some gas in your rig and go see the place it is open to the public except during the winter.
 
For a guy with no interest in hunting the Experimental Forest he sure has wasted a lot of time and energy researching it. I would think a guy with no interest would make 1 post or less and move on.
 
Actually, I'm kind of glad that KILLERBEE spent all this time on the topic. He's obviously now much more aware of what the Experimental Forest is intended for, the study benefits it has provided, and what it offers in terms of hunting opportunities. Two weeks ago he probably thought it was a bunch of tame elk in a pen where guys pick the one they want. At least now he has some perspective on it and can speak intelligently about what the Exp. Forest is, even if he doesn't want to hunt there. The more intelligent hunters there are the better....our real enemy is the Anti's / PETA types.

BTW - Our spike camp was probably 1.5 - 2 miles from a road open to vehicles. We rode mtn bikes half that distance and hiked the rest. I enjoy spike camps but it also saved us 2 miles (an hour) hike each morning / evening. It was in no way an extreme back country or high country style bivy camp.

LBR
 
>Actually, I'm kind of glad that
>KILLERBEE spent all this time
>on the topic. He's
>obviously now much more aware
>of what the Experimental Forest
>is intended for, the study
>benefits it has provided, and
>what it offers in terms
>of hunting opportunities. Two
>weeks ago he probably thought
>it was a bunch of
>tame elk in a pen
>where guys pick the one
>they want. At least
>now he has some perspective
>on it and can speak
>intelligently about what the Exp.
>Forest is, even if he
>doesn't want to hunt there.
> The more intelligent hunters
>there are the better....our real
>enemy is the Anti's /
>PETA types.
>
>BTW - Our spike camp was
>probably 1.5 - 2 miles
>from a road open to
>vehicles. We rode mtn
>bikes half that distance and
>hiked the rest. I
>enjoy spike camps but it
>also saved us 2 miles
>(an hour) hike each morning
>/ evening. It was in
>no way an extreme back
>country or high country style
>bivy camp.
>
>LBR
your right,well mostly. i said all along that i never thought they were tame. so i deffinatly didn't think you would judt "pick" the one you want. but it is great to see so much "STUDY" into the elk. we all benifit from it i suppose. some benifit from iside the fence, others benifet from the info gained outside the fence. and also i wasn't "downing" you by asking how far you pack in, if it came off that way it wasn't intended. i have packed in just 2 miles before also. it saves time = more hunting. just asking how far to see how far you COULD be away from roads. just info is all, nothing more.

Also, i forgot to post the links to the other threads the other night, i will get on it.
 
let me know what you think. both topics i tried to stay completly out of [ the muley madness i did have to answer a couple questions,1 was it spike only,2.if i was refering to the animals that had been released,3 if there was any chance they would leave the area if there was no fence.]

over all i think both forum agree [if your not from oregon]that it doesn't matter how big it is, it's still a high fenced hunt. and isn't the "same" thing as hunting regular public ground.BUT ALSO most agreed that it isn't a "CANNED"hunt either.

on a side note- i did here from a guy yesturday that when he hunted it last year the bulls were VERY call shy. they tried everything, nothing would work. it wasn't till they broke out a can of cracked corn and started shaking it that the bulls were coming in on a rope! :) j/k but it was funny wasn't it?
 

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