State of utah deer herd

[tstewy]

Well after scouting and talking to few archarey hunters it seems to be that the North Eastern unit has taken it in the shorts low numbers and hardley and fawns any one else having simmilar experices.

 

[Elkhunter96]

I can attest that the Pahvant unit is the same, very very few deer numbers anywhere on the mountain and hardly any does have fawns with them. I did head further south to do some scouting of new areas and found a little better numbers and some fawns more out in the lower country.

I didn't find very many deer in the uintas when I was there during the summer either.

 

[huntinfanatic]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-30-11 AT 06:54PM (MST)[p] Alot of people will have the deer are all disappearing reports. Obviously the statewide numbers are down from previous years, some units more than others, but I think alot of people are overreacting. Im glad that hunters across the state have been so doom and gloom and freaking out for the last couple of years because thats what it took for the division of wildlife to decide to change its deer management program, which was long overdue. This years deer hunters aren't going to see many areas where the deer are condensed due to the abundant feed and water all across the state, the deer will be very spread out. Bucks, does and fawns will be wherever they want to be, not where they have to be to find water like in drought years. Since the middle of June i have spent close to 40 days so far this year scouting and hunting across 4 different units in southern unit and deer numbers seem OK to me, they just aren't condensed and waiting by the roads for everyone to see them.

 

[JuddCT]

I've been hunting the SE Unit and I've seen very good numbers of bucks (a lot of little guys made it through last year due to the weather on the Rifle Hunt) and even more does/fawns. Most of the does I've seen have two fawns. I think the deer are there, they are just really spread out.

 

[B_BOP_A_LU_LU]

Hey stewy?

When they ct 4,000 Tags in one year,does that tell you anything?

Ya I know!

Too little!

Too Late!



For GAWDS Sakes Guys,We Got Kids on this Site,Some of them are 65 years Old!

I don't care if they're big or small!
If they throw lead I like em all!

 

[soutahhunter]

When there is plenty of water the excuse is the deer could be anywhere, when their is a drought the excuse is the feed has all dried up, when it is hot the excuse is the deer are all high in the timber. I agree they did not cut tags for a reason, because they would love the revenue. The deer herd is down and they know it. Thanks to all the hunters who have come forward and complained and not worried so much if they get a tag, but more important try to save a dying deer herd.

 

[alpinebowman]

The 1,000 bucks they may save with the tag reductions is not going to help the herds, and neither are the 12,000 they want to cut. Far more than the hunters out there for 6 weeks a year causing the decline.

alpinebowman

>>>---shots that are true pass right through--->

 

[LOWCOUNTRY]

Ive seen Mixed results as far as the herd goes. Ive seen some decent bucks on the Dutton, Panguitch, and Boulder Units in So. Utah what im not seeing are doe's and fawns. Very low numbers and the good water crap spread out the deer theory Im not buying. When your not seeing very much sign or none at all pounding the ground theres a problem. Looks extremly poor as far as herd numbers go on those units. That said I have seen one bright spot in So. Utah which is on the Zion Unit a good number of does and most have a fawn or two on them and some nice bucks as well.

 

[justr_86]

I've only been on the mtn 2 times. I've seen ok to nice bucks small bucks and 2 180+. I've seen yearling does, does with twins and even a few sets of triplets. Cutting tags isn't gonna do ##### for the deer herd. I'm glad the focus is on the deer herd because there are other areas to work on to help the deer herd. I'm not saying I'm happy with the herd cause I think it can/should be better but cutting hunters out of it is a bad bad bad thing. Watch and see....

 

[B_BOP_A_LU_LU]

I wanna Hunt with You this year justr!

2 Bucks over 180"+ & 4,000 less TARDS!

We have a Chance justr!

For GAWDS Sakes Guys,We Got Kids on this Site,Some of them are 65 years Old!

I don't care if they're big or small!
If they throw lead I like em all!

 

[justr_86]

lets go bess!

 

[soutahhunter]

Justr

I am glad you say you are concerned about the deer herd, but it sounds like you are more concerned that you get to hunt every year. The best units in the state are those that have cut hunters. I understand we cannot cut every unit to look like the Henry's but looking at each of these smaller units will hopefully help the DWR to control the amount of hunter pressure on each unit. What I don't buy is the other lame excuses, like the feed is getting old and have lost their nuitrients, have you looked at the browse this year with all the water and the new young plants coming forth. The problem is their are not enough deer to eat the browse. I remember watching 100's of deer trail up a mountain side and they were not starving from lack of feed. The feed is still on these same mountainsides, but now you may only see one or two deer trail up the hill. Lets face the fact that their are to many hunters for the amount of deer we currently have and coach the DWR into helping bring back the herd.

 

[justr_86]

There's not too many hunters.... Deer management is not a year by year thing, its a decade by decade thing... Our direction changes every year to the point we are running around in circles on a downward spiral. We have identified most of the issues effecting deer, implement them and give them time to work. We can't even implement them because of too many hands in the pot... We need to pick a direction and stick with it.

If you cut hunters out of the equation you lose support and money and the reason for managing wildlife. I know quite a few people that are just quitting hunting because its a freakin joke to get a tag, if you do get a tag and the subunits are a freaking joke...

 

[LOWCOUNTRY]

Ive looked at both sides of this issue I strongly support the sub-units some places get hammered harder than others but killing bucks really is a small part of our problem when trying to build the herd back up. I have to wonder though in some areas there are doe's with no/few fawns (are they all getting bred?) I believe there is adequate forage out there for what we have but far more needs to be done to improve habitat and create more younger sage and browse growing in areas that are currently choked out with trees. I really think between 3 damn hard winters down south and cars slamming deer all over Hwy's 20, 12, 14, 56, and 89. We are probably lucky to have anything left. Everybody talks about how great the 60's were. Well hundreds of thousands of acres were chained/logged in the late 40's and early 50's, fewer cars traveling at slower speeds, urban sprawl was smaller, and 1080 wiped out the coyotes and anything else that touched for that matter. We need to support more range improvements I.E. chaining , burning, Logging, highway fencing, and knocking out yip dogs especially on winter ranges and fawning areas. STOP SHOOTING THE DOE's! I think then and only then will we see an increase in herd size and then we should get an increase in tags. JMO

 

[justr_86]

Just because a doe doesnt have a fawn following her when YOU see her doesnt mean she doesnt have a fawn. It could be laying down.

Maybe she had one and a coyote killed it or it got hit by a car or some do gooder found this orphan fawn and picked it up and took it home... Theres a million different factors playing in to where the fawn is..

 

[travishunter3006]

THERE ARE NO DEER IN UTAH!!!!

I'm so tired of hearing these same post year after year.

Just because you only hunt the same place year after year, get no more than 5 feet from a road (and that is just to pee), doesn't mean that there aren't any deer or that all the deer are dead.

If you aren't seeing bucks then MOVE AREAS!!!

Did you know that deer migrate to higher and lower elevations during the year???


Did you know that how much snow/ water we get throughout the begining of the year will effect how far up/ down they migrate??

This year in Northern and Southern Utah we haven't found the deer or elk in the same places as we have ALWAYS seen them before.


My buddy shot a great 4 point in a canyon that we have NEVER seen deer in before. We hunted the same places for 3 days with out seeing anything but does with fawns. WE ADAPTED, Changed strategies and LOCATIONS and 150 inches later his buck is at the taxi.


Up north I hit my usual 3 mile rounds and found NOTHING. not even a track and no other sign at all. I changed locations by about 10 miles and was covered in deer and elk. had a great 5 point elk but couldn't get the shot. And some decent bucks came to the water hole, but nothing worth sticking.

ITS NT A MATTER OF THERE NOT BEING BUCKS OR DEER IN YOUR UNIT COUNTY, AREA, OR UTAH!! YOU JUST HAVE TO GO FIND THEM. YOUR OLD WAYS OF HUNTING ARE GOING OUT THE WINDOW AND YOU HAVE TO ADAPT.

*disclaimer: this post is not directed toward any one person.



It was a big bodied 2 point.

 

[justr_86]

Travis I agree. The changes aren't going to do anything for the herd. Just put more rules and resrictions on how you hunt IF you decide its worth the pain to TRY to get a tag.

 

[justr_86]

Oh btw once the tags are cut they won't come back. People will whine and cry to turn it into another trophy unit. Cutting tags and shrinking units won't do anything for the herd....

 

[Muley_73]

I agree that the deer will not always be in the same locations. However no arguing the fact that we have less than half the deer we had 30 years ago. That is just a fact!!!

 

[justr_86]

We also have less hunters... Hmmm wonder wtf?

 

[Packout]

Less than half the hunters now.

 

[Muley_73]

Oh I'm sorry I thought we were talking deer numbers not hunter numbers. My bad!!! But yes we do have half the hunters. Maybe that's why the road hunters are not seeing as many deer? Not enough real hunters out pushing them out into view of the road hunters? Just a theory????

 

[justr_86]

I was just pointing out to go with the lower deer numbers we have lower hunter numbers. Seems like they have nothing to do with eachother to me.. We also have more highways, faster speed limits, more urban sprawl, more predators than ever before, less winter range, more elk. Those are bigger problems than hunter numbers. We need to get fawn recruitment, hunters arent shooting fawns.....

 

[Packout]

No need for the apology, Muley. We can see you missed where others were talking about the tag cuts prior to your post. If we are going to lay out numbers, we should look at the whole picture and not just our own snip-its. Your first post and Justr's reply are both correct. Carry on.....

 

[ridgetops]

It seems like to me that there should be a relationship between hunter numbers and deer or buck numbers. If the total buck numbers are down, then hunter number should be cut to meet the same curve. I would bet that hunter per buck ratio is far worse off now than it was 25 years ago.




There's always next year

 

[Packout]

Ridge, I agree that hunter numbers should be reduced or increased based on herd/buck numbers. I think the point that some make is simply reducing buck hunters does not grow herds (except for the rare occasions where bucks are too low to breed the doe population). All the focus on our herds seems to be placed on the buck hunters, which has not worked over the past 30 years.

 

[nebo12000]

LAST EDITED ON Sep-06-11 AT 04:29PM (MST)[p]Just for your information-- at the last round of RAC meetings the Deer Plan was ammended so that the number of cougar tags within a deer unit will be determined by the "adult survival" rate. So, specificaly in those areas where the DWR has radio collared deer, they will try to determine how much of the of the deer mortality is because of cougar predation and will adjust cougar tags. Season lengths will be established based on total number of harvested cougars or until a certain number of female cougars are killed. The DWR is truly trying to find out if predation is one one of the leading causes of low deer numbers. They also have bought into the idea that perhaps when deer herd numbers are depressed for any reason (i.e. bad winters, fire etc)that predators may be the major factor in keeping any herd number growth supressed. In other words-- the deer herds are not able to out produce the predator kill.
Saw a report on Kennecott property that a male cougar that had been radio collared and then tracked was killing an adult elk (mostly males) every 5 days. They went out and physically checked an area (via GPS cordinates) that the cougar stayed in for 4-5 days which indicated a kill. I believe they tracked him approximately for one year.
It will be interesting to find out if predators are the main cause of deer numbers not being able to rebound once they get to a depressed number. It isn't that cougars are killing more deer than they used to, but maybe it is because they are preying on a deer population that has become so depressed it needs to have additional predator removal done until the deer population can increase and be able to bear the increase predation by cougars.
Back in the 50's and 60's when 1080 poison was being used there were some harsh winters that really knocked the deer numbers down, but then there would be a huge increase in deer numbers over the next few years. There is a good possibility that the increase was possible because the predator numbers were extremely low then. In the past 3 decades since the ban of 1080 we have not seen that big peaks and valleys in deer numbers. Just maybe it is because of predators-- coyotes included, that we don't get the recovery in deer numbers we used to.

 

[soutahhunter]

I agree Nebo, along with hunters being cut, other things need to be done. Sounds like the DWR is at least starting to listen to us and realize that the deer herd is not going to get better leaving it as is. With smaller units, hopefully they can better manage the number of hunters that should be on each unit according to deer population and also get a better handle on other factors keeping the deer herd from rebounding. I am just glad we have finally come to the realization that the deer are not out their somewhere and we are not listening to people who say you just have to get off the road to find them. I think most of us who really love to hunt do get off the main roads and look for these deer herds and they are just not out their, unless they are as cunning as bigfoot and we just can't see them.

 

[Pete]

Correct! My camp has a standing rule, you shoot a doe you are banned from camp for life. Standing rules for a shoot 4 point or better. Stop shooting the does and the breeder bucks.

 

[Zeke]

Here's an idea that might not be totally original but I've been thinking about it for quite awhile.

Is there a chance that some of the does are too old to drop fawns? Is our chance at rapid growth tied to does that are too old? They just take up space and don't allow any herd increase.

I don't have the answers but I suspect this could be some of the cause for sluggish or zero herd improvement.

I have no suggestions on how to improve this condition if it does in fact exist.

Zeke

 

[klbzdad]

>Here's an idea that might not
>be totally original but I've
>been thinking about it for
>quite awhile.
>
>Is there a chance that some
>of the does are too
>old to drop fawns? Is
>our chance at rapid growth
>tied to does that are
>too old? They just take
>up space and don't allow
>any herd increase.
>
>I don't have the answers but
>I suspect this could be
>some of the cause for
>sluggish or zero herd improvement.
>
>
>I have no suggestions on how
>to improve this condition if
>it does in fact exist.
>
>
>Zeke


+100000!!!!!!!!! What does I've seen this year in the Southern Region have twins with them or NONE AT ALL. Pretty clear indicator that our holding capacity for winter range needs some attention especially on units with struggling winter forage.

 

[hossblur]

>Justr
>
>I am glad you say you
>are concerned about the deer
>herd, but it sounds like
>you are more concerned that
>you get to hunt every
>year. The best units
>in the state are those
>that have cut hunters.
>I understand we cannot cut
>every unit to look like
>the Henry's but looking at
>each of these smaller units
>will hopefully help the DWR
>to control the amount of
>hunter pressure on each unit.
> What I don't buy
>is the other lame excuses,
>like the feed is getting
>old and have lost their
>nuitrients, have you looked at
>the browse this year with
>all the water and the
>new young plants coming forth.
> The problem is their
>are not enough deer to
>eat the browse. I
>remember watching 100's of deer
>trail up a mountain side
>and they were not starving
>from lack of feed.
>The feed is still on
>these same mountainsides, but now
>you may only see one
>or two deer trail up
>the hill. Lets face
>the fact that their are
>to many hunters for the
>amount of deer we currently
>have and coach the DWR
>into helping bring back the
>herd.

You know if we all just quit hunting there would be more deer. I have never understood this thought, YEAH, I want to hunt every year, and if the only way to save the deer is for all of us to give it up, then WTF are we saving deer for? Remember, in the last 20 years we lost 190,000 hunters, how is the deer herd doing in those 20 years? A lot of us hunt areas that have not changed in that time. I do, there has been no development, and in fact there is less grazing now than then. I can't help but notice that for a state with no deer, we sure kill a lot of does. Guess the bucks will have to start having fawns huh?




When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!

 

[soutahhunter]

So those who have been out in their hunting areas, does it look like the deer herd is in good shape. The DWR did not cut many tags and are saying that the herds are doing well just wondering what you think so far?